Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Terry Bogard => Topic started by: dmick1981 on March 12, 2012, 10:26:42 PM
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Can someone help me out with terry vs. Clark, takuma/mr karate, benimaru, and leona matchups
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Terry vs. Clark
This matchup you have to know very well because it's a matter of zoning and blockstring choices. You won't have much room for error. On the neutral game, where you're both not near each other, Clark is going to try to do hop/jump CD all day to get in. Don't let him do that. Every time you can, jump straight up over him and use jump D to poke him. Clark's jump CD is tilted down so its hitbox is also tilted down. This means that moves that come from above him won't work.
When he does get in, you need to be ready to use C rising tackle if he uses is B SAB. The reason being is C rising tackle comes out in 5 frames. When it does come out, it has an extra couple of frames where you're at the height you can hit Clark. You'll knock him out of his SAB all the time.
He's a command grappler so blockstrings ending in D crackshoot (If they block standing), you need to be ready to jump. He can grab you right out of it, but if they're not paying attention, you can hop straight up for a quick combo from their whiffed grab. Keep pressuring him and always take the initiative. Don't let him gain an opportunity to mix you up.
Always remember that the Gatling Attack is not safe on block. Any version. Most Clark players will try to grab you and most of the time, if you use slow moves, they will hit you. However, if you use d.B at the earliest time, you'll hit him before he is able to grab. EX version, I would just jump straight up. They either block or they whiff their grab.
Terry vs. Takuma/Mr. Karate/Benimaru/Shoto-esque characters
Takuma, Mr. Karate, and Benimaru all share a similar type of gameplay style. Zone until they get in your face. For Takuma and Benimaru, they also have similar threats in command grabs (and normal grabs in the corner). They utilize fireballs and anti-airs to keep you out until they can pressure with neat cross ups or mixups. The best way to fight them is to get a hard knockdown and apply copious amounts of pressure. Go for the d.B, d.A, d.C blockstring into power wave or EX power wave to keep them blocking, then go for the cross up.
If you notice any shoto/fireball-like character is trying to keep you out, EX power wave and C power wave eat fireballs. C powerwave also scores a soft knockdown which, if they're not ready for, could give you a cross up or a free way to get in. Stay outside of their grab range and poke them with far C's, catch jump in's with df+C, and rush in with low B's to keep them stuck. What I like to do is run up, do d.B twice, st.B, then do CD. The CD comes out pretty fast and you can whiff cancel it into a fireball or crackshoot. I prefer to do crackshoot to keep pressuring them and frame trap them.
Remember, Terry's D crackshoot, if they block low, is a frame trap. You're +2 frames on block. If you think they're going to command grab you, just jump up and they'll whiff it. Same with a normal grab. If not, use st.C or d.B/d.A as they're your fastest moves. If they try to press any normals or specials, you'll beat them.
Specifically for Takuma, he has no means of anti-airing. You should poke at that and get in his face a lot. He can't grab you if you time your jump-in's right so you can keep pressuring him with hop mixups like d.B x2, hop D, sweep, df+C (You can cancel your SWEEP into anything as well, especially df+C or a fireball, try that too)
Above all else, stay lucid. Don't get into the same strings of attacks and pressure. Give them raw aggression and never ease up.
Terry vs. Leona
This is sometimes a tough match especially if you like to jump and your opponent is reactive. You need to take advantage of every hard knockdown and unsafe move Leona does. For example, if she does her blockstring (d.B x2, f+B, qcf+P). It's not safe. You can run up and punish her. When she throws her earrings and runs up with her slash attack, that is safe. What you want to do is jump the earring on its first bounce and throw out hop D. I did say jump, but you actually need to hop that fireball.
Be mindful of her moon slasher and baltic launcher. You, as a Terry player, need to be patient with Leona. Don't let her get comfortable with her hit and run tactics. She will run at you or just turtle. Whenever you see the orb attack (Baltic launcher), get in close and throw a C power wave or an EX power wave. The reason is because they go through the orb and knock her down every time. Same with her earring, your fireball eats it. Try to pressure Leona with safe jumps and overheads. Tick throw her to set yourself up for crossups. You never want to jump at her just to do it. Her Moon slasher comes out fast and has some decent range. Her EX moon slasher makes her invulnerable. However, if you block moon slasher, you can run up and punish her. With Leona, you're really playing the waiting game and playing against the player. Just play smart and crack open that defense.
