Dream Cancel Forum
Other Fighting Games => Classic King of Fighters => King of Fighters 98/UM/FE => Topic started by: sibarraz on August 24, 2011, 05:37:48 PM
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Well, I promised Desmond to help in the wiki of 98 um, so now I will make some character writeups
I will start with Kyo Kusangi
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
Throws
Hachi Tetsu: ;bk / ;fd+ ;c
Issetsu Seoi Nage: ;bk / ;fd+ ;d
Command Moves
Ge Shiki: Goufu You: ;fd + ;b
Ge Shiki: Naraku Otoshi: (In Air) ;d + ;c
88 Shiki: ;df + ;d
Special Moves
114 Shiki Aragami: ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a
128 Shiki Kono Kizu: 114 Shiki Aragami, ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a/ ;c
127 Shiki Yano Sabi: 114 Shiki Aragami, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c (Or just press any punch button after the 128 move)
125 Shiki Nana Se: 128 Kono Kizu, ;b/ ;d (or after a 127 if this was comboed from a 114)
Ge Shiki Migiri Ugachi: 127 Shiki Yano Sabi, ;a/ ;c
115 Shiki Doku Kami: ;dn ;df ;fd + ;c
401 Shiki Tumi Yomi: 115 Shiki Domu Kami, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c
402 Shiki Batu Yomi: 401 Shiki Tumi Yomi, ;fd + ;a/ ;c
100 Shiki Oniyaki: ;fd ;dn ;df + ;a/ ;c
202 Shiki Kototsuki You: ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b/ ;d
R.E.D. Kick: ;bk ;dn ;db + ;b/ ;d
75 Shiki Kai: ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b/ ;d (You can press them 2 times to start a juggle, buttons are exchangeable)
910 Shiki Nue Tumi: ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c
Ge Shiki Ryuu Iri: ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a/ ;c
Desperation Moves
Ura 108 Shiki Orochinagi: ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a/ ;c
Mu Shiki: (;dn ;df ;fd)x2 + ;a/ ;c
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Notes
You can link a cr.b into a st. c, even though at least for me is hard to follow up with anything sans the oniyaki
Overall, this version of kyo is less more powerful than his og counterpart, but still, he is one really strong character
His f+b command move can be comboed and cancelled from some normals after his second hit. that being said the combo doesn't work against everyoe
Here is a list of characters that you can't combo this move
-Benimaru
-Robert
-Yuri
-The Whole Ikari Team
-Kensou
-Mai
-King
-Choi
- Eiji
Oniyaki has autoguard at the beginning
R.E.D. Could be whiffed if it's missed against some crouching opponents
Combos
dn + b, dn + a, Oniyaki/Mushiki
St. C, f+ b, Orochinagi
There are tons of options after a QCF + K, I opten play secure and just use a orochinagi, but overall, you can still do tons of special moves, including his all arsenal who starts from a QCF + P (You can even combo entirely a qcf +a, hcb+ p, p)
I will let to other kyo players to post more stuff, since I had only played against kyos but never bothered to learn him
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You can combo qcfx2 +A/C, qcbhcf+A, qcf+C rekkas after cB, sC link...
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Kyo's df+D is a really great move because I believe it has really quick start up frames (2 or 3?), so it can punish a lot of moves that have bad or even decent recovery. Also the range is crazy long too. I'll probably put together some moves that can be punished by it.
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I suppose that Dark Chaotix, my problem is that is still hard to me to do some follow ups for the link
More since for a weird reason, the link only results if I press f+c
I will work more on that if weren't that I don't use kyo
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There are shortcuts that you can do that helps
For qcfx2 +C situation you do cB, sC (qcf~b+C), qcf+C
For qcbhcf+A situation you do cB, sC (qcb+C), hcf+A
And for rekkas, just have to do qcf+C when your sC hits
All takes practice and are practical in real match
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I should try to use him one day
I love to see Kyo's Playstyle, but I don't ''get him'' as a character to use
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Kyo's df+D is a really great move because I believe it has really quick start up frames (2 or 3?), so it can punish a lot of moves that have bad or even decent recovery. Also the range is crazy long too. I'll probably put together some moves that can be punished by it.
Prob best avoiding that move all together. Reason being is that it leaves you are -frames even on hit so someone with quick DM start ups like Heavy D, O.Shermie, Kyo etc can punish it. If used in a string such as cB, cA, df+D Heavy D can still punish it with his DM.
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But knowing that, it wouldn't obviously be a good idea to do that move against them when they have DMs stocked right?
