Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => K' => Topic started by: nilcam on December 06, 2011, 06:43:38 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/kdash_01.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
;fd / ;bk + ;c / ;d
Command Normals
One Inch Punch - ;fd + ;a
Special Moves
Eins Trigger - ;qcf + ;a / ;c *
∟ Second Shoot - ;fd + ;b
∟ Second Shell - ;fd + ;d
∟ Blackout - ;dn \ ;bk + ;b / ;d
Blackout - ;qcf + ;b / ;d *
Minute Spike - ;qcb + ;b / ;d (ground or air) *
∟ Narrow Spike (ground variant only) - ;qcb + ;b / ;d
Crow Bites - ;dp + ;a / ;c *
∟ Crow Bites Plus (C version only) - ;fd + ;d
Desperation Moves
Heat Drive - ;qcf x 2 + ;a / ;c
Chain Drive - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a / ;c *
Neomax
Hyper Chain Drive - ;hcb x 2 + ;a ;c
K's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=K%27_(XIII)).
Console changes:
*EX Ein trigger > 2nd shoot properties have been changed. The projectile hits twice and gradually increases in speed.
-Hit box and attack frames have been altered on j.B and j.D
*Air minute spike anywhere juggles
*Recovery improved on minute spike
-Recovery lengthened on Ein trigger – includes 2nd shoot/2nd shell
-Recovery lengthened for narrow spike when blocked
-Weak crow bites has less invincibility. Note that it is only upper body invincible.
-Minute spike properties changed (includes air). Move initiates at a consistent speed regardless of distance to the opponent.
*EX chain drive has special hit properties.
Producer Yamamoto says: Although there are several nerfs, it is possible to score extra damage using air minute spike and the special hit properties on chain drive which was not possible in the arcade. You’ll be able to make up for the nerfs by jumping on chances to aggressively score additional damage. Worthy of special mention – EX 2nd shoot has been changed. It was often used to zone, but can now be used to gain the initiative from long distance.
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Reserved
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Reserved
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He is still boss:
KOF XIII K' simple console idea combo video... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1dlB8YS28#)
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Well all the everywhere juggles help his cause.
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I just saw that and I really, really like it!
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I dont use the guy but I believe you guys will be happy with this...
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16361070 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16361070)
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Trying combo the air minutes spike after the heat drive with no luck if anyone has any tips on how to combo it please post up.
Thanks
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Do the heat drive while they're juggled in the air then you do minute spike? I have to try this later
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To Atb_555 and DJMirror949, when you hit with the heat drive it has to be when they are in the air meaning qcf+A, f+D, qcfx2+P or dp+A(2hit), DC qcfx2+P
Next it has to be at the lowest point possible. The easiest and most consistent way to do this is qcb+B during back dash. I'm able to do it many times but not consistently.
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To Atb_555 and DJMirror949, when you hit with the heat drive it has to be when they are in the air meaning qcf+A, f+D, qcfx2+P or dp+A(2hit), DC qcfx2+P
Next it has to be at the lowest point possible. The easiest and most consistent way to do this is qcb+B during back dash. I'm able to do it many times but not consistently.
Ash is correct. I wasnt able to do it until last night when I was playing around with it. You have to buffer the backdash so the first part ;bk is done when the opponent hits the ground, then the second ;bk is done when you have recovered from DM/SDM. As you input the second ;bk you do qcb+K. It's just a timing thing and like Ash, I cant do consistantly yet, but I feel that the link from SDM is easier than the DM.
Practice by do regular qcfx2 A DM into iAqcb+B.
I also thought it was only on bigs, but it works on iori so Id assume it would work on everyone. More testing is needed for that.
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Nice, I was testing out backdash qcb + B and I swear I was getting the same effect when I did:
;dn ;db ;bk ~ ;bk + ;b
~ = quick input
EDIT: sorry other way round
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how do you use j./h. CD with K' effectively? ie. how do you space it properly?
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It's pretty gdlk as a poke, tons of diagonal range. You can use it defensively jumping back to get someone off you, you can use it to trade with air-to-air (if you're higher) or against anti-airs to get the knockdown. Basically a far jump-in, it has a similar range to jD but more down-reaching. It also has tons of blockstun for pressure, and if you confirm it on hit it combos into EX minute spike for a full juggle.
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I dont use K' at all but...
with his air minute spike being an anywhere juggle does that mean K in the corner wont be doing dp dc minute spike x n?(outside of HD ofc)
I saw some player just doing st.a >minute spike > st.a> minute spike etc~
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Normal air Minutes Spike is really hard to combo off of by itself, EX is much easier. ;fd ;dn ;df ;a -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k will probably still be the standard wall carry HD loop. Once you get to the corner you can do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a -> ;dn ;df ;fd ;c -> ;fd ;d , ;fd ;a -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k loops, which are slightly more damaging. The cancel from ;a Crow Bites to ;c Trigger is also much easier to do in HD mode.
Going from that last sentence, I was experimenting with shortcuts for DP moves and found out some interesting info. I've been struggling with trying to master ;a Crow Bites Drive Cancel to ;c Trigger, since being able to do it consistently grants a big increase in K's corner damage. I tried out the ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a shortcut a few times, but I found that while I could do it consistently outside of a combo, I have a tendency to "ride" the gate of my stick when trying to perform it quickly during a combo, so it was coming out as ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;a instead, which would result in a Super Cancel to Heat Drive when I would try to go for ;c Trigger. I had then switched to doing it as ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;fd ;c , because while that technique requires much stricter timing, I found I preferred it since I would avoid accidentally cancelling to a DM.
Then I saw the video on Nico Nico Douga where a player was going through K's entire movelist and struggling with the trials where you have to cancel ;a Crow Bites to Trigger. In one of the scrolling comments, someone listed the input for the Crow Bites as 626A, or ;fd ;dn ;fd ;a . I went to try it and found out that it works!. This got me interested in messing around to see how else you could input a DP motion, and the results I found were pretty interesting.
In order for the game's command interpreter to register a DP motion:
1. The first input MUST be ;fd
2. The second input can be either ;dn or ;db
3. The third input can be either ;df or ;fd
This makes the total recognizable DP motions as ;fd ;dn ;df , ;fd ;dn ;fd, ;fd ;db ;df and ;fd ;db ;fd .
This also explains why ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd works, as the game reads it as the ;fd ;db ;fd input.
With this information, I was finally able to consistently perform this particular Drive Cancel easily in a combo. I even make it a little easier on myself by HOLDING ;fd right before I want to do ;a Crow Bites, then finishing the motion with ;db ;fd ;a (basically like doing Zaneiken with Andy).
Just wanted to share this info. It should help make these DP cancels a lot easier for everyone.
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So you're saying if you do ;fd ;db ;fd and then do qcf+C, it'll drive cancel?
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So you're saying if you do ;fd ;db ;fd and then do qcf+C, it'll drive cancel?
I would assume so.
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Yup, you can do ;fd ;db ;fd ;a -> ;dn ;df ;fd ;c to Drive Cancel. The key is to avoid the ;df in ;fd ;dn ;df so you don't get a Super Cancel to Heat Drive. I just thought I would share that info since it would give people an idea of how many different ways you can shortcut a DP motion and that way they could find the method that works best for them.
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Good shit bro I'll definitely try this out next time
;)
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This means I'll have to practice using Takuma more since you technically have to do the same thing with his db, f+D move. In any case, I'd like to approach a different vein of thought. Cancelling st.C, f+A into Narrow Spike (qcb x2 D). I've got it off once, but it's pretty tough stuff.
EDIT:
Tried it out and put my inputs on. I do the df input a lot. It's going to be a pain not to do that, but this is indeed a lot easier than riding the gates to a hcbf+P move.
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Initially I was not very excited about ;fd ;dn ;fd ;a being possible, because I figured I'd just mess up and do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a instead, but when I sat down and experimented to find what else worked, it paid off.
If you still have problems, you can still do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;fd ;c and just learn the timing needed. If your reaction time is good, you can do that and if the Drive Cancel doesn't happen, you have just enough time to DC the second hit of Crow Bites into ;dn ;df ;fd ;b . That will allow you to juggle afterwards with ;fd ;dn ;df ;c . It takes less damage, but it's a way of salvaging the combo and still getting some extra damage, along with the crazy corner carry and hard knockdown that ;c Crow Bites gives you.
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my apologizes for the noob question, but would someone be able to explain the timing of K's trial 4 to me? I cant seem to figure out the timing of the hd cancel from the light uppercut to the ex narrow spike.
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Mh, that's a bit hard. I remember having a lot of trouble doing that when I started. The best thing I'd tell you is to try to do a hcb after you do the dp+A motion. That's how I usually do it. You can do it one fluid motion. Just remember to press the button appropriately.
For example, you do dp like ;fd ;dn ;df + A and then immediately do from ;df , ;dn ;db ;bk and it'll work.
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what Reiki said should work for you i honestly watched for the first hit of the dp then drive cancelled.
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Initially I was not very excited about ;fd ;dn ;fd ;a being possible, because I figured I'd just mess up and do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a instead, but when I sat down and experimented to find what else worked, it paid off.
If you still have problems, you can still do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;fd ;c and just learn the timing needed. If your reaction time is good, you can do that and if the Drive Cancel doesn't happen, you have just enough time to DC the second hit of Crow Bites into ;dn ;df ;fd ;b . That will allow you to juggle afterwards with ;fd ;dn ;df ;c . It takes less damage, but it's a way of salvaging the combo and still getting some extra damage, along with the crazy corner carry and hard knockdown that ;c Crow Bites gives you.
For the:
;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;fd ;c
Is it not the case that you have go back to neutral after the dp then quickly press ;fd ;c
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Nope, you just need to be very fast. The key is to make sure you press ;a at ;df and ;c at ;fd . It's like a slide input or 1 frame shift from ;a to ;c almost.
Of course, I found out today that you can do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;dn ;df ;fd ;c and it will work, you just have to be extremely precise. Most people do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a , which is why they get a Super Cancel instead.
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Mh, that's a bit hard. I remember having a lot of trouble doing that when I started. The best thing I'd tell you is to try to do a hcb after you do the dp+A motion. That's how I usually do it. You can do it one fluid motion. Just remember to press the button appropriately.
For example, you do dp like ;fd ;dn ;df + A and then immediately do from ;df , ;dn ;db ;bk and it'll work.
what Reiki said should work for you i honestly watched for the first hit of the dp then drive cancelled.
works like a charm now, thanx guys
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So, just letting you all know:
After trying it out today, I've found that EX ein trigger has invincibility during the move. I don't know if it's the forward+D version or not, but I know it did have invincibility.Try it out.
Also, buffering qcb+D x2 to get the slide after f+A is going to be VERY important. I think it's not only a good mix-up, but you can get a DP chain off of it and is a much strong HD activation initiator.
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Normal air Minutes Spike is really hard to combo off of by itself, EX is much easier. ;fd ;dn ;df ;a -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k will probably still be the standard wall carry HD loop. Once you get to the corner you can do ;fd ;dn ;df ;a -> ;dn ;df ;fd ;c -> ;fd ;d , ;fd ;a -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k -> ;dn ;db ;bk ;k loops, which are slightly more damaging. The cancel from ;a Crow Bites to ;c Trigger is also much easier to do in HD mode.
Going from that last sentence, I was experimenting with shortcuts for DP moves and found out some interesting info. I've been struggling with trying to master ;a Crow Bites Drive Cancel to ;c Trigger, since being able to do it consistently grants a big increase in K's corner damage. I tried out the ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a shortcut a few times, but I found that while I could do it consistently outside of a combo, I have a tendency to "ride" the gate of my stick when trying to perform it quickly during a combo, so it was coming out as ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;a instead, which would result in a Super Cancel to Heat Drive when I would try to go for ;c Trigger. I had then switched to doing it as ;fd ;dn ;df ;a ;fd ;c , because while that technique requires much stricter timing, I found I preferred it since I would avoid accidentally cancelling to a DM.
Then I saw the video on Nico Nico Douga where a player was going through K's entire movelist and struggling with the trials where you have to cancel ;a Crow Bites to Trigger. In one of the scrolling comments, someone listed the input for the Crow Bites as 626A, or ;fd ;dn ;fd ;a . I went to try it and found out that it works!. This got me interested in messing around to see how else you could input a DP motion, and the results I found were pretty interesting.
In order for the game's command interpreter to register a DP motion:
1. The first input MUST be ;fd
2. The second input can be either ;dn or ;db
3. The third input can be either ;df or ;fd
This makes the total recognizable DP motions as ;fd ;dn ;df , ;fd ;dn ;fd, ;fd ;db ;df and ;fd ;db ;fd .
This also explains why ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd works, as the game reads it as the ;fd ;db ;fd input.
With this information, I was finally able to consistently perform this particular Drive Cancel easily in a combo. I even make it a little easier on myself by HOLDING ;fd right before I want to do ;a Crow Bites, then finishing the motion with ;db ;fd ;a (basically like doing Zaneiken with Andy).
Just wanted to share this info. It should
great logical post and breakdown of the dp motion. i think zaneiken into fb is gonna be my super cancel (unless im using andy).
anybody got a tip for cancelling 2 fb motions where the second ones button is the same as said characters ;dn ;df ;fd x2 super. with shen for example i do it with a slight pause in between so a super doesn't get triggered. any easier way?
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A little thing I'm just messing around with.... can K' drive cancel from Iron Trigger at all? Because I'm not having any luck.
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I guess my other video got posted here? But I made another video that shows some console only K' combos...
KOF XIII more console idea scraps/left overs... Iori, Kim, Kyo, K' Combo video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gjXrROQ-XA#)
Also note I forget if it was said in this thread. But I think someone said that you can only minute spike after a heat drive hits in the air. This is false. It works on ground hits too. Anywho....
Also note although I believe I said it in one of the descriptions for the videos as well, something to go with in the back of your mind now when playing is that.. Where you could end your combo with a L P dp before hand, now a random hit to air minute spike actually does more damage. And where you could end with a HP dp, remember that jump CD to minute spike is more damaging. Also I tried to show in this video as well a easy example of a more damaging mid screen sorta varation rather than the normal dp minute spike thing, you can do DP then on the second hit to flame trigger lk follow up then minute spike is more damaging shrug.. Duno why people dont use that.. I dont think its a console only change? But again as ive said before I never played the first game and have only fooled around with this one randomly. Thanks
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Regarding differences between using A or C DP and using air Minutes Spike juggles instead, because of the lousy landing recovery on the air Minutes Spike, I think DP options are still better for continuing offense. The C DP especially because it creates a hard knockdown, gives you a free meaty Trigger setup. I also find that spacing screws up a lot of those combos. For example, Drive cancel A DP into Trigger -> Shoot and following with Minutes Spike only works near the corner, midscreen K' cannot reach with Minutes Spike consistently. Heat Drive works, though. In addition, Drive canceling the second hit of A DP into Trigger is much more difficult than canceling the first hit, the window to do it is much smaller.
An interesting combo I came up with from this was to do j.C, st.C 1 hit cancel to A Trigger -> Shell, Minutes Spike -> Narrow Spike (whiff), A Crow Bites, Drive cancel first hit to EX Trigger -> Shell, juggle with Minutes Spike -> Narrow Spike (whiff), finish with C Crow Bites. This takes the opponent to the corner from fullscreen and does 453 dmg for one stock and one Drive cancel. If you start it off of a single cr.B without a jump in, the combo does 399 dmg.
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It's no joke that we all need to put some effort into learning the more difficult to drive cancel options with K', but the most reliable of options is what we need. Right now, consistency in and combo potential will be very important with him. This is why I feel it's very important for us to learn the correct timing for qcb+K x2 so the slide links in a combo.
I do like the combo you posted, Blake, and we should include it in the analysis. I just feel like we got to explore more options that haven't gotten any traction (like said quick slide)
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Messed around last night and found that Minutes Spike recovery in the corner is good enough that you still have time to place a meaty Trigger on someone if they fallbreak. So the Minutes Spike enders are probably ideal for adding a little extra damage on a cornered opponent. Still like C DP better for midscreen, ridiculous corner carry.
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It's no joke that we all need to put some effort into learning the more difficult to drive cancel options with K', but the most reliable of options is what we need. Right now, consistency in and combo potential will be very important with him. This is why I feel it's very important for us to learn the correct timing for qcb+K x2 so the slide links in a combo.
thats easy, i dont really play or main k (i can obviously play him since i did play him before). the thing im having a hard time with is dp into fb during combos. also in corner ex fb into ;fd ;a x2 is harder than it should be.
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It's no joke that we all need to put some effort into learning the more difficult to drive cancel options with K', but the most reliable of options is what we need. Right now, consistency in and combo potential will be very important with him. This is why I feel it's very important for us to learn the correct timing for qcb+K x2 so the slide links in a combo.
thats easy, i dont really play or main k (i can obviously play him since i did play him before). the thing im having a hard time with is dp into fb during combos. also in corner ex fb into ;fd ;a x2 is harder than it should be.
Maaan, I don't think that's easy at all. It's like training a new muscle. The dp to fireball combos are not easy either though. I feel like they're more necessary now to make K' worthwhile in playing though. That's why we got to go even further for K'. That new ;fd ;db ;fd shortcut though was amazingly helpful. I really appreciate the discovery. I think that's going to be the key. However, I'm having trouble -not- riding the gates when I do it so sometimes I do get the df motion.
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Currently the best drive cancel combos for K' involve his EX qcf+P, f+B or EX qcb+K. When you combo into those, it sets them at the perfect height for dp+A (1hit), qcf+C, f+D. Midscreen I rarely go for d.B or s.C (1hit) into qcf+A, f+D because it required you to be dead close to the opponent for the launcher to hit. I just combo with his standard d.B x2, qcf+P, f+B meterless. Once I have meter, d.B x2, EX qcf+P, f+B, dp+A and if I have a drive cancel on the first hit qcf+C, f+D and you can do the following after.
Midscreen
- no meter: nothing
- 1 meter: qcfx2+P
Corner
- no meter: f+A > j.CD, air qcb+K
- no meter: f+A > dp+C (much easier)
- 1 meter: f+A > j.CD > air qcb+BD > dp+A
- 1 meter: f+A > qcf, hcb+P
- 2 meter: f+A > j.CD > EX super (d.C instead of j.CD for ease)
- 3 meter: f+A > j.CD > air qcb+BD > d.C > EX super
Assuming that you started the combo with d.B x2 > EX qcf+P or s.C > f+A > EX qcb+K you'll have to add 1 more super onto the combo.
For his non-drive cancel high damaging BnBs with 1-3 meters:
Midscreen (You can replace the starter with s.C 1 hit > f+A > EX qcb+K)
- 1 meter: d.B x2 > EX qcf+P > f+B > qcb+D > dp+A
- 2 meter: d.B x2 > EX qcf+P > f+B > qcb+D > EX dp+P
- 3 meter: d.B x2 > EX qcf+P > f+B > qcb+D > d.A > EX super
Corner
- 1 meter: d.B x2 > qcf+A > f+D > j.CD > air EX qcb+K > dp+C
- 2 meter: d.B x2 > qcf+A > f+D > j.CD > EX super
- 3 meter: d.B x2 > qcf+A > f+D > j.CD > air EX qcb+K > d.C > EX super
Also note I forget if it was said in this thread. But I think someone said that you can only minute spike after a heat drive hits in the air. This is false. It works on ground hits too. Anywho....
Also note although I believe I said it in one of the descriptions for the videos as well, something to go with in the back of your mind now when playing is that.. Where you could end your combo with a L P dp before hand, now a random hit to air minute spike actually does more damage. And where you could end with a HP dp, remember that jump CD to minute spike is more damaging. Also I tried to show in this video as well a easy example of a more damaging mid screen sorta varation rather than the normal dp minute spike thing, you can do DP then on the second hit to flame trigger lk follow up then minute spike is more damaging shrug.. Duno why people dont use that.. I dont think its a console only change? But again as ive said before I never played the first game and have only fooled around with this one randomly. Thanks
Sorry that was me who said you had to do qcfx2+P against an airborne opponent. You're right, you can do it against a grounded opponent.
As for the dp+A 2nd hit into qcf+P, f+B - it's always better to do dp+A (1hit), qcf+C, f+D as it does a little more damage and it's easier to do once you get the shortcut down. The 2hit into fireball doesn't work in the corner either, so it's better to use the 1 hit into launcher since it's universal and does a little more damage.
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I really should learn that dp into qcf+C string. I feel like my K' suffers midscreen because of it. I just need to do it and get it over with.
Thanks so much for all the help, CMD.DUC -Salute-
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with hd you can confirm anything into C>236A>6D>etc on grounded opponent or anything into j.214B/D>j.214BD(>tk.214BD)>623A>etc on aerial if opponent is enough close to corner for 600+ damage.
236AC>6D does not catches your opponent always? i though if you want to spend drive it's better to do 236AC>6D>214D>623A(>236C>6D)>214D>623A/C
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with hd you can confirm anything into C>236A>6D>etc on grounded opponent or anything into j.214B/D>j.214BD(>tk.214BD)>623A>etc on aerial if opponent is enough close to corner for 600+ damage.
236AC>6D does not catches your opponent always? i though if you want to spend drive it's better to do 236AC>6D>214D>623A(>236C>6D)>214D>623A/C
For the last part, you have to do some sort of short cut. Also, I think the corner is not what we're all worried about. In midscreen is the big problem for K'. What Ash put up is useful, but aside from HD combos, what can we do in midscreen.
Also, keep in mind some of his moves are slow, but you can cancel them into special moves. Like st.C is really slow, far and close, but you can cancel it into any special move.
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Anyone have any advice for executing this bnb:
jump D, stand C, forward A, qcb K x2, dp A?
It seems so simple but I can't for the life of me get the DP to connect... ever. If I watch the CPU do it, the first qcb K seems purposefully whiffed, but anytime I do that, the CPU can block midstring. I've tried doing it faster and faster but no luck. Feels like an inconsistent dice roll and the DP never comes out even if I manage the whiffed qcb K.
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You have to buffer it. You can start buffering it after you do the input for forward A. Just do it a little faster. You can also wait for the forward A to hit and then do it really fast like if you were doing a DM. I'd try it in training mode, turn on your inputs, and go from there.