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Man ran into another wall against a saiki and mai. Saiki can zone me out and mai has the godlike normals
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I'm not an expert on the match up at all, but I play both Terry and Saiki, and it suffices to say that Saiki's zoning game is nothing out of the ordinary. if you guess correctly when he's about to shoot a fireball, a well placed jump in will do the job, as he has considerable start up and recovery on his fireball. terry's super jump is high and goes far, so take advantage of that. hell, if you don't want to chase him, just shoot power wave until he comes to you, because he can't win fireball wars. his ex fireball isn't designed for zoning, and his C fireball is for antiair/juggle purposes. his fireball DM is....slow. even a well placed ex power wave will force him to stop chucking fireballs. so just play smart when making your way in, do some zoning of your own, make good use of C power wave up close, and don't be afraid to let the opponent know your willing to blow them up with ex buster wolf if they get brain dead with the projectiles.
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So I found out some interesting stuff with Benimaru.
If you backdash when you see Benimaru normal jump and do like j.D, you can sweep him or low B him. If you walk back just a little bit or walk forward just a little bit from where the training model is and you are, you will always trip him up with Terry's low B into full combo.
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So, I know its been quite some time, but I decided to add some more info for those Terry players that are having trouble with Kim.
Terry vs. Kim
Break down: Terry vs. Kim isn't as hard a match as some people think. Because Terry has such long range normals and he has his own charge reversal, it makes it so Kim cannot jump as easily on Terry. Also, without very complicated setups for crossups, Kim only has a few options outside of some specific instances where crossups are ambiguous or easy. The key is to find the holes where Kim can be hit out of for Terry and making quick use of them. There's also avoiding taking the bait in his ground game to punish him. Recognizing at what range and at what juncture Kim likes to do certain things, Terry can make Kim really sweat.
The traps - Kim has some fairly safe moves and semi-safe moves that you should keep track of. For example, his EX Hangetsuzan is safe. He will try to poke you out of anything you do and he likely will. His super (Hououhitenkyaku) is also safe. On knockdown, his EX Hienzan (A.K.A the Flash Kick) has 3 frames of start up. Most characters can only legitimately safe jump (Jump-in on someone and hit them through a non-invul reversal or block before they're hit by an invul reversal) a 4F reversal. Since it's a d~u motion, crossing him up won't matter. So trying to attempt a regular safejump when he has meter is a bad idea.
His far st.D, on block, is +3. It's his most positive move on block. It's also low crushes (Lower body invulnerability) so it'll go right over any low you use on the first hit. If you block it, be patient. His d.B, d.B, d.B, st.B string is safe even though st.B is -6. You can't punish it with Terry, but his pressure ends from there (He's also really far away!). His far st.C and st.CD are also safe because of the pushback. You're really far away from Kim and his pressure ends here so you're both at natural afterwards. He can't special cancel far st.C either, but he can cancel st.CD (Though, anything he cancels into probably isn't safe so it's just a nice zoning tool). His EX Hishokyaku (His air stomp special), on hit can be really crazy. Kim can jump on top of Terry and cross him up by special cancelling his normal into this move. So he can cross you up twice. Very dirty stuff as well as being safe on block too. For all of these situations. If you see them, block and reflect. Just take your time. Even great Kim's have to depend on unsafe things to get in damage so wait for that opportunity, space them out, and wait for them to make a mistake.
The holes - Now that we've identified what the traps are, lets identify his holes against Terry. Almost all of Kim's specials are unsafe on block or whiff. Any Hangetsuzan can be full punished by Terry's st.B. D Hangetsuzan pushes you a bit away from him, but it's so terrible on block that Terry can literally run forward and deck him with st.D. However, better Kim's aren't going to give you that window all the time so you need to know what other holes they'll use. Some Kim's will try to do his air Hangetsuzan. No version of it is safe. That's HD combo punishable The EX Air Hangetsuzan might be invulnerable, but if you block and wait, it's at least -1. You can throw him or beat out anything that's not EX Hienzan with d.B, st.C, or st.D. Even then, that's two meter to cover up a bad move.
St.B is -6 on block. The time where he's vulnerable is when Kim brings back his leg right after the kick. Just before he returns to neutral. That's your moment to strike. Pay attention to what the guy does. Even the best Kim's will fall into a pattern. Will he do two d.Bs, one down B, or three? If he does d.B, st.B, you can punish it with EX Rising Tackle and st.B, if he does two d.Bs, you can punish it with Terry's st.B!
You have a no meter punisher for Terry! You can follow it up with B Crackshoot, but that won't combo. With meter, you can punish big with a super or EX Burn Knuckle (Though the timing is rough). Either way, he can't use st.B as an easy pressure tool anymore.
Another thing to note is ff+A. If you're blocking high, ff+A will bounce off of you and rebound backwards. This not safe AT ALL. If he does nothing, you can hit him with A burn knuckle EASY. However, most Kim's won't do that. If you block high, they might try to hit you with Hangetsuzan or with a normal on the way back like st.B. That's fine. If you notice them do any of that and you have meter, EX Buster Wolf or EX Power Geyser will roll right through any follow up they do for extra damage (Except EX Hangetsuzan, but again that's waste of meter). You can also just block. Again, almost ALL of Kim's specials are NOT safe on block.
