Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Leona Heidern => Topic started by: Rex Dart on December 13, 2011, 01:19:17 AM
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Leona Heidern is awesome, and deserves an awesome Wiki page.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29)
And while I think we have a good start here, the wiki isn't quite as awesome as Leona deserves. A lot of the move descriptions and combo damage values are based on the arcade version and need to be updated.
If you like Leona and want other people to enjoy Leona as well, please help us out by
- offering any tips, advice or info you think is useful
- suggesting more combos, or just checking damage values for existing combos
- posting sexy pictures of Leona (These won't be added to the wiki, but they're still appreciated.)
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I'm sorry my contribution wasn't good enough for you, Rex D: lol
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The wiki is pretty good, yeah. Some things to note:
- Slash Saber is the only on-the-spot followup to a midscreen Grand Saber. This is pretty useful, as GS is great for catching backdashes, following up after counter hit CDs, or just pressuring in general.
--- B Grand Saber can combo off heavy normal hits, but is easily punishable on block.
--- D Grand Saber cannot combo off normals, but is equal or with VERY slight advantage on block. To me, this makes it as abusable as Kyo's Arcade dash'n'grab, which was used very often to maintain his pressure.
- Neutral j.D not only is a nice instant overhead, but can also be used to cover the decent portion of a neutral jump. Since the attack area is so far downward, this can me a nice suprise to use on opponents every once in a while.
- Earring Bakudan is stronger than a normal projectile. I've had it pierce through them before, and continue it's travel. I don't know what this counts as (it's not multi hit?), but it's good to remember that this could give her the advantage in a mid-distance projectile war.
--- Also, it has a very nice startup. You can use this to punish jump-ins, and it's also a very good combo-extender for her, if you're still not confident in your Saber / Slasher DCs / Want to do something less demanding.
-- Not only is EX Baltic Launcher Faster and better at recovery, the sphere is also bigger.
-- EX Grand Saber makes a nice Frametrap for twitchy opponents. People who try to jab out of a Strike Arch for punishment will get stuck in a nasty suprise. It locks opponenets down long enough to allow her to land, get back in, and continue to apply pressure. The only way to really get out of this is a well-timed GCCD or GC Roll.
Oh, and sexy image? Sure, here's one from Homare, who also did some of those special images for XIII's arcade release for Arcadia magazine (he does lots of awesome KoF Art over the years):
(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/ArticSABCA/KoF%20MMC%20Images/47abd3ebf2879861e377a8b2d9d815f941523dfe.jpg)
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amendments to the combo/damage listing and some miscellaneous goods
cl C does 40+40 (scaling brings it to +38)
as does cl D
her A is her only whiff cancellable normal
it's worth noting that her neutral jump D only comes out when jumping, not hopping.
fB is more safe from chain than raw.
COMBOS PAGE
0b0d
combo 1- omit the f+B, it simply doesn't work.
combo 3 s.C, f+B, air qcb+A does 174 (listed as 202)
additional combo to add: s.C, f+B, air qcb+C, d~u+C does 222 (corner only)
1b0d
combo 3- st.C, qcb hcf+K does 264 (listed as 292)
combo 4- st.C, f+B, air qcf,hcb+P does 310 (listed as 338)
2b0d
combo 2- nj.D, (air) qcf hcb+AC does 393 (listed as 376)
combo 3- st.C, f+B, air qcf,hcb+AC does 412 (listed as 423)
combo 4- st.C, qcb+BD, qcb hcf+K does 373 (listed as393)
0b1d
combo 1- (Corner) s.C, f.B, air qcb+C, d~u+C, [DC] b~f+D, d~u+P does 316 (listed as 344)
1b1d
combo 6- (Corner) s.C, f.B, air qcb+C, d~u+C, [DC] b~f+D, qcf,hcb+P does 428 (listed as 456)
combo 7- cr.B, st.B, f+B xx qcb+A [SC] qcf,hcb+P does 330 (unlisted damage).
