Dream Cancel Forum
Sakazaki Dojo => Training Room => Topic started by: davidkong07 on February 07, 2012, 06:00:41 AM
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Hello all,
My name is David Kong. I'm a tournament player in SoCal, and KoFXIII is my main game. I'm not a top player by any means, but I'd like to think that I know a thing or two about how the game works.
In any case, I'd like to volunteer my knowledge and time to answer any and all of your questions pertaining to the game. There is a TON of great info floating around wikis and such, but I know that having a personal guide can be much easier than browsing online for info.
Ask me anything about KoFXIII or playing competitively in general! If I don't know the answer, I will consult someone who does and get back to you. Please refer any of your noob friends here as well, as I will patiently answer your questions personally, no matter how stupid they are! lol
I play King, Vice, Robert, and Leona, so any detailed character questions about them I can probably answer. Other than that, my character specific knowledge is limited, so I may or may not be able to provide answers directly. But, I will definitely try to find out for you! This can be a learning process for all of us haha.
This is my effort to contribute and educate the community, so please don't hesitate to ask anything! I specialize in pointing beginners down the right path, so please have an open mind, because I'm only here to help YOU!
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Ok I'll bite ^_^
1. What do you think are the best situations for a standing normal hit confirm into command normal combo.
2. What is the best situation for using a CD attack? How often should you be using them during a match.
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Ok I'll bite ^_^
1. What do you think are the best situations for a standing normal hit confirm into command normal combo.
2. What is the best situation for using a CD attack? How often should you be using them during a match.
1. Well, the absolute BEST situation to use standing close C or D hit confirms into command normal (and presumably into a full combo) would be for a punish! If you ever block something that is unsafe enough or you see a DP whiff in front of you, then your goal should be to hit confirm with a beefy standing normal into a command normal. As you may know, almost all command normals are cancelable into special moves if canceled into during a string. This will give you optimal damage as well as opportunities to drive cancel/ HD activate for massive damage.
Besides punishing, standing normals which lead into command normals are usually landed while playing footsies. If you have the presence of mind to hit confirm your stand normals because your opponent has whiffed something very predictable, then this would also be a great situation to cancel into command normals and follow with a full combo.
2. The use of CD attacks is VERY character specific. In KoF13, every character can WHIFF CANCEL or regular cancel stand CD into ANY grounded special move or desperation move. This mechanic is MUCH MORE useful for characters who MOVE FORWARD during their stand CD animations, because moving forward gives you the ability to KARA CANCEL your special moves. Examples of characters that benefit from this are Vice and EX Kyo. By whiff canceling stand CD into a special move, these characters get extra range on whatever special move they do.
For example, Vice's sleeve attack (Decide) has 3 versions: B version, D version, and EX version. All three of these versions have a very specific range. With the use of whiff cancel stand CD, Vice now has SIX different ranges of her sleeve attack, because she can add a very specific range to all three versions of this attack with her canceled CD, giving her a much more dynamic and unpredictable neutral game.
This happens with other characters as well, to varying degrees. It is up to you to find out what can be done with your characters' whiff cancel CD attacks.
Besides canceling, some CD attacks also grant special properties to the character. For example, both King and Clark's stand CD make them airborne, so that they can avoid SOME low hitting attacks. You can use this to your advantage while playing footsies, and catch your opponent off guard.
It is also VERY IMPORTANT to note that COUNTER HIT CD attacks, whether STANDING OR JUMPING, grant you a juggle state so that you can follow up with any attack. Again, this benefits some characters more than others. Vice and Shen can get HD combos off of counter hit CD, while other characters can only get another jumping attack.
The bottom line, however, is that you should use CD attacks in the same manner as you use any other move: ONLY IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY ARE USEFUL. Learn what your character specifically can do with standing or jump CD, based on the hitboxes and frame data, and STAY SAFE.
I hope this was helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask!
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Definitely going to make use of this advice thanks.
One more question..
What is a good strategy when facing an opponent whose rush down is difficult to deal with especially in the corner. Good example is against EX Kyo. I faced an opponent was constantly barraging me with high and low attacks and some of his highs consisted of his command normal down+C.
I know that standing lp beats a hop, hop beats a low attack, and low beats a standing but in this situation it is difficult to guess so what am I looking for in these cases. I know that its also possible that some of his move may have priority correct?
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What is a good strategy when facing an opponent whose rush down is difficult to deal with especially in the corner. Good example is against EX Kyo. I faced an opponent was constantly barraging me with high and low attacks and some of his highs consisted of his command normal down+C.
I know that standing lp beats a hop, hop beats a low attack, and low beats a standing but in this situation it is difficult to guess so what am I looking for in these cases. I know that its also possible that some of his move may have priority correct?
Excellent question!
First off, you should always remember that EVERY character's rush down will be VERY difficult to deal with in the corner if you are facing a skilled player. This is because when you are in the corner, you lack options for proper spacing, whereas your opponent doesn't lack any options. Obviously, this is very advantageous for the player NOT in the corner. So, when approaching this situation the first thing to do is to ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that you are at a disadvantage, and RESPECT the fact that your opponent has more options than you.
Second, just because you are in the corner DOES NOT mean your fundamentals are any less important. You should STILL be utilizing all of the options available to you to create a favorable situation. Many players struggle in the corner because they panic and desperately try to jump or roll out, often without paying attention to staying safe. Jumping and rolling are still VERY valid options in the corner, but as always, make sure you're doing it in a way that is safe. WATCH and REACT to what your opponent is doing, rather than making decisions out of panic.
Third, remember that GUARD CANCEL CD IS THE GREAT EQUALIZER. What I mean by this is, no matter how skilled your opponent is at rushing you down, if you can block even one close range attack, you can spend one meter to get out of the corner with a guard cancel CD (blowback) attack. If done correctly, THIS WILL WORK 100% OF THE TIME. Just be careful to not do this against very shallow jump/hop in attacks or attacks with excellent range, as your guard cancel CD will whiff, and you can even be punished for it! Examples of attacks that you SHOULD NOT guard cancel CD are Mr. Karate's invisible palm, and EX Kyo's rekka at max range. As a rule of thumb, the most reliable attacks to guard cancel CD are CLOSE RANGE GROUNDED NORMALS. Watch for the first grounded hit of your opponent's block string, and guard cancel CD that sucker!
If you are having specific problems against certain characters, like EX Kyo, the first thing to do is to remember what you're getting hit by, and learn everything you can about that move. It's great that you remember Kyo's command normal, jump + down C, is hard to deal with. I can tell you from first hand experience that Kyo's jump + down C has an amazing hitbox, is extremely fast, is really hard to anti air with a normal, and can cross up easily! It's really really good. But that's not unique to EX Kyo. Every character in the game has something really really good. But, in this case, knowing is half the battle! Think about it this way: your opponent knows that move is really good. He's going to use it. Observe when he uses it, and how he wants to use it. This is the essence of "downloading" a player. When you have a grip on his jump + down C habits, you can make a statement by choosing an option that specifically beats it, such as a super or uppercut. Doing this once or twice makes an EXPLICIT STATEMENT that you know what's up, you're expecting him to jump down C, and you're ready for it. Fighting games are an intellectual competition. Once you have made this statement clear to your opponent, I'll bet you he stops abusing that move. At the very worst, you can at least block the attack more often, which is great as well. Of course, this is MUCH easier said than done, and these type of skills take countless hours to develop. But that is why being good at this game is so rewarding to begin with, right? ;)
One final note, the term "priority" should be AVOIDED at all costs. It is very misleading, and technically does not exist in most fighting games. When players talk about "priority", they are actually talking about specific interactions which occur due to hit box and frame data properties. For instance, EX Kyo's rekka does not beat your standing normals because it has "priority", but rather because it has guard point, which means there is no hittable hurtbox on a portion of his body during the move's active frames. K's crouch B does not beat most other character's crouch B because it has "priority", but rather because it has fewer startup frames than most crouch B attacks. "Priority" sounds like it implies that move X will always beat move Y in every situation, which is NEVER true! There is always an answer for every situation. I hope this was helpful!
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So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?
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Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
I have a quick question. If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?
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So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?
Unfortunately, there are only 3 ways of stopping Mr. Kof from doing his Ash combo on you:
1. Be better than he is at KoF.
2. Introduce him to your attractive Asian sister.
3. Stop jumping.
Beer only works on me and Hell Pockets. Beer will only work on Jose and The Answer if it is Tecate, and Team Chaos can be defeated by too much Jose Cuervo (aka NeoMaXX).
Mr. KoF is immune to beer because he is Vietnamese.
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Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
I have a quick question. If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?
Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)
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Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)
I'm not sure if I understand how to do this, I think jumps/hops that land out of range are kind of easy to tell?
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Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)
I'm not sure if I understand how to do this, I think jumps/hops that land out of range are kind of easy to tell?
You're keeping in mind that this person is holding back and trying to press C at the right time (Or mash it) in order to hit you, keep you away. Best thing to do is to give them something to react to.
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Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
I have a quick question. If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?
I apologize for taking so long to respond to your question, it is a very detailed issue and I wanted to make sure I cover as much as I can.
The short answer to your question is: Sometimes. If your opponent is using the close C/D option select throw in the IDEAL SITUATIONS, as far as I know, there is nothing you can do to explicitly PUNISH it. However, there is a common situation where it can be punished, which I will explain below.
First, it is important to know that there is much that can be done to NEUTRALIZE the option select once you become more AWARE of the situations it is used in. I will first divide the situations in which you will encounter this option select into OFFENSIVE SITUATIONS and DEFENSIVE SITUATIONS.
When you are on the OFFENSE, your opponent is likely to use this option select to throw you when:
A. You have made them block a shallow jump in (an attack that was blocked very high), and there was not enough block stun from your attack to allow you to follow with a true block string after you land. Between the time you jumped in and the instant you start your grounded block string, you will get grabbed if they are close enough.
B. (Like you mentioned above) You go for an empty hop/jump in mixup. If they press C or D faster than you initiate your mixup, you get grabbed (which can be likely, because it takes you a few frames to land).
Believe it or not, both of the above situations are identical for your opponent. Their mentality is "He jumped, I'm going to block whatever he does in the air, and try to throw him right when he lands." This is a good option select because even if you predict the throw and try to jump or backdash away, your opponent's standing C or D will come out and probably anti air you. The absolute BEST way to get them to stop doing this is to DO TRUE BLOCK STRINGS. You may wonder how this will help your empty hop mixups, but bear with me and I will explain.
To do true block strings after a blocked jump/hop in, you must MAKE SURE that your air attack is blocked LOW ENOUGH. Now, remember that it's not necessary to make them block the jump in as low as possible, just make sure that your jump in is blocked LOW ENOUGH. By making them block your jump/hop in relatively low, you are decreasing the time between when you land and the end of the block stun induced by your attack. If you are blocked too high, it will take more time for you to land than it will for your opponent to do something (in this case, throw you). Another way to obtain the same result is to jump in with your air CD (blowback) attack. Air CD for all characters grants them very significant block stun, and give you more time to follow with a true block string once you have landed. IF THERE IS NO FRAME GAP BETWEEN WHEN YOU JUMP IN AND WHEN YOU START YOUR GROUNDED STRING, YOU CAN'T BE GRABBED!
You will find that doing this will make your empty hop mixups more effective, because your opponent will be trained into thinking "He jumped. If I block his jump in he's going to do a full block string. I can't grab him, I have to play defense." Now keep in mind, THE DEFINITION OF A MIXUP INCLUDES ASPECTS OF BEING UNPREDICTABLE AND TAKING RISK. If your opponent is predicting your empty hop mixups accurately, then the issue does not reside with the C/D option select, but rather with your own mixup game.
When you are on DEFENSE, your opponent will commonly use this option select against you after a hard knockdown. The proper way to do this is to approach the grounded player, hold back, and then press C or D at a slightly delayed timing. If the defending player wakes up with a reversal, the option select will block because the C or D didn't come out before the reversal induced block stun. If the defender wakes up and blocks, the option select will throw. If the defending player back dashes or jumps on wakeup, the option select will anti air with stand C or D. The benefit of being the defending player is that he has 11 frames of grab invincibility after a hard knockdown, making the option select punishable. Your two options in the situation are to wake up with a command grab or a fast low attack. Remember that you cannot do a normal throw from a crouching position. This means that the option selecting player has to be standing. Therefore, any fast low attack will beat the option select if you are facing it AFTER A HARD KNOCKDOWN. A wakeup command grab will also work, for (hopefully) obvious reasons. As far as I know, this is the only situation where you will be able to consistently punish this option select, even if it is performed correctly.
I hope this was helpful! Let me know if you have any further questions!
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So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?
Unfortunately, there are only 3 ways of stopping Mr. Kof from doing his Ash combo on you:
1. Be better than he is at KoF.
2. Introduce him to your attractive Asian sister.
3. Stop jumping.
Beer only works on me and Hell Pockets. Beer will only work on Jose and The Answer if it is Tecate, and Team Chaos can be defeated by too much Jose Cuervo (aka NeoMaXX).
Mr. KoF is immune to beer because he is Vietnamese.
So in that case....What's the match up of Mr. KOF vs Jack Daniel or any hard drinks? 0-10 in favor of drinks? Sadly I'm the only child in my family so I have no sister to offer... I have to jump because Mr. KOF is staring into my soul and use some jedi mind tricks to force me to jump.
PS As I'm typing this, I can see him yell "OCV" in my mind while he waits. No, he doesn't sleep, he just waits.
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So in that case....What's the match up of Mr. KOF vs Jack Daniel or any hard drinks? 0-10 in favor of drinks? Sadly I'm the only child in my family so I have no sister to offer... I have to jump because Mr. KOF is staring into my soul and use some jedi mind tricks to force me to jump.
PS As I'm typing this, I can see him yell "OCV" in my mind while he waits. No, he doesn't sleep, he just waits.
The match up between Mr. KoF and Jack Daniels is 5-5. Sometimes, Mr. KoF wins. Other times, Jack Daniels wins. It goes back and forth.
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I haven't played fighting games in a long long time (and before was never serious). Anyways, one of the hurdles I'm trying to climb is attempting to put together a team for KOF, so here are some of my questions:
Why did you pick Robert over Ryo? Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98? And when forming a team, is it better to diversify (ex: grappler, zone, balanced) or just pick what appeals to you?
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I haven't played fighting games in a long long time (and before was never serious). Anyways, one of the hurdles I'm trying to climb is attempting to put together a team for KOF, so here are some of my questions:
Why did you pick Robert over Ryo? Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98? And when forming a team, is it better to diversify (ex: grappler, zone, balanced) or just pick what appeals to you?
This is an interesting question, but for the sake of accurately answering it, I have to ask some questions as well (or rather, you have to ask YOURSELF some questions).
What is your GOAL when playing KoFXIII? Why are you playing this game? How good are you trying to get? Do you plan on being a COMPETITIVE player?
If you do not plan on entering tournaments, then play your 3 favorite characters in any order you please. It's as simple as that. Having fun is the most important thing.