I've been working on it and I can get it consistently now!
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Thanks Reiko, you're probably right, I'm not buffering at the right times. I can get the whiffed initial qcb K down a bit better now, and the dp is definitely coming out when when I succeed. Very tight timing for a bnb, was it this way in arcade too?
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Thanks Reiko, you're probably right, I'm not buffering at the right times. I can get the whiffed initial qcb K down a bit better now, and the dp is definitely coming out when when I succeed. Very tight timing for a bnb, was it this way in arcade too?
I never tried it in the arcade. Until SNK showed the changelogs, I didn't even know it was possible. Now, it's really K' only way of starting a combo midscreen without the use of stock meter, so it's good to learn it in conjunction with the ;fd ;db ;fd shortcut into qcf+C shortcut. I assume that's big damage right there.
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What combos do more damage with a random hit into air minute spike finisher than with an A.dp? every combo I have tried that with does 5 less damage if i end it with the air minute spike....what am I doing wrong here? lol
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I'm confused. Could you give me an example of a situation where you hit someone and what you do afterwards? Like do you mean you do st.A into Air minute spike? If that's what you mean, you'd have to do an EX afterwards because you land faster and are out of recovery.
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for example, st.C, f.A, qcf.A, f.D, qcb.K, qcb.K(whiff), st.A, air minute spike does 5 less damage than ending with a dp.A instead of st.A, air minute spike.
Maybe I was reading his post wrong, but the way I understood what seekritdude was saying is that the st.A, air minute spike finisher should do more damage than ending with dp.A
Edit: even if you do st.B before the air minute spike it still does 1 less damage than ending with dp.A
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for example, st.C, f.A, qcf.A, f.D, qcb.K, qcb.K(whiff), st.A, air minute spike does 5 less damage than ending with a dp.A instead of st.A, air minute spike.
Maybe I was reading his post wrong, but the way I understood what seekritdude was saying is that the st.A, air minute spike finisher should do more damage than ending with dp.A
Edit: even if you do st.B before the air minute spike it still does 1 less damage than ending with dp.A
After the qcf+A > f+D have you tried to do jump (not hop) CD > air qcb+K? This also will give you a choice to do EX qcb+K in the air instead which will let you do dp+C afterwards.
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just tried that, j.CD > air minute spike does 5 fewer damage than doing the regular combo with a dp.A finisher. If you substitute an EX air minute spike you gain 10 damage so obviously it does way more when you combo further off of that.
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j.CD is really nice
j.CD>j.qcbBC>j.qcbBD>etc for fun with hd combos
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So I'm getting close. Here's what I've been working on so far:
Extended Midscreen Combo (1 drive bar)
hop C, st.C (1), f+A, (qcb+D)x2 -slide-, dp+A (1), qcf+C, f+D, qcb+D, qcb+D (whiff), dp+C
I'm having a hard time with the middle part. Making the slide link is hard without a visual que. I've put a lot of thought into that as well as what is the best shortcut. Every time I do the f, df, f one, I can't hit the forward with my original game.
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j.CD is really nice
j.CD>j.qcbBC>j.qcbBD>etc for fun with hd combos
Didn't know this worked, gonna have to hit the lab and test it out. Thanks for the tip.
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oopsies... my bad I tried again I was wrong about the jab dp one. it does do one point less. My bad.
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oopsies... my bad I tried again I was wrong about the jab dp one. it does do one point less. My bad.
oh ok, lol. I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, lol.
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So have you guys been working on more neutral game ideas? I feel in combos, he's pretty solid. Once he gets you in one, you can go as long as your resources will take you. However, it's getting people into combos.
I'm talking about crossups, mixups, and such set-ups to get you in there for some damage. Was talking with Metaphysics and he notices I'm doing pretty bad in that respect with K'. I think I can do better, but harassing my opponent is not as easy. Any ideas?
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So have you guys been working on more neutral game ideas? I feel in combos, he's pretty solid. Once he gets you in one, you can go as long as your resources will take you. However, it's getting people into combos.
I'm talking about crossups, mixups, and such set-ups to get you in there for some damage. Was talking with Metaphysics and he notices I'm doing pretty bad in that respect with K'. I think I can do better, but harassing my opponent is not as easy. Any ideas?
I'm having trouble with this as well. Right now my gameplan with K' is pretty much just to try and push people to the corner where I can apply pressure and try and force mistakes etc. But midscreen I'm finding it hard to open people up at all really to the point where I can land something more substantial than midscreen cr.b combos. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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j.CD is really nice
j.CD>j.qcbBC>j.qcbBD>etc for fun with hd combos
Is there some sort of trick to making this work? I can't get the HD bypass to work on j.qcb+BC after a j.CD.
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Nooo double posting!
But to help out, I tried the combo starter above.
If you time it properly, you can net it by TKing your qcb+BC. So instead of doing qcb+BC after a jump, you do ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub as soon as you land.
Hope this helps. You can actually buffer it and press the button late.
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Nooo double posting!
But to help out, I tried the combo starter above.
If you time it properly, you can net it by TKing your qcb+BC. So instead of doing qcb+BC after a jump, you do ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub as soon as you land.
Hope this helps. You can actually buffer it and press the button late.
wtf? is that a joke? these forums aren't exactly super hype, probably not the best idea to try and discourage people from posting....didn't realize the internet police were that serious around here...that's some corny ass shit...
but um, yeah, I guess I will try that out, assuming I am allowed to....but obviously I won't post any type of follow up since that is clearly frowned upon...
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I'm not a mod, but those are the rules. I used to get warned for double-posting to in forums that don't get much traffic (IE: Maxima).
You can get upset at me for spending 3 words telling you you could've easily edited your post you just did like everyone else, or you can try the advice I gave you and get over it.
EDIT: And just to be clear, when I told you not to double-post, I wasn't being malicious. Just giving the new kid on the block a reminder. So I don't understand why you flipped your lid.
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Cool story...I was just calling you out for sounding corny trying to be the police of the internet, no flipping of lids was involved.
As for the second part of your post, I don't understand it because it doesn't make sense. I do, however, understand the end of it that says to get over it, which I have.
Hopefully someone will respond to this so that I am allowed to post something more relevant to the console version of K', particularly if something interesting should surface or, God forbid, I have another question.
EDIT: Yes, EDIT...on a positive note, I landed the combo on my first try when i hit training mode, I just hadn't realized that you were supposed to land and then TK the air minute spike, I had been trying to use the HD bypass on an air minute spike after the j.CD before landing.
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It actually made me think that you don't have to immediately cancel into the air minute spike on hit.
As long as you're buffering the motion, you could do TK qcb+D on any hit with the j.CD and turn that 80 damage into 127 damage and a lot of distance covered towards the corner. That's some nice stuff right there.
EDIT:
So I managed to do K' midscreen combo and it does about 409 damage. It's pretty input crazy, but if you get it down, you'll be the happiest person alive.
st.C, f+A, qcb+D x2 (whiff the first part immediately into slide), dp+A (1), [DC] qcf+C, f+D, qcb+B, qcb+B (whiff), dp+A (409)
You can change the last one into dp+C for more damage, but I can't get the combo down consistently so I dunno the exact value.
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After the qcf+C, f+D you should change the ender to f+A, DP+C, f+D for slightly more damage. If you want to spend bar, instead of f+A you can do j.CD, QCB+KK, land, DP+C, f+D or j.CD, land, QCF, HCB+PP, TK QCB+K.
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Huh, really? I'll give that a shot. I'm still getting used to the qcf+C cancel so I never took the time to learn how to f+A that. Will give it a shot. That's free extra damage.
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Huh, really? I'll give that a shot. I'm still getting used to the qcf+C cancel so I never took the time to learn how to f+A that. Will give it a shot. That's free extra damage.
After reading through this thread (I just picked up K' a few days ago) it looks like you can maximize meterless damage by doing f+A, j.CD, QCB+K instead of f+A, DP+C, f+D. I'll have to do some more playing around. The combo videos in this thread was an eye opener to me. Lots of stuff I didn't realize were possible with the character. I really hope I can get the F, D, F shortcut down for the DP+A drive cancel QCF+C because HCB~F+A can get really annoying for me if I have an off day on my execution.
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On the subject of doing the dp+A into qcf+C, apparently there is another way to do it. If you do the ;fd ;db ;fd way, you don't hit any diagonal forward twice. So it's all good that way. DemoNinja figured out a way to do it without any shortcuts. If you just do the motion for the dp, ;fd ;dn ;df clean, you can do the DP motion.
When I turned inputs on, I noticed what would happen if I tried to do a DP into qcf+C. I'd hit ;fd before I did the motion for fireball. That made the super came out. If you don't hit forward before doing the fireball motion, the qcf+C will come out. Took me a few minutes, but after that, I could do it pretty easy. So, have to hand it to Demoninja for figuring that out.
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st.C, f+A, qcb+D x2 (whiff the first part immediately into slide), dp+A (1), [DC] qcf+C, f+D, qcb+B, qcb+B (whiff), dp+A (409)
You can change the last one into dp+C for more damage, but I can't get the combo down consistently so I dunno the exact value.
does the qcb+B, qcb+B, dp+A/C part only work if the combo wall carries or were you able to get that part to connect midscreen too?
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You can substitute in qcb+D, qcb+D if you feel you're too far. I already carried the opponent to the wall so I just went for qcb+B.
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Once I have meter, d.B x2, EX qcf+P, f+B, dp+A and if I have a drive cancel on the first hit qcf+C, f+D and you can do the following after.
I am really confused with this combo. Do you have to run forward to hit the DP+A?
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Killey, I think he meant to add in qcb+D, qcb+D (whiff) into the combo. You're in too much recovery after the EX fireball to run-up and qcb+D, qcb+D (whiff) works just in this scenario.
Cross up set-up #1: 1 x d.B into regular hop
I've been trying to play with K' cross up setups. They're really hard to do for me! I've found that after 1 d.B, you can cross up on someone. Here's the bad part. You have to do the jump C at a very strict timing to cross up. However, there's an upside to it.
You can make fake-cross ups with K' if you get the timing. You could make someone block the wrong way by doing it early and it's still deep enough of a hop to combo if you get the cross up of your don't. It's really interesting what you can get off of it.
The best way I can think of setting up is this: d.B x2 (Blocked), dash up, d.B (blocked), hop over for cross up
Cross up set-up #2: d.D (sweep) into vertical super jump
If you get a knockdown on someone with a sweep from point blank and they don't tech, you can super jump over them on their wake up and cross-up with hop C. Same thing here, you can do a regular jump and make it a little ambiguous, but unless you walk up a few steps prior, it won't cross up. Hyper hop won't either. You can use blackout to cross up while they're knocked down. The farther you are when the sweep hits, the closer you'll be to them when you get behind them (except in the corner of course). You can use this to stay in your opponent's face instead of going for a cross-up cross up. At the max range of a sweep, you're close enough to do d.B. At point blank, you're safe from most moves. Be weary, if they fall break the sweep, you won't be able to cross up.
Cross up set-up #3: d.b x2, A Ein Trigger, run-up into super jump
You can set someone up for a cross up after this special. You can actually hyper hop using this set-up if they block it. It's self-explanatory. On a knockdown, K' can go for another jump C cross-up. You can time it early to make it not cross-up, but it gives you more control and options after an Ein Trigger. It also gives you more reason not to cancel into Second Shoot or Second Shell when you score a knockdown. If they fall break the knockdown, you won't be able to cross up as easily, but you can still do it.
That's all I got. With his normals really nerfed, his set-ups are kind of weird. Something with a diagonal hitbox is his blowback. Might not hurt to do some research and see if using that to cross-up would work.
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Ah, thanks for the information. I noticed doing that will scale the combo quite a bit but at least it's an easier hit confirm.
In terms of cross up set-ups here are the ones I found.
Forward Throw, small hop j.C
You have to wait slightly as your opponent is getting up then small hop j.C. Delay the j.C a bit to hit it as deep as possible.
hop j.CD, land, hop j.C
This was is a lot more tricky as the spacing of where the j.CD is blocked determine whether the hop j.C crosses up, not crosses up, or whiffs. If you hyper hop j.CD from two character spaces away and hit towards the top of the opponent's crouching hit box then a hyper hop j.C (with the j.C delayed a bit) will cross up. If you time the j.C too late it'll whiff and if you time it too soon it won't cross up, which is good in itself. If the j.CD is blocked deeper then the j.C will never cross up.
If you do something like c.Bx2, hop j.CD, land, hop j.C you can cross up the opponent as well. Again, you want to hit towards the top of your opponents hitbox so that it puts you at the right spacing for the j.C to cross up. Timing the j.C a bit later is necessary for the cross up otherwise you end up having it hit in front or whiffing altogether.
Keep in mind these cross ups only work if the opponent is crouching. I haven't played around if they are standing but from my experiences with KoF you're either jumping or super jumping for a standing opponent cross up.
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So, um I need a bit of help.
I'm stuck on trial 3 for K. The problem is the f.A, qcb+K~qcb+K.
I can't figure out the timing or spot to input the qcb. It either comes out or it doesn't at all and whenever I do, I can't seem to get the second qcb+k to cancel in time for the slide kick.
:( halp?
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So, um I need a bit of help.
I'm stuck on trial 3 for K. The problem is the f.A, qcb+K~qcb+K.
I can't figure out the timing or spot to input the qcb. It either comes out or it doesn't at all and whenever I do, I can't seem to get the second qcb+k to cancel in time for the slide kick.
:( halp?
i would recommend you start as soon as you see the f.A about to hit. just keep practicing the qcb kick motion too.
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Yea, even if it's for the trial, learning this is very important.
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I'm having a lot of trouble max cancelling heat drive, anyone have any tips on the timing?
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You should be doing the motion at the super cancel screen. You have to finish the motion at or after the impact. I'm pretty sure you can also cancel after impact as well, but you can't have let them hit the ground.
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oh ok, thanks. I turned on the input display in training mode and I think part of the problem was that I was missing the forward a lot in the second HCB. This helps too though, thank you.
Edit: Hey, were you at the STA ranbat today? I was watching the stream and I swear they said one of the guys names was reiki and he was using K'. If that was you, good shit, lol.
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Yes, I'm the organizer for the tournament. My nick-name within a nickname is "J Dash".
EDIT: J'/Reiki J/Black Dude with the Banana Jacket - FataCon
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lol, nice! I live in Michigan, but my mom lives in Mountain View which is only like 45 minutes from san fran. I'll def try and make it out to STA next time I'm out there, might be around the last week of February. If not then, probably not until April though.
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Once I have meter, d.B x2, EX qcf+P, f+B, dp+A and if I have a drive cancel on the first hit qcf+C, f+D and you can do the following after.
I am really confused with this combo. Do you have to run forward to hit the DP+A?
Oops sorry, there's a qcb+D, qcb+K(miss) after the f+B
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Hey CMD.Duc, while you're here, do you think you could talk a little bit about the narrow spike link from st.C to f+A? Do you use it and what do you look for in terms of speed of the execution and visual cues?
EDIT:
Been working on it.
You can buffer in the first qcb+D before the forward A hits, but you should time it so that you hit the D button when the f+A animation ends. After that, quickly do another qcb+D. I'm finding some interesting applications.
The move comes out fast and can be made safe on block if you use it as a poke from far away. I know, weird, but it actually works out in our favor at that instance. if they're too slow to punish it or you land it on the tail end, you can get yourself in their face without much consequences. It's also a near instant low (since it's fast and combos off of st.C f+A. You can do an interesting mix-up off of st.C, f+A where you can go for a low after the f+A is blocked instead of going for Ein trigger. Since it's so fast, it'll be hard to react to. They might have to guess in order to block it.
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I really dont think the narrow spike is safe on block regardless of distance dude
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You have to hit them with the tail end of the animation. Once the animation ends, it might look like it's unsafe but it isn't. You can try it out for yourself to see, but I've tested it and it does work at a respectable distance.
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EX Narrow Spike is pretty safe. Expensive way to attack low from a distance is EX Narrow Spike, juggle with cr. ;c -> EX Chain Drive.
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I kinda finally figured out how to f.A x qcb+k~qcb+k.
It was so difficult at first for some reason but I didn't know you could buffer and hold the qcb motion during the f.A animation and then hit the K button right as f.A hits.
And thanks darktown!
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Are you referring to during a BC combo in the corner or outside of BC mode eg: st.C, f + A, etc?
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Could go either way. It's important to be able to combo that off of st.C, f+A for the midscreen combo with no meter.
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Yeah, for that new 1 Drive, 0 Meter BnB midscreen, I cannot get the Minute Spike to connect after the Ein Trigger-Second Shell. Opponent seems way too far off for it to actually connect.
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Yeah, for that new 1 Drive, 0 Meter BnB midscreen, I cannot get the Minute Spike to connect after the Ein Trigger-Second Shell. Opponent seems way too far off for it to actually connect.
I think Heat Drive is the only thing that connects midscreen.
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hop C, st.C (1), f+A, (qcb+D)x2 -slide-, dp+A (1), qcf+C, f+D, qcb+D, qcb+D (whiff), dp+C
You mean this one? You should pop them up high enough to do so. I don't have much issue with it. If you feel you can't finish it up, you can always use 1 meter to do EX Minute Spike, do a super for free (Even a well timed qcf, hcb+A will hit), or just go for the dp+C.
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Yeah that one. It isn't that they aren't high enough, it's that they're too far horizontally. Like, K' foot will just miss. Though I am using him on anchor so I guess I could use EX Minute Spike.
EDIT: Okay, even EX Minute Spike is not connecting. I mean, I can do supers easily, and in the corner do whatever including Minute Spikes, but midscreen it doesn't seem to work. I dunno if it's my timing, or the fact that it only works if you're at least close to the corner.
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Yeah that one. It isn't that they aren't high enough, it's that they're too far horizontally. Like, K' foot will just miss. Though I am using him on anchor so I guess I could use EX Minute Spike.
EDIT: Okay, even EX Minute Spike is not connecting. I mean, I can do supers easily, and in the corner do whatever including Minute Spikes, but midscreen it doesn't seem to work. I dunno if it's my timing, or the fact that it only works if you're at least close to the corner.
That might be the case. I've only tried the combo if I'm about half screen. Never really pushed it to where I have to carry all the way to the other corner. Well, that's fine. We just have to store that, practice the skill, and position accordingly.
That is pretty maddening though. Short of d.B, qcf+A, f+D or st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D there's no guaranteed corner carry combos. Once we've got people in the corner, we can be as creative as we bloody want, but it's important to figure out how to control midscreen.
So lets throw combos out of the window for a moment: What tools can we use to control midscreen or bully people into the corner?
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Well first to be specific, there's no guaranteed METERLESS corner combos. EX Ein Trigger-Second Shell makes that a lot easier (and hopefully you'll only need to get them there once) since you can confirm that like a corner Normal Ein Trigger.
As for how to get the opponent there with control or without meter, in general I've always been fond of the less is more approach. I'm no K' expert, or even decent K' at all, but it'd probably be a lot better if you're passive in your approach in pushing to the corner (unless you have the meter in which case, just confirm like normal). Let the opponent make the mistake and capitalize on said mistake. What I've noticed from watching a decent amount of K' play (and let's be honest, who hasn't if they have been following since Arcade), and I honestly think the Ein Trigger-Black Out followup should be used a bit more especially now.
What I've seen are that K' players tend to be really rigid when getting in their neutral game and far range game, almost flowchartish with their Triggers and followups, which makes things like moving around Triggers and punishment a bit easier since K' isn't moving. Using the Black Out followup, now the opponent has to worry about you not being where you're supposed to be when they try to punish. They get frustrated, your Trigger game becomes more of a pain in the ass. I'm not saying abuse the BO followup, but use it every so often so the opponent gets annoyed. And if you already have them scared to move or press buttons, free throw, which means free shenanigans.
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I really like the idea of using the blackout follow up more, I'm definitely going to try that, it is something that I had pretty much ignored.
I'm also struggling somewhat with ways to get people to the corner. I have been pretty successful with more or less fishing for j.CD into air minute spike, which has decent carry. But that has pretty much been against people online and against a very limited number of offline opponents this past weekend. This doesn't really seem like a particularly legitimate strategy against high level players or when the other players catch on. While it seems like a decent option/supplemental strategy, clearly I am in need of more options (as we probably all are).
d.B/Cl.C (1 hit), trigger are also good options that I have been implementing, but they are obviously hard to confirm unless its off of a jump in or something. I think I am going to start using EX trigger more often to gain position, but I am currently running K' on point, so burning lots of meter is not really ideal.
In light of all that, what I have been working on is trying to gain ground via footsies and being conscious of not giving up space....but I am certainly no KoF footsie genius so the results have been...mixed...
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I like watching eLive.pro|Dune's K' for a reference because he just plays a really solid game. It's nothing fancy or any specific setups, he just plays a really good footsie game.
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Got any link to vids? The video thread for K' has been dead for quite a while.
Thanks
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What I've been trying to do is mix in aggressive pressure and spacing control to gain ground and push people to the corner. Mind you, I'm a lot more passive so the usual K' aggression is not my style.
What I've been doing is playing the waiting game. If I'm playing against a fireball character like Kensou or Andy, I'm very wary of if they have meter to use an EX fireball. Other than that, I poke them and wait for them to block. Sometimes, you'll catch them not blocking low and you can buffer the qcb+D, qcb+D while doing Ein Trigger: Second Shell. Once I score a narrow spike hit, I'll do a DP into a DP. With meter, a lot more.
In order to control hop space, I find that I either have to neutral jump B to keep people off me or D. I rarely use neutral hop CD because of the angling. Just too diagonal as a good air-to-air. Other than that, I like to stay on the ground and DP. I know, sounds scrubby, but if nobody is respecting your wake-up, K' DP is great. It's completely invincible on your wake-up and can break through strings that aren't true block strings. Take for example Ralf's st.C, df+A, qcf+C. Most Ralf players, on block, will try to go for maybe an instant overhead or a low. If you anticipate that, you'll stuff both of them with DP+C and net some forward movement and a hard knockdown. Just requires some more thought than mashing it out.