2b1d
combo 2- d.B, d.A, d~u+P, [DC] b~f+BD, qcb,hcf+K does 438 (listed as 420)
combo 3- (Corner) s.D, b~f+B, [DC] qcb+BD, b~f+D, qcf,hcb+P does 419 (unlisted damage)
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Thanks, for the notes, Falken. I'll try to look over the wiki tonight with the changes you've noted. Also, I'm not sure if anyone added in SAB's changes either, so I'll take a look at those too. Good stuff guys.
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Hello, I was wondering if these HD combos could be added to Leona's wiki:
CORNER
*= can "also" be done "near" corner
- 3 Meters HD [866 Dmg]:
s.C, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb+C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x3, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- *3 Meters HD [880 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass), b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x3, d~u+P [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- *3 Meters HD [894 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass), b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- *3 Meters HD [925 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- *3 Meters HD [941 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, b~f+B [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- *3 Meters HD [958 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, d~u+P [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
MID-SCREEN
- 3 Meters HD [835 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass) [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x2, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [838 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass) [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+P [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [913 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x2, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [916 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+P [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
FULL-SCREEN (WALL-to-WALL)
NOTE: all of these combos are based off Leona's Trial 8 in Mission Mode
- 3 Meters HD [751 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass) [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B, qcb qcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [829 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B, qcb qcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [873 Dmg]:
(jump attack required), d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, qcb qcf+AC
- 4 Meters HD [888 Dmg]:
d.B, d.B, d~u+BC (HD bypass) [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B [HDC] qcb qcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- 4 Meters HD [966 Dmg]:
d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B [HDC] qcb qcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
- 4 Meters HD [1007 Dmg]:
(jump attack required), d.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, qcb qcf+K [MC] qcb qcf+AC
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Hello, I was wondering if these HD combos could be added to Leona's wiki:
Yes, they will be added very soon.
Do you have anything else to contribute to her wiki page?
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Hello, I was wondering if these HD combos could be added to Leona's wiki:
Yes, they will be added very soon.
Do you have anything else to contribute to her wiki page?
I'll take care of this update; sitting with ESB Cancel right now.
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Okay, but I might touch it up and edit it later for it can fit in line with the structure of the way other pages have HD combos formatted.
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Hello again, after having some time to try stuff out and type them, here are more HD combos for Leona I wanted to share for her wiki:
NEAR CORNER / CORNER
- 3 Meters HD [895 Dmg]:
s.D, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- (corner only) 3 Meters HD [916 Dmg]:
(corner only) far.C, HD, s.C, f.B, qcb+C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x3, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [935 Dmg]:
far.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [951 Dmg]:
far.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, b~f+B [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [968 Dmg]:
far.C, HD, d.C, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x4, d~u+P [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
MIDSCREEN
- 3 Meters HD [895 Dmg]:
s.D, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x2, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- 3 Meters HD [935 Dmg]:
far.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, (d~u+A [HDC] b~f+D) x2, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
FULLSCREEN
- 3 Meters HD [783 Dmg]:
s.D, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B [HDC] qcb hcf+AC
- 4 Meters HD [913 Dmg]:
s.D, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, b~f+B [HDC] qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
- 4 Meters HD [991 Dmg]:
far.C, HD, d.C, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D [HDC] d~u+AC [HDC] b~f+D, d~u+C [HDC] b~f+D, qcb hcf+K [MC] qcb hcf+AC
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Looked through the combos and had some comments. Also I was thinking it might be helpful to have some comments on listed combos or groups of combos, so people can understand when they might use each combo.
0 Bar, 0 Drive
- cr.C, d~u+P - I'm not sure how useful this is. I can see using it as an option from a charge while running but as a punish st.C/cr.C/st.D, f+B, qcf+A gets you more damage and you have time to confirm your first normal.
1 Bar, 1 Drive
cr.B, st.B, f+B, (air) qcb+C, d~u+C, (DC) b~f+D, (air) qcf hcb+P - Should mention this is corner / near-corner to get the qcb+C after f+B.
Also worth possible mention is you can HD bypass a raw air EX V-Slasher and then Neomax to punish a ground projectile or slow move. It's 4 bars, but an instant 790 damage.
