Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Duo Lon => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 05:07:46 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/duo.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
;fd / ;bk + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
Genmu Ken - ;fd + ;a (ground or air) *
Genmu Kyaku - ;fd + ;b (ground or air) *
Special Moves
Hike Kyaku Zen - ;qcf + ;b / ;d *
Hike Kyaku Ushiro - ;qcb + ;b / ;d *
Juon Shikon - ;qcb + ;a / ;c *
Suteki Juryu - ;qcf + ;a / ;c (x3) *
Desperation Moves
Genmu Bakko Shikon - ;qcb ;hcf + ;a / ;c
Neomax
Juon Ko Ha - ;hcb x 2 + ;a ;c
Duo Lon's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_(XIII)).
Console changes:
*Hit stun on EX f.A is adjusted. It is possible to combo with a strong attack or qcb.A after EX f.A.
*EX rekka can be cancelled with a special or greater
*fb frames have been adjusted. It is now easier to include the weak version in attacks strings and combos as it is faster.
*f.B can be cancelled by super or greater
Slight damage buffs for his moves from arcade: NeoMax-448 (up from 400), f B-30 (up from 20), qcb P-60 (up from 50), Ex Rekkas (60, 40, 50) {up from (60, 30, 40)}, f AC 40x2 (up from 30x2)
Producer Yamamoto says: f.B, aside from one shot cancels, the following is also possible: f.A>qcb.B>f.B>super ,so a f.A intitiated hit confirm combo. His fb is now easier to leave on the screen so coordinate attacks with it on the screen.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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I know this might sound funny however, I need clarification on this....If I was to do this combo which I found in the wiki [cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], qcb hcf+P....Does it mean cr.B into cr.A or st.C???Or does it mean st.C can be interchanged with cr.A in the combo???Or does it mean I can skip cr.B and cr.A and start the combo from st.C???
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I know this might sound funny however, I need clarification on this....If I was to do this combo which I found in the wiki [cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], qcb hcf+P....Does it mean cr.B into cr.A or st.C???Or does it mean st.C can be interchanged with cr.A in the combo???Or does it mean I can skip cr.B and cr.A and start the combo from st.C???
It means the combo starter is interchangeable with either (cr.B > cr.A) or (st.C). Not sure why the wiki has it listed like that. I can see how you got confused.
EDIT: Removed the ambiguous format and added a "Combo Starter" section to the wiki to make it a bit clearer.
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Thank you very much...This definitely helps alot ^___^
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Has anyone noticed that sometimes after cr.Ax3 xx Rekkas, qcf+B, st.C, you won't cross up after the teleport? Mid-combo it's really hard to adjust. Is there anyway to know when the qcf+B will teleport will cross-up and when it won't based on number of hits/distance before a combo? Or do I just have to wing it?
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Has anyone noticed that sometimes after cr.Ax3 xx Rekkas, qcf+B, st.C, you won't cross up after the teleport? Mid-combo it's really hard to adjust. Is there anyway to know when the qcf+B will teleport will cross-up and when it won't based on number of hits/distance before a combo? Or do I just have to wing it?
I believe it depends on the timing that you cancel the last hit of the rekka with qcf+B. If you do it late, you won't cross up and if you do it at the earliest moment you will.
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Has anyone noticed that sometimes after cr.Ax3 xx Rekkas, qcf+B, st.C, you won't cross up after the teleport? Mid-combo it's really hard to adjust. Is there anyway to know when the qcf+B will teleport will cross-up and when it won't based on number of hits/distance before a combo? Or do I just have to wing it?
I believe it depends on the timing that you cancel the last hit of the rekka with qcf+B. If you do it late, you won't cross up and if you do it at the earliest moment you will.
Thanks for the tip. Now all I have to do is come up with some legitimate setups outside of meaty qcb+A after the reset. :)
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Quick question in this video http://youtu.be/iDrtMwxxXEo (http://youtu.be/iDrtMwxxXEo) at around 20 seconds the Duo Lon player gets a nice mix up where the rekkas look like they crossup. I tried to recreate it in training mode but can't get it. Anyone have any idea on how it's done?
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http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_%28XIII%29)
Hiyo! I can't say I know what I'm talking about because I don't play Duo Lon, but what he probably did was, when the opponent was on the ground, he whiff cancelled his CD. It was probably hard to see because he did it on the exact frame the opponent got up. In the wiki, it states that if they time the CD, you can put Duo Lon behind a grounded opponent. Since you can whiff cancel CD, he just immediately went into his rekka series.
I hope this answered your question!
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Quick question in this video http://youtu.be/iDrtMwxxXEo (http://youtu.be/iDrtMwxxXEo) at around 20 seconds the Duo Lon player gets a nice mix up where the rekkas look like they crossup. I tried to recreate it in training mode but can't get it. Anyone have any idea on how it's done?
Are you talking about s.CD on your opponent that's waking up canceled into Rekkas?
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Thanks for the quick answer it was hard to see the whiff CD into rekkas. I totally forgot to check the wiki though I'll make sure to hit that up more often.
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Duo's an interesting case for me, he's kinda like a Submain or something for me... I have fun playing him like Dhalsim in SFIV, setting up fireballs and running crossover teleports on wakeup, along with the corpse-hopping CD crossup and general annoyance with his command-specials. I'm suprised they kept the CD crossup in, in a way; it's such a solid trick, and I DO think it fits his style of gameplay very well, but it looks so glitchy!
I find myself using Stocks much more with him than drive cancels, but he seems best when using both, so I feel kinda bad for him, ha hah.
Anyone out there use Duo as their anchor, with all his solid console changes? He seems like he has the potential, but I rarely ever SEE that happen.
I felt pretty spot-on with him when I got a OCV VS a solid player with him online today, but otherwise, He's just my Alt "battery" slot between he, Mai, and Hwa....
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Command grabs that will punish Duo Lon after rekka rekka rekka B teleport:
Beni hcb~f+AC
Clark hcf+D, hcbx2+P, hcbx2+AC
Daimon hcb~f+P, hcb~f+AC
Raiden hcf+K, hcf+BD, hcbx2+P, hcbx2+AC
Vice hcb~f+P, hcb~f+AC, hcbx2+K, hcbx2+BD
Command grabs that will punish Duo Lon after rekka rekka rekka D teleport:
Ash hcbx2+BD
Athena hcf+AC
Beni hcb~f+P
Duo hcbx2+AC
Hwa qcf~hcb+A
Kensou qcf~hcb+P
Kyo hcb+BD
Maxima hcb+B
Saiki hcbx2+P
shen hcb~f+AC
Yuri hcb+B
Command grabs that will not punish rekka rekka rekka teleport.
Athena hcf+P
Daimon dp+K, dp+BD
Iori hcf+P, hcf+AC
Liz hcb~f+P, hcb~f+AC
Robert hcf+K, hcf+BD
Saiki hcbx2+AC
Shen hcb~f+P
Takuma hcb+K, hcb+BD
D teleport has more start up so things in the B teleport category will work on D teleports as well.