If they're in my hop space, I try to use far D a lot more. What it does for me is gives a lot of damage and it's pretty vertical, a bit more than d.C. It's slower so it's pretty good for anticipating deep hop-ins or jumps if someone wants to play it safe. Otherwise, I'd use d.C for a almost completely vertical hurtbox and the ability to special cancel anything. I'm not afraid to spend some meter on a good hit confirm either, but using EX Ein Trigger for spacing or on block's not bad either. It's safe on block by itself and you can do f.B from a short distance, farther away, or mid range to keep applying pressure.
While I'm closer to somebody, but not really in cl.C or cl.D range, I like to throw out st.C. It's not fast, but not slow either and it's special cancellable on hit. Really great poke.
KOF footsie stuff I really should be applying is empty hop lows. K' throw is hard to set up a cross-up or even a great safe jump (The move whiffs even if you applied it correctly. You have to do hop D, but even then hop D will miss crouching people), but setting up lows really keeps you adding pressure. Dashing forward for low Bs are good too as you can mix that dash up with a hop or a throw. You could even confuse people by doing st.C, f+A and buffer in the qcb+Dx2 for an almost instant low.
While we're on the topic of his move properties, what do you think is a decent reversal for him aside from DP? I know EX minute spike has guard point on start-up, but I never can get it right.
EDIT: I also have been playing around with K' normals this morning and I need some help! If you guys can set K' as a dummy and do the following string on record: d.B, st.B, (on the earliest frame) far C.
Then use any character you have, get up in K' face and run the recording. Aside from DP or a super, on hit, can you guys reversal it using normals? I think this can be a sort of psuedo frame trap. Aside from poking, st.B hs no other uses. What I'm finding is that on block and on hit, it has a little longer blockstun than st.A and you can delay in your heavy moves. They won't combo, but they come out fast enough to screw with your opponent's timing.
List the characters you tried and what worked. Then we can decide if it's worth a shot in gameplay. Thanks in advance.
EDIT: I also have been playing around with K' normals this morning and I need some help! If you guys can set K' as a dummy and do the following string on record: d.B, st.B, (on the earliest frame) far C.
Then use any character you have, get up in K' face and run the recording. Aside from DP or a super, on hit, can you guys reversal it using normals? I think this can be a sort of psuedo frame trap. Aside from poking, st.B hs no other uses. What I'm finding is that on block and on hit, it has a little longer blockstun than st.A and you can delay in your heavy moves. They won't combo, but they come out fast enough to screw with your opponent's timing.
List the characters you tried and what worked. Then we can decide if it's worth a shot in gameplay. Thanks in advance
Note: Supers with invincibilities or DPs with invincibility are not included because that's self explanatory so most EX moves are not listed as well. You should usually assume this won't work against supers or EX moves that have fast/invincible start-up.
List of characters and their options against d.B, st.B, far C
Kyo - d.B (d.A will whiff so can't combo), st.A, st.B
Benimaru - d.B, st.B
Daimon -st.A, st.B, hcb,f+P, dp+K
Duolon- st.a, st.C, d.A, qcf+P
Elizabeth- st.a, d.B, qcb+B
Shen - st.A, far C, qcb+K, qcb+A
Terry - st.B, d.B
Ryo - st.b, f+B (Parry), d.B, hcb+B, d.C
K' - d.B, st.B st.A
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I think that EX blackout is invincible on startup, so maybe you can use that as a reversal to get out of the corner or something, although I have not tried it myself.
Also, I made this post in response to something on SRK earlier today, people here probably know it already, but it might help someone out.
going into HD from cr.Bx2 isn't that bad with K'
cr.B, cr.B, (HD) s.C(1), f+A (optional), dp+A(1), (HDC) qcb+D, qcb+D, etc...
or
cr.B, cr.B, (HD) s.C(1), qcf+A, f+D, qcb+D, blah blah blah...
You just have to do the activation early or whatever so that s.C comes out from the BC activation. Both these methods work from anywhere, however the most reliable way is to omit the f+A from the first method and go straight into dp+A from s.C(1). Also, if s.B comes out after the activation instead of s.C the rest still works the same way.
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I don't think it's invincible on start-up, but after it starts, he's invincible.
I also edited my first post with a project I hope everyone can help me with! Check it out.
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Hi everyone! I just wanted to share my notes with you that I've done through trial and error. If it looks too confusing, please feel free to tell me. I kinda jumble the notations a lot too much ><
These are all just combos, by the way.
Feel free to point out the most practical combos I should use!
[spoiler]K'
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16550980 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16550980)
-Legend-
xx = cancel into
xxx = HD Cancel
/ = Press buttons simultaneously
tk = Tiger Knee Motion
tk.lk/HK/HP = Tiger Kick EX Air Minutes Spike. Automatically triggers HD Mode.
0 Bar:
--0% HD--
137 dmg [All Screen/Soft Knockdown] - cr.lk, cr.lk, qcf+lp, f+lk
198 dmg [All Screen/Hard Knockdown] - j.HP, cr.lk, cr.lk, dp+HP, f+K
201(199) dmg [All Screen] - j.HP(HK), cr.lk, cr.lk, qcf+HP, f+lk
238(236) dmg [All Screen] - j.HP(HK), s.HP, f+lp, qcf+HP, f+lk
--50% HD--
322 dmg [All Screen] - cr.lk, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+HK xx qcb+HK (whiff), dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+lk, dp+HP, f+K
365(363) dmg [All Screen] - j.HP(HK), s.HP, f+lp, qcb+K xx qcb+K (connect), dp+lp xxx qcf+lk, dp+HP, f+K
374 dmg [Close to Corner] - j.HP(HK), cr.lk, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+HK xx qcb+HK, dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+lk, dp+HP, f-K
381 dmg [Corner Only] - j.HP, cr.lk, cr.lk, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+K xx qcb+K, dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+K, dp+HP, f+K
409 dmg [Reiki Combo/All Screen] - s.HP, f+lp, qcb+HK xx qcb+HK (must connect), dp+lp xxx qcf+HP, f+HK, qcb+lk xx qcb+lk, dp+lp
418 dmg [Corner Only] - j.HP, s.HP, f+lp, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+K xx qcb+K, dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+K, dp+HP, f+K
1 Bar:
--0% HD--
339(337) dmg [All Screen] - j.HP(HK), cl.lk, qcf+lp/HP xx f+HK, qcf-qcf+P
--50% HD--
356 dmg [All Screen] - cr.lk, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+HK xx qcb+HK, dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+lk, dp+lp/HP
394 dmg [All Screen] - cr.lk, qcf+lp xx f+HK, qcb+HK xx qcb+HK, dp+lp xx qcf-hcb+lp
430 dmg [All Screen] - j.HP, s.HP, f+lp, qcb+K xx qcb+K (connect), dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+lk, dp+lp/HP
2 Bar:
???
3 Bars:
--100% HD--
884 dmg [All Screen]- j.HP, cr.lk, cr.lk xx HDM xx s.HP, f+lp, qcb+lk xx qcb+lk, [dp+lp xxx qcb+lk, qcb+lk]x2, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx qcb-qcb+lp/HP
4 Bars:
--100% HD--
886 dmg [Anti-Air/Near Corner] - j.CD, tk.lk/HK/HP, [dp+lp xxx qcb+K, qcb+K] x2, dp+lp, f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx qcb-qcb+lp/HP
972 dmg [Counter-Hit Setup/Near Corner] - J.CD (ch), j.CD, tk.lk/HK/HP, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp xxx qcb+lk (must connect), qcb+lk, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx hcb-hcb lp+HP
972 dmg [All Screen] - j.HP, s.HP, f+lp xx HDM xx s.HK, qcb+LK/HK (must connect), qcb+lk, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp xxx qcb+lk (must connect), qcb+lk, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx hcb-hcb+lp/HP
1000 dmg [Instant Kill] - j.HP, cr.HP, f+lp xx HDM xx s.HK, qcb+LK/HK (must connect), qcb+lk, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp xxx qcb+lk (must connect), qcb+lk, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+ lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx hcb-hcb+lp/HP
5 Bars:
--100% HD--
895 dmg [LOL] - j.HP, cr.lk, cr.lk, qcf+lp/HP, f+HK, qcb+k (connect) xx qcb+k, s.HP xx HDM xx tk.lk/HK, [dp+lp xxx qcb+k xx qcb+k] x2, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx qcb-qcb+lp/HP
932 dmg - j.HP, s.HP, f+lp, qcf+lp/HP, f+HK, qcb+k (connect) xx qcb+k, s.HP xx HDM xx tk.lk/HK, [dp+lp xxx qcb+k xx qcb+k] x2, dp+lp xxx f+HP, f+HK, f+lp, qcf-hcb+lp(HP) xx qcb-qcb+lp/HP[/spoiler]
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430 dmg [All Screen] - j.HP, s.HP, f+lp, qcb+K xx qcb+K (connect), dp+lp (2 hits) xxx qcf+lk, dp+lp/HP
This one is great and connects anywhere. It also does some pretty nasty damage for 1 stock bar use. You could also cut off the EX DP to just do the Heavy DP for similar damage.
Another thing. On a hop in, you should try to learn how to do s.HP (1 hit), qcf+LP which can hit anywhere on the screen.
When you get people in the corner though, you need to do some serious damage. Here's an example of a combo that does a crap ton of damage without using any drive. TWO BARS! You got to be resourceful and get a full use out of your meter and EX moves. For example, you can chain in some dp+lp (1hit), into qcb+lk/HK, qcb+lk (whiff), into dp+HP. That can do some damage for just 1 meter and you gain a lot of meter back.
526 dmg [Corner Only] j.HP, s.HP, f+lp, qcf+lp, f+HK, j.HP+HK, *land*, qcf, hcb + LP,HP =
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Got any link to vids? The video thread for K' has been dead for quite a while.
Thanks
Sorry for the late response.
KOF XIII eLive Dune 對戰影片1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLKJxAMPrQo#ws)
KOF XIII eLive Dune 對戰影片2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz6a7Aq1kro#)
That's all I've seen so far. There's a lot more floating around on Nico or eLive.
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Updated the Wiki.
Changes
Ein Trigger
*Included information about C version
-Comes out slower, but longer active frames. Makes it a better neutralize for fireball wars. Carries these properties to follow-ups. Doesn't knockdown.
Second Shoot
*Included information about C version
-C version travels faster than A version
Second Shell
*Included information about C version
-Comes out slower, but longer active frames and area of effect.
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Reiki, I got around to testing that BnB you had before hop C, st.C (1), f+A, (qcb+D)x2 -slide-, dp+A (1), qcf+C, f+D, qcb+D, qcb+D (whiff), dp+C. It CAN be done further from P2 start range (or closer to your corner). You have to DASH right after Second Shoot for a split second, THEN Minute Spike. However, you will get no DP follow up from the Normal Minute Spike and only a A DP for EX Minute Spike, and the timing is tight, but it can be done.
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Hey, that's awesome! I don't mind a little dashing as long as there's a reliable midscreen combo that can be done for some drive.
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Hey, that's awesome! I don't mind a little dashing as long as there's a reliable midscreen combo that can be done for some drive.
Also, no matter where you are on screen, even if your ass is in your own corner, it WILL carry the opponent to the other corner no matter what. It takes a bit of practice to get used to because it feels a bit weird. But yeah, there you go.
The irony is, through learning this and doing a lot better at the Narrow Spike link...I can't do the damn DP+A [DC] QCF+C anymore T_T. I had it down pat a while ago with the longcut and everything, and now I can't do it anymore for crap off of the Narrow Spike.
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Hey, that's awesome! I don't mind a little dashing as long as there's a reliable midscreen combo that can be done for some drive.
Also, no matter where you are on screen, even if your ass is in your own corner, it WILL carry the opponent to the other corner no matter what. It takes a bit of practice to get used to because it feels a bit weird. But yeah, there you go.
The irony is, through learning this and doing a lot better at the Narrow Spike link...I can't do the damn DP+A [DC] QCF+C anymore T_T. I had it down pat a while ago with the longcut and everything, and now I can't do it anymore for crap off of the Narrow Spike.
I learned a trick on how to do that, Saitsu. What you do is not do the longcut, it's not the important part. Got this from DemoNinja, but what you do is you do the exact inputs for the dp. f, d, df. Do not hit forward again before doing qcf+C. It works! You see, normally, people don't do the exact input and they hit forward or df twice before doing the qcf motion and that makes the super come out. If you turn on inputs and try it, you'll see you can do it easy!
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Reiki, I'm aware and I tried that. However, after 3+ years of over extending at least on P1 side of my DP's, it becomes annoying. I can do it P2 side easier for mechanical reasons (however this also tends to screw me in EX Kyo HD combos).
Plus there's no guarantee that in the heart of battle, I won't screw it up and burn unnecessary meter by mistake.
Besides, it's not so much my inability to do it that's the problem, it's the fact that I had the DC DOWN not too long ago and now I suck at it.
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Reiki, I'm aware and I tried that. However, after 3+ years of over extending at least on P1 side of my DP's, it becomes annoying. I can do it P2 side easier for mechanical reasons (however this also tends to screw me in EX Kyo HD combos).
Plus there's no guarantee that in the heart of battle, I won't screw it up and burn unnecessary meter by mistake.
Besides, it's not so much my inability to do it that's the problem, it's the fact that I had the DC DOWN not too long ago and now I suck at it.
Okie doke. Well, it's not entirely necessary. If you can get the narrow spike slide to combo, that's plenty for midscreen combos to stick. That's great right there. The dp into fireball is good damage, but not a necessity for strong K' play.
I feel what really should be highlighted is the changes to Ein Trigger's C version. In arcade, you never used C unless to induce more block stun. Even then, not so useful. Here, it makes the Second Shoot move faster and the Second Shell has a large horizontal space (You can catch people pretty easy when they try to roll through it.)
I think understanding when to use these tools at neutral other than doing combos will be the most useful.
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That would be nice to know. Because if I do indeed go to Winter Brawl, I might use K' and he'd be about 2 weeks old at best.
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There's a shortcut for dp into qcf motion - do dp normally then just tap forward again.
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Yes, but it's way too finicky for K' outside of HD mode.
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you can always try 632146A + qcfC, works for me and my execution sucks
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Yes I know, and that's the longcut I'm using, but for some reason I suck at it now.
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So I think we should take K' a step further and probably analyze some of our progress with him and matches we've been in. Would you guys wanna do some analyzing on how I use K'? I'm not going to say looking at my videos will make you improve or that critiquing my play is just beneficial to me. I think we need something to start off with.
Since I'm being recorded every other week, my footage is easy to get to. What do you think?
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That would be cool unfortunately I dont have a lot of matches recorded other than some of the Wednesday EXDragonProject Rbs.
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http://youtu.be/cmG8KgSSlDk?t=1h37m27s (http://youtu.be/cmG8KgSSlDk?t=1h37m27s)
Reiki.Kito vs. RogerDodger
http://youtu.be/cmG8KgSSlDk?t=1h58m4s (http://youtu.be/cmG8KgSSlDk?t=1h58m4s)
Reiki.Kito vs. Geo.YUC
http://youtu.be/Mew4zzPWx74?t=16m35s (http://youtu.be/Mew4zzPWx74?t=16m35s)
Reiki.Kito vs. N4US
Here are my most recent matches.
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Just a few things to note
Match vs Roger Dodger:
- Its not advantageous to fire off a trigger after blocking an opponents cr.B (Yuri) as it comes out too slow, most likely did it by accident. Better off retaliating with a cr.B or if you notice a pause best to backdash to observe your opponent's habit (in this case Yuri's running command grab). Or you could small jump back air CD instead, which if whiffs and creates space gives you time to see how the opponent then approaches; jumpin or run in.
- Noticed you go for Minutes spike after your opponent block's string ended in Second shot, which is risky but good to keep pressure on your opponent who might be anxious to get back in after keeping them out for long. Its better to use EX Minutes spike into Narrow Spike which is 100% safe so you can still keep the pressure on them.
- Pro tip against Yuri's dive kick: just jump up. Depending on the angle of decent and how late you react it will make the dive kick whiff and free to retaliate back
Otherwise good stuff
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Thanks! I think this is helpful not just for me, but in showing some K' matches to see what we're up against.
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Jumping out of Yuri's dive kick pressure is not an ideal answer. It's one thing you can do to get out of the dive kick pressure but the opponent can adapt and start using s.B OS into demon flip. If you get tagged out of the air with s.B they'll do demon flip throw after and you're back into an unfavorable situation. It's something worth using ocassionally as the opponent can mix in the command grab but just be weary that jumping out is not completely safe.
K' DP is also not a really good answer to Yuri's dive kick because of his DP arc is too horizontal and doesn't cover directly above his head. Might have to time it later but there's a lot of ways for Yuri to stuff the DP or make it whiff.
You're looking at finding patterns or gaps and rolling backwards/forwards, c.C, s.A, s.D, jumping out or guard cancel roll/blowback as being your options against Yuri divekick pressure. Also, just blocking is an answer but Yuri has so many ways to open you up still.
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That is why I mentioned "Depending on the angle of decent and how late you react". Never pre-empt a dive kick for the reason mentioned above. The dive kick doesn't actually come out as quick as you think.
Try experimenting in casuals against a Yuri player.
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Samson K vs. Saitsuofleaves KOFXIII Test Upload (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRZSJbLzxJo#)
I pretty much made this to test out how my Logitech Cam would fare doing uploads of replays. Meh quality, but at this point we don't have a lot of replays.
The reason I put it here instead of the Terry thread where I planned on doing so, is because the person I faced had a beast K'. I had pretty much phoned it in early (it was 1 AM and I just needed one match for a replay to try it out) which is why I was doing so much random crap with my Kensou, but then his K' beat me down.
We had 10 matches which I mostly don't have because I habitually skipped the replay save since I never used it before. His K' read me like a book completely.
Anyway, like I said, this is just a test run.
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He really utilized the Narrow spike to get it into a slide position really fast. I figure if you just blocked low, he wouldn't have felt so at liberty to slide, but I'm also not sure if, at that spacing, it would have been safe.
He had really good reactions. Any slide was met with a full combo from dp+A which is very good to do.
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It was 1 AM and online...I'm only human.
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It was 1 AM and online...I'm only human.
Not knocking your gameplay, Saitsu, just saying inner thinking that came out in words. I'm sorry. Oh, I was also wondering. What do you think of Super HD Bypassing. Where you can do a super that's either a punch or a kick, but use CB instead to HD bypass.
I tried it with Terry and it's freakin' retarded.
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Uh, depends on the Super I guess. Works better with characters that have better DMs in Neutral.
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Uh, depends on the Super I guess. Works better with characters that have better DMs in Neutral.
You can combo it. Like st.D into qcf x2 +CB would link. You could do st.C, f+A, qcf, hcb+CB and that should link too.
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I'm aware of that. But in most cases you can combo into it, you probably could've gone into HD mode and at least added a couple more hits unless it affects scaling.
Being used on better neutral DM's makes it better because they're more likely to be used and turn the tide. Like say...EX Buster Wolf HD Bypass through a projectile into Trinity Geyser. A lot of meters but the opponent will likely be too terrified to every throw that many neutral projectile again.
Or the usual fun stuff of Command Grab DM HD Bypass into Neomax for a decent amount of characters.
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Hi everyone, im fairly new to the site but not to KOF, and ive been playing K for a while now, but havent figured out, whats the input for qcb K after EX Chain Drive, ive tried buffering, tking, etc with no success
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You have to TK it the moment you see him fall down. Its not easy, but just keep trying. Its just a matter if timing.
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Hi everyone, im fairly new to the site but not to KOF, and ive been playing K for a while now, but havent figured out, whats the input for qcb K after EX Chain Drive, ive tried buffering, tking, etc with no success
You can also buffer a backdash during the recovery of the move and do an air minute spike from the backdash, for it to work you have to do it right as you leave the ground or right before you land though. For some reason this method works better for me than TKing it, both methods definitely work though so you should use the way that works best for you.
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it's not worth doing at all because you can get an extra 20 or 30 points of damage and have to drive cancel it with EX air Minute Spike which you're already wasting 3 meters and a drive to keep the combo going
not a great idea to learn it since you can miss it and eat a shit of damage since the recovery sucks for it.
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The extra damage is always useful and the option's there. The EX Chain Drive super does crappy damage by itself, but the opportunity to combo after it is what really makes it strong. The last 2-3 hits of the super are also unscaled/true damage so you're getting a consistent value as Air Minute spike doesn't get lower than 10 dmg.
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[KoF13] Part 1 - 3v3 Team Tournament Cafe Id (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S62OWlZAGr0#)
I'd say the K' in this video was pretty on point. I especially liked the EX Minute Spike HD Bypass into full combo.
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K' users. Meta data up.
Reiki, many thanks for setting up the table ahead of time.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=K%27_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=K%27_(XIII))
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So, here's something funny you can do with K' in the corner.
If you put someone in the corner, do st.B. As soon as you are able, do st.D. You'll be placed close enough where you can hit them with cl.D, but also be far away enough that you can do a dp+C ender from your Ein trigger chain. It's not a link though so they can block, but st.B gives you +1 frames so you're pretty good on block.
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Hey all, I'm new to KOF and looking into K' as my first character. Any tips you guys can give to a complete beginner in this game? [Note I came from an SF background, but I'm here to improve my execution skills and learn proper fundamentals of the game.]
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Hey all, I'm new to KOF and looking into K' as my first character. Any tips you guys can give to a complete beginner in this game? [Note I came from an SF background, but I'm here to improve my execution skills and learn proper fundamentals of the game.]
Howdy! Best thing I can suggest for you with K' is to first learn how to protect yourself without using meter! You don't want to rely on meter so much for situations that don't need it!
Defense with normals is important. Using st.A to anti-air people that hop is better than trying to anti-air with Ein Trigger or a dp sometimes. You want to make full use of your normals to poke people when you can. His far standing D is also a great anti-air and has a very long hitbox. You can use it to keep people from full jumping in on you. If you want to get real ballsy, you can HD activate off of it and go for a full combo, but that's more advanced.
d.C is probably one of his slower anti-airs, but if they try to safe jump, your st.A whiffed, or what not, this can easily be cancelled into any other special or command normal.