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Your first post about the move was about 2 things, quick active punish move and reach and all I noted was that it a fairly risky move considering the benefits it does have. I guess it comes down to your playstyle, if you have the ability to "turn yourself off" from using it and just use it sparingly then sure, it has it uses, but you dont want to use it so much that it becomes apart of your general style. I personally dont use it at all but thats just me...
Plus, only the second hit of the move has the reach so need to initiate it a few frames beforehand.
Anyways, there isnt a right or wrong answer but I was just adding in that there some cons to the move and to me the cons out weight the pros.
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The move seems slightly easy to hit confirm, even though there's the risk that if your opponent is a little too faraway, you will get totally exposed
Imo for that I only use it on the corner
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Anyways, there isnt a right or wrong answer but I was just adding in that there some cons to the move and to me the cons out weight the pros.
Yeah your right. I think that much should be done more sparingly then and I take back that it's 'great' more like so-so. Do you think his F+B overhead is more useful? I believe if spaced correctly it can stop some far messy hyper hops and ppl recovering from whole screen rolls.
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For original KOF'98, what is the best way to do ; ;dn ;b ;a ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;c combo?
I am sitting in training mode right now about to break my stick over this combo. So far, I have been practicing this motion ;dn ;b ;df ;fd ;dn ;a ;df ;fd ;c but I don't think I can hit confirm with that.
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Do you think his F+B overhead is more useful? I believe if spaced correctly it can stop some far messy hyper hops and ppl recovering from whole screen rolls.
F+B is quite good afaik but abit slow. I dont use it personally but if you can correctly guess when they jump in, it will snuff out most jump ins. If they GC rolled behind you on first hit, it can be punished and can be dp'ed if too close on block.
Shouldn't really be guessing a jump in, and more using dp on reaction to snuff them out. I still find sA and far sB efficient enough to keep opponent at bay while not being to vulnerable.
For original KOF'98, what is the best way to do ; ;dn ;b ;a ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;c combo?
I am sitting in training mode right now about to break my stick over this combo. So far, I have been practicing this motion ;dn ;b ;df ;fd ;dn ;a ;df ;fd ;c but I don't think I can hit confirm with that.
Im not too sure what you mean by hit confirm. Are you saying how to do that combo just by itself or a good technique to apply the DM if you see the cA hit?
It is an intermediate combo to begin with, especially while doing it in VS mode in the heat of the moment. The hard part is since its only 2 hits before the DM and those hits have to be linked fairly quickly, you dont really have alot of time to react if it being blocked or not. YOu can do cB, cB, cA then DM if you want to but spacing is iffy depending on the opponent.
You could switch it up by doing cB, sB, DM if that helps and the shortcut is easier to do but it not that much different in terms of timing if trying to hit confirm it. Just have to be aware that if the cB hits, then the rest of the combo shall work.
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For original KOF'98, what is the best way to do ; ;dn ;b ;a ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;c combo?
I am sitting in training mode right now about to break my stick over this combo. So far, I have been practicing this motion ;dn ;b ;df ;fd ;dn ;a ;df ;fd ;c but I don't think I can hit confirm with that.
Oh man, it took me months to get that combo down. It's a highly important combo for him too because its basically almost free damage from a low. I do it like ;dn ;b ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a
The whole super motion is buffered in well but i really have to hit confirm that low B. If I do it like ;dn ;b ;a ;dn ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + A, then sometimes it MAY work but usually a dp comes out.
Anyone here likes to use his hit counters? qcb + A or C?
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;dn ;b ;df ;fd ;dn ;a ;df ;fd ;c
Works for me at least
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This might be a little off topic but how do you deal with Ralf's ;up ;a, that flying kick across the screen and his ;dn ;c?
This one guy in GGPO was trolling me with those 3 moves and I could not do anything about it.
I was using O.Chris/Clark/Iori
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Better use the general topic to discuss this
Maybe in 2 more weeks I will reach the ikaris thread
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hello folks
the kyo wiki is pretty sparse and some of the combos are pretty basic or just plain bad ( Cl C Qcf DD Qcf BB DP C) where as i'd like to contribute myself i cannot be arsed to do the whole type every move name thing plus i've never done anything like that before
There's not really been many changes to kyo, in terms of combos bar what he gains in Qmax, one other interesting change is that his DP hits twice now where as in normal 98 it only hit once, so in normal 98 your best (meterless) BNB in the corner was ( up close C, Qcf+DD, Qcf+A Hcb+A Qcb+A) Where this was not the hardest combo to do, it was easy to mess up or miss damage, in 98UM You can still do this combo but it's been replaced with just as damaging and easier to do (up close C, Qcf+DD, Qcf+A, DP+C)
This gives you the exact same damage but is alot easier to do and harder to mess up
Where kyo gains alot of extra combos is with the new Qmax system, he gains a couple of really easy BNB's that dont use supers but also gains some interesting Qmax combos that use super also.