The other option is you can duck ff+A. If someone is auto-piloting Kim, holding down is your best bet. If you duck it, he doesn't rebound and you get a full combo anyway.
His best tool is his far st.D. This is a very odd pressure tool because it puts him in such high positive frames and very good spacing. You want to avoid blocking this at all costs. The best way to deal with it is to not deal with it. Like I said before, it low crushes, but it also hits high. This means you can duck under the first hit. If you throw out a d.A, you're still crouching, but d.A is a mid attack. You basically have a move that allows you to interrupt the move before it hits you. Just keep in mind where his far normals start in comparison to you and you can d.A through them. Terry combos into d.C for free so you can get a free combo off of Kim whenever he does that.
Tricks and tips
Although it's tempting, do not try to overuse crackshoot. Although he's charging down, you don't want to accidentally get hit with a flashkick. Use it a few times and throughout the round or bait them into trying to beat the move or in block strings you normally would end with crackshoot. Also, EX Crackshoot is perfect because you can set up hard knockdowns and Kim is habitually blocking low. Strings like sweep into D crackshoot or EX crackshoot will really hurt Kim in the long run.
On the offense, try to stay outside of his sweep range, which is long. Staying that far gives you enough time to react to anything he throws at you and poke him if he doesn't do anything. You also can take advantage of your hard knockdowns and test his reactions. Use empty jumps and hops to make Kim think you're trying to safe jump. In actuality, you want to jump earlier than that by just a little. You won't hit him, but you'll fool most people into thinking they can. If they're trigger happy, they'll use EX Hienzan and you get a free combo. If they don't and use his Hououhitenkyaku, you could roll before the super hits and punish the whiff or just block. Either way they're wasting meter and Kim without meter is pretty limited.
Above all, be patient and keep at it. Don't let him pressure you and use the windows to start your own offensive, whatever that may be.
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Thanks for the in-depth write up Reiki, I appreciate it. This is another real tough one for me.
Kim really tries my patience.
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luvin me the kim writeup as he also TRIES MY DAMN PAITENCE!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
any Hwa Jai matchup tech because he gets on my damn nerves with his safe ass normals/specials
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Hwa Jai versus Terry is pretty hard because he has pretty good ground normals. He doesn't have really good jumping normals aside from his j.CD, but he also has air Dragon tail and Air Dragon kick. But it's also a matter of understanding what your opponent wants to do in a certain situation and capitalizing on it. I feel it's a matter of not letting him run his game on you. For one, most of his reversals if not all of them are safe jumpable.
Also, if you didn't know, he's invulnerable during his drink super till he throws the bottle away. Before it leaves his hand and goes a little away from him, he can't do anything. I haven't tested it with Terry, but I have with other characters. Unless he's really far away from you or you're knocked down, you can poke him out of it.
In terms of poking him, you have really good hitconfirmable pokes. You can use d.B to harass him and use the d.A, d.C chain and delay in between to make a frame trap. Against Hwa, when you frame trap against him, you don't want to use specials as much unless you're spacing them. Fireball close up is a bad idea unless you're using it to pressure him (EX Fireball or a fireball on him cornered). Once you're on him, his options with meter are to command grab or DP. Stay a little away from him to DP, wait a split second after knocking him down, and then continue poking. If he's going to DP, he's going to commit to it on wake up or not at all.
Hwa Jai's slide is safe, but everything afterwards isn't. You can guess and blow up the follow up with an invincible move, you could wait and block it, or you could get out of pressure by rolling or backdashing. Best thing for Hwa is if you let him pressure you. If you stay still, he can reposition himself to cross you up with D Dragon Tail (Which Romance has shown many times can also cross up and have him land in front of you so that's dangerous).
Also, don't let him do that. If you see someone likes to do blockstrings into that, roll before it hits you (He's in the air, he won't grab you), or Rising Tackle him. Do not block that. It's like Terry's D crackshoot as well so if you have to block, don't block it crouching. His regular Dragon tail is free grab.
Over all advice, don't let him corner or pressure you. That's what makes him scary. At every given opportunity, backdash away from him, get out of the corner from a GC roll or GC blowback, or hit and run. Make him respect your ground game by knocking him out of the air with air-to-air j.B or df+C then stay on him till he cracks.
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Requesting a write up for Billy Kane! =o
Plenty of match ups give me trouble for Terry, but I would say my top 3 in no specific order go to Kim, Hwa, Billy.
Basically all characters that are good at poking...
What kind of characters / playstyles give you guys the most trouble as Terry?