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i am having some problems trying to punish close hop air normals and poking opponents with really good normals and using his f+b i don't know if i am just placing them in the wrong place and/or at the wrong time also going about jump in punishes what move is best to hop in with. and how would you guys use his projectile
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Duo Lon Stupid Stuff [3DS Record Feature Test] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4-SgO_irpM#ws)
Here ya go. A low quality video which vaguely demonstrates what I am trying to display.
Read the description.
So I now declare Duo's cr.B special cancellable by utilizing that gatling-kara-cancel (New Fighting game term!)
Idk how much use this will be to other Duo players, but I personally will not play Duo unless I master this.
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I don't see why it would make a significant difference when you can do d.B x2, d.A rekkas already, you're talking about less than 1% damage difference and his s.A has (slightly) the most range of his light normals.
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My only reason for utilizing this is that it compliments another odd technique I am attempting to use in play.
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I see. Well if you like whiffing moves, you should utilizing this string as it's more practical for hit confirms: d.B x2, d.A, f.A, qcf +P x3 (first one whiffs).
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Any tips on getting into Duo Lon? He's intrigued me, but a friend said he's quite hard to learn because he's markedly different from most KoF characters. I get that you can follow up QCFP->QCF+B, but have only seen it done once or twice.. People have said there's a mixup game there, could someone explain that to me? Or is that just him in general?
Also, any tips on the timing of his Neomax cancel from EX DM would be greatly appreciated (also, is the direction of the NM input in relation to where you start the DM from, or where he hits on the final hit of it before cancelling?).
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Any tips on getting into Duo Lon? He's intrigued me, but a friend said he's quite hard to learn because he's markedly different from most KoF characters. I get that you can follow up QCFP->QCF+B, but have only seen it done once or twice.. People have said there's a mixup game there, could someone explain that to me? Or is that just him in general?
Honestly, the best place to start is his wiki as I put a lot hyperlinks to corresponding matches. Although all the clips are to the arcade version, it should be 90% relevant. If you have any questions after you finish reading the strategies please don't hesitate to ask.
Also, any tips on the timing of his Neomax cancel from EX DM would be greatly appreciated (also, is the direction of the NM input in relation to where you start the DM from, or where he hits on the final hit of it before cancelling?).
For the Ex DM, you [MC] on the 3rd hit inputting the NeoMax the opposite direction.
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Any tips on getting into Duo Lon? He's intrigued me, but a friend said he's quite hard to learn because he's markedly different from most KoF characters. I get that you can follow up QCFP->QCF+B, but have only seen it done once or twice.. People have said there's a mixup game there, could someone explain that to me? Or is that just him in general?
Honestly, the best place to start is his wiki as I put a lot hyperlinks to corresponding matches. Although all the clips are to the arcade version, it should be 90% relevant. If you have any questions after you finish reading the strategies please don't hesitate to ask.
Also, any tips on the timing of his Neomax cancel from EX DM would be greatly appreciated (also, is the direction of the NM input in relation to where you start the DM from, or where he hits on the final hit of it before cancelling?).
For the Ex DM, you [MC] on the 3rd hit inputting the NeoMax the opposite direction.
Yeah, I read the wiki after and facepalmed a little, as it answered so many of my questions. Thanks on both counts.
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Yeah, I read the wiki after and facepalmed a little, as it answered so many of my questions. Thanks on both counts.
No problem, if you need me to clarify anything I wrote in the wiki just lemme know.
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EDIT: Slight damage buffs for his moves from arcade: NeoMax-448 (up from 400), f B-30 (up from 20), qcb P-60 (up from 50), Ex Rekkas (60, 40, 50) {up from (60, 30, 40)}, f AC 40x2 (up from 30x2).
I'll update the front page.
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Kinda given up on DL. :/ My execution on his Rekkas is still atrocious after playing him for long enough to get a feel for him at entry level, and that pretty much closes off his combos/shenanigans to me, while also making my DL play full of easily punishable holes when I mess them up.
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Does anyone know if c.B, c.B, c.A xx qcf+P, qcf+P, EX qcf+P, qcf+P, qcb+A, c.A, qcf+P, qcf+P, qcf+P, (qcb~hcf+P) OR (qcf+B, s.C xx whatever) works?
The post above got me thinking about difficulty with rekkas. I can do Duo Lon's BnBs and stuff DC'd into f+A+C, but the rekkas into EX rekkas into qcb+A has been impossible for me to link. I keep dropping it at the qcb+A.
Can anyone attest to this being possible? I works so well in my mind...
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Does anyone know if c.B, c.B, c.A xx qcf+P, qcf+P, EX qcf+P, qcf+P, qcb+A, c.A, qcf+P, qcf+P, qcf+P, (qcb~hcf+P) OR (qcf+B, s.C xx whatever) works?
The post above got me thinking about difficulty with rekkas. I can do Duo Lon's BnBs and stuff DC'd into f+A+C, but the rekkas into EX rekkas into qcb+A has been impossible for me to link. I keep dropping it at the qcb+A.
Can anyone attest to this being possible? I works so well in my mind...
It works. Cancel after the 2nd hit of EX rekka into the fireball. There's no real trick to it, just timing. I wouldn't use that combo though. Not really worth it to use the drive cancel from regular rekkas into EX rekkas. I also go straight into rekkas after the fireball instead of adding a normal.
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It works. Cancel after the 2nd hit of EX rekka into the fireball. There's no real trick to it, just timing. I wouldn't use that combo though. Not really worth it to use the drive cancel from regular rekkas into EX rekkas. I also go straight into rekkas after the fireball instead of adding a normal.
I have yet to find one [DC] combo that warrants the drive use. Everything adds less than 100, most closer to only an additional 50 dmg which is pretty pathetic for a drive cancel.
It does look hella stylish I'll give you that.
One last thing that is good about the [DC]'ing into f+AC after Rekkas is that it's a) easy to hit confirm especially if you didn't start with a normal before the rekkas (a lot of times I'll just use rekkas to punish certain moves that are too far away) and b) [DC]'ing into f+AC makes the Ex Rekkas into qcb+A much easier due to the distance.
Consider this:
s.D, f.A, rekkas x2, [DC] f.AC, qcb A, s.C, Ex rekkas x2, qcb A, s.C, rekkas x3, qcf B, s.C - (479 2 stocks, 1 drive)
vs
s.D, f AC, s.D, f A, Ex Rekkas x2, qcb A, s.C, Rekkas x3, qcf B, s.C - (466 2 stocks, 0 drive)
Also I've been practice the Ex Rekkas into qcb A and what I've found so far is the trick is to delay the second hit of the Ex Rekka as long as possible and make sure you cancel the qcb A kinda early (not too early)--it'll allow you to do the s.C afterwards.
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Has anyone figured out some mix-ups off of his st.A / st.D post rekka? All have are incredibly obvious left/rights and the hop j.B, f+B (which only works on standing). st.D xx qcb+A sets up more pressure, but can't be used as tool to open up the opponent in and of itself.
edit: That's a really efficient two bar combo Kane. Does it do similar damage to st.D xx Rekkasx3 -> Ex Super? I'm curious as to what his max damage is for 2 bars no HD.
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Has anyone figured out some mix-ups off of his st.A / st.D post rekka? All have are incredibly obvious left/rights and the hop j.B, f+B (which only works on standing). st.D xx qcb+A sets up more pressure, but can't be used as tool to open up the opponent in and of itself.