Playing defense can be beneficial. K' special moves can lead into combos from random hits. Say for example if I pressure someone with his fireball and they try to jump after. I could do Minute spike as they jump and snag them out of the air for a full combo. If they try to jump in on me from high up, I could dp or use Ein Trigger into f+D to snag them out of the air for a full combo.
My suggestion, for defensive purposes, always use C version Ein Trigger. The fireball moves faster, the hitbox on his flame kick is longer, the actual Ein Trigger has longer active frames and people can even land in it if they jumped too poorly. It's a very good neutral game tool.
Sometimes the best defense is running away. You can't always be pressured in the corner. Using his B or D teleport to run or get around your opponent is a good idea, especially if you don't want to waste meter to GC Roll or GC Counter. Also, defense is about not making too many silly and unnecessary errors. K' heavy version DP is invincible on start up, but slow. If you could hit them with a normal, hit them with a normal. Don't depend on your C Dp for anti-air or your Minute spike into narrow spike for getting in. Both are extremely punishable moves. I'm not saying you shouldn't try it, but mix up your aggression with plain run-ins or jump-ins or someone will block narrow spike low and punish you.
Combos
If you want to get in with a full combo in midscreen, these are what you need to do.
(As close as possible) d.B, qcf+A, f+D =>
Hop C, st.C(1), qcf+A, f+D =>
Now these are two hit, hit confirms. That's not entirely easy, but what you can do is, if it's blocked, do f+B instead. This does the fireball and is much safer on block than f+D. Also, d.B won't combo in a jump in unless you cross them up. That's not very easy with K', but as you learn more about him, you'll get it and that d.B, qcf+A, f+D will come in handy.
Other than that, you really want to push your opponents to the corner. You can get full combos in the corner with hop-ins for practically any normal as long as you're in the corner.
EX meter makes it so any combo starter can turn into a full combo, but only do this in the midscreen or if you want that extra damage. If you don't have to use it to start your combo, don't.
Pressure
When you're far away, use your Ein Trigger by itself to neutralize fireballs until you can get in hop range. From there, you can use your very fast normals to poke at your opponent and push them to the corner. Mix up your constant hop pressure, j.CDs, and hopping and doing nothing to throw them off. When you hop and do nothing, you can land into a low B or you can throw them. Either way, lead them towards the corner.
In the corner, if they're still blocking, you can apply some serious pressure to them. I like to do d.B, d.B, qcf+A and quickly do st.B. St.B pins them down if they tried to press anything or jump. If they didn't do anything after the st.B, run up and do it again. You can mix up your pressure with other strings like st.C (1 hit), qcf+A, d.B, qcf+A or d.B, qcf+A, d.B, qcf+A. You want to keep pressuring them with your Ein Trigger until they make a mistake and you can score a full combo off of them. It's important to keep them from jumping out. If you know they're gonna jump, hopping straight up with jump B or jump D to knock them out of the air.
When you improve a bit more, you can TK (Tiger Knee A.K.A ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub) your air minute spike when you land to instantly hit someone after you hit them with an air-to-air normal.
Anyway, hope this is helpful! Check out the wiki for more combos or general information, but this should be sufficient for a beginner.
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Wow... :D I wasn't expecting anything like this, but this is some great info! Being new and all it's gonna be a month or so before I actually can learn to implement hops and other technical stuff into my combos. I'm in Shoryuken daily with SFxT being out and all, so if this is just as active I'll be here a lurking these forums as well. Thanks again Reiki!
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Wow... :D I wasn't expecting anything like this, but this is some great info! Being new and all it's gonna be a month or so before I actually can learn to implement hops and other technical stuff into my combos. I'm in Shoryuken daily with SFxT being out and all, so if this is just as active I'll be here a lurking these forums as well. Thanks again Reiki!
Yeah def hang out here, get ur KOF fix ;)
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So I'm trying out K' shortcut for dp into fireball ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd.
Now, for some reason. If I press dp+A~C, it rarely comes out on time. However if I do dp+A~B/D, it always works and I get a teleport. That's so dumb ;-;
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So I'm trying out K' shortcut for dp into fireball ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd.
Now, for some reason. If I press dp+A~C, it rarely comes out on time. However if I do dp+A~B/D, it always works and I get a teleport. That's so dumb ;-;
The times I've tried it Dp+A~C Ein Trigger will come out late. As far as I know that works all the time in HD mode perfectly. I usually resort to HCB,F+A~QCF+C but that has more room for error for me. For some reason K' seems to have the hardest Dp into fireball "timing" (i guess you can put it that way) weird hu?
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Ryo is really similar in this respect. I feel your pain. HD no probs. Outside of HD, the fb is a touch late, but crackingly hard timing to master.
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Gotta be a better way to master that sort of cancel, but I am glad that there's plenty of ways to do it.
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Cross-up setup
-Crouching character-
cr.b, cr.b, st.b, hop.b, hop.C
Description -- This is a typical block string that can be hit-confirmed from the hop b. If the hop b connects, you can do a BnB, HD, whatever combo. If it's blocked, do a hop C and it will cross up as long as the opponent continues to crouch. If the opponent blocks both, you can still do another block string. You can even mix it up and instead of doing a hop C, you can empty jump to a low or a throw.
Notes -- You can only do the 2 cr.Bs when you're at point blank range. If you're a bit farther (you usually will be), this will still work with 1 cr.B into a st.B. This string is also pretty easy to memorize the first time you're hit by it, meaning you shouldn't be using this crossup string constantly. Try to mix it up and confuse your opponent. This also puts you on the near-max range of your Ein Trigger. If you've conditioned your opponent to expect a hop B, pull out a Trigger instead and they'll get hit by it. You can't do a Second Shell after it because the range is too far, so if you can hit confirm the Trigger, then follow up with a Second Shoot. If they block the Trigger, you're completely safe.
If you do the Trigger, you can also do a B-version Blackout followup, and K' will teleport right in front of the opponent.
What it loses to -- This loses to a straight up standing jab/A when you attempt to hop either the first or second time. However, the opponent would have to react well to the hop B. Some jabs will trade with the hop b and will just put everyone on neutral ground.
If you're going for the Trigger mixup after the st.b, always use the C-version Trigger. The big weakness of this crossup/mixup is that the opponent can predict the hop B and use their own hop. Hop attacks like Kula's hop b or Iori's hop b (maybe even his D) can straight up beat your hop. If you use the A-version of the Ein Trigger, the hitbox of the trigger will not hit the opponent if they hop forward, and they can hit confirm into a combo. The C-version and EX version always will.
Raw Heavy-Version and EX DPs beat all of these. Weak-version DPs will trade against the Trigger.
I doubt it's new technology. But I wrote it down myself because it's very useful. You have multiple hit confirms (cr.b, cr.b, st.b and a hop b), a mixup (C Eins Trigger), and a crossup setup all in one. It could also condition the opponent to force a DP if he's scared, and you can simply block, dash and punish. Extremely useful.
The only real downside is that if you go for the Trigger mixup and they block it, you force them pretty far back, and you lose your pressure zone.
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I dont use K but i think i might, i was missing around with his block strings to find vulnerabilities and openings for KIM but ;dn ;b ;b ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c is safe but Kim can EX Hiezan (flash kick) out of it now... ;dn ;b ;a into Ein Trigger is way safer. i thik the ;dn ;a has more block stun so it cant be interupted by DPs and Flash kick moves....prolly old knowledge but thought i'd share just in case
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I dont use K but i think i might, i was missing around with his block strings to find vulnerabilities and openings for KIM but ;dn ;b ;b ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c is safe but Kim can EX Hiezan (flash kick) out of it now... ;dn ;b ;a into Ein Trigger is way safer. i thik the ;dn ;a has more block stun so it cant be interupted by DPs and Flash kick moves....prolly old knowledge but thought i'd share just in case
Yeah, ;dn ;b ;b is a bad blockstring, but if it hits, it does 58. Meanwhile ;dn ;b ;a is a true blockstring but during confirmation does only 53. If you don't mind losing 5 points of damage, then you should stick with ;dn ;b ;a. But if you want better range and 5 extra damage, then ;dn ;b ;b is your way to start combos from a low.
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If you could try other DPs as well, we could test how serious of an issue it is. In my opinion, it doesn't feel too bad for us to switch to d.B, d.A. If we're fighting Kim, maybe so, but I'd rather have the ability to poke and hit the opponent than the possibility of it whiffing.
d.A has terrible range and makes it hard to hit with. I wouldn't recommend it in combos, but if you guys feel it works, I'm not gonna argue.
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The question at hand should be where the DP is happening (between the two ;dn ;b attacks or between ;dn ;b and ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c) and whether or not that reversal is being done on reaction. If you can reverse with DP on reaction, then we need to reassess our offensive approach. If the DP is a guess, then it's simply another way to bait people, since they're taking a huge risk by trying to DP out of a string which can be stopped early for no real risk.
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Are there any good safe-jump setups that K' has? And what's the best way for K' to keep the pressure on opponents?
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The only real safe jump setup I know of is after a throw, since it grounds them right next to you and disallows fallbreak. Just hop with ;c with the correct timing.
The nerfs to Trigger and its followups seem to have had a really distinct effect on K's ability to pressure people. I tend to play more of a spacing K'. I also abuse j. ;c ;d a lot due to the ability to hit things like air Minute Spike or EX Chain Drive afterwards, you can abuse it somewhat due to its silly hitbox and large blockstun. From round start distance or closer, you can follow a j. ;c ;d with a hop into an HD bypass combo, provided you have at least one stock available. As far as actual pressure, I think the most legit thing available is EX Trigger pressure in the corner, since it gives a massive amount of frame advantage and also does huge damage to the guard gauge. Close ;c 1 hit canceled to EX Trigger can be repeated on a cornered opponent due to the frame advantage and lack of pushback. You can guard break someone very quickly if they don't act fast, and if you have at least 50% Drive, you can still land a strong combo after breaking their guard. In general though, K' can't really pressure people outside of the corner, so your goal with him should be to space the opponent and try to drive them into the corner quickly, either by landing a combo or just otherwise dominating them at midrange and pushing them back. Once there, you can use his close normals combined with well spaced Trigger usage to put the pressure on.
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The question at hand should be where the DP is happening (between the two ;dn ;b attacks or between ;dn ;b and ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c) and whether or not that reversal is being done on reaction. If you can reverse with DP on reaction, then we need to reassess our offensive approach. If the DP is a guess, then it's simply another way to bait people, since they're taking a huge risk by trying to DP out of a string which can be stopped early for no real risk.
Like I said ;dn ;b ;b is not a Block String, they can interrupt you between the 2 ;dn ;b if they have a fast reversal or a invincible EX/Super/NEOMAX. But ;dn ;b > ;dn ;df ;fd ;a/ ;b is safe, that is a true Block String and any of their follow-ups too.
Of course is really hard to do a reversal during the ;dn ;b ;b , but its possible.
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Ok but that goes back to what I was saying, if someone has to guess to DP out of ;dn ;b ;b, then you can just bait them and punish. If I know someone is trying to uppercut out of my string, I'd just stop at ;dn ;b and block. It doesn't hurt me at all ( ;dn ;b is +1 frames on block) and it's a huge risk for the other person to attempt.
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Of course, you can bait them, but only if you know they are going to try it. I mean, I still think its really risky for someone to reversal during ;dn ;b ;b, because that string is basically a frame trap. So unless the guy can reversal you consistently, then you should just bait him. Or if you want, do ;dn ;b > ;dn ;df ;fd ;a/ ;b and you will keep him in a block string.
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I think we're pretty much splitting ends here. So it's useful knowledge against people like Kim, Terry, or Leona who can charge a reversal by holding down and hitting up. It's also useful to know if they actually start doing it. Everyone else; will probably rarely see.
I think any knowledge is useful knowledge, but we really need to work on our tools against other characters that are problematic.
I feel outside of the corner, K' has serious problems. His crossups are either hard or predictable. His usual BnB in midscreen is difficult as well off of a random poke. You can't just run up to somebody and hit d.B, Ein Trigger. You're just losing pressure or you're guessing. Hitconfirming off of 1 d.B is also hard. I feel we need a universal gameplan with our character. We realize his best combo potential is in the corner. He doesn't really have an overhead. What does a K' player need to know in order to fight effectively to push an opponent to the corner or to be successfully aggressive on an opponent.
I don't have a definite answer aside from a LOT of corner carry and punishing poor jump-ins/risky moves with a corner carry combo, but I feel that should be what we put our efforts into. With EVO around the corner, this is real important for showing K' is a strong competitor.
Are there any good safe-jump setups that K' has? And what's the best way for K' to keep the pressure on opponents?
Adding on to this: You can do d.B, d.B, qcf+A, f+B. If the fireball hit, you should be able to safe jump. Be wary of that because if the fireball doesn't hit, you won't have enough time to recover from the fireball and run at them. It makes it so you can footsie your way with someone antsy to reversal.
However, the timing is pretty tough. If they crouch, you'll likely whiff if they didn't do a reversal, but I'm fairly certain there's a window of timing where you'd hit them.
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Ok but that goes back to what I was saying, if someone has to guess to DP out of ;dn ;b ;b, then you can just bait them and punish. If I know someone is trying to uppercut out of my string, I'd just stop at ;dn ;b and block. It doesn't hurt me at all ( ;dn ;b is +1 frames on block) and it's a huge risk for the other person to attempt.
If you are putting pressure on an opponent expect them to commit to blocking, unless you leave gaps big enough for him to perform a reversal on reaction or if you are being too obvious with your stings. As far as I am concerned, its really irrational for someone to attempt to DP out of any ;dn ;b ;dn ;b especially K''s.
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I think we're pretty much splitting ends here. So it's useful knowledge against people like Kim, Terry, or Leona who can charge a reversal by holding down and hitting up. It's also useful to know if they actually start doing it. Everyone else; will probably rarely see.
I think any knowledge is useful knowledge, but we really need to work on our tools against other characters that are problematic.
I feel outside of the corner, K' has serious problems. His crossups are either hard or predictable. His usual BnB in midscreen is difficult as well off of a random poke. You can't just run up to somebody and hit d.B, Ein Trigger. You're just losing pressure or you're guessing. Hitconfirming off of 1 d.B is also hard. I feel we need a universal gameplan with our character. We realize his best combo potential is in the corner. He doesn't really have an overhead. What does a K' player need to know in order to fight effectively to push an opponent to the corner or to be successfully aggressive on an opponent.
I don't have a definite answer aside from a LOT of corner carry and punishing poor jump-ins/risky moves with a corner carry combo, but I feel that should be what we put our efforts into. With EVO around the corner, this is real important for showing K' is a strong competitor.
K' is still strong, but of course as powerful as he was in the arcade version the nerfs were hard on him. His neutral game suffered, now we have to rely more on EX Ein Trigger mid screen for BnBs. His Minute spike anywhere juggle has helped him cope with some of his nerfs but at "high" level play I have not really seen anyone take advantage of that.
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I'm still not used to using EX Ein Trigger to confirm into combos. It just feels like a waste. But hitconfirming off of one B is hard ><.
Maybe we should step away from BnBs and combos, take this in a different angle. Instead of combos, lets talk about more unnoticed things about K' neutral game or movement. I think there are some characters that benefit a lot from moves that move them around or can be used to put them in bad situations.
Also, maybe some universal responses to hard problems. Like Joe has some pretty annoying corner pressure, there's barely any room to go out and good Joe's can put you in the stun combo if you mess up. I've found that EX Minute Spike is very useful here as well as EX Blackout. EX Minute spike has guardpoint on like the first frame of the move (Obscure, I know), but for tight blockstrings where you normally couldn't get out of them, this might be useful. EX Blackout is invinicble during the active frames of the move, but I don't think the start up is.
In neutral game, I noticed a lot of people use j.CDs to get in because they go unchallenged. K' has a pretty fast run and his low B ducks under some attacks. If you're feeling ballsy, you can d.B under someone's CD or really high jump (Benimaru for example) or run under them (cross under). If you cross under, timing the d.B is hard, you might have to use meter to confirm into a combo. My suggestion is to run under then jump back at them.
I think if we attack certain situations differently, we'll have chances to get in that weren't apparent before.
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I think K has 2 easy ways to bring someone to the corner, without using meter.
1. j.HP/j.LK > c.LKx2 > ;dn ;df ;fd ;a + ;fd ;a if the fireball hits, it push the opponent really far.
2. j.CD > ;dn ;db ;bk+K If you hit the j.CD you can definitely cancel to qcb+K or hop again and do qcb+K
Those are the best ways to do it, also throwing a ;dn ;df ;fd+PP > ;fd+LK from mid-screen can be useful to get close or get someone off-guard with the speed of it.
Changing subjects, any tip on doing his instant slide after qcb+K? I do it by doing qcb+LKx2 really fast, but is obviously not the best way to do it, since its not consistent. Is there a shortcut for it? I been looking for one, but I don't think I have found it yet.
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I think K has 2 easy ways to bring someone to the corner, without using meter.
1. j.HP/j.LK > c.LKx2 > ;dn ;df ;fd ;a + ;fd ;a if the fireball hits, it push the opponent really far.
2. j.CD > ;dn ;db ;bk+K If you hit the j.CD you can definitely cancel to qcb+K or hop again and do qcb+K
Those are the best ways to do it, also throwing a ;dn ;df ;fd+PP > ;fd+LK from mid-screen can be useful to get close or get someone off-guard with the speed of it.
Changing subjects, any tip on doing his instant slide after qcb+K? I do it by doing qcb+LKx2 really fast, but is obviously not the best way to do it, since its not consistent. Is there a shortcut for it? I been looking for one, but I don't think I have found it yet.
I just do (Qcb+K)X2 at a relatively fast speed and it comes out. Same as you combo into it. Think of it as one motion. As far as I know there no known shortcuts.
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I just do (Qcb+K)X2 at a relatively fast speed and it comes out. Same as you combo into it. Think of it as one motion. As far as I know there no known shortcuts.
That sucks, I wish there was a easier way to do it. If there was, then that could be a good way to get close to the opponent and if hit, then just do a dp or a EX DP.
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For me what sucks the most is having to do ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a~ ;dn ;df ;fd ;c outside of HD mode. I much rather have that than a buffer for Heat Drive.
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For me what sucks the most is having to do ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;a~ ;dn ;df ;fd ;c outside of HD mode. I much rather have that than a buffer for Heat Drive.
Well that also sucks, really wish it was a simple as in HD mode. I wonder if they did something about K in Climax.
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Based on what Ive read so far, no one has mentioned any changes for him. At first they said that they were going to make such shortcuts more lenient or in a way that would not interfere with other buffers. Something like that.
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Off of the st C > fA chain the minute spike is pretty easy. Buffer the first 214B(D) early and then buffer another one to release the instant it comes out. It's not the largest window but with a bit of practice it should come out 100%. Doing it raw you more or less just have to do it fast. I do it with nearly super timing (reverse heat chain) just with a tiny gap between the 214 buffers to tap a B or D.
Thanks Reiki for the tip about guard point, I'm gonna go test that.
edit: you guys DON'T like doing the 632146A (DC) 236C? It's like a source of pride for me now, thinking back to how hard this game was to start, and now I'm doing half circle back > forward for DPs of all things hahaha.
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Not really lol. Its not that its too hard or anything but it feels like a weird input. Plus muscle memory makes us auto pilot other moves. Its like being used to an orthodox stance and switching to southpaw to do the same 1 2 3.
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I am not used to the half circle back, forward motion. It feels really, really weird. But then again, a year ago, I had issues doing half-circle back let alone two of them so I feel like my execution's gotten better.
Either way, it's still annoying as hell. >.<
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The motion maybe a little awkward but it's worth committing to muscle memory because that's K' most damaging drive cancel corner combo.
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Fuck ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd+LP > ;dn ;df ;fd+HP, I'm going for ;fd ;df+LP > ;dn ;df ;fd+HP
It has been working for me more than the other mode. Also I'm doing this on pad, and mentally I'm doing ;fd ;df , but it seems the game registers ;fd ;dn ;fd instead. So it works for me, hopefully this helps others. Of course, I need to practice it more for it to work 100%, but it has been more successful for me this way.
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I feel it's easy to drop it if it's not committed to muscle memory as well as it being a super long motion.
I've seen a lot of different ones too. Some suggested you do the motion, but don't do the ;fd after the DP motion. That does work, but stick control is the issue. You have to be very comfortable or it won't work at all.
There's also the, what seems to be, 1-frame link method where you do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd and just slide tap over ;a then ;c. They all work, but no matter what, it's going to be difficult to master.
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I have a question, is there any benefit of using ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;c outside the combo area?
I always use LP version, even for zoning but recently I been wondering if there is any benefits of using the HP version.
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I have a question, is there any benefit of using ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;c outside the combo area?
I always use LP version, even for zoning but recently I been wondering if there is any benefits of using the HP version.
Can help you with that.
I mentioned this on the wiki. The Light Punch version launches the fireball slower and most of the follow ups have lower active frames and range. The good part about the A version is that it causes knockdowns and it combos easy for more follow ups. Other positive is that it recovers much faster and provides you with great blockstun at the tip of the move.
The Heavy Punch version of Ein Trigger is much more active for a longer amount of time. You can use it even when someone's knocked down as a meaty move to keep them in blockstun or even combo off of it if it hits. The "longer active" frames extend to all the follow ups as well. Second shoot flies faster when you use the C version and Second Shell lasts a lot longer and has more horizontal range than the A version. It's good to keep it in mind for zoning and keeping people out to use the C version, but to switch to the A version for combos. From a random hit, you won't get a full combo, but enough to really irritate your opponent.
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^ As expected, for instinct I use A version instead of C. I need to change that in my gameplan for now on. Thanks for the extra info Reiki!
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Midscreen use A version to knock people down and push them towards the corner during combos. For example after ;dn ;b x 2 hitconfirm. The C version followed by Second Shoot is always guaranteed off of this regardless of range, mostly due to the speed of C version Second Shoot. However, since A knocks down, even if the Second Shoot doesn't combo, you can use it to knock them towards the corner and then force them to block the Second Shoot, allowing some pressure. Use C version midscreen if you are really desperate for the extra damage and you want to be absolutely sure.