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I'll try to figure out what I can do against Billy. I have a decent Billy player I play casuals with and I'll play Terry against him. Really, Billy on defense is pretty bad. Terry can keep him pinned with a lot of stuff like fireballs and normals that make his long-range normals pretty bad. Only thing is his EX DP. But I digress, needs more analysis.
Characters that give me trouble are good ambiguous cross up characters. I can't rising tackle all the time against these guys and Terry is a very specific normal sort of person. If you don't use the right normal, you can get blown up. I think characters I really don't like facing with Terry is like Mr. Karate, Daimon, Takuma, and Kyo. They're pretty hard match ups for me because I have to be cautious and that really slows me down.
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St.B is -6 on block. The time where he's vulnerable is when Kim brings back his leg right after the kick. Just before he returns to neutral. That's your moment to strike. Pay attention to what the guy does. Even the best Kim's will fall into a pattern. Will he do two d.Bs, one down B, or three? If he does d.B, st.B, you can punish it with EX Rising Tackle and st.B, if he does two d.Bs, you can punish it with Terry's st.B!
Is this one really a legit punish, or just something to throw out incase Kim continues to press after st.B? I can't get it work at all, and the frame data shows Terry's st.B as 6 frames. Only thing I can get to work is the EX tackle, and also st.A (2 frame punish?), but only against cr.B > st.B.
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I do not believe the wiki's frame data is completely accurate. In arcade, Terry's st.B was 4F. I have punished it with st.B in training mode too. That's a significant nerf to Terry's st.B if that were the case.
But yes, you CAN punish Kim's st.B with Terry's st.B. It's a legitimate punish.
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I do not believe the wiki's frame data is completely accurate. In arcade, Terry's st.B was 4F. I have punished it with st.B in training mode too. That's a significant nerf to Terry's st.B if that were the case.
But yes, you CAN punish Kim's st.B with Terry's st.B. It's a legitimate punish.
Even if it is 6 frames that's not too bad all it means is it is a 1 frame punish
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I'm having trouble in match-ups where my st.A / df.C gets stuffed a lot. Things like Clark hop and jump j.B / j.CD seems to always get me.
I'm not fully aware of all moves where df.C is not a good anti-air on jumps. Another one that gets me off the top of my head, while Terry is cornered, I can't seem to df.C Chin when he does full jumps on me.
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I'm having trouble in match-ups where my st.A / df.C gets stuffed a lot. Things like Clark hop and jump j.B / j.CD seems to always get me.
I'm not fully aware of all moves where df.C is not a good anti-air on jumps. Another one that gets me off the top of my head, while Terry is cornered, I can't seem to df.C Chin when he does full jumps on me.
I think that Df+c is always a valid AA it's about timing and spacing though.
It's 4 frames sometime it may trade but remember it gets a soft KD so that's fine
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im having real trouble punishing clarks ;bk ;fd ;a, ;c and ex ;bk ;fd ;a ;c into ;a, ;c and ex command grab with terry. ive punished it in training mode but when i play my buddys clark it dosent seem to work. is it spacing dependent or dose it just not work
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You should punish with st.B and far C. ( 6 and 7 frames)
IIRC, A Gatling is -10, C Gatling -16, EX Gatling -10.
With practice it shouldn't be any problem to do consistently offline. Online it is tough to always get it. You can cancel into Buster Wolf or an HD combo when you're confident at punishing it.
I don't think there's any spacing issues with st.B and far C. At -10 it is just a stricter punish when you can only throw out a 6 or 7 frame move.
I can't remember if cr.B always connects, but an easier punish would be cr.B > qcf.B > qcf.B
Edit: I probly shouldn't had said anything before since I hadn't played in awhile, heheh. No one has bothered to correct me yet though. I think best punishes would be cr.C and df.C. If you are having trouble with consistency I think df.C is the best bet since it's 4 frames. Both easy to cancel into specials and HD.
The only real thing to watch out for is if the 1st hit is blocked and the 2nd hit whiffs. It's still punishable, but that's easy to throw off your timing if you're not expecting it. I unfortunately can't give any advice as when to expect the 2nd hit to whiff or not.
The 1st hit can whiff while the 2nd hit connects, but that's a bit easier to react and punish.
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Hi everyone,
Does anyone have any general tops for fighting Elizabeth? My friend just bodied me with her at a meet up.
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For Elizabeth, the way I would approach her is getting in and staying in. She doesn't have really good normals close up, but her fireball, teleport, DP, and command grab are all problematic. However, if you keep her pinned down with normals, she can't do much. From very far away, she can't do anything either and you can't do anything to her so you want to get a knock down from far away and work your way in so she's on defense.
Start off from about mid-range. You can test to see what the person likes to do by throwing the A power wave. If they like to hop, you'll have to respect it as her j.D and j.CD are relatively long reaching and will net her some damage if she hits you with them. Avoid giving her any clean air-to-airs, play on the ground if you can. If she tries to use her fireball to negate things, switch it up and use C power wave. She'll get knocked down and can't dispel it. Get in on her and stick to her.