Yeah sadly with the hitbox adjusted it doesn't seem like the hop B --> air.f+B thing is nearly as useful in the console version.
edit: That's a really efficient two bar combo Kane. Does it do similar damage to st.D xx Rekkasx3 -> Ex Super? I'm curious as to what his max damage is for 2 bars no HD.
It's similiar damage to:
s.D, f.A, Rekkas x3, qcf B, Ex DM - 447
But the one I posted is pretty stylish.
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Came up with this today, not sure if it's the most damage effecient for what it is but it looks cool and it's one of the few ways I know to juggle into level 1 super:
(corner only)
cl.C Rekkas x3 [DC] EX Rekkas x2 qcb+A Rekkas x3 (2nd hit does not juggle) qcf+b qcbhcf+AC
2 meters 1 drive
Also, on another topic, does Duo Lon have any good way of dealing with Takuma's j.CD? That move just seems to bully any sort of anti air I can throw out there. Having a lot of trouble keeping a good Takuma off of me with Duo.
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Came up with this today, not sure if it's the most damage effecient for what it is but it looks cool and it's one of the few ways I know to juggle into level 1 super:
(corner only)
cl.C Rekkas x3 [DC] EX Rekkas x2 qcb+A Rekkas x3 (2nd hit does not juggle) qcf+b qcbhcf+AC
2 meters 1 drive
The combo you listed uses 3 meters 1 drive. You also listed the super being his AC version which works, but of course that's his level 2 not his level 1. I couldn't get his level 1 to connect without [SC]ing.
Also, on another topic, does Duo Lon have any good way of dealing with Takuma's j.CD? That move just seems to bully any sort of anti air I can throw out there. Having a lot of trouble keeping a good Takuma off of me with Duo.
In general, Duo Lon's weakness is his anti air. Besides from some well spaced jump-back air.f+As/air.f+Bs or some risky d.Bs against some sloppy j.CDs, you just have to rely on some good pre-emptive teleports.
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I'm having real problems trying to do f+B-->hcb,qcf+P/PP!
Is there a shortcut to this or something? I can't figure it out, and this will put my Duo Lon progress to a grinding halt.
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I'm having real problems trying to do f+B-->hcb,qcf+P/PP!
Is there a shortcut to this or something? I can't figure it out, and this will put my Duo Lon progress to a grinding halt.
Should be qcb,hcf+A/AC for the super. Don't worry about this too much. Supercanceling off of the f+B isn't that important in Duo Lon's overall gameplay.
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Came up with this today, not sure if it's the most damage effecient for what it is but it looks cool and it's one of the few ways I know to juggle into level 1 super:
(corner only)
cl.C Rekkas x3 [DC] EX Rekkas x2 qcb+A Rekkas x3 (2nd hit does not juggle) qcf+b qcbhcf+AC
2 meters 1 drive
The combo you listed uses 3 meters 1 drive. You also listed the super being his AC version which works, but of course that's his level 2 not his level 1. I couldn't get his level 1 to connect without [SC]ing.
Also, on another topic, does Duo Lon have any good way of dealing with Takuma's j.CD? That move just seems to bully any sort of anti air I can throw out there. Having a lot of trouble keeping a good Takuma off of me with Duo.
In general, Duo Lon's weakness is his anti air. Besides from some well spaced jump-back air.f+As/air.f+Bs or some risky d.Bs against some sloppy j.CDs, you just have to rely on some good pre-emptive teleports.
My bad on to A+C on the super, been playing too much marvel. Basically you want to hit them with that last hit of the rekka pretty high up and immediately dash, then level 1 super. It definitely works.
As far as preemptive teleporting to beat j.CD, it's practically all this Takuma does. I wish there was something more threatening than a movement option to stop it but I guess I just have to guess and beat him to the punch. If that's the case though, that matchup is terrible.
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My bad on to A+C on the super, been playing too much marvel. Basically you want to hit them with that last hit of the rekka pretty high up and immediately dash, then level 1 super. It definitely works.
Level 1 super is qcb~hcf+P (A/C). Level 2 super is qcb~hcf+AC (or PP if you will).
Anyways, I was unaware that you can do the level 1 super in time, cool.
However the best 2 stock 1 drive combo I'm aware of is this and it works anywhere but timing is tighter midscreen:
s.D, f AC, s.D, f A, Ex Rekkas x2, qcb A, s.D f.A, Rekkas x2, [DC] f.A, Rekkas x3, qcf B, s.C
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I'm having real problems trying to do f+B-->hcb,qcf+P/PP!
Is there a shortcut to this or something? I can't figure it out, and this will put my Duo Lon progress to a grinding halt.
Should be qcb,hcf+A/AC for the super. Don't worry about this too much. Supercanceling off of the f+B isn't that important in Duo Lon's overall gameplay.
Actually, I'm a complete idiot. My apologies. I did the complete wrong notation. (obviously still new with Duo Lon)
I meant to say f+A-->super. THAT's the notation giving me problems, and help with that will be greatly appreciated.
Again, my apologies
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However the best 2 stock 1 drive combo I'm aware of is this and it works anywhere but timing is tighter midscreen:
s.D, f AC, s.D, f A, Ex Rekkas x2, qcb A, s.D f.A, Rekkas x2, [DC] Rekkas x3, qcf B, s.C
How are you drive canceling regular rekkas into regular rekkas in the latter half of the combo? My guess is that those are supposed to be EX rekkas, which would actually make this a 3 stock/1drive combo due to the f+AC. If that's the case, why don't you just do a qcb+A after the EX rekkas again since it's free anyway? That's only if my assumption is correct though.
Also, decent Duo Lon basics tutorial, though I wish he explained more options regarding the rekkas reset. I don't really like the "double teleport > c.A" because the c.A can be blocked standing. His setups never force the opponent to block low, just a whichway (50/50).
KOFXIII - basic Duolon Guide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJs_cegKBI#ws)
I've been wanting to make a video going over the rekkas reset mixups for a while now, but I don't have a working capture setup at the moment. Kane, would you be able to put something together like that?
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I still don't have a capture setup yet, I came close in getting one a couple weeks ago but since then I got wrapped up in moving; I'll look around again.
I fixed my typo in the combo above. I realized I haven't posted some of the combos I've been working on and I'll post it later today since it's pretty relevant. Once again, all his [DC] combos give roughly 50 damage more which isn't worth a drive (maybe a stock).
The only redeeming factor is that [DC] into f AC (easier to followup but less damage) allows ample hit confirm time especially if you're starting the combo with rekkas and not s.D, f A or d.B x2, d.A...
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Has anyone figured out some mix-ups off of his st.A / st.D post rekka? All have are incredibly obvious left/rights and the hop j.B, f+B (which only works on standing). st.D xx qcb+A sets up more pressure, but can't be used as tool to open up the opponent in and of itself.
This has been bothering me with Duo Lon since console release. The console changes removed fuzzy guard so his j.B, f+B post reset hit no longer works, on top of other cross up setups he had. As you said, the mix up options you get now are too obvious, and the others that set up pressure are mediocre. On top of that, as the above tutorial video demonstrated, there are multiple escape options to his mix-ups, which means you have to make good reads to punish the escapes.