The frame data on the wiki seems to indicate that both versions of Ein Trigger are the same on block (-5). Reiki, are you sure the A version recovers faster?
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Perhaps he was referring faster recovery on whiff. On block they do give the same amount of block stun.
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Ive nearly always been of the party opposed to using K' in console, but I recently picked him up again (for the first time since 2002) and put him back on my main team, the problem I'm facing is that I'm having difficulty with his HD combo, are their any shortcuts for the spike/bite loops? (PS: I'm not performing the neo max on account of the scaling)
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Just make sure to input minute spike as soon as the first hit of crow bite connects. After that just follow a rhythm.
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repoost from oki page, if anyone had posted this before forgive me.
I've come up with a safe jump setup with K'.
This is in particular very good for point K', as there is often times when you cannot go for an optimal 1b1d combo due to meter constraints. Some characters can use their fastest DPs or EX DPs to go through, as I continue to test I will complete the listing below.
st C > 236A > fB > st A > neutral hop B.
You can instead go for 623C off the fB, and get some more damage out of it, but I would honestly use a safe jump setup in this particular instance more often than not, as you are granted free pressure as a result.
People it doesn't work on:
Ash (d~u+B and d~u+BD)
Normal Kyo (623A and 623AC)
Benimaru (623BD)
Daimon can at best make it whiff with his invincible throw.
Terry (d~u+AC)
Saiki (236236K)
Ryo (623A and 623AC)
Robert (623A and 623AC)
Takuma (hcb+BD, hcf+BD guard point will absorb the hit but the fireball will whiff, of fhcf A, C and AC will absorb the hit but the fireball itself will be blocked)
Mr Karate (623A is the only move I could find that beat it)
Iori (623A and 623AC and hcf AC, EX maiden masher as well)
Mature (623AC allows for escape)
Elisabeth (hcbf AC, 214AC)
Duo Lon (236BD allows for escape)
Shen (CABC)
Kim (d~u+BD)
Tested everything but Raiden's 30~s drop kick.
King (236236A or AC)
Yuri (623A)
Kula (623C, 623AC)- Is her C crow bite really faster than her A? Probably the strangest thing I found out during this testing.
Athena (hcf+A and hcf+C, AC is too fast. hcbx2A and EX also work)
Chin (hcb+B, hcb+BD)
Clark (he can hcf+B it but you can jump out)
Leona (d~u+AC)
Let me know if you guys find any other escapes or if my information is erroneous, thanks.
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Kula's C crow bite hits on the first frame as far as I know.
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Are there any mixups with K' that I should be using regularly? I was reading through the thread, and I couldn't really find a definite answer.
I'm gettiing a little bit frustrated in my K' play, mainly because I find that I'm getting too predictable. Eventually I realized that I don't have a lot of, if any, mixups. I do have frame traps, but my list of traps only go so far and the people I play with already recognize them properly and react accordingly depending on character. I honestly have no clue how what mixups K' has, and I've been in a slump in trying to find some. I find myself in the training room just staring at K' doing nothing lol.
Right now, my best character I feel is Mature, and that's because people have a lot of trouble predicting my play and movements. I honestly want my K' to be stronger than my Mature. I have a lot of pride in playing K', even going as far as to say that I want to be known for having a solid K' instead of a solid Mature. So if anyone can help me in learning mixups with K', I would really appreciate it!
~FM Sway
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His mix up game is pretty weak, but his pressure is much better. The best advice I can give is to keep hop pressure while alternating high and low attacks to keep your opponent guessing. Sneaking in throws will help. In the corner is pretty much where you will toy with your opponent. Other than that try to read your opponent's actions and act accordingly. Do not abuse Ein Trigger in your pressure since it leaves you at -5 (-3 for second shoot and -7 or -6 for shell). Although your EX Trigger alone is +11 and does great guard damage. Perhaps you already know all this.
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Not something I dabble with, but his teleport can be used once or twice to confuse an opponent. It also can be used after an air reset to get behind the opponent.
An EX Blackout can get behind an opponent if you cancel it quickly from a anti-air st.A.
You can use it in between strings, especially EX Blackout, to get behind an opponent or test an opponents reaction.
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I'll probably use the EX teleport every now and then. But it definitely feels like that's a mixup that'll only work once or twice a set.
Some things I feel I should be using more often are K's st.;a and st.;b. Honestly, all I use for his st.;a is to stuff hops, and his st.;b I think I should use more often because it offers movement. I'm beginning to feel like K', when outside of the corner, is more of a reactionary character. Somehow I don't feel comfortable getting in an opponent's face outside of the corner, and I wonder if it that's really K's game or I just lack proper pressure tactics to stay in their face. Maybe my block strings aren't too tight? Cause whenever I do some kind of block string, ending with Eins Trigger, I swear my opponents keep pressing buttons or mash specials out, and if I block, I'm just losing the pressure I worked so hard just to get.
Is Trigger to Blackout a viable mixup outside of the corner? I really tend to not use Blackout at all because it's so unsafe.
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Anybody really mess around with the guard point on EX Minutes Spike? It can be useful against certain frametraps and long range pokes. With 50% Drive, you get some decent damage afterwards, along with nearly full screen corner carry. If you have another stock ready, you can do about 43% damage midscreen and nearly 50% in the corner.
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Anybody really mess around with the guard point on EX Minutes Spike? It can be useful against certain frametraps and long range pokes. With 50% Drive, you get some decent damage afterwards, along with nearly full screen corner carry. If you have another stock ready, you can do about 43% damage midscreen and nearly 50% in the corner.
I have been trying to use it, but the range for the guard point is really small. I am having trouble pinpointing when it starts and ends so it's hard to decide where it works.
So far, a frame trap where you're both left at 0 frames, but they're about to do a faster move is an idea there. But the timing's tight.
For example, Joe's corner trap st.A, f+B hcf+A is very tight and it allows him to recover before you can do anything. K' EX Minute spike will absorb the Hurricane and hit Joe.
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EX Minute Spike's Guard Point is almost NEVER use of that it's just too hard to use since it's only for a frame or two for 1 Guard Point
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Yeah, I noticed the guard point was extremely short, but in certain situations you can sort of use it as an option select. Perform the motion and hold back, then press the buttons with the correct timing against certain frametraps where you can react to the attack you want to counter. Example would be against Kyo when cornered, one of the locals likes to run up and do a point blank close ;c followed by a standing ;d , which I have trouble with. But you can counter this trap on reaction with EX Minutes Spike, provided your timing is good.
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hello, i am new to the forum and just had a quick question.
i am having issues connecting a 2nd Tk ex minute spike in trial 5. i can get it like once out of 50 tries, but i'm never paying attention when i do land it. i've watched the demo video countless times and have seen combo videos where the player will do like 4 of them in a row , even watched the players hands executing the trials from the vesper arcade video.
just wondering if maybe there is a trick to landing this that i'm not seeing.
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hello, i am new to the forum and just had a quick question.
i am having issues connecting a 2nd Tk ex minute spike in trial 5. i can get it like once out of 50 tries, but i'm never paying attention when i do land it. i've watched the demo video countless times and have seen combo videos where the player will do like 4 of them in a row , even watched the players hands executing the trials from the vesper arcade video.
just wondering if maybe there is a trick to landing this that i'm not seeing.
You could probably buffer the motion and press the button late. See, the game holds inputs for a while so you can do the input and press the button for the move to come out. It's a bit tricky, but give it a shot.
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the dummy always falls out after the standing A i buffer in the first minute spike super early and make sure i hold up back, i could just post a video fo what i'm doing maybe that will help.
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the dummy always falls out after the standing A i buffer in the first minute spike super early and make sure i hold up back, i could just post a video fo what i'm doing maybe that will help.
I just did it. If you're trying to TK it off of a st.A, the timing's not super strict. What helps me is to slowly do the qcb, ub motion and press B+D as soon as K' retracts his hand from st.A.
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There is another option, you can try doing ;dn ;db ;bk ;bk+ ;b ;d instead of ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub+ ;b ;d
I find it easier to do the first one, just do it after K' hits the opponent with ;a and input the command, you should have enough time to do it.
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There is another option, you can try doing ;dn ;db ;bk ;bk+ ;b ;d instead of ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub+ ;b ;d
I find it easier to do the first one, just do it after K' hits the opponent with ;a and input the command, you should have enough time to do it.
Speaking of which, what's the practicality of doing a TKed EX Air Minute Spike off of a st.A in the corner? HD bypass?
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i have defeated this stupid trail. thanks for the help guys, turns out i was tk'ing the second minute spike too fast causing it to just be a normal grounded one.
the practicality is probably something to that extent of what you said, but i wasn't going to let it beat me, i want to be able to do everything k' can do.
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There is another option, you can try doing ;dn ;db ;bk ;bk+ ;b ;d instead of ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub+ ;b ;d
I find it easier to do the first one, just do it after K' hits the opponent with ;a and input the command, you should have enough time to do it.
Speaking of which, what's the practicality of doing a TKed EX Air Minute Spike off of a st.A in the corner? HD bypass?
Extend combos and make it look fancy? If you are going to HD Bypass and want to do a NeoMAX you will end up doing 4 bars in the end most of the time, unless you have the timing for dp > qcf+HP down then you can do it with 3 bars. Because as you know in a HD combo the qcf+HP needs to hit the opponent quite low and if you succeed you just do f+HK and then NeoMAX.
I find it easier to just do this combo as HD Bypass:
;uf ;c or ;d > ;dn ;b x2 > ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a > ;fd ;d > ;uf + (;b ;c ;d) (air CD HD Bypass) > EX Super > NeoMax
that does around 850 damage and is easy to do IMO.
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There is another option, you can try doing ;dn ;db ;bk ;bk+ ;b ;d instead of ;dn ;db ;bk ;ub+ ;b ;d
I find it easier to do the first one, just do it after K' hits the opponent with ;a and input the command, you should have enough time to do it.
Speaking of which, what's the practicality of doing a TKed EX Air Minute Spike off of a st.A in the corner? HD bypass?
Extend combos and make it look fancy? If you are going to HD Bypass and want to do a NeoMAX you will end up doing 4 bars in the end most of the time, unless you have the timing for dp > qcf+HP down then you can do it with 3 bars. Because as you know in a HD combo the qcf+HP needs to hit the opponent quite low and if you succeed you just do f+HK and then NeoMAX.
I find it easier to just do this combo as HD Bypass:
;uf ;c or ;d > ;dn ;b x2 > ;dn ;df ;fd+ ;a > ;fd ;d > ;uf + (;b ;c ;d) (air CD HD Bypass) > EX Super > NeoMax
that does around 850 damage and is easy to do IMO.
That's not a bad idea. I got the timing for the dp into fireball cancel in HD mode. Outside of HD mode, it's hard.
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Man... after playing some sets with my friend, I just wish K instant slide was safe on block. I mean, that would help his game a lot! But even on max distance is unsafe. =/
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If it was safe then that would make it too good. But I think its lame that it is -10 on block.
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It's safe on block if you space it by the tip of the slide
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It is still -5 on block if you hit with the tip.
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It is still -5 on block if you hit with the tip.
It's pretty pointless even if it's -5 on block if you hit the tip. The issue is that you're too far away to punish with a normal to go into full combo. Aside from some far normals, it's not going to kill you to do it at the ideal distance. If spaced properly, you could still apply pressure.
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It is still -5 on block if you hit with the tip.
really? well I'm lucky that no one punish me for it yet
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It is still -5 on block if you hit with the tip.
It's pretty pointless even if it's -5 on block if you hit the tip. The issue is that you're too far away to punish with a normal to go into full combo. Aside from some far normals, it's not going to kill you to do it at the ideal distance. If spaced properly, you could still apply pressure.
Ive been punished by some characters, maybe some players do not realize that you are unsafe.
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Even if they don't realize you're unsafe, what can they punish you with? You're in far normal range. Aside from maybe some super punishes (like Andy's Zaineken), it's not practical to punish it like that.
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Even if they don't realize you're unsafe, what can they punish you with? You're in far normal range. Aside from maybe some super punishes (like Andy's Zaineken), it's not practical to punish it like that.
A fast reversal is what Ive been hit with. Other than that nothing.
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Even if they don't realize you're unsafe, what can they punish you with? You're in far normal range. Aside from maybe some super punishes (like Andy's Zaineken), it's not practical to punish it like that.
A fast reversal is what Ive been hit with. Other than that nothing.
Yup, I play against a Kim, he just needs to do EX Flash Kick. =/
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I know Iori can punish it with his EX DP, I belive it has 3 frames of start up.
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Right, all of that uses one meter. Just like Andy's Zaineken. You can punish it with meter-based moves or supers, but it has to be on-point and you have to react to it immediately.
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Hey I have a feeling this question has been asked before and I don't want to search through the pages again but What's K's Dash frametrap? Like something to stop Ralf or Iori pressing buttons? Plus I realized that I don't have any frametrap set up in general with my characters
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Right, all of that uses one meter. Just like Andy's Zaineken. You can punish it with meter-based moves or supers, but it has to be on-point and you have to react to it immediately.
Yes, but unless you have precise reaction or you put your opponent is specific situations and you have the timing for the 2nd input right, you will end up not hitting the opponent with the tip. Leading to a huge damage and not need to use an EX or Super.
I wish that no matter the situation it was always safe, of course only if the first hit doesn't "HIT", just the Slide hits. If the aerial kick hits, then the slide will be unsafe. I don't expect it to be super safe, at least as safe as Andy elbow hit, which can be punished with certain normals, but depends the character.
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I just learned about Positive Edge and it helps a lot when doing instant slide:
;dn ;db ;bk + ;k > ;dn ;db ;bk + (HOLD ;k)
That makes it way easier, just input the 2 motions fast and hold the 2nd K.
Tried DP to ;dn ;df ;fd +HP, but haven't figure out how to use Positive Edge in that cancelation.
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It could! My friend, Rod, does that a lot. I just haven't mastered it so I don't use it. It's a little difficult for me to find the right window to press the button.
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I think this only works in KoFXIII because of the frame window for something that I can't quite remember. lol I just remember reading that holding the button down allows the move to come out on the first possible frame, which was good for reversals.
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I'm totally gonna practice and learn how to make use of this.
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It does in fact make instant Narrow Spikes much easier. Haven't really found a way to make the Crow Bites -> Trigger Drive Cancel easier with this method, though.
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It does in fact make instant Narrow Spikes much easier. Haven't really found a way to make the Crow Bites -> Trigger Drive Cancel easier with this method, though.
The motion is more the problem than the button pressing. If you do a motion like ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd than it probably might work. But the actual motions for that cancel are the big problem.
What I've had success doing is ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;df and then do qcf. Sometimes, I don't even register the full hcb and it still works. I dunno why it works, but it does.
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From my understanding as long as ;fd ;db ;fd registers you will get Crow Bite>C Trigger
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Yep, I posted the possible shortcuts on here some time ago, basically the game accepts either ;dn or ;db for the second input and either ;df or ;fd for the final input. This works for any DP motion in the game, which is useful for characters who have overlapping commands for their DMs.
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Since I am not very consistent at it yet, what I use as substitute for Crow bite>Trigger is Narrow Spike>Trigger on a standing opponent.
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KnightKinetik just posted some interesting shortcut for doing DP > qcf for many characters outside HD that works.
You only need to press ;a+ ;c a bit after inputing his DP and you will get his fireball. Unfortunately you only get the LP version, which doesn't hit. =/
If you input ;a+ ;c right after his DP, you can get his EX DP, so be careful.
But if you press ;a+ ;b or ;c+ ;b after DP, you will get his LK teleport and if you press ;c+ ;d or ;a+ ;d you get his HK teleport.
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KnightKinetik just posted some interesting shortcut for doing DP > qcf for many characters outside HD that works.
You only need to press ;a+ ;c a bit after inputing his DP and you will get his fireball. Unfortunately you only get the LP version, which doesn't hit. =/
f.LK follow will connect however (at least in the corner), but f.HK does not.
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How good would you guys say is his ex blackout for escaping pressure? Comparable to Athena or Duolon's?
The guard point frames on his ex spike are brutal, you pretty much need parry timing.
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I mainly use it to get out of the corner, it has decent invincibility.
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How good would you guys say is his ex blackout for escaping pressure? Comparable to Athena or Duolon's?
The guard point frames on his ex spike are brutal, you pretty much need parry timing.
To get out of the corner I prefer to do his qcfx2+P super, puts you really far away and you can do it out of a blocked DP. Only few characters can really punish you out of this.
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How good would you guys say is his ex blackout for escaping pressure? Comparable to Athena or Duolon's?
The guard point frames on his ex spike are brutal, you pretty much need parry timing.
To get out of the corner I prefer to do his qcfx2+P super, puts you really far away and you can do it out of a blocked DP. Only few characters can really punish you out of this.
Just be careful not to get counter hit.
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The only problem is if someone presses buttons on your wake-up, they will poke you out of it.
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All options have a risk, there is a safe option unfortunately. You can also just block and do a throwback, in the end you will use meter.
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Thanks guys.
BTW why does the wiki say qcf qcf+P super goes through fireballs? I tried it against King's yesterday and at no point did it seem to have any form of invincibility on it.
All options have a risk, there is a safe option unfortunately. You can also just block and do a throwback, in the end you will use meter.
ex blackout = tons of invincibility
heat drive = zero invincibility
No idea why someone would pick the latter over the former to escape pressure.
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Thanks guys.
BTW why does the wiki say qcf qcf+P super goes through fireballs? I tried it against King's yesterday and at no point did it seem to have any form of invincibility on it.
All options have a risk, there is a safe option unfortunately. You can also just block and do a throwback, in the end you will use meter.
ex blackout = tons of invincibility
heat drive = zero invincibility
No idea why someone would pick the latter over the former to escape pressure.
Maybe they meant qcf hcb>P?
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Maybe they meant qcf hcb>P?
They mention it for both.
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Maybe they meant qcf hcb>P?
They mention it for both.
interesting...
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Hey guys I changed it...I can't believe that error has been sitting there for so long , thanks for catching it.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=K%27_%28XIII%29#Desperation_Moves (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=K%27_%28XIII%29#Desperation_Moves)
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I dunno how I missed that.
In any case, I've been playing with black out a little more. I'm starting to use it more when my opponent is least expecting it, but I'm still pretty afraid to use it for fear of a full combo.
However, there's uses outside of it. A person on SRK mentioned his idea of how K' plays and gains meter. He stated that K' as a zoner gains very little meter unless the person is haphazardly attacking him. I feel like I agree. He needs to be up close and in people's faces. His normals aren't very dangerous if they're telegraphed.
Although it's a safejump setup, I think doing A ein trigger into black out is better. Checking the meter usage, you gain just a little meter from hitting them with a fireball. Closer to the corner, hitting someone with a fireball could lead to a full combo, but midscreen, you don't gain any full combo from hitting someone with a fireball.
With the teleport, you can push people with the D teleport really close or get a guaranteed cross-up setup from the teleport. You're always able to be close enough to keep the pressure going where as the fireball might miss, you lose positioning, you lose your safe jump set up, and your opponent is too far away to do anything. You're back to zoning and remember, he's not gaining meter that way.
What do you think? Is it a better idea to use the black out derivative after ein trigger instead of the fireball to push people to the corner?
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Using blackout is very risky, it is very easy to see it coming and you are vulnerable throughout the animation (unless it is the EX version) but you guys already know that. The times Ive used it the way you mentioned, Ive been lucky enough to get my opponent to commit to my pressure like that. What I do use Trigger > Blackout is to switch my position when zoning my opponent. A lot of K' players like to throw Trigger by itself from across the screen with the occasional shoot and shell. Many times players will telegraph it and jump over and punish. By using trigger > blackout you will keep your opponent guessing on your position and avoid jump in attacks.
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A couple of K' combos by bubblan:
http://youtu.be/0UURY_54OUU (http://youtu.be/0UURY_54OUU)
http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0 (http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0)
http://youtu.be/8i_mqtY3BCo (http://youtu.be/8i_mqtY3BCo)
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Cool stuff, similar to some of the stuff I've been working on, albeit my ideas aren't as complex/meter heavy. Though I do have to say, it's pretty easy to do high damage starting off of CH j.CD in the corner. I'm still working on just regular j.CD hit, since I think it's a really good poke for K' and he gets way more damage off of it than he deserves.
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A couple of K' combos by bubblan:
http://youtu.be/0UURY_54OUU (http://youtu.be/0UURY_54OUU)
http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0 (http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0)
http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0 (http://youtu.be/yBWaU0QXwz0)
The 8CD starter is cool, but the 6A afterwards is not cool in an actual match, might as well just 2149+ ;b ;c then air 214 ;b ;d to get something going. Cool concept though.
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So my buddy just got some new stream gear and we decided to test it with a good 1-2 hours of matches. I came in with the intent of putting K' on point cause I was told my K' was my weakest character. Bar the first 3-4 matches, I put K' on point, and I'd really like some critiques about my K' play and just my play in general.
http://www.twitch.tv/soulslayerwind/b/329725444 (http://www.twitch.tv/soulslayerwind/b/329725444)
First off the bat, some things to know:
- Don't mind the missed HD combos. For some reason that day, the neomax refused to come out. I -used- to just do 2 hcbs just so I can be precise on the inputs, till I figured out I could just do 2 360 motions and it'll come out. Just didn't happen that day :(
- I'm still working on the dp to trigger drive cancel outside of HD mode. I will fully admit that I still suck at doing hcb-f to qcf.
Questions:
- How is my general movement with K'? With my characters in general?
- Any details I can do to improve my gameplay outside of just "learn better combos?"
- Are my combos optimal?
- Any flaws in my gameplay in a fundamental standpoint?
Thanks for helping me guys!
P.S: Please don't mind the sound problems. We just got it that day and I was having trouble setting it up. Not too good on the computer knowledge.
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Okay, so I took a look at about 3 matches and I noticed something I consistently have a problem with too.
You're incredibly stingy with your meter. With the changes made to K, you can't do that, you have to let it rip.
Also, off a jump in, unless you're intending to use some meter, you're intending to cross up, or you're intending for them to block, why are you doing d.B off a jump-in? You should know, as many times as you've jumped in on someone, that doing d.B into Ein Trigger (A), into second shoot won't work. You have to use EX meter to make it combo. And a lot of the time you did have the meter when you poke him. Since K' can HD bypass off a normal if the opponent is high enough, you can always go to HD mode (If you really want to) when you get that corner carry combo off.