If she has meter, you want to be careful of her counter, but for the most part, it's a pretty non-issue. Bait people who like to counter by empty jumping. Go in for a low right after to keep them honest and get a combo. Her DP is also invincible and her EX teleport as well. That's why I say stick to mid range where most of this stuff will whiff, but she has to move in on you for damage. Without meter, her DP isn't invulnerable (or safe, sweep her after), her teleport isn't really good, and her command throw is not a combo extender. Keep pressuring her with st.B to make her frustrated and push her into the corner where she can't run.
If you can, throw in some frame traps like D crackshoot or delay normals like d.A into d.C so they're more likely not to block. Elizabeth, again, doesn't have very good normals so you can tag her if she's trying to get out with specials. Worse she can do is try to normal throw you; none of her normals or specials are super fast and you can tech the throw.
I play a lot of Elizabeth players so I'm used to it.
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Thanks Reiki! Good to get some Terry info from one of the best!
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Wouldn't say I'm deserving of that honor, but I appreciate you appreciate my advice.
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For Elizabeth, the way I would approach her is getting in and staying in. She doesn't have really good normals close up, but her fireball, teleport, DP, and command grab are all problematic. However, if you keep her pinned down with normals, she can't do much. From very far away, she can't do anything either and you can't do anything to her so you want to get a knock down from far away and work your way in so she's on defense.
Start off from about mid-range. You can test to see what the person likes to do by throwing the A power wave. If they like to hop, you'll have to respect it as her j.D and j.CD are relatively long reaching and will net her some damage if she hits you with them. Avoid giving her any clean air-to-airs, play on the ground if you can. If she tries to use her fireball to negate things, switch it up and use C power wave. She'll get knocked down and can't dispel it. Get in on her and stick to her.
If she has meter, you want to be careful of her counter, but for the most part, it's a pretty non-issue. Bait people who like to counter by empty jumping. Go in for a low right after to keep them honest and get a combo. Her DP is also invincible and her EX teleport as well. That's why I say stick to mid range where most of this stuff will whiff, but she has to move in on you for damage. Without meter, her DP isn't invulnerable (or safe, sweep her after), her teleport isn't really good, and her command throw is not a combo extender. Keep pressuring her with st.B to make her frustrated and push her into the corner where she can't run.
If you can, throw in some frame traps like D crackshoot or delay normals like d.A into d.C so they're more likely not to block. Elizabeth, again, doesn't have very good normals so you can tag her if she's trying to get out with specials. Worse she can do is try to normal throw you; none of her normals or specials are super fast and you can tech the throw.
I play a lot of Elizabeth players so I'm used to it.
A few things to add/change
Terry has nothing to fear from her hop d or hop cd well nothing more so than he would any other person with a jump attack with a downward angles hurt box terry can easily AA her 9/10 with df+c, fr st c, or rising tackle depending on your positioning. Only time you really don't have a shot at AAing her is if you are chucking fireballs at mid screen when is honestly the last thing you should really be doing in a match up with a character who's hop/jump has as much range and speed as hers does she can literally jump in and punish you from 3/4 the screen so be aware doing that puts you in the danger zone not to mention with 1 bar she can just go through it and bop you into the air for a combo. Only start throwing projectiles in that range once you have established air to air superiority and ground to air superiority because that way you can ensure she stays on her toes. Another reason not to chuck plasma is because it gives her meter and does nothing for you unless she blocks it which at 3/4 screen or mid range she has no reason to because she can qcf+A or qcf+C it.
Also going air to air with Liz isn't a bad idea at all considering the most threatening option she has in case of a trade a super which does little to no damage but simply gives her mix up positioning something terry doesn't worry about as much as everyone else if he has a bar since ex tackle is 4 frames and hits on both sides. So if she tries any cross up shenanigans you can hit her out free and reset the situation. I advocate going air to air with Liz because of the awkward angle of her better jump normals and the lack of range on her light ones. Terry's jump b is no Iori jump b, but the range and the 4 frame start up not to mention the horizontal hitbox ensures her jump cd and jump d won't be hitting you since they go down at a weird angle and don't stick out 100% horizontally.
Lastly, once you start checking the Liz player and keeping her on the ground do everything rei said keep her in check via normal superiority. Don't not use crack shots, but just space them appropriately so you don't get command grab punished if they block them standing. St b is your friend and main form of frame advantage great way to end strings so you can keep your pressure going. Don't be afraid to the ex power waves at hops or even when you have them in a block string. Make her burn that meter, take the mix up, or lose a hell of a lot of guard bar it's that player's choice. One way to tell how good a person is at fighting terry is throw and ex power wave and see if they gaurd cancel blow back you or gc roll you. If they roll you they are knowledgeable about this situation. If they blow back you exploit the hell out of it by running up and just blocking it or jumping and crossing them up with a jump d as they attempt the blow back. Reason being is gc blow backs are unsafe on block and even worse on whiff. If they do it destroy that persons very soul until there is nothing left and I mean nothing!