I have a few mix up options that are screen specific and require bar and/or drive, which sacrifices damage to create an opening. It's a risk/reward situation and even if I land the subsequent mix up, I don't feel the use of meter/drive was worth it. Overall, it seems like a lot of effort for low damage output, when some other characters can score game over damage from a stray hit that's not hard to setup.
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Has anyone figured out some mix-ups off of his st.A / st.D post rekka? All have are incredibly obvious left/rights and the hop j.B, f+B (which only works on standing). st.D xx qcb+A sets up more pressure, but can't be used as tool to open up the opponent in and of itself.
This has been bothering me with Duo Lon since console release. The console changes removed fuzzy guard so his j.B, f+B post reset hit no longer works, on top of other cross up setups he had. As you said, the mix up options you get now are too obvious, and the others that set up pressure are mediocre. On top of that, as the above tutorial video demonstrated, there are multiple escape options to his mix-ups, which means you have to make good reads to punish the escapes.
I have a few mix up options that are screen specific and require bar and/or drive, which sacrifices damage to create an opening. It's a risk/reward situation and even if I land the subsequent mix up, I don't feel the use of meter/drive was worth it. Overall, it seems like a lot of effort for low damage output, when some other characters can score game over damage from a stray hit that's not hard to setup.
Yes this is indeed something that has been bothering me as well for quite some time 1) the lost of his j.B, air f.B ambiguous hit and 2) his setup to Crossup j.D after qcf x3,[DC] f BD, hyper hop C.
Dune has talked about those pointers several times on his elive interviews and he points out how the "system changes" has severely hindered his gameplay. It's kinda sad, Duo Lon was like Japan's best kept secret for arcade edition and when No.17 came to visit for Evo'11 he was saying how he felt that Tenka and Infinity, both Duo Lon users, were the best in the arcade at that moment.
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UPDATE: Been meaning to post this (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1769.msg44530#msg44530) for some time, I dunno why I never got around doing so.
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I meant to say f+A-->super. THAT's the notation giving me problems, and help with that will be greatly appreciated.
Again, my apologies
There's no trick doing that link, f+A into super, you just complete the motion when you see him get hit by the f+A. It's a lot easier when you're far away and do f+A into Super than when you're close, that's the main reason why it throws off a lot of people because of the variability of the timing of the move and that's of course due to the physical nature of the extending move itself.
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Duo Lon was nerfed to console release? That's unfortunate really. I was thinking j.B j.f+b would be really good for a fuzzy guard, but I noticed it never seems to work. I guess that explains that.
With the lack of really good ambiguous mixups, I find myself focusing on setting up the CD cross up vs just letting it go on the opponent's wake up mostly for mixups. My "neutral game mixup" is a lot of stagger crouching jabs to get counter hits, since they seem pretty plus on block. Once I have them scared into not pressing buttons back at cr.A, I start going for tick throws, and off the throws is probably the easiest way to setup the CD rekka cross up.
For people that like to jump a lot, I'm finding just doing sj.CD works pretty well to beat a lot of jumping attacks. Duo Lon goes so high that he gets above the opponent where they can't hit him. Only problem is that it has to be done preemptively, so you leave yourself open to anti airs if you don't react with it.
But damn, you guys got me wanting to try arcade Duo Lon now lol. I can't believe they'd tone him down.
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Duo Lon was greatly buffed overall, but it was at some cost. Roughly is mixup is less ambiguous but he won a lot of damage output potential and new tools which make him more comfortable with some matchups. The character is more stable, less random, and didn't have any bad matchup as far as we now.
I'm not a Duo Lon expert but it was that said me whose who played him on arcade.
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Ive just gone with foregoing the "reset" normal after a rekka string and letting the opponent hit the ground to set a Left/right mix up using the teleports. It requires a bit of reading, but nice rewards imo.
Havent been able to really test it that well, so Im not sure how safe it may be. It does criss-cross up though, making reversals harder to do.
Examples:
Rekka string, (no delay) qcf+b, opponent rolls,(no delay)qcf+b = you criss-cross them up.
Rekka string, (no delay) qcf+b, opponent rolls, (delay) qcf+b = you look like your gonna cross up again, but dont and wind up in point blank range.
then theres other thing you can do if you delay the first qcf+b, and such. If you dont read it right and they DONT safe fall, then you just fly past them back to half screen. Of course if they dont tech, then you can still mix up from there.
which I had the capacity to make videos. this shit is hard to explain in words.
Most of this is just Lab-work. The people I play with don't really safe roll. lol -_-
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Hi, trying to main Duo Lon seems he's a speedy character. I do have a question on his reset. Usually after his BNB: ;dn ;b ;dn ;b ;dn ;a (;dn ;df ;fd ;a)X3, ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b. Usually he will teleport to opponent's back, but sometimes its in front.
Is it character specific? I recorded this and tried this on kyo with repeated playbacks, it gives the same results. Sometimes it will be in front of the opponent, while most of the time he will teleport behind. Any clue?
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Hi, trying to main Duo Lon seems he's a speedy character. I do have a question on his reset. Usually after his BNB: ;dn ;b ;dn ;b ;dn ;a (;dn ;df ;fd ;a)X3, ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b. Usually he will teleport to opponent's back, but sometimes its in front.
Is it character specific? I recorded this and tried this on kyo with repeated playbacks, it gives the same results. Sometimes it will be in front of the opponent, while most of the time he will teleport behind. Any clue?
Has anyone noticed that sometimes after cr.Ax3 xx Rekkas, qcf+B, st.C, you won't cross up after the teleport? Mid-combo it's really hard to adjust. Is there anyway to know when the qcf+B will teleport will cross-up and when it won't based on number of hits/distance before a combo? Or do I just have to wing it?
I believe it depends on the timing that you cancel the last hit of the rekka with qcf+B. If you do it late, you won't cross up and if you do it at the earliest moment you will.
Also, for teleport, you just have to do QCF, not HCF.
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Correct, as long as you input the qcf B as early as possible on the third hit of the rekkas, he'll teleport behind them.
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I see, so its the timing, will try to experiment more with him. Lol, I have been doing HCF all along.
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Can someone please help with one of duo lons trials where he has to cancel his super from the last hit of his rekka im really struggling with it. ;dn ;df ;fd ;a into ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;a
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There's no tricks there, sorry. Just got to input the Rekka into Super really fast.
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yeah but when do i exactly cancel it though as the last hit or should i be buffering before hand?
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yeah but when do i exactly cancel it though as the last hit or should i be buffering before hand?
Try to buffer it as soon as you get the last Rekka input out.
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yeah but when do i exactly cancel it though as the last hit or should i be buffering before hand?
Try to buffer it as soon as you get the last Rekka input out.
Yeah like ppl have said before, after you input the last rekkas, start buffering the DM motion. Once you see the third rekkas connect just complete the motion and press P.
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Here's some of my Duo Lon. There's a couple of other links in there like losers finals, grand finals should be up soonish, I won that 6-0 lol
Samurai X vs Shiki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Oqc79inEs#ws)
Any tips? Thinking I should start blowing my HD meter even if I don't have enough to super at the end just for extra damage. I've been running him just as a lame out until I get a knock down, then rush down character, and pretty much don't spend meter unless I wanna kill, so I can have some for my next characters, but I'm thinking, might as well spend it. Lot of these matches I could have put away even faster if I did the HD combo.