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Looked through the combos and had some comments. Also I was thinking it might be helpful to have some comments on listed combos or groups of combos, so people can understand when they might use each combo.
You're right. Can you help us by providing some comments on some of her combos by posting the combo here with your comment? Along with anything else you want to share?
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Looked through the combos and had some comments. Also I was thinking it might be helpful to have some comments on listed combos or groups of combos, so people can understand when they might use each combo.
You're right. Can you help us by providing some comments on some of her combos by posting the combo here with your comment? Along with anything else you want to share?
Sounds good. I think ESB and others on the KOF tourney players FB group can do a better job of tackling the HD combos than I can, but I'll do what I can to add input to the more basic combos, plus look for the optimal ones.
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OK, here's my suggestions for the meterless combos. I'm not the best player so feel free to comment and add/correct where needed. Thanks!
Midscreen Combos
0 Stock, No Drive Gauge
cr.A, cr.B, f+B, air qcb+A = 170 dmg
cr.Bx2, st.B, f+B, air qcb+A = 175 dmg
- Staple combos for Leona starting from two low normals, allowing the player enough time to hit-confirm into the remainder of the combo. If the first low normal is started far from the opponent, the following cr.B can be omitted for 149/154 damage.
s.C (2)/s.D (2), f+B, air qcb+A = 174 dmg
- An alternative combo to the above starting from a two-hit standing C or D. Best used as a punish, as f+B is slightly unsafe on block.
j.A, air qcb+A = 97 dmg
nj.D, air qcb+A = 127 dmg
- After connecting with an instant overhead j.A or nj.D, Leona can combo an air A X-Calibur. nj.D has near-instant startup, so these help add to her mixup game if the opponent is getting too comfortable blocking low.
cr.B, cr.C, f+B, air qcb+A = 192 dmg
- Leona's cr.B can link into cr.C, granting her a little extra damage. As before, be sure to hit-confirm the cr.B and cr.C before inputting the f+B.
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Okay guys, I made edits from combos contributed from ESB Cancel and Ryujin. Thanks a lot for your contributions.
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29#Combos (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29#Combos)
I wanted know from ESB Cancel which one of those HD combos are a staple combo to learn for a beginner? Also, do you have any comments of which combos are more useful than another combo? Reason I'm asking this is because there are a LOT of combos and I hope we don't scare players thinking they need to learn all of the combos, so if you can provide some insight on the practicality on any of these, that would really help.
Ryujin, do you have anything for any combos with meter? Also, don't worry if you aren't a good player or so, as long as the info is accurate and helpful, that's all that matters. :)
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Thanks Desmond and Ryujin, apologies for not posting sooner. I will be sure to have comments for them to try and help people along the way. As for her staple HD Combos for beginner I would say: (listed on the wiki) Near Corner Combo 3 and Combo 6. These are the ones I think are the basic HD combos imo
Also, I agree that there are a too many HD combos. But that is because of different Starters and Enders but the Middle is mainly the same for some of them. The reason I still listed them is because I thought it would help players know which attack to start HD from and that the damage numbers were different enough that that was enough for them to be listed. But if anyone feels that the HD list is excessive or cluttered, I apologize and I'll try to write a cleaned up/reorganized version of the HD list.
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I'm still typing out the comments for the HD combos. But I have a suggestion, I was wondering if it was possible to put a Legend or Key of the notations (similar to the Kim wiki) in the Leona wiki so that it helps newer people understand them and makes it easier to read combos?