Another good thing you can do is play the player not just the character. At that person's good and bad habits then counter and take advantage of those. Don't put too much focus on the character match up that you forget there is still a person behind the controller using them.
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Hey everyone, are Crackshoot frametraps a good idea? I don't see many Terry's go for them outside of Japan and when I try them I just get blown up, are they something to really focus on when practicing Terry?
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NB: I'm not a Terry player but that's how I understand his gamestyle. Some people may argue with my advices.
The thing is, if your crackshoot D is blocked high, you're -1.
That means against a 1 frame throw you're doomed, hopefully if you do it after a few light you can't be normal thrown except in the corner (and even here it might not work). But you better forget it against 1f grapplers.
Then if your opponent doesn't have a 3 frame move you can try to do your s.C afterward (since you're -1, you're supposed to trade at worste and if it hits well free combo, if it's guarded free pressure!). And once he is used too it you start doing slower moves such as d.B or throws, consider jumps if he tries to mash lows to bait the throw (If you just do s.C he guards high and you will never open his guard).
If he does have a 3f you have to make him fear the rising tackle, so the first time you do your crackshoot, throw a good rising tackle afterward (Because he's gonna mash his 3f to gain the advantage). Well if you get punished it's your fault for not being good at mind games :D (Do not abuse of it obly, if you could get killed by the punition you might want to stick to a safe gameplan, you're at a disadvantage afterall).
But you have to take this risk from times to times to be respected. After that you can start to throw your s.C, and get back to the previous gameplan, with rising tackles when your opponent gets a bit moving.
From afar some 3f might come out in their far version netting you a free combo since Terry s.C has a lot of range and the first frame of their s.C will make them closer making you sure your s.C comes out in his close form. I do know I got trapped with my Kyo like that some times. You might want to work on specific setups for that.
If the crackshoot is blocked low it's free cookies and pressure since you're +2.
Never forget that Terry main opening is guard crush. He does a ton of it, and the ex fireball does really help. So if your frametraps are blocked, it means that if you make him guard the next one you will surely crush his guard. So you should consider to wait and see their reaction, because most player will panick and do a DP, a roll or a jump, either way you can punish them and start to repress with their guard gauge half empty.
Here i'm assuming that the s.B hits low, and you can't be normal thrown after d.B,d.A,qcb.D guarded high (Doesn't have the game at hand right now, so I would be glad if you could confirm it :D).
Another way to mix is to do d.B,d.A (you can delay quite a lot to let you the time to confirm) d.C if it does hit, and then mix a little with either canceling the d.A into crackshoot, or doing s.B, crackshoot (d.B,d.A,s.B,qcb.D), if they get up for blocking the crackshoot high after d.A they take the risk to eat the s.B. Once they wait the crackshoot after d.A or s.B, just do d.B throw.
There is (should be, not sure again) a hole between d.A and crackshoot D, but if your opponent mash a dp between and you do s.B it's gonna hit, because it's a blockstring and he needs to stand up for buffering the motion.
However there is nothing preventing them to do a reversal between s.B and your crackshoot, so be careful.
Again if they stand up after s.B for guarding the crackshoot you can throw a sweep.
BTW you can do frametraps after lows or d.As, but it's not under the scope of your question :D
Either way you have to mix things, and try to predict your opponent next reaction.
Any critic or comment is appreciated. Especially from experienced terry players.
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I think something to note is the fact that we've not (in good form) defined where it's safe to use crackshoot without any repercussions possible. This is a good piece so far, but maybe setting up frame traps which can end with B crackshoot spaced so far that it can't be punished would be helpful.
Another thing to note, against experienced players who've had experience against Terry, they will hold forward or back (heavy button). They can punish you for doing that if you're trying to do rising tackle, if you're trying to jump, or press a button afterwards. You can tech the normal throw, but it's much easier for the defensive player to take away your options after the crackshoot by playing the throw option.
I've been toying with how would be the optimal response to continue our pressure, but avoid the throw option taking away our mix-up opportunities. However, it always seems to be the same. That's the one big weakness there.
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Yeah but you're too far after some normals to be normal thrown, aren't you?
Basically the mind game is if you can be thrown, for the defending player to throw and when he knows you're going to tech just do is 3f and score a full combo. And this mindgame is totally at Terry's disadvantage.
That's why you have to set up your crackshoot to always be too far for being (normal) thrown.
If you want to test your setups use Chin, he has the maximum throw range in the game.