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I watched your matches but I have to say it's hard to really give much tips when the difference in level of your opponent is pretty apparent (no offense to him).
Overall, you played incredibly passive which is technically fine since I have always felt that DL can play a variety of styles but you can easily have taken control of the match early on. The last match you actually started attacking which looked liked you knew what you were doing.
Don't forget to that f.A combos into f.B into DM...you missed a lot of opportunities. You also missed a lot of pressure opportunities when you did his projectile since it's meant to be used for such and not so much like a regular fireball. Speaking of which, easy on the qcb+P as it's super easy to punish you with a full combo if your opponent was a little more experienced.
Really didn't have much to analyze as you pretty much stayed away from your opponent without really taking advantage of momentum/mixup openings which you had plenty of.
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This match might be a little better. Thanks for the critique though. I normally only use the fireball if my opponent isn't super aggressive. What are some tricks you can do when rushing in with it? I usually just use it to bait a jump and anti air but I'm sure there's some nice stuff with it on offense too I don't know about.
My Duo Lon is incredibly lame though. If I know someone has trouble with zoning I just don't go in at all lol
I'll try to work f+A f+B super in more. That does seem like a pretty easy source of damage I'm missing.
Samurai X vs PacStrife (Losers Finals) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUh9rJaBoVc#ws)
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@ 4:41 of this vid:
KOF XIII Round 104 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WCK7w-JAro#ws)
Duo Lon does a normal, which Kula blocks, then he cancels the normal into his projectile, but as you can see, he does it in the opposite direction. Can someone explain to me how that happened?
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@ 4:41 of this vid:
KOF XIII Round 104 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WCK7w-JAro#ws)
Duo Lon does a normal, which Kula blocks, then he cancels the normal into his projectile, but as you can see, he does it in the opposite direction. Can someone explain to me how that happened?
Simple, he was going for the crossup s.CD trick but he did it too slow, it happens all the time. Basically the game things he successfully made the crossup but he really didn't and afterwards he's pushed back to the correct side.
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how strict would you say the timing is to throw duo lon when he does the D teleport after the last reckka?
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how strict would you say the timing is to throw duo lon when he does the D teleport after the last reckka?
After a D teleport, it's pretty doable, I suggest you double tap as he past by. I do not think you can normal throw them after a B teleport due to the distance of a normal grab.
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Do you guys use Duo Lon's teleports in his neutral game at all? I've been trying to think of ways to push my DL even further but I feel like I'm running out of ideas with him, and this is pretty much the only thing I haven't experimented with.
On another note, I'm finding j.f+A more and more useful in certain matchups. It seems to be a pretty reliable air to air for those characters with the short hops and the long reaching, somewhat downward air normals that are impossible for DL to anti air normally. Examples would be Shen, Hwa, K, etc etc who can be difficult to stop from jumping in from certain distances.
One last thing, I feel like King might be one of Duo Lon's worst matchups. Normally I use a fireball with DL to cover myself and then f+B on the ground to stop fireballs while covered by my own, but against king, her fireball animation just jumps over the foot. That matchup is pretty frustrating against a good King.
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Do you guys use Duo Lon's teleports in his neutral game at all? I've been trying to think of ways to push my DL even further but I feel like I'm running out of ideas with him, and this is pretty much the only thing I haven't experimented with.
On another note, I'm finding j.f+A more and more useful in certain matchups. It seems to be a pretty reliable air to air for those characters with the short hops and the long reaching, somewhat downward air normals that are impossible for DL to anti air normally. Examples would be Shen, Hwa, K, etc etc who can be difficult to stop from jumping in from certain distances.
One last thing, I feel like King might be one of Duo Lon's worst matchups. Normally I use a fireball with DL to cover myself and then f+B on the ground to stop fireballs while covered by my own, but against king, her fireball animation just jumps over the foot. That matchup is pretty frustrating against a good King.
I wouldn't use raw teleport, at least not very often, as it is easily punishable on reaction during recovery. EX teleport is good in blockstrings for ghetto left/right mixup if you know your opponent has slow reflexes.
You are correct. j.f+A is good against opponents who use downward anti-airs, as Duo Lon's jump attacks all pretty much aim downwards. Use it while jumping backwards to give yourself some breathing room. Careful of j.CD's though, as they'll beat you out and score the opponent a counter-hit.
Maybe because I'm both a King and Duo Lon player, I feel like the matchup isn't lopsided at all. It really depends on the tempo of the match. Both have poor reversals, but King at least has EX Trap Shot. This means King has more free reign to pressure Duo Lon, but she's definitely not as good at it as say Kyo. Be patient, block properly and find a way out. If King is attempting to zone you out, this is actually more preferable for Duo Lon. Be patient and inch your way towards mid screen. Because Duo Lon has a slightly higher jump arc than other characters, it's really easy to hop over Venom Strikes. Once you get into the sweet spot, King will be hesitant to throw out Venom Strikes thanks to the fact that your super goes under them. When you finally close the gap, hit-confirm, and post-rekkas you have a better mixup than King. Be mindful of the EX Trap Shot though and bait her into wasting meter. Without the projectile game, King's methods of approach are very risky. Be careful of the crossup j.D, but you can counter it with a properly timed/spaced c.C. Overall, I still feel the matchup is in King's favor since she can switchup playstyle mid-match, but if you're patient and read well, the difference is not by much.
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It feels pretty difficult to stay on her for long once you do get in though. She can just super jump back once she gets an inch of space and throw a fireball and now you have to work to get in again. And with her in close game probably being just as strong, if not stronger than DLs, it just feels like there's not an advantageous position to really fight her from, since DL's anti fireball stuff just doesn't work against her. I'll try the super jump stuff over her fireballs, I get the feeling I might eat an air to air j.CD from her in that situation though.
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It feels pretty difficult to stay on her for long once you do get in though. She can just super jump back once she gets an inch of space and throw a fireball and now you have to work to get in again. And with her in close game probably being just as strong, if not stronger than DLs, it just feels like there's not an advantageous position to really fight her from, since DL's anti fireball stuff just doesn't work against her. I'll try the super jump stuff over her fireballs, I get the feeling I might eat an air to air j.CD from her in that situation though.
it's really easy to hop over Venom Strike
King will be hesitant to throw out Venom Strikes thanks to the fact that your super goes under them
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I was playing around with Duolon today and trying to confirm combos that might be useful for me when he has no meter.
This is a tight link, but I think it's worth trying since dropping it is not going to kill you.
[Corner Only] (Hop D), st.B, f+B, (delay), d.B, d.A, qcfx3+P, qcf+B, st.C
With the hop D, that's 279 damage for no meter. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Actually, if you replace d.B, d.A with st.C, it links for 301 damage for no meter in the corner.
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Good find, although I find the link a little challenging for how much extra damage you get. It's less than 60 but you're adding two more hits, which means everything scales more--not too sure if it's worth the trouble.
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i'm new to duo lon and was wondering what's his best aa?
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i'm new to duo lon and was wondering what's his best aa?
He doesn't have anything too reliable. You can use his d.C preemptively but it's pretty slow but has a decent hitbox. You can also use j.CD early or a vertical jump f+A.