However, if your goal is to be competitive, then there are a variety of issues to consider. First and foremost, which characters appeal to you? Try playing these characters first. Learn them DEEPLY. What I mean by this is, learn AND PRACTICE the various combos you need to know, as well as the nuanced situations in which your moveset is useful (practicing setups and multi faceted offense is essential). To be considered competitive in KoFXIII, it is ESSENTIAL to know an optimal meterless BnB (both midscreen and in the corner) as well as the most practical meter using combos for each character you play. I recommend learning the optimal 1 bar 1 drive, 2 bar 1 drive, and 2 bar HD combos for every character you decide to play. Learn the best normals used in hop offense. Learn the best anti airs. Learn the most optimal hit confirms. This takes many, MANY hours, and cannot be done unless you play against real people for an extended period of time. AFTER you learn all of this, ask yourself two things:
A. Do I still like this character?
B. Can I WIN with this character?
If you answered no to either of these questions, drop that character. Drop the character, and don't look back.
Although this may sound harsh, as a competitive player it is a massive waste of time to play a character who you feel is a burden. As a competitive player, your goal is to win. If you feel that your character cannot win, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Keep in mind that I'm not saying you should just "pick a top tier", but rather that even good characters just might not suite your play style or mentality. For example, Duo Lon can be a really scary top tier character in the right hands, but if you aren't the kind of player who can utilize his style of play even after tons of practice, then in your hands he's garbage, and it probably isn't worth it to play him. AS A COMPETITIVE PLAYER, IT IS IMPORTANT TO PLAY THE CHARACTERS WHO YOU BELIEVE WILL BRING YOU THE MOST COMPETITIVE SUCCESS.
It is also VERY IMPORTANT to note that there is a HUGE difference between losing because your character is bad, and losing because YOU are bad. Sometimes this can be a hard concept to really wrap your head around, but always ask yourself if you are losing because of glaring character weaknesses, or (more likely) because you fought someone who is straight up better than you.
To answer your questions specifically, I picked Robert because his normals are awesomely suited to my playstyle, he has a taco crossup, a command grab, and he's a badass. I never put in the time to learn Ryo, he never appealed to me (but I still think he's a very competitive character). I have never played Chris in any KoF game, so I cannot answer this question directly. I will consult other players in the community for you to see if they have any suggestions.
Diversity of character types on a team does not matter at all. I know a few strong players who play K', Kyo, and Iori as their team. Although I think this is very lame and boring (lol), it works for them. You can even play Raiden, Daimon and Clark on a team if you know how to do it properly! One thing that is very important, however, is TEAM ORDER. This is because your first character is limited to 3 meters, and your second character is limited to 4 meters. Because of this, you will find that it is more practical for your second and third characters to use meter rather than your first character. The implications of this are nuanced and depend on your specific team composition. It is your responsibility to determine the best uses your characters have for meter, and then to order them accordingly.
I hope this was helpful! Let me know if you have any more questions!
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I hope you don't mind me answering this David:
Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98?
I wish Chris was in this game, because I mained him in 98 and a bit in 2002.
Chris is a unique character but the VERY, VERY closest I would personally say is similar to him by a small, margin has to be Athena. They both have:
* a teleport (qcf+K),
* both of their cr.D have low, flat hitbox profiles
* they both are fast,
* their st. B's can be used to stop hops (Athena's has a more high angle though),
* they both have good j.CD's (Chris' is better though)
But that's all. No annoying flip command throw, no slide, no easy crossup j.D (Athena's j.B isn't bad), no j.B, etc.... I play Athena like Chris but with a psycho ball and reflector.
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No problem Desmond, you saved me some work! haha
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Thanks guys! I appreciate the in depth responses of both. Some of Ash's normals looked vaguely similar (perhaps that was wishful thinking) so I've been trying him out. I'll pick up Athena though.
Do you have any tips on how to play her as a rough Chris? While I remember enjoying him, I do remember the specifics like you have! Also, out of curiosity, who else do you have on your team?
Is there anything like a WakeUp Shoryuken podcast for KOF? Dream Cancel Radio appears to have sputtered out and I'd love to hear some discussion on characters, strategies, and community news!
Thanks again!
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Do you have any tips on how to play her as a rough Chris? While I remember enjoying him, I do remember the specifics like you have! Also, out of curiosity, who else do you have on your team?
To be honest, I don't think you should play her as she is Chris because she doesn't have many of the tools on the ground close up and in the air as he did. Yeah, they have a few move similarities but the overall they aren't the same.
Is there anything like a WakeUp Shoryuken podcast for KOF? Dream Cancel Radio appears to have sputtered out and I'd love to hear some discussion on characters, strategies, and community news!
I was the one that produced the show and we were thinking of moving to eLive for some live shows but kinda ran into a brickwall on the technical side. We were also getting a little busy ourselves with finding time to record the shows and gather people on skype for it, but honestly I would love to bring it back for more gameplay focused discussion, we just gotta get the right guests for it.
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To be honest, I don't think you should play her as she is Chris because she doesn't have many of the tools on the ground close up and in the air as he did. Yeah, they have a few move similarities but the overall they aren't the same.
That's a shame! I think more than specials, I enjoy characters with solid normals (which I felt Chris had). Sort of bummed out that another character didn't show up with a similar moveset, I rather enjoyed him.
I was the one that produced the show and we were thinking of moving to eLive for some live shows but kinda ran into a brickwall on the technical side. We were also getting a little busy ourselves with finding time to record the shows and gather people on skype for it, but honestly I would love to bring it back for more gameplay focused discussion, we just gotta get the right guests for it.
I understand. Life can get in the way of things. Using WakeUp SRK as an example, I'd love to see something similar to the Viscant episodes. Even though I'm not a Marvel player, I enjoy his commentary and insight immensely.
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I've tried a ton of characters out and now I need a helping hand or nudge to get me to just choose a team and play them.
Here are a few that I've enjoyed playing (or played against):
Ash, Shen Woo, Fireball Kyo, EX Kyo, EX Iori, Robert, Andy, Ryo, Benimaru.
Since I lack the knowledge of how these character perform with and without meter, could anyone give me an idea of how to balance them as a team?
I'd like to add that I am leaning towards a EX Kyo, Robert, Shen Woo team. For an idea of my gameplay style: I enjoy controlling the Neutral space well and solid characters with solid normals.
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I'd like to add that I am leaning towards a EX Kyo, Robert, Shen Woo team.
If this is true, you have just answered your own question. Learn these three characters deeply, like I mentioned before. All three of these characters are very competitive, and arguably top tier. Go with your instinct. There is no need to second guess yourself regarding which characters you like to use at this point in your learning process.
In terms of team order, in this case I would personally recommend either of the following orders:
Ex Kyo First, Robert Second, Shen Woo Last
Shen Woo First, Ex Kyo Second, Robert Last
Shen Woo is an extremely versatile meter user. He can succeed in any position. Contrary to what some would argue, Shen is an excellent first character. He is also one of the best anchors in the game. His comeback potential with meter is simply monstrous. He can do his optimal HD combo both midscreen as well as in the corner.
Robert functions extremely well with meter, especially because he has excellent (but very hard to execute) mid screen and corner HD combos. You will find yourself using mostly 1 meter no drive, 2 meter 1 drive, or 2 meter HD combos with Robert.
EX Kyo has excellent 1 drive 1 meter combos. With Robert and Shen Woo as teammates, he is the weakest anchor out of the three. He also does very well as a first character.
Of course, these are only my suggestions. Your goal as a player should be to learn your team to a degree where you know much more about them than I do. Eventually you will have to make your own decision regarding what is the most optimal team order.
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Howsit, Im a kof noob and a really like the game. Please can you give me a short breakdown on this video
KOF XIII：知ってると得する（かもしれない）Part.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvGZE7RIlew#ws)
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Howsit, Im a kof noob and a really like the game. Please can you give me a short breakdown on this video
KOF XIII：知ってると得する（かもしれない）Part.2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvGZE7RIlew#ws)
Although I don't speak Japanese, this video is showing that half circle inputs will be simplified in KoFXIII Climax.
Basically, any half circle inputs that require you to do ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd will now only require you to do ;bk ;dn ;fd.
Similarly, and half circle back inputs that require ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk will now only require that you do ;fd ;dn ;bk
This means you don't have to hit diagonals when doing half cirlces. Fireballs and uppercuts will stay the same, and WILL require you to hit the diagonal motions.
THIS IS ONLY VALID FOR KoFXIII CLIMAX IN THE ARCADES, SO IF YOU'RE PLAYING ON CONSOLE YOU STILL HAVE TO HIT DIAGONALS WHEN DOING HALF CIRCLES.
This change should not make any difference in competitive game play. Anyone who is having trouble doing half circle motions is probably still a beginner in the learning stage.
I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any further questions!
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Thanks davidkong07 , really appreciate it. :)
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Hello, i am just trying to pick up KOF13, I have never played a kof game before i am normally a umvc3 and sf4 player but i enjoyed watching the streams of kof so much I decided i'd attempt to play it lol. I have done the tutorials and feel very overwhelmed, i know i would like to try and play clark but idk if hes good or garbage. I dont normally play grapplers and am just looking for a little advice on where to start in the game itself and any character suggestions, Thanks alot for your help!!
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Hello, i am just trying to pick up KOF13, I have never played a kof game before i am normally a umvc3 and sf4 player but i enjoyed watching the streams of kof so much I decided i'd attempt to play it lol. I have done the tutorials and feel very overwhelmed, i know i would like to try and play clark but idk if hes good or garbage. I dont normally play grapplers and am just looking for a little advice on where to start in the game itself and any character suggestions, Thanks alot for your help!!
Since you are a brand new player and feel overwhelmed, I recommend you take it slow and just enjoy yourself. Fool around with the game and see if you really enjoy it before committing to it hardcore.
The character trials in the game are useful sometimes, but for the most part they are all VERY impractical and are not meter optimized for damage. Don't stress about doing all the character trials, unless it's just something you really enjoy doing.
The coolest thing about KoFXIII for new players is that NO CHARACTER is garbage. You can play anyone you want and do well competitively. Clark is totally awesome and really scary. Make sure to use his air throw in your setups! For videos of Clark, check out players like BALA and Kane317. They have played Clark on various streams. Dig around these channels and I'm sure you'll find something:
twitch.tv/iplaywinner
twitch.tv/afterdarkgaming
twitch.tv/offcast
Try to meet up with your local scene. You will learn exponentially more playing with other people than you will playing by yourself. Since you are just learning, it should also be easy to get other players to play with you, since you won't be destroying them right away.
When you are in training mode, I recommend first practicing all of your bread and butter combos before moving on to setups. Concentrate on learning these basic combos for your characters:
1. Mid screen meterles max damage combo
2. Max damage combo into Level 2 super, no drive
3. Basic HD loop for your character
Start all of these combos with a jump or hop in C or D. This will get you used to the jumps in KoF. Once you have mastered this, there is a ton of more advanced stuff to learn. But don't even worry about that for now. Just jump in and explore the game! At this early stage, learning will come naturally with experience. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any further questions!
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hi,
is there a shortcut to do DP motion (in combo) when you are in crouch position ?
For example: 2lk, 2lk, DP.
Actually i'm doing this way: 2lk, 2lk, neutral, 623, but i have some troubles on the 2P side (i use arcade stick).
Thanks.
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hi,
is there a shortcut to do DP motion (in combo) when you are in crouch position ?
For example: 2lk, 2lk, DP.
Actually i'm doing this way: 2lk, 2lk, neutral, 623, but i have some troubles on the 2P side (i use arcade stick).
Thanks.
I do not know of a useful shortcut for DP from a crouch position. If you are having problems specifically on the 2P side but not on the 1P side, it is simply a muscle memory issue. I recommend simply grinding out some training mode on the 2P side for all of your relevant combos.
For further details on all the input shortcuts in the game, please see this thread started by Kane317:
http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1725.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1725.0)
I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any more questions!
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Well this is kinda important til once you reach a certain point. In case you're wondering what's the best HD combo to do for your characters:
KOF XIII [All Character Neo Max Combo] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LSWyZVWLfE#ws)
it does practical HD Combos with 2 full drives and 2 power bars from mid screen for all the characters in the game. Since most of these combos starts with jumping in, you can also start with down+B to HD Combo to Standing C or D whatever you need to do.
Don't worry about the trials and such. Those are something fun to do on your spare time.
Do not be afraid to ask and post videos of your matches in the characters thread and ask for tips and advices. Please also ask questions like what can I do in this situations or what was I getting hit by? Why did I do this? dont be afraid to ask for advices and apply it in causal matches. It doesn't hurt to ask.
Example: I would go over my matches with ESB about our set at FFA or UCI King of Friday Ranbat. He would tells me: what I did wrong/What was he looking for/What I was looking for/What we were scared of etc.
Remember: Fighting games are never meant to be played by one person, it's meant to be played by all and many.
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hey you wouldnt happen to go alex's arcade would you?
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yeah I do go to Alex's Arcade
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KoF newbie here. I am more of a defensive player so I like to keep things lame. Do I have a chance in KoF? Overall it seems like an aggressive game and I don't think I'll fit in.
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Oh man I need to get ESB Cancel in here
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KoF newbie here. I am more of a defensive player so I like to keep things lame. Do I have a chance in KoF? Overall it seems like an aggressive game and I don't think I'll fit in.
Great question! In KoFXIII, defense is just as important as offense. With that said, if you're used to being lame like Dhalsim is in SF4, you won't find a character like that in KoFXIII. There are characters that can zone well with projectiles and normals, but no character can win by doing nothing but zoning. Characters that play lame in KoFXIII also must utilize mixups, combos, and hit confirms to succeed.
If you want to keep things lame, you can still definitely succeed in KoFXIII. However, it will be harder to do than in games like SF4. Your anti airs will need to be seriously on point, and your blocking/alternate guarding must be great as well. In short, the answer to your question is that you can be lame to the degree that your opponent will let you be. KoFXIII is a very dynamic game, and just concentrating on defense or offense by itself will not bring you success.
Try playing some of these characters to see if they fit your playstyle:
Leona
Ash
Maxima
King
Robert
Saiki
Mai
Joe
Athena
I hope this was helpful, please let me know if you have any more questions!
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I hope this was helpful, please let me know if you have any more questions!
Yes that was very helpful. :) Just a few more small questions for now: the characters I'm working on at the moment are King, Ash and Athena. Out of those characters who works best as an anchor? Who should I put first to build meter with for my second character? Obviously this isn't like Marvel where you have assists (so team comp isn't as important) but I don't want to stick a meter-hog in my first slot you know?
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I hope this was helpful, please let me know if you have any more questions!
Yes that was very helpful. :) Just a few more small questions for now: the characters I'm working on at the moment are King, Ash and Athena. Out of those characters who works best as an anchor? Who should I put first to build meter with for my second character? Obviously this isn't like Marvel where you have assists (so team comp isn't as important) but I don't want to stick a meter-hog in my first slot you know?
In this case, I would say Ash would be the best anchor out of the three. Both King and Athena have relatively poor HD combos. Ash's HD combo coupled with Sans Coulette gives him the scariest comeback potential out of the three, although I don't believe Ash is a particularly strong anchor either. If you can't do his Sans Coulette and HD combos, he loses all of his value as an anchor.