1) Probably the easiest and most damaging without using a super
Up close C, Qcf+C (Qmax) Up close C , Qcf+C Hcb+C F+C.
(Notes)
this is kyos go to combo for me, it's more damaging say down B A Qqcfx2+p, it does roughly around 38% maybe a tiny bit less, plus you get the bonus of being in max and keeping your super for the period you max bar runs down
It can be a bit trickey to get the timing right for the up close C after qmaxing but after a bit of practice it's pretty easy.
This combo works everywhere and almost everybody with the exception of robert ( i've tested it one almost everybody including all the small characters) for some reason the last part wiffs on robert for some reason!?
Corner BNB's with Qmax
Corner Bnb's with Qmax are really for flash only imo, none of them really do as much damage as the very first max combo i listed some of them are a bit tricky, but here goes anyway
1) Up close C, Qcf+DD, Qcf+A (Qmax) Qcf+A, DP+C, slightly less damaging as his mid screen combo i listed first, does more damage than simply doing his orochinagi super in corner, pretty easy to do has no real timing issues
2) Up close C, Qcf+DD, Qcf+A (qmax) Qcf+A Hcb+A Qcb+A, this is a bastard to do i think it does around the same as his mid screen Qmax combo, the main problem with this combo is that you have to do the last part (Qcb+A) as late as possible, easy to mess up does the same as the above combo, not worth the hassle
3) Up close C, Qcf+DD, Qcf+A (qmax) Qcf+A, standing C, for resets only
Combos with Qmax and supers/ or sdms
1) up close C, Qcf+C (Qmax) up close C, QcfX2+p, does about 45%
2) up close C, Qcf+C (Qmax) Down A, qcfx2+p, very hard to get the down A after the Qmax, i cant really give any advice, i prefer just to go standard Qmax BNB, rather than use the super
3) Up close C , qcf+C (qmax) SDM orochinagi, Heavy damage easy to do after a bit of practice, you must not hold the sdm orochinagi otherwise you wont get full damage, dont work in corner
Combos with corners and Qmax Sdms
1) Up close C, Qcf+DD (Qmax at the moment the last kick hits) SDM orochinagi (must only hit twice) Qcf+A Hcb+A Qcb+A
(notes) This combo used to work in normal 98( obviously without Qmax) but you had to be maxed out, i could never get the SDM orochinagi to hit only twice, but in 98 UM with the aid of Qmax i find this combo is now alot easier to land, when you Qmax the last kick of the QCF+DD it pops them up at the right height for SDM orochinagi to hit twice, landing the rest is easy(ish) if you have trouble getting the QCF+A Hcb+A Qcb+A to land just do Qcf+A, DP+C, does a tiny bit less damage
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the kyo wiki is pretty sparse and some of the combos are pretty basic or just plain bad
Hey bro! I wrote up Kyo's wiki myself, and I'm always down for help (actually, I need it).
Today I just did some editing to his combo section and took away some ones that I felt were really redundant or weren't useful at all.
Reason why I felt to contribute his more basic bnb's is because I feel those are more practical, safe and easy to use in a heated battle.
His more advanced Qmax combos I wanted to add as well, because those have really high damage and aren't too terribly difficult. Plus, anything not using a super and isn't hard to pull off with good damage is good in my book.
If there is anything you would like for me to add to the wiki, (like whatever stuff you posted) just give me the go, and I will add it.
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Seems like this thread is pretty barren but I love this game enough to post anyway. I just wanted to add a few Kyo combos that aren't up in the wiki, but are definitely optimal for the given situation. cl.C, f.B combos on every character after landing a crossup j.d+C (I confirmed this in training mode), mostly due to the back turned state the opponent is put in, and the fact that the j.d+C pulls Kyo in very close to the opponent. After this you can combo into his hcb.B/D for his most damaging midscreen meterless combo which also leads to a hard knockdown, or do an orochinagi. If going for the highest damage possible in this back turned state, you can do cr.Bx2, cr/st.A, final showdown after the j.d+C. This does about 50% in UM, and about 70% in OG 98, and also works on every character. I got the final showdown combo from Dakou, but I haven't seen any Kyo players do cl.C, f.B combos after a crossup j.d+C so I figured this may be helpful. The cl.C, f.B combos also works on some characters starting with a j.B after a back throw, but I'll have to do some testing to find out for sure which characters it does and doesn't work on.
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It's not essential to combo with forward + B. I don't because he has better easier combos. In 98 UM he has even better stuff he can pull off.