Your opponent seemed to play a lot of grappler characters. If you're not comfortable using alternate guard, you should sniff for a reversal. The light version is a lot less punishable with the same invulnerability you need. A pro-tip against Clark is you can try to throw them on wake-up and if he did the guardpoint grab, buffer in your A or C dp to hit him out of it. Characters like Daimon and Takuma have delayed grabs they can do if they stagger them on your wake up. You can use K' Chain Drive DM to reversal it (though it's risky) because the move is throw invulnerable, you can't be thrown while doing it.
Fundamentally speaking, your ground game has to diversify. You run up and throw low B's or jump (which kind of ends your ground game). I also know how hard it is to do something different with K', trust me, but if you throw out different normals like d.A or do a short into a sweep, maybe even d.C, that makes a difference. They won't figure you out and maybe even guard cancel out of your blockstrings. Mix it up whenever you can. And work on those jump-ins! Hitting them a little too high!
You're doing okay and you're playing patient, that's good! You just have to work on capitalizing on the small windows of opportunity K' can provide for bigger damage/better positioning.
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Okay, so I took a look at about 3 matches and I noticed something I consistently have a problem with too.
You're incredibly stingy with your meter. With the changes made to K, you can't do that, you have to let it rip.
Also, off a jump in, unless you're intending to use some meter, you're intending to cross up, or you're intending for them to block, why are you doing d.B off a jump-in? You should know, as many times as you've jumped in on someone, that doing d.B into Ein Trigger (A), into second shoot won't work. You have to use EX meter to make it combo. And a lot of the time you did have the meter when you poke him. Since K' can HD bypass off a normal if the opponent is high enough, you can always go to HD mode (If you really want to) when you get that corner carry combo off.
Your opponent seemed to play a lot of grappler characters. If you're not comfortable using alternate guard, you should sniff for a reversal. The light version is a lot less punishable with the same invulnerability you need. A pro-tip against Clark is you can try to throw them on wake-up and if he did the guardpoint grab, buffer in your A or C dp to hit him out of it. Characters like Daimon and Takuma have delayed grabs they can do if they stagger them on your wake up. You can use K' Chain Drive DM to reversal it (though it's risky) because the move is throw invulnerable, you can't be thrown while doing it.
Fundamentally speaking, your ground game has to diversify. You run up and throw low B's or jump (which kind of ends your ground game). I also know how hard it is to do something different with K', trust me, but if you throw out different normals like d.A or do a short into a sweep, maybe even d.C, that makes a difference. They won't figure you out and maybe even guard cancel out of your blockstrings. Mix it up whenever you can. And work on those jump-ins! Hitting them a little too high!
You're doing okay and you're playing patient, that's good! You just have to work on capitalizing on the small windows of opportunity K' can provide for bigger damage/better positioning.
Thank you for the advice!
While I have played KOF for a long time (nothing competitive, just love the series, but now I'm really into tournaments), I'm in that SF state of mind when it comes to meter management. One aspect I seem to forget is how much meter you get back just from defending alone, and because of that I notice I end up with a fully loaded number of stocks and don't use them.
I agree 100% about my ground game, though I never really looked at it as "when you hop your ground game kinda ends," which makes a lot of sense. I notice when I'm watching my matches that I tend to be in the air too much, and sometimes, I even wind up missing the opponent completely on a crossup and/or (on a lot of occasions) I wind up in the corner. God, there's a few times in that video where I get out of the corner successfully with an EX Blackout and then I hop... right back into the corner. *facepalm*
A lot of people have said that my strings are very predictable, and I did post here in this thread before that I was very unsure what else to do to increase K's mixups, and I hit a roadblock. But I think I'll take this time now (since there's not a lot of majors or KOF tournaments going on around here in the NJ/NYC area for now) to begin experimenting on new things during matches. Sometimes I'm so intent on winning that I learn nothing, but what's the point of going to a session if I don't learn anything, right? I'll definitely try some new things.
My friend Dave is very big on grapplers in KOF, and I think it's a good thing, because I'm noticing a huge problem when it comes to grapplers like Clark. I find it really difficult to escape his ambiguous roll on wakeup right after he gets a grab on me, and I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. My mindset when it comes to that roll mixup is pretty much to guess; hop, backdash, block, or even reversal, because he does the roll very meaty, as he should.
I tend to use alternate guard, but if you notice, he doesn't seem to stagger his string when it comes to Clark; he likes to punish with the throw or just suddenly use that command dash and boom. As for Takuma, he was really command grab heavy, and I was going to ask: For how long can you alternate guard? He seems to wait a while after a string to bust that thing out, haha.
Thanks a lot for helping me! It really helps when I get other people's opinion of my gameplay, so thank you!
Anyone else is also welcome to critique. Let it rip!
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Yeah, I often find myself trying to do something new only to slip back into the groove. Like I said, all the things you do, I know I do as well! You just have to force that change so you can get in.
Just keep moving forward, every little bit helps.
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I've been playing around with K' in training mode for a few hours and I've noticed that there's some viability with the Heat Drive combo extender.
My hypothesis is that you cannot do EX Air Minute spike after Heat drive. I noticed this after about 20 attempts of trying to do EX Air Minute spikes and failing every single one. I used the same timing and same method for a regular Air Minute spike and it did work every time.
So here's a truth: After Heat Drive, you can only do regular Air Minute spike
And another: You cannot HD bypass Air minute spike using the qcb, b method.
Timing: Right after the body hits the floor, your window is open to do it. The body has to hit the floor, don't do it before. If he had that, that'd be pretty broke because he could HD bypass EX/Air Minute spike into combo for free or get a free combo from his super which would REALLY put him over the top.
If someone can do a TKed air minute spike after Heat Drive and make it HD bypass, K' might really be nutty.
After messing with qcb, b shortcut to do air minute spikes, I felt comfortable with it and could do the combo easily. This is very useful because of the viability of carrying someone to the corner and letting loose all if not most of your meter on someone. Even if we have to spend meter and drive instead of going into HD, it's still a lot of damage for mostly stock use and capitalizes on jump-ins that won't do conventional non-meter combos.
Here's what I could come up with as midscreen BnBs depending on meter:
Midscreen (From 1P start position): 1 meter
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K = 382 dmg
2 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, dp+A = 431 dmg (DP+C ender)=512
*Note: If you do dp+A, it does less damage, but you have a chance to go for a throw if they tech the soft knockdown which would do more than the DP+C
3 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, qcf,hcb+P = 589 dmg
*Note: HKD plus the last hit does 70 dmg unscaled, have to do the super as fast as possible to get it to hit.
4 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, d.C, qcf,hcb+AC, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K = 698 dmg
*Note: Pay attention to see if they even try to tech because that's a free grab!
Take note, these are all midscreen combos and possible whether you screw up your spacing to get a no meter combo or not. The first combo does MORE damage than your regular 1 meter BnB and gives less meter. Something to think about. These work best APPROACHING the corner. At the end of Heat Drive, you've got to end up at the corner to do the rest. Trying out things to see what's plausible afterwards.
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Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!
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Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!
There are plenty of ways to do this.
If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.
You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.
The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.
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Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!
There are plenty of ways to do this.
If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.
You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.
The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.
Would the slide pretty much be akin to Plinking that's used in SF games, at least when you determine how fast you have to slide from A to C?
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Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!
There are plenty of ways to do this.
If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.
You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.
The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.
Thanks. I am using the hcb,f+p for the cancel and the slide in is pretty strict not like Saiki's slide in so I guess I will stick with the hcb,f+p.
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A lot of the people I asked said KOF doesn't have plinking and shunned me for thinking of the idea, but I figure the way people plink can work the same in KOF, just that the mechanic isn't in the game.
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Dear Fullmetal, I have to ask this question because it's killing me
but were you a marth player in the south for melee?
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Dear Fullmetal, I have to ask this question because it's killing me
but were you a marth player in the south for melee?
lol no, sorry. I'm a player in the NY/NJ area, gamertag is FM Sway. Though a good portion of my friends are melee players, esp considering the area.
And yeah, wouldn't plinking actually do well when it comes to the throw tech Option Select? Like you plink C and D while blocking back to compensate for both throw attempts?
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I'd think so too. I'm sure there are other uses for tapping like that, but with K', I'm not so sure.
I was going over some of my footage as well as the Aftershock footage. I noticed something that might be useful to try (Or atleast incorporate) into our gameplay. During a lot of the matches, TDO managed to do d.B, recover, and throw a opponent. I can assume he'd tricked the opponent into blocking low or attempted to counter poke, but grabbed the opponent in the first frame possible.
This is pretty good because K' has a d.B that's very threatening. You really want to block low or reversal. I think if you get an opponent down and fake them out, you could hold back C or D. If they reversal you block. If they don't, you can grab.
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I was playing around in training mode and found that K' has a cross up that can hit standing opponents. If they're ducking, it goes right over them, but you'll jump fairly far away so getting punished isn't a problem.
The way its done is to get a point blank d.B or do it a jump attack into D.B. You immediately hyper hop forward and press C/B/or A just as you get off the ground. The timing for it is pretty strict, but you manage to cross the opponent up.
The problem is that you can't do a standing normal after it. You can cancel the jump attack immediately into air minute spike though.
Example of use: You're trying to crack someone open, but they constantly alternate their guard when they see you jump so scoring conventional hop cross ups won't work (Even if they stand, d.B x2, jump, j.C is still a cross up). With this, you can poke them in the air with a cross up and score a knockdown from the minute spike or hop over the other side to deal damage. I've tried to use Kyo's st.C after being hit with this cross up, but forcing K' to do st.C as quickly as I can. Hitstun and Blockstun wear out more quickly than it looks, but it's difficult to punish if you don't know the exact timing.
So I guess it's kind of like a frame trap? I'm not sure.
I've tried blocking it, but I'd have to try it on someone to see how effective it is.
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Man been a while since I posted here, anyways I was reading your Mid Screen BnB combos Reiki, but I think I found a good Mid screen combo with no Drive Cancel. Its basically one of my corner combos of my video, but with the same startup as yours and it can be done almost fullscreen, it just requires good timing and distance.
Mid Screen - 2 Stock
;uf ;c > ;c (1 Hit) > ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a > ;fd + ;d > (;dn ;db ;bk + ;d) x2 > ;a (Resets) > ;dn ;df ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a ;c > Wait > ;dn ;db ;bk ;bk + ;b = 503 DMG
Its not that hard to pull, ones you have the timing and the distance its easy. If you are really good, you can do a Air HDBypass Minute Spike after s.A and do an HD Combo off it. I managed to pull it out, but its hard, maybe can do it only 10% of the time the HD combo.
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So you're making the minute spike whiff and then going into EX Chain Drive?
EDIT: Trying it out, that stand after minute spike is pretty hard to land. Do you know what I can do to time the reset or does it matter how fast I do Minute spike?
So far, I've gotten one rep in out of like five tries.
EDIT x2: I managed to get a pretty good rhythm going, I finally pinpointed where I need to do the combo. So far, the range on this is very surprising and I'm starting to like it more and more as a no-meter BNB. In the corner too, you can do d.A for an easier time at nailing the combo.
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How does EX Chain Drive combo from the stand A after Minute Spike? I don't recall Chain Drive having anywhere juggle properties but correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm trying to rework my neutral game with K' and I was trying to compare some data on A and C Ein's Trigger but the frame data chart doesn't have the information I'm looking for. The wiki says that A Ein Trigger comes out faster than C Ein Trigger but the frame data says their start ups are the same (9 frames). It also doesn't list what the recovery frames are for both. When I was testing the two it appeared the A version recovered faster but I want to double check with other people on this.
Personally, I felt like the A version was better for whiffing; in order to get people to jump so you can react with either DP or the Second Shell follow up. I know the C version of Second Shell has a larger hitbox but the slower start up usually ended up with me getting hit before I could properly anti-air.
I only like the C Version of Ein Trigger when it comes to match ups against zoning characters. The longer active frames of Ein Trigger makes it easier to win fireball wars and get them to start jumping into AA's faster.
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EX Chain Drive has anywhere juggle properties.
If you do minute spike into a narrow spike whiff, you're close enough to do st.A. St.A is special/super cancellable so you can quickly cancel it into EX Chain Drive which then allows you to juggle your opponent into the attack.
In terms of neutral game, A version recovers much faster. C version is active much longer. You can test this by how long it takes the flame to go away when neutralizing a fireball. You can be much more lax with doing C version Ein Trigger than A when it comes to that.
I also feel like it's better in a poke combo when you're trying to zone. Getting a knockdown is great, but when you're trying to play safe and poke people, C version Ein Trigger guarantees that you will get that fireball follow up in.
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So you're making the minute spike whiff and then going into EX Chain Drive?
EDIT: Trying it out, that stand after minute spike is pretty hard to land. Do you know what I can do to time the reset or does it matter how fast I do Minute spike?
So far, I've gotten one rep in out of like five tries.
EDIT x2: I managed to get a pretty good rhythm going, I finally pinpointed where I need to do the combo. So far, the range on this is very surprising and I'm starting to like it more and more as a no-meter BNB. In the corner too, you can do d.A for an easier time at nailing the combo.
What I notice its that its easier to hit s.A after doing HK ver of Minute Spike instead of doing LK ver. That is why I wrote ;d instead of ;b. Also do Minute Spike slide just after hit, you need to hit the character the highest you can, so just do everything fast and just time s.A. In the Corner you can do c. HP to EX Chain if you want, is harder, but does like 20 to 30 points more of damage.
I learned about this while I was doing my combo video, but forgot to post it and then other games came, so yeah... time flew. But I don't tend to do it often, because its hard to land j.C > s.C, its easier for me to land j.C > c.Bx2. And as I said, if you are really good, you can HD Bypass Air Minute Spike after s.A to HDCombo or cancel s.A to HD and almost immediately do EX Chain to NeoMax. Both hard to do, but possible, still damn hard IMO.
The situations to EX Chain I wrote are all in my Combo video, except the HD Combos/HDBypass, since the combo video was about 1 HD Bar max usage and maximizing damage with that limit.
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Hmm...weird, it's harder to do the combo starting with c.B xx qcf+A, f+D than it is with s.C xx qcf+A, f+D. It's like the the s.C starter lets them get launched higher than with c.B. It's still doable with c.B but the timing seems harder. I can do the s.C starter into HD bypass pretty easily actually.
I think what helps is if you button hold the minute spike so you get it out at the first possible frame then quickly cancel into the slide whiff then late s.A into the rest.
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^ c.B push the opponent away, while s.C doesn't, that is why it doesn't work that well. Unless you are close to the corner, then you can start with c.B. Also if c.B is on point blank, which is hard to happen in a real match, specially in midscreen.
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Yeah, the first hit of st.C has no pushback. Also, KaoZ, you should really give j.C, st.C a chance! I know how you feel, but I'm gradually trying it out in matches and I feel like I'm doing well with it.
I'm also feeling ballsy sometimes and sneak in a narrow spike after doing st.C, f+A if someone tends to block a lot.
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So, was practicing the combo and also the HD variation. The farthest I could stick it without it dropping was about half-screen or a little past it. Any farther away and the HD Bypass after st.A into EX air minute spike won't hit.
But it's pretty good damage and useful after getting someone into the corner. I managed 716 with two bars, just finishing the combo with Chain Drive.
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I feel like I'm the only person posting stuff up here! :-(
Anyway, this might be useful tool for people who are trying to learn how to do dp+A into qcf+C. Whatever method you choose to do doesn't matter, but the timing for it is tough as well as getting it consistently.
Here's something you can try in training mode, be sure to set infinite stock and drive: Start off by popping them up anyway you like. Do the combo once:
E.G: st.C, qcf+A, qcb+D, qcb+D (Whiff), dp+A [DC], qcf+C, f+D...
After you pop them up, do f+A as early as you possibly can. Immediately after, do EX Minute spike and cancel into EX Narrow Spike. Do the dp+A, qcf+C as quickly as possible.
In training mode, this is a loop. You can do this as long as you want because your drive and stock will replenish by the end of the loop. See how long you can go without dropping the loop. On my right side, I can do it about 3 times before I drop it. I can't do it approaching the left at all. So that shows I have to practice harder.
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Well I haven't spend that much time on KOF13, life + lots of Games (on Vita now). I wish KOFXIII was on Vita, that would me awesome!
But I will try to see what else I can find with K, its hard to come up with new stuff when we have found most of it. There might still be some things there, but is hard to find them.
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I feel like I'm the only person posting stuff up here! :-(
Anyway, this might be useful tool for people who are trying to learn how to do dp+A into qcf+C. Whatever method you choose to do doesn't matter, but the timing for it is tough as well as getting
Here's something you can try in training mode, be sure to set infinite stock and drive: Start off by popping them up anyway you like. Do the combo once:
E.G: st.C, qcf+A, qcb+D, qcb+D (Whiff), dp+A [DC], qcf+C, f+D...
After you pop them up, do f+A as early as you possibly can. Immediately after, do EX Minute spike and cancel into EX Narrow Spike. Do the dp+A, qcf+C as quickly as possible.
In training mode, this is a loop. You can do this as long as you want because your drive and stock will replenish by the end of the loop. See how long you can go without dropping the loop. On my right side, I can do it about 3 times before I drop it. I can't do it approaching the left at all. So that shows I have to practice harder.
question why waste meter doing that combo at all? There are many ways to practice that combo while maintaining drive and power gauge meter. If he is going to practice it he should practice it in an HD combo since that is the only place that it will actually be used.
Or he should practice the motion solo (dp>qcf) so he can get used to doing it without making Mistakes then entering it into a combo.
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Again, it's just a tool to practice the accuracy of your execution of this crucial piece of K' arsenal.
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Again, it's just a tool to practice the accuracy of your execution of this crucial piece of K' arsenal.
Again, so he should practice it solo to get the motion then start implementing it in combos. You don't start with combos that comes after you get the motions down.
Also K' isn't isn't very execution heavy not in the slightest. Every character requires accuracy or execution to some degree but k' isn't a character who absolutely requires you to be absolutely perfect with every motion or else you can't play him.
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Sometimes you have to learn how to improvise your combos since you're never hit it the same way as you would in training most of the time.
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I would say that K' requires a moderate amount of execution.
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Sometimes you have to learn how to improvise your combos since you're never hit it the same way as you would in training most of the time.
I want you to know his has nothing to do with the topic at hand sir.lol
Also sanctuary I don't see what makes him so hard to use. Nest kyo requires just as much if not more execution than k'.
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I just noticed that I type this in the wrong section. Fail.
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Sometimes you have to learn how to improvise your combos since you're never hit it the same way as you would in training most of the time.
I want you to know his has nothing to do with the topic at hand sir.lol
Also sanctuary I don't see what makes him so hard to use. Nest kyo requires just as much if not more execution than k'.
I never said he was hard to use.
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Looks like you can minimize push back by mashing cr.B, cr.B or cr.B, cr.A faster. This lets you combo both hits of C Eins Trigger>Second Shell anywhere on the screen.
Also, EX Narrow Spike is so damn good.
Too bad the guard point on EX Minute Spike is so tight that its pretty much useless :/
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AS | Reynald has been playing K' for a bit now and he came up with a new combo for him. It's a bit harder than the usual combos, but has full corner carry for half a drive.
j.C, st.C(1), f+A, qcb+B(x2), dp+A(1), [DC] qcf+C, f+D, run forward, qcb+K, qcb+K (whiff), dp+A = 411 dmg
You can relaunch an opponent with this drive cancel combo and carry them all the way to the corner using st.C, f+A. Again, it's a little bit more difficult than his other combos, but knowing you can run afrer dp+A, qcf+C off of Narrow Spike is good tech. Random hits can turn into really damaging launchers.
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AS | Reynald has been playing K' for a bit now and he came up with a new combo for him. It's a bit harder than the usual combos, but has full corner carry for half a drive.
j.C, st.C(1), f+A, qcb+B(x2), dp+A(1), [DC] qcf+C, f+D, run forward, qcb+K, qcb+K (whiff), dp+A = 411 dmg
You can relaunch an opponent with this drive cancel combo and carry them all the way to the corner using st.C, f+A. Again, it's a little bit more difficult than his other combos, but knowing you can run afrer dp+A, qcf+C off of Narrow Spike is good tech. Random hits can turn into really damaging launchers.
I'll try this on traning mode, I guess I have a lot to read in this thread, thank you guys.
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I haven't had much time at all to read this paticular thread but I was going to see if you guys can maybe help me out with your knowledge on couple of matchups. Just recently I had finally gotten me a new training partner and so far against him I seem to be lost in some matchups against Mature, Kim, Ralf and both Kyo's. I guess the first question would be how handle what seems to be the safe first or second rekka from Mature like for instance is it even punishable in anyway what so ever. I can ask the same thing for Kim's hangetsuzan's, Nests Kyo's rekka like special strings of all types. My next question would be for me to ask how you guys also approach each of the matchups because I can't seem to generate even a halfway decent offense against them unless I can manage to get them in the corner. Getting around projectiles has never been an issue, I guess what I'm asking is how to approach them safely in the non-projectile way when K's projectiles aren't doing then job. I guess that's the best way for me to describe my situation anything you guys can tell me would be much appreciated.
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I guess the first question would be how handle what seems to be the safe first or second rekka from Mature like for instance is it even punishable in anyway what so ever. I can ask the same thing for Kim's hangetsuzan's, Nests Kyo's rekka like special strings of all types.
Have you tested Mature's rekkas, Kim's Hangetsuzan's and Nests Kyo's rekkas strings in practice mode using the record function? That might help you find out how to deal with them:
KOFXIII Record mode tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-3OtPcl3zQ#ws)
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I have taken the time to use the record/playback features from the practice and I've discovered some ways to punish most of your said moves from the first attack of each rekka that and hangetsuzan of all kinds. Though they're and an absolute pain to be consistent with at the time. Thank you for the tip Desmond dispite me not having to watch your made tutorial but thanks for the reminder nevertheless. I did however to manage to discover with Mature's first rekka is punishable on block but I believe it's only that way at point blank range, that and only his st.b as a standalone move is that punish which can luckily link into a full hd combo but since there's no real hit confirm in that link I would have to say that it's likely a gamble not worth taking of course though in my opinion and noone has to share my thoughts on that in the least. So to progress on that matter further if at all possible despite me saying to st.b is the only punish K' has against that move I would like to hope that I can be proven wrong and that it is not K's only possible punish and that there may actually be perhaps a real punish combo for that move. Any new input would be greatly appreciated.