King's best combos are her 1 meter 1 drive combos. Because of this, she makes a great point character. I would put Athena second, because combos ending with her level 2 EX super can be very good. Her drive cancel combos which start with command grab are also good. Therefore, my opinion for your team order would be:
King, Athena, Ash.
Of course, this is only my opinion. I only have a limited knowledge of Ash and Athena, so you may find a better order yourself as you play more. Feel free to experiment!
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Why most of pro play NEST Kyo instead of regular Kyo, is he powerfull ?
Then, how can i cancel hcb+D into st.C in HD mode ? Is there a trick ?
For example combo 12 of this video:
KOF XIII: Kyo combo tutorial - A closer look at Kyo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgLXa9ykRyw#ws)
Thanks.
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Both NESTS Kyo and regular Kyo are extremely good, arguably top tier characters. They simply have different play styles. NESTS Kyo has a great neutral ground game with his guard point rekkas, while regular Kyo has amazingly dynamic damage output with meter and his air super. Both have jump down + C, which is one of the best normal moves in the entire game.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any execution trick for the cancel you are talking about. As far as I know, you should never be able to cancel a special move into a normal. I recommend visiting the Kyo thread to ask this question.
The combo transcript provided by the video says that combo #12 is jump+C, std+C, df+D, (B+C) run in, std+C, df+D, hcb+D, qcf+D, qcfx2 A+C.
There is no hcb D into st. C involved.
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Hard Knockdowns. Is there an advantage to them? If so, whats the best way to defend after being hit by them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LSWyZVWLfE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LSWyZVWLfE)
it does practical HD Combos with 2 full drives and 2 power bars from mid screen for all the characters in the game. Since most of these combos starts with jumping in, you can also start with down+B to HD Combo to Standing C or D whatever you need to do.
I just looked and I have some commentary on this video.
Combos are not full screen
It's more important to learn a 2Ex Hd combo full screen than corner one when starting.
More than that, some of them are quite complicated for the damage done, and might be easier, and deal more if the video didn't have making neomax combo in mind.
Try playing some of these characters to see if they fit your playstyle:
Leona
Ash
Maxima
King
Robert
Saiki
Mai
Joe
Athena
I think you forgot Kensou, maybe the most effective hadotrap character of the whole game with his amazing Dp move. And maybe the easier to play in a first time. Plus he has amazing tools to play an aggressive game.
At the end of the day I recommend him as a lot of people who beginned and this game and most of them love him.
Hard Knockdowns. Is there an advantage to them? If so, whats the best way to defend after being hit by them.
Mixups, and safe jumps essentially.
Because if you're not hardnocked down the fast recovering might throw you out of most of the wakeup mixups or safe jump attempt (because your opponent must know before if you will wake up faster or not). But to fast recover on wakeup carry you very fast into the corner. Other disagrement after a fast wakeup you can be grab at the first frame, so be careful (And forget it against grapler in corner).
By the way you might be able to dp some people who aren't use to play against fast recovering player.
Nevertheless on an hardknockdown the mixups options are very strong and some top players are using option select on them which beats most recovering solutions.
[spoiler]
Safe jump example :
[KOF XIII] Kim Safe Jump Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0k5k0wfYk#)
The goal of a safe jump is to jump on a waking opponent without letting him dp in reaction by guarding the dp because of the landing. But it's not he only kind of option select.
Rolls especially are easy to option select on one side by doing a run input while landing on a safe jump (you must imput the run a little before landing). If the jump whiff the character will run in the buffed direction, there is a trick to option select both direction but it's near one frame timing and really hard to do (you must input as p1 646 to run forward if your opponent rolls backward and because of the buffer if your opponent rolls forward he will cross down you transforming one 6 input into another 4 and make you run in the good direction).
It's just a general exemple but it's the kind of thing which can be done on a hardknockdown.[/spoiler]
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Hard Knockdowns. Is there an advantage to them? If so, whats the best way to defend after being hit by them.
I apologize for the long delay in answering this question, I've been quite busy recently.
Let's go over the differences between a hard and soft knockdown. As mentioned by the previous poster, a soft knockdown can be avoided by using a roll recovery. This roll recovery has no grab invincibility, but allows your opponent to move out of the way of more pressure. If you correctly read a recovery roll, you can punish with a grab, or simply continue your pressure.
A hard knockdown means you cannot recovery roll, but you have 11 frames of grab invincibility on wakeup. A hard knockdown guarantees that your opponent will take a very specific amount of time to wakeup, meaning that you can practice and apply true meaty wakeup pressure afterwards. In this sense, there is a definite advantage to hard knockdowns.
To defend against high level pressure after a hard knockdown, you must understand exactly what your opponent is going for. A wakeup roll will always lose to a perfectly timed meaty attack or command grab, so rolling on wakeup should be done ONLY if you see a proper opening or mistimed pressure. To counter any kind of hit, you can do an invincible reversal attack, such as an uppercut. This works just like in most other 2D fighting games. Remember, that the most solid option on wakeup is blocking. Blocking can be a very good idea, especially if you have meter for a guard cancel CD or invincible guard cancel roll.
To answer your question directly, THE BEST WAY to defend yourself after a hard knockdown will vary, depending on if you KNOW EXACTLY what your opponent is doing. Even though I have suggested some good common sense options, there is no catch all answer to every wakeup situation. It will largely depend on the matchup and the meaty setup your opponent is using.
I hope this was helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions!
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No doubt you're already tired of answering these kinds of questions, but I'm chest deep in KOF and I'm treading water.
I'm practically a stranger to fighting games, having been introduced with SSF4 in 2010. But since then, I've tried to play a wide variety of fighting games, Like UMVC3, 3SO, HD Turbo Remix, Tekken 5 and so on. But none of them can match up to the amount of just... STUFF, there is in KOF XIII.
One reason that I wanted to get this game, is that I heard it's very offense oriented, and more focused on rushdown and aggression. That's always been a big problem of mine, is to apply pressure, ranged or close-up. Truth is... I'm never terribly confident in my fighting ability. I'm always too afraid to eat a reversal or miss my links so I rarely go on the attack. And more often than not I eat in towards the end when I'm being overwhelmed. No amount of practice really built up my confidence, cause I'd drop a combo, beat myself up over it and try too hard or too little to get back into the fight and lose. I tend to play a either space control or a poke/punish game style, but I want to force myself to come out of my shell a bit more and try to get some aggression into my game style.
I've had the game for a couple days and I have some grasp of the just the hops and some very basic combos, but nothing mastered yet. One big thing that's holding me back from trying to enjoy the game is the execution required for some of just the BnB's. My team right now is Terry/Diamon/Robert, and just getting some of their Super Cancels to happen is really wearing on my wrist. I can't seem to get the timing right, or much of the time I can't get the move out at all! This game does look fun, it really does! But I'm just having a really, REALLY hard time getting into it.
Sadly I'm out in Nevada, where there's no real local fighting scene, just EVO once a year. And I doubt my car could handle the summer trips from Vegas to LA and back again just to practice. And I keep odd hours as far as online goes, on top of being a complete n00b at the time of posting.
tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?
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tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?
Before David gets here to answer your question, welcome first of all. Glad you're liking XIII so far, but don't worry if it takes time to getting used to. Of all the current-gen fighters, XIII is likely the most execution heavy, especially with the other fighters you've played, it'll take some time getting used to.
In regards to your style, you have the ability to change up playstyles as you go, and you'll want to with most characters. Space control and poke/punish is good, but the mobility options in KOF make it paramount to take advantage of rushdown.
For your team right now, if you haven't been to trial mode yet, here's a few combos to practice with for starters (forgive me if you already know the notations):
Terry: cr.(crouching) ;a, cr. ;b, qcb ( ;dn ;db ;bk) ;a
cr. ;b, cr. ;b, st.(standing) ;b, qcb ;b
Robert: st. ;c, ;fd ;b, ;fd ;a, dp (dragon punch - ;fd ;dn ;df) ;c
cr. ;b, cr. ;b, st. ;fd ;b, hcf( ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd) ;b
Daimon: st. ;a, st. ;b, dp ;b
st. ;b, hcb,f( ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd) ;c
You can jump-in with ;c or ;d to start these too. Try doing these quicker than you might be used to with other fighters.
We've got a wiki for XIII here (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_King_of_Fighters_XIII) if you want some more in-depth stuff, and wikis for Terry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terry_Bogard_(XIII)), Daimon (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Goro_Daimon_(XIII)), and Robert (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Robert_Garcia_(XIII)).
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Thank you kindly, good sir, for all that info and the welcome!
I actually did hit the SRK wiki for KOF XIII before coming here and brushed up some on the game. But I appreciate the combo tips either way.
I tend to play a strong zoning/space control type game in any fighter. Imagine a circle around a fighter. With me, I basically play like 'This is my space. You don't come in unless I invite you'. Characters like Sagat, Guile, Chun-Li, Taskmaster, Chris, Trish, Hwoarang, Juri, and so on. Those characters all have strong normals and projectiles to put up a wall, which I like doing just to frustrate my opponent.
Since your post, I went through a few more characters and just tried some BnBs for everyone in the game, to get a feel for whichever is the easiest to pull off and if it fits my fight style. The first character so far that's clicked for me is Elizabeth. She feels fantastic to play, and she controls space fantastically well. And I can do her combos! Even her Super Cancels!! Also helps that KOF DOES have shortcuts, which I have be abusing judiciously.
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For space control, I'd also keep Ryo in mind. His normals and fireball make him one of the best in that department to me, that and his parries are great once you can really utilize them. I've always thought of him as like a castle, heavy-hitting, sunken into the ground, and often ready for your attacks.
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Is there any shortcuts for doing HCB x2? I know that there is a Shortcut page and that has helped me in practice but I have problems doing the HCB x2 motion on a fightstick. If there isn't one time to grind me some motions
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Sadly I'm out in Nevada, where there's no real local fighting scene, just EVO once a year. And I doubt my car could handle the summer trips from Vegas to LA and back again just to practice. And I keep odd hours as far as online goes, on top of being a complete n00b at the time of posting.
This may not be thread appropriate but Vegas actually has a decent scene for KoF with a few really strong players.
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ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?
Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.
And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?
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ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?
Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.
And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?
Here's my noobish attempt at answering some of these:
Doubt there's an anti-mashing mechanism in the game, I would just try to know my character well enough to see what combos the best. Not every light normal will combo, or even combo the same way. Something I learned the hard way when I had random select.
Wake-up inputs, I'm still learning that myself. With obserivng King the only input I've seen very successful with wake-up is EX Trap Shot; anything else doesn't seem reliable.
Jump-in's, I'd say aim for your opponents waist or lower. The arcade version use to be hitting upper body was ok and hitstun would let you continue. You have to adjust this and aim a little lower, almost right before you hit the ground. Took a lot more practice with me, but hopefully a lot less with you.
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Hey guys, I just wanted to quickly post here and apologize for the time it's taking me to answer your questions. I've just been soooo busy lately that I haven't found the time to do so. Rest assured that I'll answer everything within the next few days. Thanks for your patience!
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Here's my noobish attempt at answering some of these:
Doubt there's an anti-mashing mechanism in the game, I would just try to know my character well enough to see what combos the best. Not every light normal will combo, or even combo the same way. Something I learned the hard way when I had random select.
Wake-up inputs, I'm still learning that myself. With obserivng King the only input I've seen very successful with wake-up is EX Trap Shot; anything else doesn't seem reliable.
Jump-in's, I'd say aim for your opponents waist or lower. The arcade version use to be hitting upper body was ok and hitstun would let you continue. You have to adjust this and aim a little lower, almost right before you hit the ground. Took a lot more practice with me, but hopefully a lot less with you.
Alright that helps. I suppose that it's just a matter of putting in a bit more effort. That's the first thing I've noticed about KOF, it's way more mechanically strict then the other fighting games I've tried; BB, Smash, MVC3, etc
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tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?
I totally understand where you're at right now. Let me start by saying that I'm an 09'er (Vanilla SF4 was my first competitive fighter). When I first picked up KoF13, I couldn't do the simplest combos. It took me months (literally dozens of hours in practice mode in the arcade) before I could land anything consistently. I'm not even talking about landing it in a real match. I couldn't even do simple combos in practice mode. Even the IDEA of activating HD scared me.
There is no easy answer to this problem. Hard work and dedication are the only solutions to becoming good at this game. After reading your post, I want to take this opportunity to scream over the internet: DON'T GIVE UP! DON'T GET DISCOURAGED!! If I can do it, then anyone can do it. I was that guy that lost to everyone at the arcade. Literally, every person. But I stuck to it. I'll never forget the first time I actually landed an HD combo in a real match. It felt like Christmas. It was a magical moment haha, I'm not even exaggerating. Just knowing that all those hours had finally paid off, and that I was actually getting better, was soo worth it. It's that feeling that keeps me coming back.
The moral of my rant it, this game WILL reward the effort that you put into it, guaranteed. Keep your head up high and keep working hard, knowing that everyone who is any good at this game has done the same. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!
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ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?
Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.
And one more likely silly input question, I can't seem to get the jump-ins for combos right... is there any secret trick that helps with that beyond perfect timing?
The game does not have any kind of mechanic which prevents mashing. Lets go over the two types of combos you can do with normals:
1. Links: When combo-ing light normals, such as cr. B x2 or cr. B cr. A, you are doing a link. This means that you have to wait until the recovery frames for your first normal to end before your second input will register. This means that links require specific timing. Mashing the B button still gives you many inputs, but if those inputs don't fall into the right time frame, your attacks will not combo. Combo-ing light normals is easier for some characters than others, depending on how much hitstun the normal gives you. For example, combo-ing cr. B for Leona is much easier than doing the same for Raiden. The more hitstun the normal gives you, the wider the window is for a link.
2. Cancels: When combo-ing any regular normal into a command normal (direction + attack), you are doing a cancel. A cancel is different from a link because you are actually skipping (or canceling) the recovery frames of your first attack into the command normal. This means that you have a very wide window to cancel, compared to linking. If you land the first normal attack and then just mash the command normal, most likely it will always combo. Keep in mind that this is still not a good idea for high level play.
On wakeup, inputs work the same way as in any other situation. However, the window of time to do a "reversal" or wakeup move is much smaller than it is in most other fighting games out right now (SF4, SFxT, etc). If you do the inputs too early, you'll stand up and do nothing. If this is happening, practice doing the wakeup move a little later. If you do it too late, however, you are leaving a gap of time on your wakeup when your opponent can hit you. Timing wakeup moves is simply a matter of practice, and is extremely useful. Wakeup uppercuts are great in this game for some characters!
One of the biggest changes to the console version of KoFXIII is that hitstun on jump ins have been decreased significantly. This means that combo-ing off of a jump in has become harder. To combo successfully, your hit has to land fairly low. This again is simply a matter of practicing your timing and spacing. However, some characters can combo off of high jump ins. To do this, you need a very fast stand or crouch B. For instance, King can combo off of a jump-in into st. B in some situations where she could not combo into st. C or D. Kula also comes to mind as a character that can combo into cr. B off of relatively higher jumps.