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Good find, although I find the link a little challenging for how much extra damage you get. It's less than 60 but you're adding two more hits, which means everything scales more--not too sure if it's worth the trouble.
I don't mind if it's challenging or not worth it, but it's nice to know what's possible and all with Duolon. Let LPN know how to do it too!
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Think I'm going to start putting some serious time into Duo Lon. Did reasonably well with him against some regulars online yesterday. There's just something about his speed, its so exhilirating.
Looking at his normals I may be able to use him like Ryo to an extent. Really liking his normals overall, save for far sC, such crappy range.
In terms of meter usage I'm thinking of focusing it on EX teleports.
Looks like his regular teleport does have a time where he is completely off the screen, as I was able to get through Ryo's super fireball from half a screen away and get behind him no prob. This is unlike Yang in 3rd Strike who could be hit during his even when he wasn't visible on the screen.
Of the few Duolons I've played, those who spammed rekkas really hit it home for me how they tend to hit like a truck. They seem to have good priority and be a good reversal. The regular one's aren't as fast as I thought they were, tried them against Raiden's tackle on block yesterday and they aren't fast enough to punish. EX version is though.
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Anyone watch BALA's Duo Lon against Mago this weekend at CEO?
I was there and was pretty impressed with some of the stuff he was doing. Think I even saw the CD rekka cross up off an air reset and some pretty crazy corner combos. I had the chance to ask him and he said he thinks Duo Lon should be played offensively moreso than defensively, so I suppose my defensive style with the character is kinda wacky.
Lot of sloppy stuff but overall a really good grand finals here if you guys are bored:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpr1swIoaaA&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpr1swIoaaA&feature=player_embedded#)!
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Started messing around with Duo a bit before evo (but no one is going to believe me!)
Mainly I was wanting to pester solid with an all rekka team:
ex kyo, mature whom I already used + duo.
(I would have created 2 teams if there were enough rekkas to go around ;) )
Mad_KOF's play certainly showed how to cover for his weaknesses though.
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Anyone gonna break down Duolon here or do you think it's too hard based on how much reading MAD_KOF did on B.A.L.A?
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Anyone gonna break down Duolon here or do you think it's too hard based on how much reading MAD_KOF did on B.A.L.A?
I'll post some thoughts after I rewatch top 8. I have a general idea of why he was so effective.
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Using EX teleport to stay out of the corner was certainly helpful which he'd done in numerous matches.
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After watching MAD KOF's Duo Lon play over the weekend there were a few things I noticed:
1) Extremely hard to pin this guy down. I have to watch the replays but from what I remember it was really hard for people to apply any sort of pressure on Mad KOF's Duo Lon. He was just all over the place and took advantage of all the right angles.
2) A lot of rekkas to beat small hops. Duo Lon players knew this already but it seemed like MAD KOF was just throwing out rekkas at certain gaps and it worked out for him.
3) Use of CD whiff cancel into specials for numerous different scenarios.
4) He blew drive and meter at every opportunity. Duo Lon on point is usually considered a battery and the majority of his 1 bar/1 drive combos deals mediocre damage so most people save for 2 meters to do the rekka teleport level 2 combo.
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I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^
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I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^
Takuma, Maxima and Joe (corner) can.
But yeah, he's very efficient. Especially if you open up your opponent as many times as Mad Kof does.
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I dont really know where this misconception that Duolon does low damage comes from, he has great output with 1 bar due to the freecancel to the fireball from ex rekka. I mean he gets what, 418 damage from a cose D wtih 1 bar. I dont know if any character can top that except raiden with a dropkick charged. Sure he might not gain much from spending more then that, but hes usually played as point so it kind of evens out ^^
Well duo gains positioning. But honestly The only time Duo can free cancel into that fireball and get a good combo off of it is if the opponent is in the corner. If you want to burn a bar outside the corner combo into F+A> qcb+lp and it will he the F+A will pull the opponent close to duo so you will be able to pull a normal off the fireball.
also with one bar Iori can do more than Duo can. I'm also pretty sure Kim can. There are quite a few characters who get over 418 with 1 bar. It's not hard especially if we talk corner combos.
Takuma, Maxima and Joe (corner) can.
But yeah, he's very efficient. Especially if you open up your opponent as many times as Mad Kof does.
Mad does most damage by poking, spacing moves properly, and covering himself with fireballs. That way when his opponent gets to him or he attacks the opponent he doesn't have to mix them up too many times because he has been slowly working their life bar the whole time.
i'm new to duo lon and was wondering what's his best aa?
Cr C is an amazing AA. It has a nice amount of speed has a great Vertical hitbox. There are very few things it can't hit also the fact that it is cancelable means you can get on offense off an AA, because you can cancel into either a fireball or a teleport for an ambiguous mix up off the AA. Also If you attempt to AA and you do it too early you can whiff cancel it into a lk teleport. This will teleport you under the opponent and you will be safe (this is match up dependant). For everything you can't AA with Cr c F+A and St A should do you just fine. Another thing is Rekkas Tend to AA a lot of hops. So if you see holes where you can sneak it in, Go ahead and go for it.
Started messing around with Duo a bit before evo (but no one is going to believe me!)
Mainly I was wanting to pester solid with an all rekka team:
ex kyo, mature whom I already used + duo.
Bio You look really guilty when you start explaining yourself before anyone accuses you of anything.lol
THIS IS WHAT I WAS FEARING! THE EVO HYPE TRAIN!
Anyone gonna break down Duolon here or do you think it's too hard based on how much reading MAD_KOF did on B.A.L.A?
I can easily do a write up for Duo. I've played him since day one so I know the ins and outs of this guy!
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So I know I don't have the "fast fingers" required to play an effective Duo Lon... However, I would like to contribute to the thread after being blown away by MadKOF's Duo Lon...
Here are some Duo stuff I've trying out to see maximum potential for his damage... Mainly HD combos... Also some corner specific combos...
4 meters HD - j.D, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x5, EX DM, Neomax = 873 dmg
Corner Specific - (Also possible mid-screen but does less damage and done a little differently)
1 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, s.C = 441 dmg
2 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, s.C = 532 dmg
3 meters - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, EX DM = 616 dmg
3 meters HD - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x6, (qcf+C)x3, qcf+B, EX DM= 792 dmg
5 meters HD - j.D, s.C, f+A, qcf+AC, qcf+C, qcb+A, s.C, HD, s.C, f+A, (qcf+C, qcf+C, DC, f+A)x5, EX DM, Neomax = 976 dmg
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Well duo gains positioning. But honestly The only time Duo can free cancel into that fireball and get a good combo off of it is if the opponent is in the corner. If you want to burn a bar outside the corner combo into F+A> qcb+lp and it will he the F+A will pull the opponent close to duo so you will be able to pull a normal off the fireball.
IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
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Thanks teh mAsTarOth...! for posting those combos, most of them are on the wiki already minus your jump damages though. UPDATED on wiki.
As for Ex Rekkas, you can technically get a full s.D, f A after the qcb A, midscreen, but timing is very strict and s.C/D or d.A is much easier.