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Nothing really here. K' has d.B and if that whiffs, he literally has nothing else aside from st.B into HD bypass (or if you're good, HD activation off st.B into dash) that punishes far away.
If d.B does hit, you can link EX Ein Trigger and pop them up with the D follow up. You'll need to run forward, but that's full combo right there.
After the second rekkas though, you can sweep them. 2 meter means you can go into EX Chain drive after the sweep for free.
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I am having a very hard time with K' in the air lately. It made me realize I really have no clue what to do with K' when I make him jump in the air.
Also, what's is j.A useful? What about j.B? I feel like jumping B is a tool I should be using more.
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j.A is a good air to ground attack. It can cross up almost all of the cast. It's okay air-to-air, but it has short range a downforward angle of attack. So it's not a very good normal for air-to-air. It's also one of his fastest normals. You can cancel this into qcb+K in the air.
j.B is completely horizontal, but it also hits underneath K'. This is pretty good as an air-to-air because it sticks out, but it's still pretty short. For bigger characters like Maxima and Daimon, this is pretty easy and ambiguous as a cross up tool. Doesn't/rarely crosses up anyone else but big characters.
j.C is also like j.A, but slower and has more hitstun. It's a pretty good air-to-ground attack, but again it has very short range so it's not the kind of attack you air to air with. You can also cancel qcb+K in the air with this normal. Because it's slower, it's a little more difficult to time and correctly position cross ups with this normal. Hitstun's not EXCELLENT either, but it gets the job done.
j.D is probably K' best air-to-air normal. It hits horizontal and a little underneath him. It's much faster than his j.CD and covers a great deal of range in front of him. Using it at a spaced distance means you'll tag people before they even get near you. However, it has a very small vertical attack range. If it's too early, people can duck it, and you can get hit with low B's. You can cancel this to qcb+K in the air.
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j.A is a good air to ground attack. It can cross up almost all of the cast. It's okay air-to-air, but it has short range a downforward angle of attack. So it's not a very good normal for air-to-air. It's also one of his fastest normals. You can cancel this into qcb+K in the air.
j.B is completely horizontal, but it also hits underneath K'. This is pretty good as an air-to-air because it sticks out, but it's still pretty short. For bigger characters like Maxima and Daimon, this is pretty easy and ambiguous as a cross up tool. Doesn't/rarely crosses up anyone else but big characters.
j.C is also like j.A, but slower and has more hitstun. It's a pretty good air-to-ground attack, but again it has very short range so it's not the kind of attack you air to air with. You can also cancel qcb+K in the air with this normal. Because it's slower, it's a little more difficult to time and correctly position cross ups with this normal. Hitstun's not EXCELLENT either, but it gets the job done.
j.D is probably K' best air-to-air normal. It hits horizontal and a little underneath him. It's much faster than his j.CD and covers a great deal of range in front of him. Using it at a spaced distance means you'll tag people before they even get near you. However, it has a very small vertical attack range. If it's too early, people can duck it, and you can get hit with low B's. You can cancel this to qcb+K in the air.
I've been using this advice much more now, and I see some improvement in my game. BUT, I do have one huge problem lately.
I am having a LOT of trouble with characters who carry godlike j.CD attacks. My boy plays Takuma and he goes apesh*t with it, and sometimes it's overwhelming. To me if feels like Takuma's hop is quite low and it only just adds to the J.CD. What can K' do in those situations?
It feels like going air-to-air against characters with good j.CDs is just asking to get destroyed. I feel like only a good read and a very pre-emptive j.B or j.D can beat or at least trade, but man, if it's a counter hit, especially if it's Daimon, ugggh lol.
Can anyone also suggest a good frame trap I can use for K' in the corner? It could just be basic or super advanced, it's fine with me. I'm noticing that K' is more about spacing, and I'd like to be able to pressure with K' more.
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I struggle alot against people with pretty good j.CDs. Sometimes, it's better not to fight them in the air. Sometimes, it's better to just use your ground options.
First option should be to block. If it's the first time someone does a j.CD at you to get in range of you, you're pretty safe in blocking. Whatever they try, if you can't respond to it, blocking's the safest option. If they want to keep trying to j.CD you, you can poke them with st.A to get out of it.
Next thing is to DP. This is the easiest and riskiest thing you can do. I'd rather do it against someone jumping really high as you'll likely use C crow bites. If you use A Crow bites, you'll want to do it as they come closer to you to insure the invincibility doesn't wear out. C can be done at the top of their jump arc. Hell or high water, you'll hit them. You have to react quickly on this front though or you'll miss the opportunity. Also keep in mind their jump arc as K' might go right by them as they jump.
What I've been doing lately is backing up and doing qcf+C. C Ein Trigger is active for a really long time so when I use it after doing a backdash, they often land in it or collide with it. If they're doing it super meaty, they'll run right into Ein trigger before they hit you. This is a bit harder to get used to, but it's less risky than doing a DP, but probably not as damaging.
The last options are a bit harder because it involves either reacting quickly or reading. K' low B lowers his hitbox a lot. You can go under a lot of j.CDs like Daimon, Shen, Takuma, Mr. Karate if they do the j.CD early as an air-to-air. You can bait them to do this by hopping straight up once or twice from a reasonable distance and whiffing a j.CD. If they take the bait, they might try to respond by doing a hop CD. This abuses the fact that they can't block on the way down and they're already expired. You can link the d.Bs into a small combo or just whiff so you can do something a bit more advanced (Throw, st.C, HD bypass)
As for frame traps, the only three I can think of are ones using his light normals.
d.B, d.A => You're +1 after the d.A, but you're at far normal range.
d.B, (delay), d.B => Natural combo so it's a natural frame trap
d.B, st.C => Unnatural, but the blockstun into st.C makes late pressing difficult.
d.B, d.B, d.B, qcf+A => Max range of A Ein Trigger puts you at positive frames
Any normal, qcf+AC => +11 on block. You can literally guard break someone doing this over and over again.
(Opponent's wake up), qcf+C, d.B => This actually links on a knocked down opponent, do it just as they get up and they won't be able to do anything. Watch out for DPs.
st.B, st.D => In midscreen, does nothing useful. In the corner, low move blockstring other than d.B
d.B, st.A (whiff) => This needs its own explanation.
This frame trap is a bit risky because you're inherently safe, but you're whiffing a normal. If someone responds right after the blockstun, you're pretty toast. d.A has pretty poor range and might not encourage blocking low, but for more frame advantage so use this if you feel less safe.
Whiffing a standing jab, for a lot of people, usually solicits a response. You can check to see what people do during this period of limbo where you might not be hitting them. If they continue to block, you can do a number of things. You can hop up, do st.C, do d.B, walk forward and throw them, walk forward and do nothing, walk forward and do d.B, etc. The things you can do from a whiffed light are pretty endless. You can also be very bold and free cancel it into command normals like f+A or specials like a crow bite. Your st.A will hit them if they try to jump or switch to stand blocking. Aside from flash kicks and very fast buffering dps, it'll likely catch someone trying to do a reversal move as they stand. Again, if they're mashing right out the gate, they're probably going to tag you when you respond, but if you know this, you can have a counter ready for them.
That's about all aside from st.C, f+A, Ein Trigger. If they aren't blocking low, and this is super risky, you can sneak in a fast narrow spike because it's a natural combo. I've tried to delay it, but it might not come out. Aside from less effective stuff, just stick to 1,2 hit delayed normals to trick them.
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Hey guys, sorry if this has already been asked, but there's 19 pages here and I'm too lazy to look through them all, lol. How do you drive cancel DP into qcf+P without getting overlapped into a DM or EX DP?
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^ "-Canceling dp into qcf (e.g K' dp+P, [DC] qcf+P)--> hcb~f+P, qcf+P "
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Thanks a lot.
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So managed to poke around with K' today and figured out a combo that gets close to 800 dmg in HD for one bar. I don't know what else to cram in to make it break the barrier.
Midscreen/Semi-Corner
hop C, st.C(1 hit), f+A, {HD Bypass: hold back}, far st.D, qcb+Kx2 (instant slide), dp+A(1 hit), {HDC} qcb+K, qcb+K (whiff), (dp+A(1 hit), {HDC} qcf+C, f+D, f+A, qcb+B)x3, dp+A(1 hit), (HDC)qcf+C f+A, qcf,hcb+P = 783 dmg
If you can do j.C into d.C, f+A, it might push K' HD combo into the 800 mark, but I can't do that.
The minute spike after f+A, you don't need to do the whiff follow up. You let them fall to the right height and pop them back up again. Saves input stress and is easier to execute surprisingly!
HD mode ends exactly at the last HD cancel. This works about midscreen, it's not a full wall carry.
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kupô
any setup for safe-jump or cross-up ?
thx
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kupô
any setup for safe-jump or cross-up ?
thx
Not sure if it's been said here, but there is a crossup setup after the C Crow Bites. Provided you did the hard knockdown followup, on their wakeup, you do cr. B, then hop D. It's one of the most specific times you can do Hop D. Obviously, like most crossups for K, you're gonna lose to most DPs, but when people see the hop D, they usually think it's gonna whiff.
Only reason why I use hop D is for that very reason, people just aren't used to seeing it. You can do the same setup with hop A and hop C.
Crossup D, FYI, is stupid. lol. If you do cr. B on point-blank then hop D, it misses completely.
BUT, if you're point blank, then nudge K' back by like, a pixel, then do cr. b, then hop D, it hits.
...K' lol
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I'll give that a shot, that sounds really hard to deal with.
EDIT: Been really trying hard to get that down, but seems like they get back up before I rise from crouch B.
However, I did notice that if I hyper hopped, I get the cross up D. It doesn't combo though. Does your cross up combo?
You can also get the hyper hop set up off a throw or one crouch B from point blank. My method is to do the up motion for the jump and pressing the D button at practically the same time.
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I'll give that a shot, that sounds really hard to deal with.
EDIT: Been really trying hard to get that down, but seems like they get back up before I rise from crouch B.
However, I did notice that if I hyper hopped, I get the cross up D. It doesn't combo though. Does your cross up combo?
You can also get the hyper hop set up off a throw or one crouch B from point blank. My method is to do the up motion for the jump and pressing the D button at practically the same time.
My bad, I think I worded it wrong. Sorry!
What I meant was that you hit them with a cr.b on wakeup. It doesn't have to be meaty (It could though), and what happens is that it creates enough space to do a crossup D, and if you land the crossup, you can combo after it. What I realized from the duration that I posted that setup and from testing it on real people, I found out that it can be super ambiguous based on the timing of you hop D. Not only that, it conditions the opponent in a lot of ways.
- Woah, that hop D crosses up! I gotta reversal if I see that cr.b again
- There's that cr.b! Time to reversal before he gets me! What? He didn't jump! Ugh full punish! Fine, I'll just pre-emptive jab next time!
- There's the cr.b again! Let's jab. Woah! He hit a low again! Ugh! I'm gonna reversal before that cr.b comes out!
- Hard knockdown from crow bites! Okay, cr.b right? Reversal! What?! He didn't press anything/He did the normal early and baited my reversal! Another Punish?! Come on!
- Alright, fine, I'll just block. Here's that cr.b again, block the crossu- it's didn't crossup?! What?!
The problem is timing the hop. D. To be honest, while it's pretty cool, sometimes it whiffs, but i think it's because I didn't practice the timing well enough. But it's a solid tool. Sorry for the misinformation, though!
You can even add that hyper hop for more shenanigans. Or do a safe jump after the hard knockdown DP. So many things can be done!
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We're assuming that this happens when the opponent is crouching, right?
Edit: Got it. I also managed to figure out the proper spacing. Based on Iori's model, if you do cr.B and tap back just as K' finishes his animation, you should be at the right spacing which is where K' boot just barely touches Iori's shoe. You'd have to get this point blank.
You can also do this if they commit to crouching after a throw. Tap forward, cr.B, hop for cross up.
You can also do cr.B, st.B, qcf+B and you'll be at the right spacing.
This all goes out the window if someone blocks standing.
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We're assuming that this happens when the opponent is crouching, right?
Edit: Got it. I also managed to figure out the proper spacing. Based on Iori's model, if you do cr.B and tap back just as K' finishes his animation, you should be at the right spacing which is where K' boot just barely touches Iori's shoe. You'd have to get this point blank.
You can also do this if they commit to crouching after a throw. Tap forward, cr.B, hop for cross up.
You can also do cr.B, st.B, qcf+B and you'll be at the right spacing.
This all goes out the window if someone blocks standing.
Yeah it's when they're crouching. This setup is really based on them being scared of a second low, which is why I start off with cr.b.
This isn't really abusable, but I do think it just adds more stuff for your opponent to think of, which is always a good thing!
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There's merit in the strategy, don't get me wrong, especially because you can mix in the early cross up j.D to give people a guessing game.
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http://www.twitch.tv/mexikof/videos?kind=past_broadcasts (http://www.twitch.tv/mexikof/videos?kind=past_broadcasts)
Check out the MM vids (especially part 2) to watch Kusanagi's K'. He has a very rush down based K' over Luis Cha's defensive K' play style. His hit confirms and execution off of stray hits is amazing. There's a couple of combos I'll have to remember from him. I like his use of old school tactics of whiffing standing normals to get a throw.
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I found a 4f safe jump with K'. After his qcf~hcb+p super if you whiff s.B and then do a slightly delayed hop j.A it's a 4f safe jump. You may wonder when you would land his super but if you do his 1 drive, 1 bar bnb in the corner you'll land it.
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If you can stick the dp+A, qcf+C drive cancel, you'll get it a bit more consistently.
That is really useful, but I know off of the same setup, it beats 3F reversals. I'm just not so certain of the timing. AmedoS310 came up with an extensive list of 3F setups.
Edit: http://youtu.be/lVi7GAEftrA?t=1m9s (http://youtu.be/lVi7GAEftrA?t=1m9s)
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Okay, so I tried the setup I made with other people like Zeal here in the NJ/NY area. I kept missing it, and my timing was buns.
Then I kind of used my idea and the idea Reiki misunderstood, and realized that, after a hard knockdown, if I press cr.b twice; one that will whiff, and the other will hit, you can do the setup much easier. Not only that, the range creates a super tricky mixup with hop D and hop C.
Hop D will crossup, and hop C will not, but will look like it will. Mindgames can then be done from there.
I don't have a capture card, but I filmed it with a Potato ~__~, so here's what it looks like. You can gather the timing from there.
K' Crossup Setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eb9_2TJqf4#ws)
You can also do this with two cr.As, or a cr.B to cr.A, or vice versa. Funny enough, you're also still in range for a close D, hahahah!
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Now, if we can make people commit to blocking low more, this will really take off as a nice way to get people on. Also, I suggest working on the spacing after throw or just from a regular d.B 'cause that could be very useful in those situations.
For me, I'm having trouble landing it because people stand-block or anti-air with fast standing/crouching normals. If we make them scared with multiple low pokes, we can capitalize immensely.
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For some reason I find it much much easier to do ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a~ ;c for the drive cancel than HCB F+ ;a~QCF+ ;c. Timing is tight but after like 30 minutes practicing I can get it 90% of the time.
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What are the uses for K's sweep?
I'm tryng to be a little bit more unpredictable with K' because I'm finding that I'm being too easy to read. I'm not sure if it's just my general gameplay or K' oriented. So to try and remedy this situation, I'm trying to figure out the multiple uses for K's normals.
Also, what are good pressure strings for K' when on the offensive? I'm doing a few simple frame traps, but I'm finding that I'm leaving too many holes in the pressure, allowing them to escape. It could be due to my judgement or that I'm limiting my options too much when applying pressure.
I definitely would like to know more about K's:
-Hop Pressure Strings (Super needed!)
-Corner Pressure Strings
-Ground Pressure Strings
I don't want to Trigger a lot as I used to. Reasoning is because I'm noticing that for some matchups, doing a Trigger after a string effectively ends the pressure, or allows a hole for them to exit out of. Some Trigger Strings would also help as well!
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What are the uses for K's sweep?
I'm tryng to be a little bit more unpredictable with K' because I'm finding that I'm being too easy to read. I'm not sure if it's just my general gameplay or K' oriented. So to try and remedy this situation, I'm trying to figure out the multiple uses for K's normals.
Also, what are good pressure strings for K' when on the offensive? I'm doing a few simple frame traps, but I'm finding that I'm leaving too many holes in the pressure, allowing them to escape. It could be due to my judgement or that I'm limiting my options too much when applying pressure.
I definitely would like to know more about K's:
-Hop Pressure Strings (Super needed!)
-Corner Pressure Strings
-Ground Pressure Strings
I don't want to Trigger a lot as I used to. Reasoning is because I'm noticing that for some matchups, doing a Trigger after a string effectively ends the pressure, or allows a hole for them to exit out of. Some Trigger Strings would also help as well!
K' sweep is pretty standard for any sweep. It's got a nice range to it and is special cancelable so you can cancel the recovery with Ein's Trigger to keep yourself mostly safe.
The thing with K' is he's trying to get the opponent in the corner so he can bully with Ein's Trigger traps. Midscreen you kind of have to rely on j.CD and anti-air reactions. Also, at high level play being able to capitalize off of stray j.CD's, CH j.CD's, or anti-air/air-to-air situations with TK Crow Bite is really important. It's what allows you to maximize damage from stray hits and get people into the corner faster. EX Crow Bites lets you get follow ups in the corner and you can score 450+ damage with You only want to cancel Ein's Trigger->Second Shoot in a block string when they don't have meter cause they can guard cancel roll in between and punish you. So you're ground pressure strings is pretty much standard alterations of c.B, c.A, s.B, s.A mixed in with delays, hops, and jumps.
In close range you don't want to use j.D because the hit box is weird and will often whiff or get you anti-aired with a crouching normal. I really like j.A, j.B, j.C and j.CD for his jumping normals at close ranges but primarily his j.A because it has fast start up and long active frames while j.CD has a good hit box on it.
There's nothing special in hop pressure strings, it's pretty much standard between all of the characters. You have to read your opponent and see if they are going to check a hop with a normal in between your strings. If they are throwing out anti-air normals in between gaps of your strings then you can do something like c.B, c.B, dash c.B and catch their normal. If they are mashing on c.A/B to stuff those type of strings you start hopping/jumping instead. Depending on the match up you can use normal jumps to throw the anti-air timing for normals that would stop hops.
In the corner, you're bullying with the threat of Ein's trigger. You don't really want to use it in a block string in the corner but stagger your normals to entice them to try and escape. When you leave those gaps you can try using Ein's Trigger->Second Shell to catch a button or a jump. There's no way to react to their jump so you'll have to throw in Ein's Trigger->Second Shell when you feel the opponent might jump. Otherwise, you can just do standard normal pressure with c.B, hops, etc... EX Ein's Trigger is really good in the corner for guard bar damage, frame advantage, and further bullying.
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Just going to throw my hat in there to answer some of your questions from my perspective. It might just be supplemental to Killey, but I play K' a bit more defensive so I make a lot of use out of his normals.
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Question 1 (Sweep): Killey already mentioned the main portions, but you can use his sweep as a hit confirm into a combo. You can cancel the sweep into EX Chain Drive which is an anywhere juggle. If you condition people to stand block, either through tick throwing or mixing up your ground pressure with hops, it will net you a decent 40% at max for two bars alone.
Since K' isn't a combo heavy character or mix-up heavy character, you have to make use of his normals to trick or pressure people.
Question 2 (Hop Pressure Strings): Again, Killey covered a lot of this, but I have something to say. j.D is a very good normal when used properly. The arc and range of j.D is one of the most horizontal reaching normal K' has. He can hop at someone and tag them a full character length with his hop D. It's also a decent air-to-air which you can buffer qcb+K in the air to net extra damage in exchanges.
Part of hop pressure strings is also poking. You're not always going to move forward. By timing hop D, you can hit people from farther away and poke them with cr.B once at max range. This keeps you relatively safe because you don't have to commit to getting in someone's space. You can use this to hop forward from a distance and keep applying pressure from a safe position. You can use this by jumping straight up after jumping on someone with another normal or j.CD. You can step away from them a little out of their throw range and tag them with a j.D from really far away. This works wonders in the corner where jumping straight up presents a wall they can't cross. j.CD, j.B, and j.D can pressure people heavily even when you're just hopping straight up as it keeps them from advancing forward.
Some pieces of hop pressure is trying to condition people into a cross up situation. For K', his usual cross up options are j.A and j.C, but now with our discovery above, you can setup to even have j.D cross up. Cross ups are mostly ground based so we'll ignore that for now.
Question 3 (Corner Pressure Strings): Again, gonna just add on to Killey's comments. K' does not have particularly safe specials. Ein trigger follow-ups are unsafe and even Ein Trigger is fairly slow with considerable recovery. That being said, you don't always want to rely on this. Corner pressure is also about keeping people in the corner in a state of panic. K' has a fairly long reaching cr.B and st.A. Without pushback, you can mix in gaps for people to react to or not react to. For example, you can tick away with cr.B once and do st.A to check a hop. If they duck, it whiffs, but the recovery is very fast on whiff. If they tried to jump, you put them in an air reset. Reacting to these situations where there's a fork is also important. Using this example, if they ducked, they're not in a position to tech a throw. Also because you whiffed a normal, they're not in block stun. You can proceed to attempt a tick throw. If they air reset, you can throw out a meaty (+6) regular ein trigger which will put them in a frame trap. You could throw out another normal to poke them.
You can also give them space after knock downs. Get just outside of their jump range and poke them with d.B into Ein Trigger. Even if it whiffs, if they make a motion to move forward, they'll get tagged by the Ein Trigger. Using A Ein Trigger knocks them down while C keeps them standing. I alternate, but using A in the corner gives you more air reset options so liberally use A Ein Trigger.