Overall, the issues you are having can all be solved with time, patience, and lots of training mode. Remember that mashing in this game is NEVER a good idea. One piece of advice I have for execution in general is to start by learning your character's full HD combo using 2 meters, starting with a hop-in. This might seem unintuitive, but learning the HD combo starting with a hop-in will teach you every aspect of execution with your character at once, and will be extremely useful once you start playing real matches. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any other questions!
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Is there any shortcuts for doing HCB x2? I know that there is a Shortcut page and that has helped me in practice but I have problems doing the HCB x2 motion on a fightstick. If there isn't one time to grind me some motions
I do not believe there is any shortcut for this that would realistically make it easier. When doing a half circle back, be sure to be hitting both diagonal directions. This input will become easier with KoFXIII: Climax. (I'm not a fan of this change, since I've put in tons of work to learn how to do it properly lol but oh well).
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Earlier you mentioned that Shen is good at point as well, could you expand on that some?
Along those lines. Since Shen is used at anchor because of what he can do with meter. Players are looking for specific moves and try to guard against them. With him playing as anchor do you think when someone plays him at point that it can throw off players? Do you think playing characters at points on a team where they might not be commonly used work in mixing up the game to gain some advantage?
Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen. With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K. I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.
Thanks.
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ok this is probably borderline super noob, but I've still been learning inputs and I keep running into hitches in real matches. I just recently noticed that I can't button mash the light normals and expect them to combo. Does this mean the game has some built in anti-mashing mechanism that i should break free from when trying to combo?
Also, how do inputs work on wakeup? I've tried to do things like wakeup reversals with king but i end up getting up and just standing there without doing anything.
1. Links
2. Cancels
3. Chains : Some characters can chain cancel their lights, like Kim, Yuri, Kyo, etc. Thus they gain an easy confirm since you can mash d.B,d.B,s.B and confirm whether it's in guard or not.
I think the reversal window is pretty loose in this game, you must get the timing to do it but it comes quite fast. However king has only two invincible wakeups options : dp.BD, qcf qcf.AC, but be careful her dp move is easily safe jumpable, for the other one though it's really hard.
tl;dr version: Game is hard! Fighting Spirit is extinguished. How do specials and cancels?
The moral of my rant it, this game WILL reward the effort that you put into it, guaranteed. Keep your head up high and keep working hard, knowing that everyone who is any good at this game has done the same. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!
I'm just completly agreeing to this. Seriously, if you play this game hard you will become better. And it won't be in 10 years, in this game you can progress really fast to a point where you can play against the best players. But don't lose time, it's only true because the game is still new.
Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen. With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K. I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.
Thanks.
You're trying to do the dp.C rbp.B hd loop? Well can't really help since the last month it was totally impossible to do it for me. The last week I tried to do it again sucessfuly and now I can do it at 100% in training. I think it's just a matter of time to learn to do clean inputs. Keep in mind the buffer is loose, you must do the rdp.B just after the dp.C move and start to buff the dp.C at the end of the animation of the previous rdp.B.
To cancel the hcb.K you must do it really early, while kyo is still running you must input the move and press the buttons just before he lands in your opponent. Hopefully you can do the hcb.K while the qcf.D animation in the hd combo and thus have a really cool timing.
If you want I might be able to do a video next week once I'm able to lay a hand on the game.
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Earlier you mentioned that Shen is good at point as well, could you expand on that some?
Along those lines. Since Shen is used at anchor because of what he can do with meter. Players are looking for specific moves and try to guard against them. With him playing as anchor do you think when someone plays him at point that it can throw off players? Do you think playing characters at points on a team where they might not be commonly used work in mixing up the game to gain some advantage?
Currently I'm putting a lot of time into Kyo Yuri and Shen. With Kyo I'm having problems with dp+P to rdp+K drive cancel and canceling from hcb+K. I'm sure the first is just a matter of timing, but the hcb+K I don't know what's going on there.
Thanks.
Great question. First off, I just wanna say that your whole team is really awesomely top tier. Kyo, Yuri, and Shen is also the best order to play them in, IMO. So, good job! That's great that you enjoy those characters. They will bring you much success in the future.
So yeah, let's talk about Shen Woo. Hahaha where do I begin? Shen Woo is the ultimate badass. This is a list of his cheapest stuff:
1.) Jump CD. Shen's jump CD is probably the best jump CD in the game. As soon as it's active, it doesn't lose to any normal. This means that if jump CD is timed properly, you cannot anti air this move with ANY normal at all. You have to block. Also, you cannot win in any air-to-air situation unless you use an air super. If you can land a counter hit jump CD, you can follow up with very easy and damaging follow ups (like EX super).
2.) EX Explosion Super. This super is an instant start up super that does 312 damage regularly, and 390 damage on counter hit. It also grants around a 20% damage boost to all of your moves for 13 game clock seconds. This super is extremely effective in wakeup sitiations, as it will catch ANY jump/hop-in.
3.) Stand C. Stand C has guard point, and it's extremely fast compared to any other guard point move in the game. Abuse stand C in footsie range, since it cannot be beat by any mid/high hitting attack. However, it can be beat by lows. Watch out for lows with good range.
Besides that, Shen's Woo's damage output is simply among the best in the game, in any situation. Great point characters are defined by either the ability to build meter or great '1-meter 1-drive' combos. Great anchors are defined by the ability to make huge comebacks and have great midscreen HD combos. Shen Woo has all of the above. He is probably the best anchor in the game, as well as a great point character. People who play him on point don't do it to throw people off. They do it just because Shen is THAT solid.
Unfortunately, I don't know Kyo's combos. Hopefully someone else here can answer that Kyo execution question for you. I hope this was helpful, let me know if you have any other questions!
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Hi
I would like to include HD combos in my game but i dont know exactly how to do it...
I have a terrible execution and i often think that i m wasting my time in training mode..
My main team is Ash, Clark and Benimaru is this order most of the time.
My first problem is that i don t know exactly which HD combo to learn and for which character... Clark dont have effective HD combos , Ash is played first and I did not see easy midscreen HD combos for Benimaru...
I m training a Iori (and Kyo before) but i don t feel confortable with rushers... I play sometimes Ryo mr karate and Saiki...
I thought that my team can be played effectively without HD combos but that is so important in this game and so flashy ^^... I need advices to define reasonable training goals and methods for training maybe... Thanks for helping me
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for Shen jumping CD you can beat it air to air, you just have to beat it early before it comes out. It'll beat/trade with certain characters DPs but I can down C with my team just fine because I just hit him before his arc of his jump. With Kyo/EX Kyo you can just run up to him as he's starting to jump and press C as I'm doing Standing Close C. His Jumping CD is the one of the best but it not stupid that randomly crossup like EX Kyo/Kyo jumping CD.
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Hi
I would like to include HD combos in my game but i dont know exactly how to do it...
I have a terrible execution and i often think that i m wasting my time in training mode..
My main team is Ash, Clark and Benimaru is this order most of the time.
My first problem is that i don t know exactly which HD combo to learn and for which character... Clark dont have effective HD combos , Ash is played first and I did not see easy midscreen HD combos for Benimaru...
I m training a Iori (and Kyo before) but i don t feel confortable with rushers... I play sometimes Ryo mr karate and Saiki...
I thought that my team can be played effectively without HD combos but that is so important in this game and so flashy ^^... I need advices to define reasonable training goals and methods for training maybe... Thanks for helping me
I can't help you with combos for Ash Clark and Beni. However the best way to become better with your execution is simply practicing. When I go to learn a combo what I do is break it down into smaller parts, or just individual moves. Once you feel comfortable with the smaller parts, put them together and work on that bigger part. Eventually you'll have it down, it takes time, and you might go days before you actually land it. Asking questions here on this site is a great thing to do, there are a lot of people with lots of experience willing to help.
Thanks for the answer David Kong. After working on the dp+P (DC) rdp+K with Kyo I'm getting to work more than not. Something that can apply to what I said above, watching some combo videos for Kyo I saw when I need to cancel the hcb+K. I picked this team using what you suggested earlier in the thread. I played with each character over several days (Ended up with about 12 characters I feel confident with) I just feel comfortable with Kyo, Yuri and Shen. That and it's always funny to see Yuri pick up a 300+ pound man with one hand and slap him around.
I see a lot of people panic if they drop their HD combos and look to raw Neo Max. Most times the other person knows this is coming and plays highly defensive until the meter runs down and they get nothing out of that meter. Would it be better to try and open them up and try to get an abbreviated combo out of that meter. Or just sit on it and if you see a opportunity to raw Neo Max, do that?
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Hi
I would like to include HD combos in my game but i dont know exactly how to do it...
I have a terrible execution and i often think that i m wasting my time in training mode..
My main team is Ash, Clark and Benimaru is this order most of the time.
My first problem is that i don t know exactly which HD combo to learn and for which character... Clark dont have effective HD combos , Ash is played first and I did not see easy midscreen HD combos for Benimaru...
I m training a Iori (and Kyo before) but i don t feel confortable with rushers... I play sometimes Ryo mr karate and Saiki...
I thought that my team can be played effectively without HD combos but that is so important in this game and so flashy ^^... I need advices to define reasonable training goals and methods for training maybe... Thanks for helping me
I also think it's mostly going to boil down to practice. HD combos are usually the hardest thing to grasp and do consistently for most players.
Most of what I think Clark might be capable of for HD is like these from his wiki:
-s.D / s.C, [HD] s.C, (Ex) hcb x2+P DM, [MC] Neomax (hcb x2+BD). 745 / 850 damage
-j.D / j.C, s.D / s.C, [HyperDrive], s.D, A Gatling Attack (b~f A), Vulcan Punch (rapid P){3 hits}, [DC] C Gatling x2, Vulcan Punch {1 hit}, [DC] C Gatling, Neomax ~ 750 damage
so either simply cancel from a super into a NM given enough meter, or perfect the timing of drive cancelling Gatling Attack and Vulcan Punch.
You might consider switching up the team order sometimes and putting Clark first; most likely easier to dominate and bait grabs with Clark, leaving Ash to take more HD advantage. And if Ash won't take it, Beni will certainly benefit in the end.
Not sure if this is possible, but possibly look up or try drive cancelling Iaido Kicks (qcf+K) and Raijin Kens (qcf+P) for mid-screen HD comboing. It's probably more difficult to do or master if it's even possible, so don't quote me on its' effectiveness.
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Hey all,
What characters would you say teach the fundamentals of KoF? Also would learning Leona be worth it? I'm just starting out, but I like her (along with many others). The only thing I don't like about her is her charge aspect and I've been told she was a difficult character to learn along with Hwa. Any help with all of this?
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Hey all,
What characters would you say teach the fundamentals of KoF? Also would learning Leona be worth it? I'm just starting out, but I like her (along with many others). The only thing I don't like about her is her charge aspect and I've been told she was a difficult character to learn along with Hwa. Any help with all of this?
I'd think someone like Kyo is the best character to work on fundaments of the game. His movement is as average in the game as you can get.
Leona is worth it. She's considered lower-tier by many, but that's only because you have to put ore work into her. She's a great charge character with lots of speed and aerial options, so best to take advantage of those. She and Hwa are more technical, that's their difficulty. Linking and extended combos are more their positives; you'll see that from any match videos featuring them.
Specifically with Hwa, if you've played Joe, he's basically Joe with no projectile but has ways to extend the same attacks and uses a lot more air properties to his moves. I suggest hitting practice mode and sampling all of Leona and Hwa's specials and supers, regular and EX. Hopefully you'll see what I mean there.
Hope this helps.
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I put some time into the lab with each of them the other night, but I can't pick a solid team. I grew a small like for Kula that night too going through her trials. Out of K', Kula, Mai, Leona, Benimaru, Shen, Hwa, and Elisabeth I can't really decide on my first three that will always be there. I like them all and I know tiers don't really matter in this game which is something else I love which means I don't have to worry about who's the "best."
I like Hwa, but it will take some good practice before I can get his BnB's/extended combos down. The same thing with Leona. Her charge moves back to back are what really grind my gears. K' seems to mainly focus around his Fire ring which is lame, but K' himself is just so cool to me. I can almost consistently do his BnB that ends with a slide into shoryuken. And why aren't these forums more active? They seem like it could be a great help.
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And why aren't these forums more active? They seem like it could be a great help.
Hopefully they will be, newcomers and even KOF vets are still getting into the real meat of this game. There's a lot to it, but hopefully more people will realize there are a lot more questions to ask as of now.
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The moral of my rant it, this game WILL reward the effort that you put into it, guaranteed. Keep your head up high and keep working hard, knowing that everyone who is any good at this game has done the same. I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions!
Update! I hit the labs hard and found some characters that I not only like, but I can do basic combos with! My miracle team of Scrubbiness is K`/Goro/Shen.
K` because even though he's a GODDAMN CLONE, I like his WAY over-the-top bad boy style (who wears a one-piece leather jumpsuit in 2012? What happens when he has to take a dump?) as well as he was the first guy I could do corner and mid-screen combos with.
Goro because... He's just awesome. He's huge, he flings people towards the heavens, he can cause friggin' earthquakes with his Neo Max, and I LOVE in KoF that grapplers can combo into their grabs. And I can do a number of his okizemi setups!
And Shen, because he's that fantastically cocky asshole you just want to punch his face in. But he's so damn good at kicking ass that he's practically a Shanghai Duke Nukem. Just give him some one-liners, some heavy rock accompaniment every time he walks in or out of a room, and there you go. Dead simple combos, no flash, no form. Just damage damage damage. And I can appreciate that.
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Nice choices Tye@l, and I see some were made based on character type too, which is always fun to do.
That's not a one-piece leather jump-suit K's wearing, but I always figured K' to be one of the most heat-tolerant characters ever to sling flames while wearing all leather. He does have the easiet corner comboing in the game, just don't get predictable with the Iron Trigger move.
Goro's '98 Nickname was the wall at one point, so using him can really be an upwards battle for your opponent. Don't forget his Jiraishin (ground shake special) and the strong version being a feint, as well as his j.CD and st.C and st.D are very useful. The standing C and D can come out faster than most grapplers his size.
Shen. I don't have to say much more than that, though I like the nickname you gave him; "Shanghai Duke Nukem" sounds awesome. He's got some form though, with the Furu Tora Geki (overhead) and Takamen Deflect. I like to think of Shen as a forward missile, just goes after his target and doesn't stop until well-past impact. Just don't get too cocky with him as he's not as invincible as he looks on offense.
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I have some theory questions.
1.) what is the best way to learn how to use meter effectively within a team? Is it best to construct a certain formula such as x character uses x meter at x time, y character uses y meter at y time etc. and improvise within constructed limitations according to how the match is going, or is it best to just conserve conserve conserve until you get the gut feeling to use meter or only when you need to, which would also save meter for other characters? If it is the latter, what things should I take into account in constructing guidelines for spending meter within my team?