Also I see Leona doesn't have a "quick combo reference" section like many of the other characters. So it would be useful if she also had one. In fact, the wiki already has combos that can be used for a section like that:
0 Stocks, No Drive
- ANYWHERE s.C (2) / s.D (2), f+B, air qcb+A = 174 dmg
- LOW cr.Bx2, st.B, f+B, air qcb+A = 175 dmg
- CORNER s.C (2) / s.D (2), f+B, air qcb+C, d~u+C = 222 dmg
- ANYWHERE nj.D, (air) qcb+A = 127 dmg
1 Stock, No Drive
- LOW cr.B, st.B, f+B, (air) qcf hcb+P = 290 dmg
- ANYWHERE st.C, f+B, air qcf,hcb+P = 310 dmg
- ANYWHERE nj.D, (air) qcf hcb+P = 279 dmg
1 Stock, 1 Drive
- CORNER s.C, f.B, air qcb+C, d~u+C, [DC] b~f+D, qcf,hcb+P = 428 dmg
Again just a suggestion.
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I'm still typing out the comments for the HD combos. But I have a suggestion, I was wondering if it was possible to put a Legend or Key of the notations (similar to the Kim wiki) in the Leona wiki so that it helps newer people understand them and makes it easier to read combos?
Also I see Leona doesn't have a "quick combo reference" section like many of the other characters. So it would be useful if she also had one.
Sup man, we sure can insert a notation legend for Leona's combo section. Make a list and I'll copy and paste it over. Honestly we need that for all the pages, haha.
Also, I added a quick combo reference with your submitted combos. Check it out here: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29#Quick_Combo_Reference (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leona_Heidern_%28XIII%29#Quick_Combo_Reference)
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Alright, I copy/pasted the Legend from the other character wiki's I've seen but changed, took out, and/or added stuff (if that's ok?) so it reflected Leona's combos and Leona herself. What I'm curious about, is when I typed out the notations for the "charge motions", are they typed out properly? Or should they be written out in some other different way?
LEGEND
qcf = Quarter Circle Forward
qcb = Quarter Circle Backward
hcf = Half Circle Forward
hcb = Half Circle Backward
d~u = Charge Down then Up
b~f = Charge Back then Forward
f. = Forward
d. = Crouching or down
s. = Standing close attack
j. = Jumping
nj. = Neutral Jump
(3) = The number of hits needed to Drive Cancel
DC = Drive Cancel
HD = HD Activate
HDC = Hyper Drive Cancel
SC = Super Cancel
CH = Counter Hit
MC = Max Cancel
P = A or C
K = B or D
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d~u = Charge Down then Up
b~f = Charge Back then Forward
This is fine, thanks man.
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Also on the "Gameplay Notes" section where it discusses Leona's special moves. I think the names of the special moves (at the beginning of each paragraph in that section) should be bolded and/or underlined so its easier to read and easier to know what you are reading about basically.
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Hey there gang, I've been sick the last two days so I haven't gotten to look at this much. I'll start looking into metered combos so mainly the practical ones are listed. In the meantime here's some comments in the meterless part:
cl.D, charge b~f+K = 141 dmg - Think this can be removed, as a confirm from cl.D should just go into f+B, air qcb+A.
d.C, charge d~u+P = 174 dmg - This should be removed too, as you would only do this as a punish, and f+B, air qcb+A does more damage.
nj.D, (air) qcb+A = 127 dmg - Listed twice now, so this one can be removed.
cr.B, cr.C, d~u+C = 168 dmg - I'm not sure about this one, as with a confirm you can just go into f+B, air qcb+A. You could frametrap with the cr.C, but the d~u+C's a risky confirm. I'm not sure what else you could do off a frametrap cr.C though on block. Does b~f+A combo from cr.C?
s.C, f+B, air qcb+A = 202 dmg - Also redundant, so this can be removed.
s.C, f+B, air qcb+C, d~u+C = 222 dmg - This only works in the corner, so this should be separated into a corner combos section.
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Thanks Ryujin, I deleted the ones you mentioned.
ESB Cancel, check your pm's. :)
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Leona Strategy and Team Position section is updated. There will be more to follow later.
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Leona Strategy and Team Position section is updated. There will be more to follow later.
Looks nice. Some stuff I'd add to that:
- You mention j.A as her fastest overhead, but her nj.D is faster - with discretion though, as you mentioned with j.A.
- When cornered you might want to mention being careful with Leona's guard cancel CD. The horizontal range on it isn't very good, so people with the right spacing can bait it out.