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That's what I meant.
There's no list of safe spacing for it. If you have that, you can go from there.
For B crackshoot, you have d.B, st.B, st.CD, B Crackshoot. I also would say point blank, you have d.B, st.B, df+C, B Crackshoot, but that's a bit closer than st.CD. It's a frame trap in one as st.B links with df+C, making it a pretty tight frame trap anyway. You can hit confirm the df+C if they try to poke.
So, you're close enough for most 1F command grabs if you do d.B, st.B, df+C. If you notice that d.B, st.B is blocked, a fast enough frame trap is d.A, d.C. That actually is really good and spaces your follow up crackshoot enough so you can't be punished.
So don't do: d.B, st.B, df+C, qcb+B on block (Can be thrown or command grabbed)
Do: d.B, st.B, d.A, d.C, qcb+B on block (Can't be thrown or command grabbed, good spacing for st.B, st.C, sweep, etc)
OR
1. d.B, d.B, d.A, d.C, qcb+B
2. d.B, st.B, st.CD, qcb+B
3. d.B, d.A, (delay), d.B, st.B, qcb+B
Notes:
These setups place you in a distance where you cannot be easily punished or punished at all by characters with command grabs, normal throws, and fast normals, utilizing qcb+(K) (Crackshoot) to the best of its ability.
All of these can be substituted for qcb+D.
If qcb+D is done, Terry is susceptible to normal throwing (f+(Heavy) only). Prepare to tech.
-Great spacing for baiting people into punishing with back throw or command grabs or for people scared to respond.
-When in doubt, Rising tackle out. Beats most responses with its invulnerability
All qcb+B setups are unthrowable setups.
If blocked standing w/ qcb+B, Terry is at -2. His fastest response from that range is d.B (4F). Meaning you will lose to anything 6F or faster.
-Good against grapplers or characters who have slow normals or reliant on far reaching heavy normals
-Will trade or lose with people mashing crouching light normals 4F or faster, DP if this becomes their response.
- d.A (at max range), d.C and d.B, st.B are possible afterwards for combo potential.
-Far spacing makes DPs risky.
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It sounds like the risk-reward isn't particularly in Terry's favor though the guard break potential sounds like it could be worth it.
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It sounds like the risk-reward isn't particularly in Terry's favor though the guard break potential sounds like it could be worth it.
Oh, if you manage to keep on someone and force them to sit still, you're going to crush them easy. Not many people can do that.
I took the liberty of making a few blockstrings you could use to do the crackshoot pressure. You can do them with D Crackshoot, but B is harder to react to as its in a block string. It's -1 all the time, but it's still the surprise factor.
@Sharnt: st.B does not hit low and d.B, d.A does put you pretty close, but if you look at my post, the blockstrings I put up get you in a close enough distance to keep attacking without being thrown.
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Hu? Why bother using crackshoot B?
According to the frame data it is -2 if guarded high, and 0 if guarded low. Crackshoot D is -1/+2.
If the crackshoot D lands on a crouching opponent you can combo afterward, you're + if guarded low, you're safer on block high, enabling you to restart the pressing if your opponent doesn't have a 3f. Why would you ever want to use the B version?
If you rely on the reaction time you're doing it wrong imo.
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Hu? Why bother using crackshoot B?
According to the frame data it is -2 if guarded high, and 0 if guarded low. Crackshoot D is -1/+2.
If the crackshoot D lands on a crouching opponent you can combo afterward, you're + if guarded low, you're safer on block high, enabling you to restart the pressing if your opponent doesn't have a 3f. Why would you ever want to use the B version?
If you rely on the reaction time you're doing it wrong imo.
Because people can interrupt you in between Crackshoot D and any normal. B crackshoot is an actual blockstring. You have to guard cancel roll out. Crackshoot D is not a true blockstring. If someone notices the gap, they can poke you out of it with fast enough normals, DP, super, anything in between your normal and crackshoot.
I would use B to keep them honest. If you're trying to guard crush, it's just as good. If they start to respect your pressure more, you can try getting away with D crackshoot to guarantee yourself some advantage.
With the setups I've posted, if they block low, you are right in front of them. If they block high, there's some extra push back so they can't hit you.
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Yeah that's what I said in my first post about it not being a true blockstring :
Another way to mix is to do d.B,d.A (you can delay quite a lot to let you the time to confirm) d.C if it does hit, and then mix a little with either canceling the d.A into crackshoot, or doing s.B, crackshoot (d.B,d.A,s.B,qcb.D), if they get up for blocking the crackshoot high after d.A they take the risk to eat the s.B. Once they wait the crackshoot after d.A or s.B, just do d.B throw.
There is (should be, not sure again) a hole between d.A and crackshoot D, but if your opponent mash a dp between and you do s.B it's gonna hit, because it's a blockstring and he needs to stand up for buffering the motion.