2.) Why do so many players sit on 100% hd meter for so long with a few orange bars instead of just prematurely knocking out a character with a devastating combo? why save it for the anchor and sit on 100% for so long when you could potentially kill a character and even start building hd meter again for later characters?
3.) I don't quite understand dp's in this game. I've read that dp's aren't meant to be used as anti airs in this game, yet I have no trouble stopping almost all jump in attempts, even the smallest ones by always having my muscle memory preemptively ready to do a dp. I just don't understand.
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I have some theory questions.
To chime in on some of your questions before a pro comes to answer,
1) Per what team you have, generally it's best to know the ins-and-outs of what that character can do, and specificially what you can do with that character. The meter system is flexible enough to me to think that there's no one right way to do anything. Go with your gut (with as high a skill-level as you can get). Personally, I think it's best to use the HD combo when you know for sure you won't drop it, cause you can always build it back.
2) Conserving the HD could be based on several things - saving for the anchor to use, rather not use it based on the match-up, character, etc, or just forgot about it. I think most times, people are waiting to confidently use that HD combo. I've seen several characters like Andy, Beni, and a few others wait till they've got you in a corner to even start HD activation.
3) You have no trouble stopping jump-in attempts because the principle of dp's and anti-airs still applies to this game. The biggest difference is having the different jump varieties, which can make jumping even less predictable compared to other fighting games. I think those who say "dp's aren't meant to be used as anti-airs" means that people shouldn't rely on dp's for anti-airs, not a lot anyway, which I agree with. If you're good at reading when a dp can anti-air, great, but don't forget about any usualy st.A or cr.C (if apt) too.
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Thanks for the great and thorough advice solidshark. Your tips make perfect sense.
2 more noob questions though.
1.) why do players sometimes continue to run towards a completely cornered opponent on wakeup recovery?
2.) is there a way to do practice mode where you fight the CPU and the health doesn't recharge?
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Thanks for the great and thorough advice solidshark. Your tips make perfect sense.
2 more noob questions though.
1.) why do players sometimes continue to run towards a completely cornered opponent on wakeup recovery?
2.) is there a way to do practice mode where you fight the CPU and the health doesn't recharge?
1) Many times a player will think they can beat out the cornered opponent in the next attack, or so I guess. A smart player would probably run to them but stop short to see if they can bait an attack out.
2) Just checked recently, I don't think there is an option for that unfortunately.
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Adding onto what solid's saying, peeps want to set themselves up for oki pressure with low starts or jump ins. Some will continue running (when already touching the opponent) and jump at the moment of wakeup to bait a throw attempt and the fail on that will lead into a successful jump (at times this even leads to evading a normal via the jump if not a cmd throw).
Putting on the breaks when approaching the opponent is one technique, but there is a brief opening before you can go to guard when you are dashing. Another approach along the same vein is to run fwd and roll backwards where there is no opening in btw actions - of course you are still open at the end of your roll and can be punished if this is expected. Good not to do the same thing every time.
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wow, thanks solidshark and biobooster. Never would've understood without the help
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One last thing about using HD on the last round: Meter transference. If you do a bunch of HD combos on the 2nd-4th round you're basically begging to get HD'd back, quite early on. Unless you're Clark who doesn't give much/any meter for combos, some people like to HD on the 5th round to seal the deal without having to worry about retaliation.
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So in a way, the 5th round is like a battle to the first one to hit confirm into an HD combo? If this is the case, wouldn't it make sense just to kill their second character quick with an HD combo, or even the first character? You'd probably already get full HD by the 5th round anyway?
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Also, sometimes it's a good idea to run forward on a soft knockdown so you can throw a tech roll. Tech rolls have no grab invincibility, so they can be grabbed on the first frame. Running forward allows you to throw them as soon as possible if they tech roll.
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Also, sometimes it's a good idea to run forward on a soft knockdown so you can throw a tech roll. Tech rolls have no grab invincibility, so they can be grabbed on the first frame. Running forward allows you to throw them as soon as possible if they tech roll.
oooh, I get it, so no tech rolling in the corner?
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So in a way, the 5th round is like a battle to the first one to hit confirm into an HD combo? If this is the case, wouldn't it make sense just to kill their second character quick with an HD combo, or even the first character? You'd probably already get full HD by the 5th round anyway?
Well that's when the strategy falls in. If you kill their second character with HD and let's say he kills your second character effortlessly without using much meter...then he's going to be entering the 5th round with a pretty significant lead.
Of course, if he kills your second character with and HD combo then he's kinda back at where he started so most experienced players don't do that unless they're super confident with their third.
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Also, sometimes it's a good idea to run forward on a soft knockdown so you can throw a tech roll. Tech rolls have no grab invincibility, so they can be grabbed on the first frame. Running forward allows you to throw them as soon as possible if they tech roll.
oooh, I get it, so no tech rolling in the corner?
Well, tech rolling is always safe, because you can still tech the grab. You can tech roll whenever you want as long as you're aware of what your opponent is trying to do. However, sometimes it's better to not tech roll if you know your opponent has a very strong mixup in that situation (such as an invincible command grab).
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My problem is this:
So, I fiiinally got a friend to try this game with me. I really like KOF and would want to start a scene here, but I'm still a beginner myself so it was hard for me to defend it when my friend complained that "this game is horrible and all you can do is reversals". He feels that there was nothing he could do when on defense except DP'ing everything.
I did try to explain that if I was a better player he shouldn't even get those DPs on me and that heavy attacks generally push him out of close pressure. I don't know what else to say because I don't feel qualified enough to say anything else. I'm sure he was salty for losing so many in a row (we usually play even in SF/Marvel), but yeahh...
I wanna get people to play this game and if I can't counter their arguments.. It's like doing a disservice :D
PS. Dunno if it matters but I was mostly using Andy/Mai/EX Kyo. Dabbled with Iori (claw), Yuri, Shen, Terry and Clark.
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Where to begin.... sure other peeps will have a lot to say about this, but KOF offers far more in terms of defense than most fighters.
Guard Cancell roll/blowback: always good for recovering momentum
Wakeup backdash: avoid throws or minimize damage from ground combo mixups
Ashi-taiku: crouch B taking advantage of some chr's lower stature during the move making jump ins miss, if you hit you get a combo
Air to air: Hugely important, attack early on a jump pre-empting an opponent's jump attempt. Can also use jumping blowbacks to get the advantage or more dmg on counter hits with a follow up. Using weak attacks in the air is good with chrs who have attacks with range as weak attacks mostly startup faster and stay active for longer.
Rolling.
Guard points.
Running under jump-ins.
Ground to air normals, etc.
There's certainly plenty here, but that's different from the game lending itself to turtling if that's what he means.
Hope this helps!
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My problem is this:
So, I fiiinally got a friend to try this game with me. I really like KOF and would want to start a scene here, but I'm still a beginner myself so it was hard for me to defend it when my friend complained that "this game is horrible and all you can do is reversals". He feels that there was nothing he could do when on defense except DP'ing everything.
I did try to explain that if I was a better player he shouldn't even get those DPs on me and that heavy attacks generally push him out of close pressure. I don't know what else to say because I don't feel qualified enough to say anything else. I'm sure he was salty for losing so many in a row (we usually play even in SF/Marvel), but yeahh...
I wanna get people to play this game and if I can't counter their arguments.. It's like doing a disservice :D
PS. Dunno if it matters but I was mostly using Andy/Mai/EX Kyo. Dabbled with Iori (claw), Yuri, Shen, Terry and Clark.
Seth Killian once said something like "You can lead a scrub to the arcade, but you can't make him THINK." If your friend has this attitude, that is unfortunate. I would recommend showing him some footage of high level play. Obviously, he is very wrong about defensive options in KoF. All the things biobooster listed are good. It sounds like your friend doesn't know how to anti air. In the long run, just keep playing the game, and get good at it yourself. Like you said, it'll be easier for you to explain to others when you have achieved more game knowledge on your own part.
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Yeah, I wouldn't say he's a scrub but when it comes to new games he is definitely very judgemental. He's made so many sweeping statements about Tekken too. It's like he becomes a total scrub everytime he's learning a new game.
It's hard to get good at a game by myself, but I guess it's the only way to go. Thanks for the answer!
Another noob question! Are there any known (or less known) safe jump setups for EX Kyo? He gets a hard knockdown from a couple of things.
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Considering your friend is brand-new to things Kurdijef, and has a SF background, has he or you check this vid out: The Beginner's Incomplete Guide to KOF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU#ws)
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Look there, a french top player demonstrate the basics of the char, it's mostly in french though, but the stream speaks by itself.
http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/319959726 (http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/319959726)
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Yeah, I've seen that a couple of years ago and it was actually the original spark for me to get into KOF. I've rewatched this video a lot of times. It's just so good. And this friend of mine has seen it too, but I don't think it left as big of an impression on him. I already liked Garou alot and seeing that video opened my eyes in a totally new way.
However, XII just received so much hate along "not being true KOF" I decided to leave it be altogether. My internet has also been too unstable for me to play GGPO or I would've gotten into 98 that way. Then came the console release for KOFXIII finally, but pretty much none of my friends bought it with me. UMvC3/Tekken rules our local weekly and beyond that, Tekken, is by far the most popular game in Finland. The only likeminded person lives too far away from me and on a different console... :D
I've kept the flame alive but kinda low. Thanks for all the tips you guys.
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Yo David I have a quick question for you
How come you don't use Robert HD Bypass with EX Dive Kick into Neo Max? It does about 550 dmg and if they block the EX Dive Kick you're safe (I believe) and you can go for EX command grab into HD combo? I
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Yo David I have a quick question for you
How come you don't use Robert HD Bypass with EX Dive Kick into Neo Max? It does about 550 dmg and if they block the EX Dive Kick you're safe (I believe) and you can go for EX command grab into HD combo? I
Its a huge risk when it comes to meter.
The neomax by itself is much faster (one of the fastest moves in the game) and has complete invincibility so if they are in the midst of anything you have a much higher chance of punishing them than with an EX Dive Kick.
Also, you can activate his neomax via an air HD bypass so his air neomax is essentially 2 power bars+HD (instead of 3+HD).
His ex command grab isn't instant and has no invincibility so banking on it isn't really a good idea, they can easily hit you before it comes out.
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ok here we go, i have two question:
1) the double tap tech... or spam tech on the button, I see the Mago vs Bala FT5 in hotel david post while ago and impressive me the amount of click heard o.O,
2) ok the game is full of shortcut and that's is well stated, from the snkp japan blog vid too... but, i'm missing something, i'm more confortable on link and on shortcut connection too with the button pressed down sometimes, it's just a coincidence or there is a buffered buttons input too other than motion input buffer?
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ok here we go, i have two question:
1) the double tap tech... or spam tech on the button, I see the Mago vs Bala FT5 in hotel david post while ago and impressive me the amount of click heard o.O,
2) ok the game is full of shortcut and that's is well stated, from the snkp japan blog vid too... but, i'm missing something, i'm more confortable on link and on shortcut connection too with the button pressed down sometimes, it's just a coincidence or there is a buffered buttons input too other than motion input buffer?
1. Could just be pressing a lot of buttons, you'd often hear a lot of buttons being pressed when the round hadn't even started yet. Some players also like to multi tap buttons instead of pushing them once, while others like to tap empty buttons to try to fool their opponent into thinking they will do something. I remember watching PoongKo play on a stream and the guy is so loud, presses like a billion buttons for what seems like no good reason (before a match or round starts etc).
2. You're right, when you do a move and hold the button down at the end the game repeats the input for about 5 frames. This way you can do the move in advance and have it come out as soon as your character recovers from his or her previous move.
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Yeah, all that stuff. And also, Robert is low tier. ;)
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And to add on Re: 2)
Works for all bufferable moves. Does not work for links which by design don't have a buffer.
ie- ryo cr.b, mature qcb+D have no buffer
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Rookie KoF player here who just really got into the series. Played a lot of other fighters in the past. SF, GG, CVS2, etc. Anyway. My questions are basically team construction based. I currently seem to do okay with Duo Lon 1st, Kula 2nd, Terry anchor. Im not good with anyone yet but this teams suits me so far.
First question: as a competetive guy (even if im not intending on it it happens) this obvoously isnt cvs2 so i feel like im lost with my basic team construction and placement therein. Is there any standard besides point > battery > anchor that i just missed somehow?
Second: Ive played around with all of the cast trying to find ones who really appeal. So far duo lon and terry are all thet really mesh well. Is there another in that archetype that perhaps im missing or just dont have the kof background to see theit similarities in the mechanics?
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First question: as a competetive guy (even if im not intending on it it happens) this obvoously isnt cvs2 so i feel like im lost with my basic team construction and placement therein. Is there any standard besides point > battery > anchor that i just missed somehow?
Second: Ive played around with all of the cast trying to find ones who really appeal. So far duo lon and terry are all thet really mesh well. Is there another in that archetype that perhaps im missing or just dont have the kof background to see theit similarities in the mechanics?
1) Nop, you can compose a team like that. And it may be better to do so, but you aren't forced to do so.
Anyway if you take care of that you should switch your team order since Duo Lon is more metervore than Kula you should put him 2nd. Terry is good as an anchor in this team I guess.
2) I don't understand your question, Terry and Duo Lon playstyles are very different.
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Thanks.
As for the comparison. I duno what i was thinking. To me they seem to "feel" similar in use not application. I dont know why maybe just new guy stuff. At any rate i appreciate the response.
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Feel free to pick any of your favorite characters and just go wild! You'll only discover what you REALLY like about how a character plays after trying out all of his/her moves in real matches.
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I have a question ^^
Is my team of Athena, Kula, and Yuri/Kyo (in that order) ok?
Also, I'm trying to get the trophy for Survival, and the farthest I can get is 25-30 wins. Any tips you can give to help me survive a bit longer?
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I'd say Kula, Athena, Kyo is a stronger order. I don't have any tips for getting through survival.
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Oh, I see. Thank you. ^^
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Also, I'm trying to get the trophy for Survival, and the farthest I can get is 25-30 wins. Any tips you can give to help me survive a bit longer?
Welcome to the site Negimafan.
I go through survival every-so-often. It's always pretty easy to start; once you get into the 20's for victories, they will use their meter for NeoMaxes so, don't assume you can rush them down like usual. Just play smarter/more defensively to save health, because Boss Saiki and Dark Ash are probably at the end of it. If possible, by the time you get to maybe 33, make sure you have full HD and lots of stock for the bosses.
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OK this is going to sound stupid, but I feel like I'm a strong player in multiple 2D games (mostly SF ones though) and I'm slowly trying to get into KoFXIII (my first KOF). I haven't put much time into it at all, but I have a big tournament this weekend that I want to somehow do well in. Out of almost all of the players in KoF, I can comfortably beat them at SF4 with most of the cast, but with KOF I still don't have a whole grasp of the game.
The one character that I have to play is Athena (don't ask lol). And initially I was trying a team of Kula/Yuri/Athena but I just don't think it's working out for me. So I'm trying to learn Billy/Athena/Mr. Karate right now but I still don't know if these are the right characters for me. I picked Billy because he looks like he has a good poking game and Mr. Karate cause he's well... Mr. Karate. I think I'd feel more comfortable with a more shoto-type character but I just don't know the characters well enough. I was thinking Saiki looked pretty cool before, but then I found out he only has a 1 speed fireball (though is that really a problem in this game)?