As for his low damage argument, is DMs still are lower than average by 10%, 200 for DM and 300 for his Ex DM)--in comparison, Takuma and Mr Karate's Ex DM are 360; Maxima and Goro's Ex DM are 340. His Ex moves like his air.f+BD and air.f+AC are 60 and 80 damage respectively and the air.f+AC is arguably useless and the the air.f+BD isn't much better either.
With a cancelable f.B, his f BD isn't nearly as good as it was before making the f.BD truly useful only when: 1) outside the 80% full screen (so you can do f BD --> DM) or 2) near DL like 2 characters away so you can do f BD (hits towards you), qcb A, DM. Anywhere in between those ranges you can just do f B into DM since his DM has projectile invincibility anyways. There's also a higher hit box for his f BD so you can use it as an anti air but we're not going to get into that.
Bottom line, is his damage output has been improved dramatically from v1.1 but he's still overall lower in damage that most of the cast.
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I wouldn't say air f+AC is useless... You can air-air someone with j.C+D and on regular hit do fA+C afterwards... Then do a run under mix-up on them... If you guess right then you end up with about 400 dmg for 1 bar...
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I wouldn't say air f+AC is useless... You can air-air someone with j.C+D and on regular hit do fA+C afterwards... Then do a run under mix-up on them... If you guess right then you end up with about 400 dmg for 1 bar...
The run under is not very ambiguous at all and entirely reactable. We've been trying to find a use for it since v1.1 and I have not seen it in any other videos. I myself, still blow meter in that exact same manner but I know it's more just showy that actually useful.
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IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.
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This ain't much but it's a decent setup i found messing around in training. After landing an EX f.B on the ground you can do a hyper hop C, then start running as soon as you land. This creates an ambiguous cross-under mix up without having to do jump CD and blow another bar on EX f.A. On top of not spending extra meter, this setup seems a lot harder to react to. Honestly sometimes I don't even know which side I'm going to end up on. As far as spacing goes, the best distance for this setup to work seems to be at the max range of a ground f.A. , or about half screen away from your opponent. I plan on testing this at the next casuals I go to but so far it seems promising.
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IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.
You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure. There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc.
Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C. Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
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IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.
You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure. There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc.
Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C. Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
Ok I found out what it is. You can delay it at certain ranges. Up close You can't very the timing say after cr a> cr a> ex rekka you can't delay it but say after C>F+AC you can delay it.
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IIRC EX rekka into fireball, st.D works midscreen if you delay the second rekka a bit ^^. You can also substitute the st.D for a cr.lp and still get decent damage without drive.
1st: You can't delay ex rekkas. Ex rekkas will immediately stop you have to rapid fire cancel them one after another.
2nd: You can get the ST.D BUT You will miss your first rekka and have to input the second fast while they are still is St.D's hitstun meaning you won't get max damage out of the combo. If you combo into F+AC You will be able to tack on another F+A After St.D meaning more damage.
3rd: Comboing into EX rekka>qcb+A> St.D Is very very range specific, if you are even slightly out of position you can't link off of the fireball, because they will be pushed out too far away from st d range. Same can be said about comboing directly into F+AC with no drive meter. However, if you do Rekka 2x>F+AC> fireball You can max out the damage and be guaranteed that combo every time.
You can delay canceling into the second Ex Rekkas for sure. There's actually a lot variability to timing of the Ex Rekkas itself, canceling into the qcb A early, canceling the 2nd Ex Rekkas as fast as possible etc.
Midscreen, you can definitely do: s.D, f.A, qcf AC, qcf P, qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C. Does 398 if I remember correctly, you just have to delay the second rekkas as late as possible and make sure you don't cancel the qcb A immediately but not too late either.
Ok I found out what it is. You can delay it at certain ranges. Up close You can't very the timing say after cr a> cr a> ex rekka you can't delay it but say after C>F+AC you can delay it.
I'm pretty sure you can still delay it after two d.As but I'll test it tomorrow.
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Go for it.lol maybe you can get but I can't.
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Go for it.lol maybe you can get but I can't.
Confirmed. Midscreen: d.A x3, Ex qcf P, (delay) qcf P, (not immediately but not too delayed) qcb A, s.C, qcf P x3, qcf B, s.C - 341
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So, it is a matter of spacing whether you can or cannot delay the Ex rekka. Also how deep the Ex rekka connects also determines the length of time you have to delay it. That should be included in the wiki
I knew I wasn't going crazy! lol
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So, it is a matter of spacing whether you can or cannot delay the Ex rekka. Also how deep the Ex rekka connects also determines the length of time you have to delay it. That should be included in the wiki
I knew I wasn't going crazy! lol
I'm not sure we're understanding each other.
You can always delay the 2nd Ex Rekkas and it's not determined on spacing. The point of me doing three d As was to prove that you can be relatively far and still get the full combo. Naturally if you're SUPER far you're not going to get the combo to connect but seeing you can do it off three d As, or s.D, f.A (the most common starters)...it pretty much works anywhere.
BTW, my timing for the Ex Rekka combo is the same anywhere.
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So, it is a matter of spacing whether you can or cannot delay the Ex rekka. Also how deep the Ex rekka connects also determines the length of time you have to delay it. That should be included in the wiki
I knew I wasn't going crazy! lol
I'm not sure we're understanding each other.
You can always delay the 2nd Ex Rekkas and it's not determined on spacing. The point of me doing three d As was to prove that you can be relatively far and still get the full combo. Naturally if you're SUPER far you're not going to get the combo to connect but seeing you can do it off three d As, or s.D, f.A (the most common starters)...it pretty much works anywhere.
BTW, my timing for the Ex Rekka combo is the same anywhere.
You are aware that Cra.A 3x puts you at the exact same spacing as Close stc> F+A Right? So you're doing the same combo from the same spot twice (Spacing roughly varies depending on how fast you input the Cr.a but it's still roughly the same distance no matter how fast you input it)
How about you do this? Do a raw EX rekka on a corner opponent directly in your opponent's face, Then Do a close ST c> F+a. Your goal is to see how late you can delay each of the second rekkas and see if C> F+A doesn't grant you more delay time.
I've been able to drastically change my rhythm for C>F+a but if I do cr.a 2x or raw ex rekka the delay window seems to shrink I am a very rhythm oriented person so I know the rate at which I'm tapping the buttons and I'm very aware of when it changes.
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Idk if anyone is aware of this but i haven't seen any discussion about it.
after f+b you can link cr b or cr a after which is actually really good in the corner for damage and pressure.
also after f+b you can link into ex rekka immediatly after and have it combo which can add up to some nice damage in the corner since you can freely cancel into qcb+a.
just some new things i found
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Idk if anyone is aware of this but i haven't seen any discussion about it.
after f+b you can link cr b or cr a after which is actually really good in the corner for damage and pressure.
also after f+b you can link into ex rekka immediatly after and have it combo which can add up to some nice damage in the corner since you can freely cancel into qcb+a.
just some new things i found
From page 5 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1650.msg51099#msg51099).