Poking people from a safe distance also encourages them to jump. Using vertical jumps to present a wall is also a form of pressure and attrition in the corner. K' can make use of this with early j.CDs, j.Bs, and j.Ds. They're very good, you can confirm off of them into HD, and two of them are air cancel-able so you can do qcb+K for extra damage.
In the corner, you can use strings like cr.B x3 and cr.B, cr.A, cr.B because they're pinned up against the corner. Delay them as any hit can turn into a hit confirm. You can also tag people a lot with st.B from afar because it's a mid-body normal that hits crouching and standing opponents. Use it to poke after strings to check people who might be jumping or pressing buttons. Also, part of strings is taking your foot of the gas. You can back dash or roll backwards to bait out reversals or throw off a counter-poke so you can open them up when they whiff.
Frame traps like cr.A (delay) cr.B or cr.B, st.C are great in the corner because they continue your ability to leave small gaps people react to. Use this more so when people are trying to press buttons to poke you rather than when they roll.
If they're in the corner and they roll, use your frame traps and walk back and forth a little. Don't feel like you have to commit. You can catch roll outs a lot easier if you give them some space or are not committing to a block string.
Question 4 (Ground Pressure Strings): So now we're in mid-screen, this gets a bit more difficult. K' can't get very good damage off of poking because after one or two normals, he can't get no-meter carry combos. You should stick to confusing people with frame traps I mentioned earlier, cross ups I mentioned earlier, and light block strings into running.
You can do a lot to confuse people without jumping. However, in mid-screen that's really going to use a lot of meter. His EX Black out, after 2 cr.Bs will cross people up on the other side. You can use that (sparingly) to get around people and throw off their thoughts. You can confirm with EX Ein Trigger into a combo. If you connect with two cr.Bs only, f+B follow up is better. If you got a confirm off your hop pressure, be safe and just do f+D. Either one is fairly safe.
Other than that, if you want to stick in on people, mixing in running in to low normals or running in for a tick throw is a 50-50 mix up from one or two cr.Bs. You could also delay a C Ein Trigger and use the f+B follow up to tag people pressing buttons. Using C Ein Trigger in midscreen is better because on hit, you can connect f+B for extra damage. Although they're standing, soft knockdowns are not as useful all the time because people can tech. C Ein Trigger on hit is, in my opinion, 0 frames of advantage. It also puts you in a position to react to what they do in response on block or hit.
A risky mid-screen tactic is to pressure people and hit them with Minute Spike as a whiff punisher. You're not using it to continue pressure, but you can use it to encourage people not to whiff normals after your blockstrings which will allow you to bring in elements like running forward for tick throws (or walk, it's safer).
This same tactic can be used if you learn how to bypass Minute spike to Narrow spike for a low. At max range, B narrow spike is -5 and hard to punish because of the distance. The EX version is -3 point blank and relatively safe at a max range so you can use this to continue pressure or get in. Just be wary of grapplers like Daimon and Raiden as they have far reaching grabs.
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Well, those are my tactics. They're pretty basic. Just wanted to add a few elements to Killey's advice.
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Just a little addition to j.D I'd like to make.
So depending on when you press D, the active frames may fall on weird angles. It's important to understand when you do because it opens up some option selects I'd not previously considered.
For example: You knockdown Ryo with your BnB, cr.B X2, qcf+A and he doesn't tech. Doesn't matter either way considering Ryo has a great anti-air cr.C and his 3F DP, makes it difficult to capitalize. From where you're standing, you can hit Ryo in any of those circumstances or bait with just one hyper hop.
If you hyper hop and do nothing, Ryo's too far away to hit you with d.C or his dp+A. Anything slower than that will be blocked on landing or get stuffed by a normal. If you hyper hop and press j.D, that's different. The hitbox for j.D is really long horizontally on a particular active frame. If you wait till he does the DP or cr.C, it'll whiff and you can press j.D on reaction. You can tag on an extra qcb+K in the air for an easy 100 damage.
You can make good use of this in a lot of situations and make your K' more oppressive on knockdown as you can attack from a relatively safe distance.
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what is the general consensus of K' as a point / battery chracter? How are his matchups with zoning characters like Kensou / Saiki? Opinions in general?
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K' needs meter to do corner carry or just confirm more than one hit or a jump-in into a combo. If you don't have meter, he plays a lot like Ash (Poking and fundamental zoning/footsies). After he gets meter, he's good to go. I'd put him as a 2nd or anchor.
Also, against zoners, his double fireball and EX fireball wreck most people. His EX teleport lets him get away from dumb setups like Saiki's fireball super and Kensou's frame traps. All and all, he's a very good zoner, one of the best in my opinion.
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Hmmm....I was hoping to be able to use him as a battery / point character since I want to build meter for Leona.....any other opinions / suggestions?
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You can do a lot of short combos and fireballs if he's point. There's not a lot people can do to you unless they spend the bar to get around K' Ein trigger up close. He's a very flexible character though. You can try it and see, but again, he's not like a traditional battery that can do a lot of damage or build a lot of bar without any investment.
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okay so this combo is really annoying the shit out of me and idk what im doing wrong. His 1 bar HD combo.....this:
cl.st.C > f+A xx qcb+D~qcb+D > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
okay....I can do all of the parts of this combo 100% of the time....I can do the 4 reps into the ender.....I can do the confirm into HD....my issue is when I put the whole thing together, the combo drops at the end (DP+A > hdc qcf+C~f+D > etc)
It ALWAYS drops at the ein trigger when I put the " hit confirm > qcb+D > stuff " in there. The ein triegger / second shell NEVER juggle.....it seems to happen anytime I start with a qcb+D xx qcb+D before the DPs start. For example. If I do this:
activate HD > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
It works 100%
but if I do this:
activate HD > qcb+D(whiff)~qcb+D > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
it drops at the ein trigger > second shell.
Ive got no idea why, but this is driving me crazy. I can record it for yall if that might.
does anyone know whats going on?
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When you do crow bites into minute spike, you're gradually lifting the opponent higher into the air. So if you do it 2-3 times from some initial height, you have to wait a split second for them to fall to the right height.
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okay so this combo is really annoying the shit out of me and idk what im doing wrong. His 1 bar HD combo.....this:
cl.st.C > f+A xx qcb+D~qcb+D > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
okay....I can do all of the parts of this combo 100% of the time....I can do the 4 reps into the ender.....I can do the confirm into HD....my issue is when I put the whole thing together, the combo drops at the end (DP+A > hdc qcf+C~f+D > etc)
It ALWAYS drops at the ein trigger when I put the " hit confirm > qcb+D > stuff " in there. The ein triegger / second shell NEVER juggle.....it seems to happen anytime I start with a qcb+D xx qcb+D before the DPs start. For example. If I do this:
activate HD > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
It works 100%
but if I do this:
activate HD > qcb+D(whiff)~qcb+D > [ DP+A > hdc qcb+D~qcb+D(whiff)] x4 > DP+A hdc qcf+C~f+D > f+A > super
it drops at the ein trigger > second shell.
Ive got no idea why, but this is driving me crazy. I can record it for yall if that might.
does anyone know whats going on?
Doing your combo suggestion lifts the opponent higher off the ground before you start the loops, which means for the ender you have to wait till the are closer to the ground. Player might find this hard because it breaks out of their rhythm for the combo. I assume thats what happening and why you are dropping it.
I made a quick vid, showing your combo and maybe an alternate. Sacrifice damage for less execution can help and also keep the opponent alittle lower to the ground. Either way, you do have to wait a bit before you do the last rep or you will always whiff the followup.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKEXg6-HIl4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKEXg6-HIl4#)
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I think point K' is best because he can be more risky. He has to spend too much meter to get damage, but he's great with momentum. Play point K', fuck what ya hearrrd
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My thought process when it comes to K' is that he's the setup man. The man who starts things off to get a feel for general habits such as wanting to hop, mashing pokes, and their spacing. My opinion is that K' is great at understanding a player's tendencies and seeing if he adapts or not. He's not the ultra rushdown character we knew and loved back in Arcade Mode, and now he's all about spacing, gaining meter, and picking the right moments to tell your opponent that s/he generally screwed up.
That's why I choose to put K' on point. My other 2 are King and Mature, and the reality is that K' can't go wild like the other two, nor go wild like the rest of the higher tiers. But what he can do is build a solid pressure game. If they can't get past my pressure, sucks to be them, eat Trigger Flames.
If they can get past my pressure, sucks to be them, I have King next, and I have a much better understanding of your general tendencies, which I can apply with King who has the much better array of ground normals and an aerial fireball. If you get past her, you're going through my even nuttier Mature.
But in reality, all of this is set up by the point man, K'. He either beats the crap out of you, or makes sure his other teammates who have better strengths will finish what he started.
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Someone, for the love of god, tell me how to face Kula. I have no clue how to approach her and her Lay Spins. The K' vs Kula matchup, even after about 50 matches, is unknown to me!
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So, Lay Spin isn't safe. You can d.B her if she does it in your face and does a follow up. You can throw her out of it if she does a follow up. You can also dp her if she does Lay Spin and does any follow up afterwards. It's not a true blockstring so you can get out of it. She'll opt out of doing that if you legitimately punish her every time. I would do the DP as it's invincible on start up long enough to hit her. If you're not confident in A DP, use C or EX DP for more invulnerability.
If this is too hard, you can always guard cancel roll after she does her fireball and run at her to punish her.
She'll stop doing Layspin on block and opt to do her Ice Breath on block. Still not a real block string. The timing is a bit tight, but with meter you can punish her for doing that to you with EX Black out or EX Chain Drive. Albeit, you need meter to do it and need to know she's going to do it, but Kula (after st.C or st.D) doesn't gain much from poking aside from st.B.
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So, Lay Spin isn't safe. You can d.B her if she does it in your face and does a follow up. You can throw her out of it if she does a follow up. You can also dp her if she does Lay Spin and does any follow up afterwards. It's not a true blockstring so you can get out of it. She'll opt out of doing that if you legitimately punish her every time. I would do the DP as it's invincible on start up long enough to hit her. If you're not confident in A DP, use C or EX DP for more invulnerability.
If this is too hard, you can always guard cancel roll after she does her fireball and run at her to punish her.
She'll stop doing Layspin on block and opt to do her Ice Breath on block. Still not a real block string. The timing is a bit tight, but with meter you can punish her for doing that to you with EX Black out or EX Chain Drive. Albeit, you need meter to do it and need to know she's going to do it, but Kula (after st.C or st.D) doesn't gain much from poking aside from st.B.
Would it be too tight to do a Minute Spike, or at least an EX Version on her Ice Breath strings?
I'm pretty sure I tried to DP on reaction and ate the Lay Spin, but it was on awkward ranges. Most Kulas I face don't do the Lay Spin point blank, but it's usually at a range where the tip of her spin kick hits so I'm out of grab range. I'll try DPing at that point too. Once I get out of work, I'll check to see if she's still unsafe if she does no followup on a spaced-out Lay Spin.
I'm noticing that Trigger doesn't work so well in this matchup, but that may be just my poor choices. I originally stuck a mid-range/long-range game to try and bait out the lay spin with Trigger > Second Shell but it definitely doesn't feel like a viable option.
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Kula is like K' in that she doesn't have a command grab or a whole buttload of invincible moves. You can apply frame traps and aggressive pressure on Kula that will make her a lot less dangerous because she can't move.
If Kula is doing Lay Spin at a distance, she's likely using far st.C, CD, or st.B. If you block far st.C or CD and they cancel into Lay Spin, you can't do anything. They're too far away, but you're at neutral. In fact, you're a little faster. Kula's st.B is 4F, K' d.B is 4F. If she does Lay Spin at that distance and tries to poke you with st.B, you beat her out with d.B. This proves she is negative on block still. Anything she does after this blockstring will not beat you. Throw out a d.B to keep her honest. If she starts to jump after Lay spin to avoid punishment, you can anti-air her normally.
If she does st.B, that's not even a block string. You can DP her after she does st.B and cancels. She has to space it far enough and that's probably gonna be after some d.Bs. It's not easy to buffer a DP after one st.B, but with practice, you can. However, after two d.Bs into st.B, you can expose that weakness with dp+C real easy. Dp+A trades most of the time but allows for a follow up qcb+B.
As for when Kula stops using Lay Spin and starts using Ice Breath, here's the scoop:
Use dp+C when you think she does st.C to start into Ice Breath. It'll go right through and interrupt her before she does it.
Use qcf+BD (EX Blackout) to get around her when she does st.B into Ice Breath at max range. Other methods work, but you will trade if you don't delay it at the right moment. This is 100% insurance in that you will get a full combo punish when she does that.
Use dp+AC (EX Crowbites) when she does far st.C into Ice Breath. For some reason, K' will dp the first time through it and then rip her to shreds.
Also, qcb+BD (EX Minute Spike) works on every version. EX Minute Spike has guardpoint on the its first frame of start up. It eats up frame traps that are tight like that. You get a nice corner carry too. Try it out in training mode, tell me what you think.
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Try staying out of Lay Spin range in the first place. I don't think Minute Spike can beat the gap in the blockstring. Just stick with your DP. Be sure to button hold it; comes out easier.
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EX Minute spike doesn't beat it, it absorbs the hit caused by the attack.
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Need help with Trials. I've seen the videos but need moar expert help. Anyone???
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Need help with Trials. I've seen the videos but need moar expert help. Anyone???
Which trial is giving you issues?
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Need help with Trials. I've seen the videos but need moar expert help. Anyone???
Which trial is giving you issues?
Trial 5, barely got past Trial 4, and I KNOW the next 5 after this WILL BE HOURS OF WHIFFS.
It's the 2 Tiger Knee Minute Spikes.
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You can either qcb~ub+BD or qcb~b+BD.
The first one is the most common but the move can come out at different heights depending on when you press the buttons. The second one is much better for "low" as possible air ms.
For this trial, you need them fairly high up i would suggest the second method (IMO, the better option when you want to do air ms after DM's). You can also add additional moves to the combo as long as the sequence combo is still complete. If you do a jCD after qcf+qcf+A~f+D, it will be alittle bit better for hitting the air ms at the peak of the fall. You also have to do the DM as soon as you land
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I just did it using the first method. I wasn't even in the zone that much and I just did it; BRAINDEAD. Had gone to the kitchen to warm up my pizza, got back on, and did it right there.
All those other thousands of tries I musta been in TriHard mode. *facepalm*
Now on to Trial 6.
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Im trying to cancel his dp to ein trigger and I get super 90% of the time regardless of how Im timing it. Is there any input tricks someone wants to enlighten me about to avoid getting super?
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Im trying to cancel his dp to ein trigger and I get super 90% of the time regardless of how Im timing it. Is there any input tricks someone wants to enlighten me about to avoid getting super?
DP's can be alternately inputted as a hcb,f motion. Doing that and then cancelling to a qcf will ensure you don't cancel into the super.
If you ever need help with inputs in the future, go to this thread for reference.
http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.0)
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Im trying to cancel his dp to ein trigger and I get super 90% of the time regardless of how Im timing it. Is there any input tricks someone wants to enlighten me about to avoid getting super?
DP's can be alternately inputted as a hcb,f motion. Doing that and then cancelling to a qcf will ensure you don't cancel into the super.
If you ever need help with inputs in the future, go to this thread for reference.
http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.0)
I did some digging and found that thanks for the reply though.
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So, was watching the latest video about weird tech where you can cross people up with supers. I tried it with K' today and seems you can do the same instance after any knockdown if you time it right. It is a bit gimmicky, but because you can cause knockdowns from qcf+P, this can be useful to making people confused about when to block.
A slight delay in timing will make it hit in front of them, but that also is to your advantage if people understand the gimmick.
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^Where can this video be found?
Also hey everyone. I played K' when I first picked up the game, dropped him from my main team the moment I discovered the DLC characters (Iori was an easy replacement) but I still run K' in casuals from time to time... and get blown up horribly because I have no idea how to approach my opponent aside from zoning with fireballs or random minute spikes. How on earth is one supposed to play this character well when he has so many shitty day 1 gimmicks at his disposal? Having to ignore over half your movelist in most situations seems rather difficult if you ask me >.>
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http://dreamcancel.com/2014/01/13/kofxiii-cross-up-supers-tech/ (http://dreamcancel.com/2014/01/13/kofxiii-cross-up-supers-tech/)
Right here.
Most of it is technical and dependent on situational awareness. Most of the use you'll get out of K' is footsies.
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...hot damn, the uploader made it a private video. YOLO!
Footsies, huh? I can respect that, though I don't think he'll be regaining a slot on my "real" team any time soon. I played a couple matches with him tonight, and I found myself lacking. The set caused me to rediscover my groove for the game as a whole, and I have to thank K' for his part in that. I no longer see K' in my future with this game though, King will always perform better for me personally.
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...hot damn, the uploader made it a private video. YOLO!
Footsies, huh? I can respect that, though I don't think he'll be regaining a slot on my "real" team any time soon. I played a couple matches with him tonight, and I found myself lacking. The set caused me to rediscover my groove for the game as a whole, and I have to thank K' for his part in that. I no longer see K' in my future with this game though, King will always perform better for me personally.
Here's an example. K' throws an opponent, just as they're getting up while they're on all fours visually, you do Chain Drive. If you did it right, the opponent has to block the other way to defend against it.
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That sounds awesome, I really dig the concept. It's a shame there's no in-depth analysis of this floating around, it seems like something that could lead to discoveries for other characters as well...
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That sounds awesome, I really dig the concept. It's a shame there's no in-depth analysis of this floating around, it seems like something that could lead to discoveries for other characters as well...
He did a whole video, but it works on a lot of situations. I tested it earlier today on hard knockdowns, tech rolling, air resets, and each time, you can time it to hit behind them. The real kicker is doing it twice. It's a backturned cross up situation so it's really weird to block.
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KoF XIII : K' Combo by ｋｙｔｋ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNAZw00Yxq8#ws)
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Can't learn this guy for crap though he is my favorite character.
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Having trouble with K' and Elisabeth atm. K' Trial 6 is evil. I delayed the ;fd ;dn ;df ;a and timed it so after the second hit of that move I can DC into ;dn ;df ;fd ;a ;c and I ALWAYS whiff. Please Help!!!!
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It's not a timing thing (kinda), it's a positioning thing. You actually have to DC off the first hit of dp+A. You also only get a few frames to do it in, which is why it's so tough.
There are two ways to do the dp+A to qcf+C/AC combo. You either do half-circle back, forward + A, qcf+AC or dp+A (the exact motions, do not hit forward twice), then quarter circle forward.
The second method is confusing to some, but go into training mode and turn inputs on. When you do a dp and let go of the direction, it takes on an additional forward. If you tried to do qcf+AC at that point, it'll do super. If you do not let go of the stick, it won't register forward, but will be held at down-forward. From there, you go to down and do a quarter circle forward instead from that point.
The other way, which is harder is do a kind of double-tap motion after doing dp+A, f+AC. You have to tap the buttons almost immediately after doing dp+A. Some people have success in pressing buttons than doing directional inputs, so this method works. I have never done it outside of HD mode (Where the cancel window is much bigger) so I can't speak for it.
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I'm on pad....and it's pretty easy though I will be perfecting this in the days to come.
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You have to DC on the first hit not the second one. Its easier if you do hcbf+A qcf~uf+AC for the EX to come out
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Wow, I completely forgot about upforward for EX DC. I have just been doing it straight up and getting mixed results due to timing.
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You have to DC on the first hit not the second one. Its easier if you do hcbf+A qcf~uf+AC for the EX to come out
Can you do the DP and get the same result?
It'd probably be easier because to confirm Reiki's earlier post you do get an unwanted ;fd if you let go of ;df and all you have to do is hit ;uf ;a ;c for an easy DC....I could be wrong though.
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No that wont work. Has to be the input i suggested.
Check my channel as I did the trial with hands to see if need help
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I did....just that I'm on pad and can't afford an arcade stick at the moment.
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What's up guys!
So I've begun making a full-detailed tutorial on K', and completed the first part, focusing on his movement, throw, normals and command normal.
The K' Bible - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VoSbtP6VWU#ws)
Tell me what you guys think! Give me any feedback, any problems you felt with the first part, positive or negative, anything to help improve the second part!
Part 2 will be all about K's specials, so I really want your help! Give me whatever info about K's specials that you feel are important for a K' player to know, and of course I will give you credit on the video. Also, if there was something on Part 1 I missed and you pointed out, I will go over it at the beginning of part 2 and give you credit as well.
Let's all work together on this!!
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Sorry for being too lazy to dig through this thread and having to ask such a simple question, but...
I've recently been practicing K' HDs (just the basic DP xx qcb + B/D loop) but tonight I happened to discover that in HD mode you can cancel DP into Trigger just by holding the button... however, it doesn't seem to combo, like ever. Is this a height issue? Does the trigger have to be cancelled into during a later frame of the DP? What's the secret to combo-ing into trigger from DP?
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It has to be the C version of Trigger.
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After a bit of practicing, I discovered what everyone else who knows the aforementioned combos already does... in order for the trigger to connect, the DP has to hit the opponent at a very specific height. If your HD starts midscreen with a DP xx spike (or two) to carry them to the corner, they will conveniently be at exactly this height after you recover from the spike. However, the trigger followup puts them higher in the air, so in order to perform the loop again the following inputs (f+a, spike, DP) have to all be timed appropriately so the opponent will be at the right height when the DP hits. Luckily, I've found that this can be achieved as simply as inputting the f+a as soon as possible, then delaying the DP input after the spike accordingly. I also figured out the non-HD version (hcb+f DP xx qcf C) such that I'll be consistent with it after another training mode session or two.
I'm astounded by how much damage this cancel adds to K' combos, it changes his average damage output for the meter spent from mediocre to godlike. Now I seriously have to consider playing this character on my team over King... the thought makes me sad, but holy shit is this character actually good. The anywhere juggles allow him to convert off stray air hits like Vice, but unlike her K' has a meterless DP and a legitimate presence on the ground due to his projectile and mixup tools. Now I realize how his qcf+B/D is actually meant to be used, and something tells me I'm gonna have a much more impressive result to upload after I take on the illustrious Joel next week... Wish me luck!