Usually when I try to pick up a newer game I try and start with a more zoning and poking style until I'm more familiar with the rushdown.
Would anyone have any advice for me on possible changes to my team and a basic game plan or something.
Thanks alot :)
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If you are looking for characters that can be played like shotos then check out Kensou, Andy and Robert.
In terms of strong fireball games its Kensou (his is excellent, his A fireball is very slow and you can run after it, he also has one of the best anti-airs in the game), King (its all about fireballs with her) and Ash (very zoning heavy, lots of fireball types and in general can be very annoying with his style, especially if you use the flame kisses properly).
For poking try Mai (also has a good fireball game), Ryo and Ralf.
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Would anyone have any advice for me on possible changes to my team and a basic game plan or something.
Thanks alot :)
Welcome to the site massi4h.
Wouldn't worry about wanting Athena on your team all the time; she fits your style, and that's important.
I'd honest say no matter what character you pick, if you're still working on all the peculiar parts of KOF like guard cancel rolls/back attack, CD attacks, (hyper)hops, etc, that should be your focus. Make sure in planning for your tournament (EVO?) you practice that everytime.
Honestly though everyone picks him, for zoning and poking, EX (Flame) Iori is a great character (basically the Ken of KOF with his shoto-esque style). Billy is a decent zoner/poker with a lot of hopping with C or forward A. He still rushes down a lot, usually with cr.B(x2), dp.B, qcb.A or hcf. C. You might try out Takuma too; he lacks the dp that Karate has, but better fireball throwing options to me, and can still intimidate almost as well as Karate with his kicks.
Kula and Yuri are still very good zoners to me, but they require even more rushdown to be really effective.
Best game plan I can give you is while you have shotos, don't always play shoto style. With every character you've got, pick up at least some basic combos like the easier ones from their trials (usually 1 and 2) or at their character wiki's
KOF XIII general wiki - http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_King_of_Fighters_XIII (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_King_of_Fighters_XIII)
For Athena - http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Athena_Asamiya_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Athena_Asamiya_(XIII))
Billy - http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Billy_Kane_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Billy_Kane_(XIII))
Mr. Karate - http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mr._Karate_(XIII) (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mr._Karate_(XIII))
And DO NOT be afraid to be agressive. It's the nature of the game. Apply pressure where you can, preferably with weak attacks to lead into combos.
I know someone will offer better specific advice than this, but hope some of this will help you.
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Thanks alot both of you for the advice and so fast as well. I really respect this game and in the future I plan to take it as serious as I take marvel (my main game atm).
I tried out EX Iori and definitely this is a character for me. Even has a rekka (though the frames say that it's pretty unsafe, can I not poke with it like I would do with Fei Long?)
And I tried a bit of Kensou and I like his fireball, dp and he has combos that look pretty simple. A low standing B sounds like a great option, but his floaty jump makes it look like it will be hard to open people up. But I'll give him more of a go I guess.
Right now it's looking like either Kensou/Athena/EX Iori or Athena/EX Iori/Mr Karate but I'm unsure about the order I should put the characters in.
Also would you guys have any top players that you could recommend me to watch and see how they play these characters?
Once again thanks for the help
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I'm having trouble practicing hit-confirms. In other fighting games I would go to training mode and set the dummy to Random Guard, and practice hit-confirms that way. But in this game it seems the dummy won't block high unless they're standing, and won't block low unless they're crouching (when set to Random Guard anyway). So this means I can't practice doing high-low mix-up strings with short hops and jumps and stuff like that (at least in Training Mode). How do other people practice this?
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Honestly, I believe that simply practicing your combo starting from multiple variations will help you hit confirm. For example, with King I practice cr. B x2, st. B, slide, tornado kick as well as the same combo, but only starting with cr. B x1 or just starting with st. B.
In all honesty, the absolute best way to practice hit confirms is playing against other players. But, if you lack a local scene, being a training mode monster will also help you improve your confirms eventually.
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@9inch: I know what you mean, for that particular kind of practice after you know your combos and want to practice high low confirm stuff, i just use the computer. playing vs the computer to train specific things like that is probably the only use out of any fighting game cpu so far heh.
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Hey David (and other thread responders) I've been grinding the game out for the past month and have definitely improved, however, all grapplers seem to have my number...hard (especially Raiden). The main grapplers have really good air normals, such as Clark's/Raiden's/Maxima's/Daimon's j.CD, and they also have pretty good ground normals, and as grapplers, are scary as fuck on the ground.
My team is usually composed from some of the following: K', Kyo, Shen, Maxima, or Billy. As such the only one's I can kinda zone with are K', Kyo, and billy to an extent, but most of my team is rushdown focused. To me it seems that in the close range, I can easily get command grabbed (on the ground or air). In the mid range, their hop CD is a big threat, which I usually try to beat with pre-emptive neutral hops/jumps, and my team does not excel at long ranges.
Thus, my question is, are they really that intimidating to fight and what are some tactics I can employ to stand a chance? Thanks guys
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First off, analyze why you are losing life to grapplers. Are you actually getting command grabbed? Or are you being hit by normals because you're trying to avoid command grabs?
Remember that command grabs, in theory, are not any different than any other option in the game, such as an uppercut or a low. You can punish a grab every single time, so realistically, your opponent should be just as afraid of grabbing as you are of getting grabbed.
With that said, some people get hit by tons of uppercuts because they get punished for not blocking. A command grab will PUNISH YOU FOR BLOCKING TOO MUCH. Practice alternate guarding and neutral hopping to counter command grabs. And as for any matchup, the key rule is to stay patient and do not be afraid. Even if a grappler is up close, this does not mean you're necessarily at a disadvantage. Never get afraid, and look for your key opportunity to blow up whatever option they are going for.
Also, block clark's jump CD, because that move is really really good.
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First off, analyze why you are losing life to grapplers. Are you actually getting command grabbed? Or are you being hit by normals because you're trying to avoid command grabs?
I watched a couple of my replays and it really is a combination of both. Once I got command grabbed a couple of times I would try to keep my distance or backdash on my wake up--this is when they would normally start to pressure with jumping CD or other really good normals
Remember that command grabs, in theory, are not any different than any other option in the game, such as an uppercut or a low. You can punish a grab every single time, so realistically, your opponent should be just as afraid of grabbing as you are of getting grabbed.
Never really thought about it like that. I'll try to keep that in mind!
A command grab will PUNISH YOU FOR BLOCKING TOO MUCH.
I also noticed that I do tend to block too much. As a result, I noticed in my replays that I often get tick thrown, even by non-grapplers. I think if I can keep in mind the situations where I get thrown, I'll be able to neutral hop preemptively.
Also, I respect their command grabs too much, even on their wake up. Even if I do get a knockdown, I tend to back off and not push my advantage due to the fear of a reversal, but this is something that I need to work on in general (really safe-jumping in this game is something I don't have a good grasp on but I'm getting there).
Also, block clark's jump CD, because that move is really really good.
Would this be the case with Raiden's and Maxima's as well? Their CDs seem just as dominating and using meter as a punish doesn't seem very cost-effective in most cases haha.
Overall,when up against grapplers, I play too conservatively and don't push my advantage. And once I start getting hit, I turtle up which leads to me being command grabbed haha. As you said, I should start neutral hopping more since I would sometimes backdash but I would be unable to punish their command grab attempt.
Hopefully next time I come up against a grappler I'll be able to implement some of this things and fair a little better. Thanks for the reply David!
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Yes, Raiden and Maxima's Jump CD's are also really good. These jump CD attacks hit crouchers and grant them lots of block stun. This allows them to get in and continue pressure after you have blocked them. Realizing this, many players attempt to hop out/away, but in these cases you eat the damage and they still get to get in. Don't lose patience, be willing to block the jump in and defend against the mixup, or uppercut it if you have the right move.
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I think grapplers tend to be predictable with their grabs. It's the unpredictable grapplers that I would be scared of. I don't know about XIII but in 98 most grapplers have certain situations which are ideal for grabbing. Just try to assess the situation and act accordingly. You can beat any standing command grab with a hop. Use this to your advantage.
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I'd say Kula, Athena, Kyo is a stronger order. I don't have any tips for getting through survival.
Sorry David but I think Athena, Kula, Kyo is a stronger order imo because Athena does better than Kula without meters
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I'm not really new to fighting games, but I am new to getting a competitive edge in one. Recently picked up Kof XIII after Evo, and I really do love the game. I am just getting so stuck on practicing: I feel like after practicing for only a short session, I start losing focus, and get extremely frustrated. I know the inputs are a lot stricter in this game compared to SFIVAE for instance, but I feel as if I have beat myself over the head with the same basic combos, and I cannot get them down, nor can I sit down to practice for more than like 30 minutes at a time. Any advice on staying focused, or to make practicing more bearable and less like I'm just smashing my head into a wall?
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I'm not really new to fighting games, but I am new to getting a competitive edge in one. Recently picked up Kof XIII after Evo, and I really do love the game. I am just getting so stuck on practicing: I feel like after practicing for only a short session, I start losing focus, and get extremely frustrated. I know the inputs are a lot stricter in this game compared to SFIVAE for instance, but I feel as if I have beat myself over the head with the same basic combos, and I cannot get them down, nor can I sit down to practice for more than like 30 minutes at a time. Any advice on staying focused, or to make practicing more bearable and less like I'm just smashing my head into a wall?
First off, don't get discouraged! I can tell you from first hand experience that I know exactly what you are talking about. Everyone has trouble with combos when first starting out. My advice is to break down your combos to the smallest pieces possible. For example, the combo might be, jump C, close C, fwd A, special move. If you're having trouble with it, practice each piece of it separately. Start off with just jump C into close C over and over again. Then close C into fwd A, etc etc.
If this is too boring for you to do in training mode, then try practicing this in arcade mode. This way, at least you can unlock some colors as you practice lol. Also, I have to say that in this game, training mode is essential. You will NEED to spend lots of hours in training mode to be able to land the harder combos in the game. If practicing the same combo over and over starts to bore you, then stop for a few minutes and just go crazy! Set your meter to infinite and see what kind of wacky setups you can find. Don't hesitate to experiment.
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If practicing the same combo over and over starts to bore you, then stop for a few minutes and just go crazy! Set your meter to infinite and see what kind of wacky setups you can find. Don't hesitate to experiment.
I agree with this. Sometimes some of the things you do while trying to do crazy/wacky stuff can be carried over to your proper/practical combos or setups. It can also allow you to understand your character more, just through trial and error discovery.
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Thanks! I will try this out next time I sit down to play.
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Hi David and every body,
I finally decided to start learning HD combos... I thought they were only for elite players but i am motivated now...
I don t really understand how it works:I train cr lk cr lk HD on training mode with Benimaru, sometimes It begins HD only with moving forward , sometimes with lk sometimes with a hp ^^... I tried with having B and C on one button, it is the same thing...
Can we activate the mode after a special move in a combo or is it only with normals and command moves?
I m actually playing ash mr karate and benimaru in this order... What would be the first (understand the easiest) HD mode I could learn?
Thanks for your answers guys!!
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If you cancel into HD from a normal early, you get the auto dash. If you cancel into HD from a normal late you get a cl.C. So just try to do it faster and you should be fine :).
The absolute easiest HD combo would be something like (karate): cl.C, f.B HD, cl.C, f.B, super-> cancel to neomax.
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If you cancel into HD from a normal early, you get the auto dash. If you cancel into HD from a normal late you get a cl.C. So just try to do it faster and you should be fine :).
The absolute easiest HD combo would be something like (karate): cl.C, f.B HD, cl.C, f.B, super-> cancel to neomax.
Thanks for your answer buddy, for the HD cancel i ll try this on training...
For the HD combo I was hoping a totally unskilled flashy loop, if someone got that pliz share !!!!
One more noob question with mr karate : French mr karate players most use Forward B , unstead of asiatic players like Yang "Whaaat!!!" Yao Ren or japanese players which most use forward A. I suspect forward A to be more complicated to use for blockstrings or combos because it push away more the oponent , but if there is different cases i need explanations..
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Well karates HD is pretty simple, i just figured you wanted some super easy stuff :).
C, f.B HD C, [qcf.A DC dp.C~AB, qcf.A] repeat until meter runs out, super.
Midscreen you do dp.C~AB, hcf~uf.B, qcf.A DC dp.C~AB etc. (also works in the corner, same damage).
f.A is better to end your hitconfirm with if you start with a cr.B, since you get this combo:
cr.B, st.B, f.A, dp.C~AB, hcf~uf.B, dp.A or super.
if you start with cl.C the pushback is too much for the hcf~uf.B to hit, so you might as well do f.B for more damage.
EDIT: Found a vid of the midscreen one ( The King Of Fighters 13 Mr Karate (Takuma) EXPERT HD Combo (900 dmg 61 Hits) by xMasterLeex (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06-JhkEAEMM#) ). In the corner just substitute the hcf~uf.B for a qcf.C to make it easier. You can just end it with qcf.C instead of the f,b,f.P if you want to connect a regular super at the end instead IIRC.
As for Ash, i dont know much about him except that his combos are pretty tough. Probably one of the worst chars in the game regarding execution.
Benimarus HD combos are actually pretty lackluster so you probably wont lose much damage from doing something super basic like cl.D HD, cl.D, qcf.D, d,u.D DC qcb.C, super ->neomax hehe. Here is a good 4bar HD with him that you can practice once you are a little more comfortable: Benimaru 4 bar HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-7UWRwaoJo#ws)
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One more noob question with mr karate : French mr karate players most use Forward B , unstead of asiatic players like Yang "Whaaat!!!" Yao Ren or japanese players which most use forward A. I suspect forward A to be more complicated to use for blockstrings or combos because it push away more the oponent , but if there is different cases i need explanations..
It's because most French players don't punish f.B use, by example in corner, if you backdash while karate does s.C,f.B, the s.C will hit, the f.B whiff giving you a free punish, same thing goes for s.C,f.B,qcf.P in some case you can punish the qcf.P by break rolling on the f.B, it's far more difficult on the f.A (you must break roll on the first hit of the f.A to punish, quite hard).
In fact f.A keeps your opponent closer, reducing the chances of the dp.C~AB to whiff if you cancel it on the first hit. If people do f.B it's mainly because it does more damages and let's you confirm a bit more easily on non hd combo (In case of a punish combo, f.B is always better since the damages are higher). There is also possibility they don't know it's punishable ...
If something is still unclear ask for it :D
A perfect example on this stream, skip to 10min http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/329120448 (http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/329120448)
I thought f.A was safe but thanks to this stream I see I was wrong, you can also break roll punish with a full combo.
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Today I learned a third way, s.C,hcf uf.B to hit confirm, since karate can super jump cancel his moves only on hit he does only s.C and is safe in guard (Plus the combo out of it does more damages).