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Kane i must be missing it but I'll take your word for it.
either way i wanted to post it because it's an easy combo of lights into a nice high damage combo in the corner.
crb> cra>f+b> qcf+ac 2x>qcb+a>st c> f+a> rekka 3x xx qcf+b xx> st c= 358 0drive with 1 bar
j.d> St.c> f.b>qcf+ac 2x> qcb+a>st c> f+a> qcf+p 3x xx qcf+b xx> st. c= 441 no drive 1 bar
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Kane i must be missing it but I'll take your word for it.
either way i wanted to post it because it's an easy combo of lights into a nice high damage combo in the corner.
crb> cra>f+b> qcf+ac 2x>qcb+a>st c> f+a> rekka 3x xx qcf+b xx> st c= 358 0drive with 1 bar
j.d> St.c> f.b>qcf+ac 2x> qcb+a>st c> f+a> qcf+p 3x xx qcf+b xx> st. c= 441 no drive 1 bar
Those combos are better off as blockstrings seeing that you can use f.A instead of f.B and do slightly more damage plus it's a normal cancel vs a link. Yes, f.B --> d.A does more damage than f.A alone, but you're talking about approximately 15 damage more, and now the rest of your combo is more scaled.
Light hits into f.B is a pretty good frametrap though.
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Actually they are good for both meterless combos and frame traps. but if say you push the f+b you can cra>f+a then you can go from there.
also cra>std>f+b>ex rekka hits but cra>st c>f+b> rekka doesnt
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Actually they are good for both meterless combos and frame traps. but if say you push the f+b you can cra>f+a then you can go from there.
I remember awhile back when I messing with f.B links you had to be pretty close for the d.A to connect after the f.B...and remember thinking it was only if you did a light hit into f.B--I could be wrong.
also cra>std>f+b>ex rekka hits but cra>st c>f+b> rekka doesnt
That's coz s.D has less pushback than s.C.
In you your listed combo above, if you replaced f.B with f.A it'll still do more damage. The only way to really make it worth it is to be able to add a s.C after the f.B for the scaling to make sense imo.
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Added this to the wiki notes section: Performing the f A, f.B, DM cancels might be a little tricky at first, so you can use the: f A, qcb B, hcf B~P shortcut instead.
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Added this to the wiki notes section: Performing the f A, f.B, DM cancels might be a little tricky at first, so you can use the: f A, qcb B, hcf B~P shortcut instead.
That is very helpful. I've always had trouble with that DM cancel and had no idea there was a shortcut. Thanks for posting that Kane.
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Added this to the wiki notes section: Performing the f A, f.B, DM cancels might be a little tricky at first, so you can use the: f A, qcb B, hcf B~P shortcut instead.
That is very helpful. I've always had trouble with that DM cancel and had no idea there was a shortcut. Thanks for posting that Kane.
No problem, I discovered the shortcut months back but forgot to post it.
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Got some Duo Lon tech.
In the corner: ;fd ;b links into most normals and some specials. The properties for this move change when drive canceled (rekka into ;fd ;b) where it starts up faster but has longer recovery time and so you can't link from there anymore.
I've found that there is such a way to do it by instead of raw ;fd ;b after the rekka, you instead do ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b or ;d into ;fd ;b
This will allow for more damaging combos and cost efficient 1 drive non stock combos.
Duolon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lnOhkmh2iQ#)
Anybody care to add it to wiki in case it's not there?
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^ Great find Saiki_TJ_MX, I added to the wiki (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_(XIII)#f_b_special_properties) and of course have you the credit.
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Just wanted that ;fd ;b link so bad you know xD
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I don't know if this is something that has been tested, but I wonder what kind of uses can you get from a backstep f+A or f+AC; since they can be done in the air and a backstep leaves you in an airborne state, this should be doable. Would it be a good anti-crossup? Are there any interesting setups available after doing this? I'd appreciate it if someone tested this out for me.
(I also wondered what can be done with a backstep f+B or f+BD, but by the nature of the move, I can surmise that it is useless.)
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Just tried that out for a while. I couldn't get f+A/AC or f+b/BD to work during a backstep regardless of how I timed the input. It might not be possible.
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Oh really? That's a shame. One has to wonder why he's not able to do this....
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Got a question guys.
If Duo Lon uses his CD cross up after a hard knock down can he ex teleport to avoid a reversal? and if he can why isnt it used? he can get a full punish from it.
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I can be done and it works. The reason why I don't do it as often is because I have to commit to the EX move and spend the bar, now, if you're going to spend the bar on an EX, you're better off using it in a situation where you yourself are not forced to use it. Say against Kim, I do use it against him because he can option select which side I'm going to end up hitting him with his EX flash kick, this way, since they've already commited to the flash kick since the dawn of time, you can risk a whiff CD into the EX because it's likely you'll get rewarded, otherwise if they don't feel secure about a reversal, they'll just block one way and you'd have spent a stock plus given them a vantage point.
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Thanks Sir Octopus. That's a good reasoning, because I was wondering, Duo Lon players could do that and get a full punish. The thing is I dont see the CD cross up whiff used anymore I think because it's not useful as the projectile meaty or it can be countered easily.
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Well, the way I usually do it is as follows; Do CD as soon as possible as to get the hit at the last possible couple of frames, you they try to reversal you with a special move, say, EX Iori, if he does a reverse DP, only the first hit will hit you and you will end up standing on the correct side, allowing for a full punish, and, if you get a counter hit, you can do a DM and get back in the same exact situation, allowing for a semi vortex situation.
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That's cool Sir Octopus.
Thanks, much appreciated.
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Hi Duo Lon players. Im just curious if Duo Lon really as meter intensive as ive heard......basically, can I play a team of Duo Lon / Leona ? The main reason im asking is because Leona loves her meter......but from what ive seen / heard, Duo Lon is kinda a meter hog too. I kinda want to run a team of Duo Lon / (Terry / Kyo) / Leona, but I dont know if there will be enough meter to go around. If there wont be enough meter for Leona, then ill just make a second team.....Leona is my girl and is my true main, so shes non negotiable.
Opinions?
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Hi Duo Lon players. Im just curious if Duo Lon really as meter intensive as ive heard......basically, can I play a team of Duo Lon / Leona ? The main reason im asking is because Leona loves her meter......but from what ive seen / heard, Duo Lon is kinda a meter hog too. I kinda want to run a team of Duo Lon / (Terry / Kyo) / Leona, but I dont know if there will be enough meter to go around. If there wont be enough meter for Leona, then ill just make a second team.....Leona is my girl and is my true main, so shes non negotiable.
Opinions?
His mix ups and damage get significantly better with meter, also his only invincible options come with meter. So ,to answer your question yes he is meter reliant but he can also sustain the meter he uses if played properly.
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Fucking wow
KOF XIII DUO LON TRIBUTE Stun Combo+ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KpIAsxf8lk#)
please front page this!
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KoF XIII : Duo Lon combo details by OTIKA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bjHG4jVhgo#ws)
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Shifting to the other side in the middle of the combo? I've never seen that before!
Duolon KOF XIII CMV MINI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0qI-DmCpc#ws)
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For people having trouble understanding the Kyo matchup
KOF XIII - Match up tips EP01: Duo lon against Kyo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6caC1o-VpOk#ws)
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KoF XIII : Combo Compilation by OTIKA (10) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v2jy8WvfOo#)
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Just a really funny thing that's completely impractical. If you're trolling hard do a point blank qcb+AC. If it hits you can get 3 cl.C into a rekka. I didn't think to try cl.D.