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Today I learned a third way, s.C,hcf uf.B to hit confirm, since karate can super jump cancel his moves only on hit he does only s.C and is safe in guard (Plus the combo out of it does more damages).
merci pour ta réponse Sharnt, les stream à Frio c'est vraiment que du bonheur et plein de matos..
traduction "many technologies in Frionel streams!!"
mais je peux pas vérifier là mais je crois bien que fA fait plus de dégats que fB, ds les petits combos et la mm choses ds les plus longs.. Le souci avec fA c'est que il whiff régulièrement ds mes combos qui commences par JHK et qui sont pas très prés du perso..
excuse my french
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Hey, you answered a question a few months ago, and would just like to say I appreciated the response I got (albiet really late reply). I did get discouraged for awhile, but the game is really starting to feel better for me, and I'm starting to do solid block strings and combos, especially with King. I play (and lose) to my bro alot, and I can feel myself building a mechanical edge on him (he plays shotos and zoners because they just require the basic knowledge, but doesn't practice anything).
But I do have a few new questions. My bro plays a rather solid Andy. Regardless of my choice of characters, I'll burn through his other characters, then come to Andy and he'll just destroy. He plays rather systematically, however I'm having difficulty punishing what he is doing. I can figure out most of it one my own, but specifically two things I'd like advice on: first, when he approaches on the ground, he'll run up and do a few cr.B's, then will pause to try to punish my response with a sweep. I can foresee this is what he's planning, but I've tried jumping, backdashing, sweeping (he always stops when he's pushed me far enough to where he knows the characters I play can't respond with their own sweeps), but they always seem to get hit by the sweep. I feel because of my lack of knowledge, I resort to sitting there blocking, and wait for him to make a move, where he'll either reset to hadoken pressure, or try to elbow/hop which are both partially solid approaches. If I know that this is what he is trying, how would I punish it? The only character I play with a meterless dp is ex iori, so that is not always an option.
Second, also mostly geared towards my experience towards vs Andy (and to a lesser extent, other zoners), How do I go about doing a ground approach? Some of it's just rolling under projectiles, but after I disconnect from my opponents pressure, I'm having a hard time moving in on the ground. mostly with Andy, if i try running towards him, he'll do an EX projectile, or an EX elbow because he knows I can't block it immediately. I initially mostly tried running in and hitting with cr.Bs, but most, if not all of my attempts at this are met with preemptive sweeps or elbows. Other character's he plays have similar goals, with Leona I tend to get caught by her swing... thing, and vs Ash he'll usually set up the fireball. I understand alot of it involves not being predictable in my movements, but oftentimes in a match I'll get frustrated trying to close distance and (I'm aware of this) try to jump over it all, to which he'll always have the dp input with all of his characters on his mind, or seemingly superior air to airs.
note: for a frame of reference, I play King, Kim, Shen mostly, but I've been moving to other characters, because he knows how to punish my mindset with these characters so well... (ex Iori, who has a dp, Raiden, mindgames, used to play Maxima but he seems like a burden against characters with good keepaway, and Terry, who seems to just brute force through the pressure)
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From the way you are describing it, the troubles you are having stem from a lack of footsies. Unfortunately, these issues are not simple problems to fix, because the answer in these scenarios is to develop better understanding of fundamentals.
For example, for the problem of the frame trap sweep with Andy, the most brutal punish for this would be a hop attack that grants you a full combo by counter hitting the sweep. You mentioned that you get hit if you try to jump. This simply means that you are not hopping early enough to truly PREDICT the sweep. In these situations, a difference of a few frames the is the difference between getting hit and landing your punish. The skill to have an instinctual understanding of this kind of timing comes with practice and experience, and in most cases this is what separates great players from average ones.
In regards to closing distance, I would advise you to re-think the context of your goal. It is not always important to close the distance. Remember that patience is a two way road in fighting games. The important thing is to always have more patience than your opponent if he is far away. Simply having patience in this situation will solve the problem of getting in for you. Eventually, your opponent will throw a bad fireball, or give up on zoning and try to attack you. As soon as this happens, the tide has changed directions in your favor. If it's hard to get in, then stay out. Find ways to play your own zoning games in response to those of your opponent. With that said, knowing particular facts about your characters is also useful, so:
With king, ex air fireball is excellent from a distance. The air version has MUCH faster start up than the ground version, so do something like, forward hop, and right before you land, EX fireball. This blows through all non ex fireballs and punishes slow moves. It'll also beat andy's elbow at mid range clean.
With Kim, air EX hangetsuzan is completely invincible from start to finish. If you tiger knee this move, it completely controls about 40% of the screen. It's a great tool in footsie range and is safe on block at max distance. It's so invincible that it will beat all regular uppercuts if you jump in with it. Also, Kim's stand D is invincible to lows, so if andy is going to sweep, simply st. D and get a full combo.
Shen woo can use his back hand move to negate fireballs. Because of this, Shen Woo builds a lot of meter if your opponent if willing to zone. Use this tool as often as you can, and then you have EX bionic arm super to blast through whatever you want.
I hope this helps.
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In regards to closing distance, I would advise you to re-think the context of your goal. It is not always important to close the distance. Remember that patience is a two way road in fighting games. The important thing is to always have more patience than your opponent if he is far away. Simply having patience in this situation will solve the problem of getting in for you. Eventually, your opponent will throw a bad fireball, or give up on zoning and try to attack you. As soon as this happens, the tide has changed directions in your favor. If it's hard to get in, then stay out. Find ways to play your own zoning games in response to those of your opponent.
Yeah, this part was a big help. Don't have a very good internet connection, so it's kinda hard to get this stuff, cause I kinda have one guy to practice it on besides monthly events, so that's kinda why I keep showing up here. Good at theory crafting, not much experience playing the game. Anyway, I tried being a bit more patient, and sure enough bait and catch ash started jumping in on me, ready to eat a grounded AA. Still sitting in block against most sweeps, but I'll get there. Thanks for the help!
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I'm glad I could help. I hope you become a total boss at Kof.
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Hey guys,
Just wanted to put it out there once again that I'm still active in this thread and here to help! Please don't hesitate to submit questions at any time!
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Hey David,
I really appreciate the time you take to answer all these questions. With that said, here's one more!
I'm just getting into KOF and the experience has been a combination of a lot of fun, and a lot of frustration. I've been playing Street Fighter (ST and SF4 mainly) with my buddies since 2006. I've always loved the slow and methodical pace of SF4 and how turtley of a game it can be. That really says a lot about my play style as well; I'm very defensive and would rather wait and punish than rush down.
With all that said I'm having a very hard time dictating the pace of the matches. I always seem to be playing the opponents game, and I always end up in the corner even when I'm actively trying to stay out of it. I know KOF is a much more offensive based game, so I've been trying to adapt to that, but I still seem to get pushed around into situations where they are making me guess.
My question is:
The air to air game: I almost ALWAYS lose this. My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo. I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki. In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts. You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit. I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work. I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air. It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, as I have so many more things to work on, but I figured it was a good place to start, as it's one of biggest problems. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded question!
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^Hello Softfloormat. Welcome to DreamCancel.
Before David has a shot at your question, I might offer a small tip with Mr. Karate and K' against Iori's j.D. I've used those characters a few times, and ended up outmatching Iori in the air with Mr. Karate's Hienshippukyauk (hcf+K) or K's Minute Spike (qcb+K) both in the air. If I guessed his arc correctly, the j.D came first and I hopped back or empty hopped and countered with those moves. Doesn't always work, but when it does, it can make the Iori player rethink using j.D as much as he wants to. Don't know if David will say otherwise, but this might work for you.
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My question is:
The air to air game: I almost ALWAYS lose this. My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo. I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki. In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts. You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit. I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work. I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air. It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, as I have so many more things to work on, but I figured it was a good place to start, as it's one of biggest problems. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded question!
Great question! Like you said, the air to air game is a very prevalent aspect of this game, and needs to be learned in order to play competitively. The first important thing to remember is that air normals have startup and active frames just like all other moves. In that sense, footsies in the air share some principles with footsies on the ground. It's all about touching your opponent with your active hitbox before he does the same to you.
First off, when jumping, you must mentally be prepared to go for either an attempt at an AIR TO AIR, or an attempt at a JUMP IN. I put these two terms in bold because they are two completely different decisions. The optimal spacing and timing for an air to air is different than the optimal spacing and timing for a jump in for any given air normal.
When attempting an air to air, you must be EXPECTING your opponent to be in the air already when you press your attack. In that sense, this is a READ. That's why at high levels, you see players whiffing hop CD at certain ranges over and over again (Tokido's Karate comes to mind). It's because they are simply controlling that space, which is the hop trajectory of your opponent.
If you are going for a jump in, generally speaking you will be pressing your button much later in your jump than you would for an air to air.
There is some inherent risk to an air to air if you do it at close range. Because you are pressing the button earlier than you would for a jump in, most air to air attempts can be ducked and possibly anti air'ed with a low. If both players go for an air to air at the same time, the player whose attacks comes out FIRST will always win. This is why moves like Karate's jump CD are so good (it has extremely quick startup). If your Karate's jump CD is consistently being beaten by Iori's jump D, that means Iori's attack is active before your attack is active. This will always happen if you are trying to REACT to their air to air attempt with your own air to air.
General rule of thumb: You won't be able to react to an air to air attempt which is spaced and timed well with your own air to air. Instead, you want to REACT with either an anti air low or something invincible. You CAN react to a jump in attempt with an air to air, because they will be pressing their attack much later than if they were to go for an air to air.
Remember that going for air to airs is going to be a matter of reading and prediction. Do your attack before your opponent does his, and your attack will win. I hope this helps!
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Thanks David! That's a good point about air to airs being a read, rather than an actual reaction. Yeah, I think I was trying to react to the j. D too much. Thanks again, sir!
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I've hit a rut in the neutral/footsie and defensive aspects of the game.
I'm trying to do more trip guard punishes against jump-ins and I understand the concept of it. However, I don't understand how players are able to visualize that a trip guard punish is viable at certain points. I'm assuming there's some reading involved but is there a good rule of thumb when attempting a trip guard punish? I can understand against normal and super jumps but I've seen players trip guard small hops and I don't understand how they read/react to that. A slight misjudgment could mean they eat a combo. I know this is what separates the good and bad players but any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Honestly for me I just look for certain habits the opponent is doing while they are hopping in. If I notice a player using Shen or Daimon or Vice using a hop CD a lot, I know for sure that I will be able to trip guard anti-air with with crouching B if they are close to me. Plus, you have to be able to know what characters jump normals can be easily trip-guard anti-aired. I use record/playback functions in training mode to test and figure that out.
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I've hit a rut in the neutral/footsie and defensive aspects of the game.
I'm trying to do more trip guard punishes against jump-ins and I understand the concept of it. However, I don't understand how players are able to visualize that a trip guard punish is viable at certain points. I'm assuming there's some reading involved but is there a good rule of thumb when attempting a trip guard punish? I can understand against normal and super jumps but I've seen players trip guard small hops and I don't understand how they read/react to that. A slight misjudgment could mean they eat a combo. I know this is what separates the good and bad players but any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the late reply! This is an excellent question. Anti airing with a low (what you're referring to as trip guard), is in essence the same as anti-airing normally. The major difference is that a successful anti air low B can lead to a full combo, which is obviously very important. The only rule of thumb that I can suggest would be that your anti air low will only work if your opponent is 1.) hopping or jumping in from slightly too far away to hit you (meaning they have mis-spaced their offense) or 2.) they have pressed their jump in attack way too early (this is common if they are attempting an air-to-air, rather than a jump in).
Basically, if they have timed/spaced their jump in perfectly, your anti air low will get beat out by their jump in and you will eat a full combo. In terms of being able to visualize/react to jump/hop ins, the first thing to take note of is the range of your low attack. You want to constantly remember that your low B is in fact an anti air tool, but only at specific ranges against different characters. Remember that sometimes an anti air low simply won't work, and that other anti-air options will be necessary. Knowing these specific ranges will require some training mode, and over time this reaction will become instinctual. With that said, it's pretty hard to do haha. That's why you only see it consistently being done at the highest levels.
Also, a note about terminology: Trip guard refers to a mechanic in games which allows characters to recover instantly as they land and block right away. If trip guard was in KoFXIII, anti airing with lows into full combos would actually be impossible (unless you're Vice LOLOL). "Trip guard" as a term has unfortunately been misused by many stream commentators (including myself, regrettably) so that people say it to mean the exact OPPOSITE of what it actually means. What we're really talking about when most people say trip guard is anti airing with a low.
I hope this was helpful!
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Well I guess I could give that a try....
-Training mode, is it possible to teach the second player to do fireballs all the time without me having to do them with the 2nd pad? As in you record a movement and then it gets repeated all the time?
-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?
-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?
- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much
- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.
There is a ton to learn it seems.
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Welcome to Dream Cancel. I'll answer a few of your questions at the moment.
-Training mode, is it possible to teach the second player to do fireballs all the time without me having to do them with the 2nd pad? As in you record a movement and then it gets repeated all the time?
Use record and playback mode. I show how to use it to test against safe and unsafe moves. I will make a video show how to use it to evade incoming offensive attacks.
KOFXIII Record mode tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-3OtPcl3zQ#ws)
-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?
HD mode is very important way to inflict massive damage in KOFXIII. I feel that it is important to master them because once you have the resources to be able to use them, you can really put a lot of fear into your opponent from getting hit just once. Different characters have more useful HD combos in the corner and mid-screen with different meter requirements and damage levels. I would suggest learning just one easy combo with your characters, then progress to something more harder and optimal later.
- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much
That's a good question. Honestly, watching match videos can show you various blockstrings that players use with their character. Next time you watch a match video, pay attention to what happens when either of the characters are on defense blocking in the corner (or mid-screen). Look at what strings they use to put pressure on the opponent or certain way they bait the opponent into pressing a button or mashing out a reversal.
- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.
Here is one for Andy created by Sparkster (that is in english)
Quick Max - Andy Master Class Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOE-yk-cW3U#ws)
and here is one for King:
http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/b/310947436 (http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/b/310947436)
You can view more here: http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/videos (http://www.twitch.tv/quickmax/videos)
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Just adding a little bit to what Desmond has said already; and officially welcome to Dream Cancel Feckless.
-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?
It's not like custom combos from SFA3's V-sim or CVS2's A-Groove where you can do continuous specials/normals to do guard breaks. If you've performed a Drive Cancel, which is cancelling from a normal/special into a special/super, an activated HD mode allows you do to unlimited cancels that can combo or juggle your opponent for big damage. You can deliver a huge chunk of damage and show off, but you'll have to guard break without it, unless someone can note an exception.
-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?
It's possible that online lag was affecting your gameplay too, but I think run-ins can specifically work depending on the character and what normals they have. Most players will try hyper-hopping or super-jumping into their attacks. I've used run-ins to get close-up attacks or stopped short to throw a special at them, but I'm much more cautions when I do; it's easier to stop a run-in attack than any kind of jump. You'll notice some characters, especially the speedy characters, do it better than others.
- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much
- I am searching for character specific tutorial videos similar to the Master class ones, but please in English or with subs. I am not that much interested in combo vids, just videos to learn the basics, tricks and setups of the characters. I do play Andy, Athena and Robert, but would also be interested in learning Joe, Shen, King and Takuma.
There is a ton to learn it seems.
I can't think of any tutorials or character-specific videos like Master-class for XIII right now. Best resource I'd recommend for right now is our wiki and character threads to see what's been specifically posted already. If I find anything else specific you're looking for, I'll post it here.
Hope what I've written helps so far. David will be able to take things into more detail when he responds.
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First of all thanks for the welcome and the info.
It's not like custom combos from SFA3's V-sim or CVS2's A-Groove where you can do continuous specials/normals to do guard breaks. If you've performed a Drive Cancel, which is cancelling from a normal/special into a special/super, an activated HD mode allows you do to unlimited cancels that can combo or juggle your opponent for big damage. You can deliver a huge chunk of damage and show off, but you'll have to guard break without it, unless someone can note an exception.
Ah I thought it was this way after seeing this video here
http://dreamcancel.com/2012/07/28/kof-xiii-%E5%B8%B8%E8%AD%98%E7%9A%84%E3%81%AB%E8%80%83%E3%81%88%E3%81%A6-coordinated-guard-crush/ (http://dreamcancel.com/2012/07/28/kof-xiii-%E5%B8%B8%E8%AD%98%E7%9A%84%E3%81%AB%E8%80%83%E3%81%88%E3%81%A6-coordinated-guard-crush/)
It's possible that online lag was affecting your gameplay too, but I think run-ins can specifically work depending on the character and what normals they have. Most players will try hyper-hopping or super-jumping into their attacks. I've used run-ins to get close-up attacks or stopped short to throw a special at them, but I'm much more cautions when I do; it's easier to stop a run-in attack than any kind of jump. You'll notice some characters, especially the speedy characters, do it better than others.
Lag might really be a reason although I am sure that a lack of skill from my side was also involved. Sadly there is not much of a KoF scene around here (Germany).
I can't think of any tutorials or character-specific videos like Master-class for XIII right now. Best resource I'd recommend for right now is our wiki and character threads to see what's been specifically posted already. If I find anything else specific you're looking for, I'll post it here.
Thanks, this already helped a lot. Do non-japanese people here really sit through the master class series?
Use record and playback mode. I show how to use it to test against safe and unsafe moves. I will make a video show how to use it to evade incoming offensive attacks.
Holy hell, I never would have figured out that on my own. Man, I can't remember reading this in the manual. Thanks, also for the great tutorials.
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-HD mode. I haven't figured this one out yet (aside from some HDBypass shenanigans). Is it just for showing off, or a legimate way to guard break a defense and get and huge chunk of damage in? How important to ones game is it to have HD combos mastered?
-Run in game. I am clueless about that one as well it seems. Last time I was playing online I really had trouble to hit after run ins and also to defend against a run in (as if the opponent was always able to hit me first). Is there something I am missing? How does a run-in game plan look like? Mix up high and low with hyperhops, break and use special, fastest pokes / reversal?
- Is there a good resource for learning block strings creating pressure in the corner and escaping in the corner? There seem to be a ton of videos when it comes to combos but blockstrings not that much
Hey there! It seems like the other guys have answered most of your questions, so I'll just add my two cents regarding these topics.
HD mode is extremely important for most characters in the game. Very few characters have really bad optimized HD combos (King and Duolon). Remember that for any character you play, the combo you do should be geared towards METER OPTIMIZATION. This means, do the most damage as you can with a given combo starter and specific amount of meter. This will take some looking around/experimenting in training mode.
If you ever have full HD and your opponent has over 700 life, you will almost always need to do a meter efficient HD combo to kill them. Not being able to do this combo means that in these situations, you will not be able to win the match when you otherwise could have. This may be important or not, depending on how good/competitive you want to be.
When running, you can cancel your run into any normal attack or special move. However, you CANNOT cancel your run into a block. If you run and then hold back, there will be a couple frames where you are vulnerable. When playing online, even a couple frames of lag could make you very vulnerable while running. In terms of running in or rushing down, there is no set formula per se. What you should really be concentrating on is the movement and intention of your opponent. Remember to think critically, because telegraphing your offense with specific hop or attack patterns will not work in the long run. It may win you a couple matches here and there, but it won't make you a better KoF player.
When learning block strings, there are two things to consider:
1.) Is it safe on block? If not, what can it be punished by, and does my opponent know?
2.) Can it be easily guard cancel rolled and then punished?
Most of the time, your block strings will be a slightly modified version of your actual BnB combo that is safe on block and not easily guard cancel rolled. This will vary largely by what character you are playing.
I hope this helps! It's always great to see new players get into the game, and I hope you get a chance to play offline soon! In the long run, online play can actually hurt your KoF abilities.
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My question is:
The air to air game: I almost ALWAYS lose this. My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo. I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki. In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts. You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit. I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work. I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air. It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.
Something that works for me 90% of the time in air to air is jumping with A or B, do you remember Vega's SF2 The World Warrior?? its very similar and can beat lot of C or D attacks in air
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Something that works for me 90% of the time in air to air is jumping with A or B, do you remember Vega's SF2 The World Warrior?? its very similar and can beat lot of C or D attacks in air
I agree with this because many j.A's and j.B's have faster start up than j.C's and j.D's. Just make sure the direction of the attack is more horizontal if you're trying to hit air-to-air.
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one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.
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one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.
this is good stuff. i use andys j.A over j.B for the same reason.
anyways, i could use a bit of advice with team choice and synergy... ive been playing since release and even a lil bit before that messing with the arcade version. after all this time i still just cannot settle on a 3rd character for my main team. its really holding me back.
for a long time ive just been doing [ Andy / X / Terry ] and [ X / Andy / Terry. ] i really want my team to be [ Andy / Terry / X ]
ive spent time on other characters but cant settle on anyone that feels right for 3rd. these are characters ive tried learning from best to worst:
1. Andy
2. Terry
3. Elisabeth
4. Mai
5. Iori
6. Vice
7. Athena
Iori was the obvious first choice... i stuck with him for awhile and im just not liking the feel of him.
i originally picked up Elisabeth as anchor because she can hurt with a little meter and a lot, but the opponents amount of meter is too much of a problem for me with Elisabeth. i really like this character and shes my 3rd best, but i have to put her on 1st or 2nd to work. similar issue with Vice, the opponents meter just keeps me at bay in the last round. i felt more restricted than with terry, which is the main reason i want to get him off 3rd.
ive been reccomended to pick up takuma as anchor for the same reason i was wanting to put elisabeth there. i feel like with takumas lack of defense i will just be having the same problems i am with other characters ive tried to put on anchor. as much as i feel Terrys lack of tools hurts me in the last round, atleast he has a great jab for hops and decent command normal for jumps.
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one thing to keep in mind about air to airs is that the player that is the highest up into the air will tend to win if both players use typical air to airs(usually horizontal) simply because the lower player will whiff or be hit in the head early. Beni for example jumps high so for characters with for example j.A's like Ryo or Joe that hit high up that's a good option if your opponent ends up higher up than you for one reason or another.
this is good stuff. i use andys j.A over j.B for the same reason.
anyways, i could use a bit of advice with team choice and synergy... ive been playing since release and even a lil bit before that messing with the arcade version. after all this time i still just cannot settle on a 3rd character for my main team. its really holding me back.
for a long time ive just been doing [ Andy / X / Terry ] and [ X / Andy / Terry. ] i really want my team to be [ Andy / Terry / X ]
ive spent time on other characters but cant settle on anyone that feels right for 3rd. these are characters ive tried learning from best to worst:
1. Andy
2. Terry
3. Elisabeth
4. Mai
5. Iori
6. Vice
7. Athena
Iori was the obvious first choice... i stuck with him for awhile and im just not liking the feel of him.
i originally picked up Elisabeth as anchor because she can hurt with a little meter and a lot, but the opponents amount of meter is too much of a problem for me with Elisabeth. i really like this character and shes my 3rd best, but i have to put her on 1st or 2nd to work. similar issue with Vice, the opponents meter just keeps me at bay in the last round. i felt more restricted than with terry, which is the main reason i want to get him off 3rd.
ive been reccomended to pick up takuma as anchor for the same reason i was wanting to put elisabeth there. i feel like with takumas lack of defense i will just be having the same problems i am with other characters ive tried to put on anchor. as much as i feel Terrys lack of tools hurts me in the last round, atleast he has a great jab for hops and decent command normal for jumps.
Unfortunately, settling on a 3rd character (or any character for that matter) is not an issue that someone else can help you with. What character you play (and the reason you want to play them) is a very personal decision for every player. If you are considering all of the above characters and really have no preference for any of them, I recommend considering tiers (Iori and Vice would be better choices than Mai, and arguably Athena).
What I can say for sure, however, is that you SHOULD make a committed decision, and don't look back. Remember that ANY character you pick up will be weak in your hands initially, and you will get bodied over and over again with that new character. This doesn't mean that the character is not right for you, but merely that you need to stick with that character more to get better. Therefore, switching between lots of characters trying to decide on a 3rd based on your match results is not productive. You will only get your 3rd character on par with your other two if you stick to that character for an extended period of time. Also, be open minded in your team order. I definitely recommend putting whoever your new character is first in your lineup, because your first character will inevitably get the most playtime throughout casual sessions. I hope this was helpful!
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Thanks for the reply, much appreciated! =]
I guess I should rephrase what im trying to ask though. Ive very well considered just committing and sticking with my 3rd best character, but thats where my real problem comes in. Liz clicked with me a lot better than the other characters ive spent time learning. Im confident in being able to use her as an individual character, but I feel a small clash in synergy pairing her up with Andy and Terry. Ive learned Liz enough to the point where I dont think ill ever be comfortable putting her as my anchor. Kinda like how I wouldn't want to put Terry on point or Andy as anchor for my main team (admittedly, I know Liz can potentially play all 3 positions just as competently).
My most common team is [ X / Andy / Terry ] because im usually always trying to buff up a character. I can comfortably play Liz 2nd though, so I can atleast use my Andy at 100% when I feel like it. Same with Vice even though I suck with her. Im left forcing Terry on anchor, which is what I want to change the most and I just dont see happening if I stick with Liz. I can hold it down with Terry on anchor most of the time, but I just play him much better on 2nd when the opponent isnt fully loaded. I feel its due to his general lack of tools and is why im one of the only Terry players that always puts him on anchor. Would you say thats true, or can everyone play their anchor better on 2nd?
Do you guys think that im right at all about the team synergy, or am I just overthinking things and [ Andy / Liz / Terry ] is just as capable of a combination as any team?
One things for sure though. I really feel you on how all my time spent was not productive. While ive gotten better at the game, I feel im in no better a spot than I was 6+ months ago.
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Well, although there are generally accepted rules of what makes a good point/anchor, at the end of the day it's all about what you make of it. For example, Justin Wong runs King as his anchor despite the fact that King is a horrible anchor, and still manages to do well in every tournament he enters. So in that sense, if a character is not working out in a certain position, it may be wise to switch around your order. Also, perhaps there are unexplored facets of your character that would resolve the problem (for example, learning a different combo that uses more meter than you have been using previously, so that your character is more potent on anchor when fully stocked).
It sounds like your opponent having tons of meter during the last round is a problem for you. If this is the case, I would analyze it separately to see what exactly you are doing to give him that much meter. Are you consistently landing HD with your 2nd? If so, maybe your 2nd should be your anchor. This is all just food for thought, but in the end team order is something you need to decide on for yourself. I've seen many great players play really weird/dumb team orders for whatever reason and it totally works out for them. The most important part is to have confidence in your game plan.
On paper, team synergy matters. If someone came up to me and asked if Shen, Duolon, Kula is a good team order, I'd say hell no and that he should run Kula or Duolon on point. However, in practice I've realized that team synergy doesn't matter nearly as much as the skill of the player. Your team in particular is not bad. You lack a truly top tier character, and among Andy Terry Liz all three are not known to be strong anchors, but all three can function as point or 2nd successfully. It then comes down to who's HDs you are most consistent with, because that character will bring you the most comebacks. You can play any of your characters well enough to be great anchors, it just takes a little more work than traditional anchors like claw Iori or Shen. I guess the whole point of what I'm trying to say is, don't sweat the details. Just keep grinding with your team, and the best order will present itself to you naturally.
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Hi im new at KoF, im play Kof in past but is long time ago, dont know about HD mode and Neo Max,just know Super aka DM
im big fan of Art Of Fighting Team, what best formation, what put first Ryo or Robert, I Think takuma the last because He is Sensei.
and Ryo doesnt have target combo to special,like Robert and Takuma Crazy flying kick loop
who is master Ryo or good high level player Ryo so i can see in Yutube
Thanks for help :)
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Hi im new at KoF, im play Kof in past but is long time ago, dont know about HD mode and Neo Max,just know Super aka DM
im big fan of Art Of Fighting Team, what best formation, what put first Ryo or Robert, I Think takuma the last because He is Sensei.
and Ryo doesnt have target combo to special,like Robert and Takuma Crazy flying kick loop
who is master Ryo or good high level player Ryo so i can see in Yutube
Thanks for help :)
Hello and welcome! Check out the video below, featuring Kaoru. Kaoru is considered to be one of the best Ryo players in the world. This is a first to 5 set between him and Mr. KoF of SoCal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0brdV6G9bU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0brdV6G9bU)
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Hello and welcome! Check out the video below, featuring Kaoru. Kaoru is considered to be one of the best Ryo players in the world. This is a first to 5 set between him and Mr. KoF of SoCal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0brdV6G9bU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0brdV6G9bU)
Thanks for tip
want to ask again, in previous Kof,Kof XII you can do blowback(launcher) to Ryuko Ranbu or Flying kick in this current Kof can do it again ?
is there different with normal Blowback and counter hit blowback ?
thanks
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want to ask again, in previous Kof,Kof XII you can do blowback(launcher) to Ryuko Ranbu or Flying kick in this current Kof can do it again ?
is there different with normal Blowback and counter hit blowback ?
thanks
In kofxii most characters used s.C chained into C+D (blowback) as a hitconfirm. In this game C+D can't be chained into or out of, only canceled into special or super moves. C+D only puts the opponent into a juggle state on counter hit so unless you have a special move with anywhere juggle properties you have to counter hit with C+D in order to be able to combo off of it.
Most C+D's are good stand alone moves, they may for example evade lows or have alot of active frames and block stun.
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Are normal moves the same amount of negative/positive frames on hit as they are on block?
Ex: I poke with far C. It is -6 on block. Is it -6 on hit too?
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Moves cause more hitstun then they do blockstun, so assuming the move doesn't blow them back or cause some other effect on hit, a hit will always be more positive than a blocked hit. Most moves will be positive on hit (though in some games there are exceptions) so you'll be at a frame advantage for applying pressure. Also the extra frame advantage is that reason you can combo in most cases.
Also keep this in mind if you are attempting a tick throw, because the added hitstun will cause the throw attempt to fail.
(Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes answering this)