However there is nothing preventing them to do a reversal between s.B and your crackshoot, so be careful.
Again if they stand up after s.B for guarding the crackshoot you can throw a sweep.
But yeah your pressings are an other way to mix things.
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What's nice about doing B crackshoot is the range is perfect to do it again. You can kind of mix up what you want to do from there and do crackshoot again from a perfectly safe distance. d.A and st.B both are within range so you can do d.A, d.C to test if they press buttons (Unless it's a light normal, d.A is usually faster) they'll get hit for a hitconfirmable combo. If not, crackshoot again and you can easily keep doing d.A, d.C from the same range.
Mix up your response a little with st.CD, st.B, or go for a hop to switch it up.
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But if you do d.A,d.C, he doesn't have to guard low, if the crackshoot B ends in guard you lose all your momentum, or worste you get punished (It's either -2 or 0, in all situations you lose the advantage).
Where it's a lot harder to punish the -1 D crackshoot, and even if your opponent guard you can take the risk to push buttons because you have a 3f with your s.C. At -2 even someone without a 3f, or who miss the timing a little with his 3f will have a free combo, even worse if you try to do d.A again.
And the big problem is, even if he guards the crackshoot crouched you're at 0, you don't have the slightiest advantage, if you try to do a d.A you will likely do a double hit with your opponent at best because everyone has a 4f move. And you will eat a combo if they have a 3f.
What do you have to keep them from pressing buttons in this situation? B crackshoot eats lows, but if they mash a standing 3f? It might work against characters without 3f, but if you never do a s.C to make them fear the frame trap, it's useless. That's why you need the D crackshoot frame advantage to keep your pressure, and so to make them fear to stand up.
PS: I checked, Terry's d.A is 5f, it's even worse :c
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You're not losing momentum by being at 0F or -2. From the distance you're at, there's very few people who can combo you if any without a super cancellable far normal.
If you finish off with qcb+B, you're at the max range of d.A. d.A is ~5F. At 0F, someone would have to do a normal 5F or faster to hit you or trade. There are no 3F light normals that are combo-able from the distance qcb+B places you at. It whiffs completely (Takuma's d.B). EDIT: The only character so far that has a normal that can combo into after blocking qcb+B is Kim with st.B, but that only happens if he blocks standing and he can only combo into ff+A. If d.B is the normal you do, st.B from Kim trades with your d.B resulting in no combo.
All far-standing normals, CD or the like, come out at approximately 5F or slower. There's no 4F far standing normal as far as I know. Any standing normal that has lower body invulnerability is stuffed out by d.A, that includes Kim's far st.D, Kyo's far st.D, Athena's far st.D, Saiki's far st.D, Benimaru's far st.D, and a number of other people's st.CDs.
So, my point is that even if they don't guard low, they either trade or get beat. You don't lose anything in a trade except returning to neutral.
It's a viable strategy for applying pressure to people, especially if they make a mistake. You are right, at most, there's a -2 window. By doing your fastest response, d.B into st.B, you are still responding in 6F when someone's normal might be active by then. 7F if you use d.A. That's an acceptable risk considering the consequences are light and the awards for a successful hit/block are decent.
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Takuma's 3f is d.A
A lot of far A are 4f.
I don't have the game at hand right now so I can't test stuff.
But I do think that most 4f d.A/B will beat you cleanly, even if they should whiff because you are trying to hit will expand your hurtbox and make you vulnerable. After that comboing is too character specific to be discussed here.
If you react with d.B you expose yourself to low invulnerable move, in both case if they guard the crackshoot B high and you try to push a button while crouching they should have a free jump in.
And be back at neutral is the definition of losing momentum ...
The only character so far that has a normal that can combo into after blocking qcb+B is Kim with st.B, but that only happens if he blocks standing and he can only combo into ff+A. If d.B is the normal you do, st.B from Kim trades with your d.B resulting in no combo.
You mean that if Kim does d.B after guarding your crackshoot B high on this setup and you try to mash your d.A/B his d.B loses? Or whiff?
I'm really dubious but if that's the case you're right
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I don't really want to argue. I'm testing it in real time so I feel pretty good with how I feel things are testing. All I can say to everyone reading this is to try it out and see how it fits for you. It's not perfect, but it gives you the opportunity to make adjustments for people adjusting to you.
So, it's a tactic that's useable rather than a gimmick. With that, I'm pretty done with the conversation on crack shoot pressure unless there's something new to be said.
EDIT: Edited my first post (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=2124.msg67829#msg67829) with all the setups I've got so far and what I've tested all summarized in the notes section:
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I don't see anything to add without me testing this stuff, it'll wait a few days.
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Hello everyone, here's another match-up analysis. This is a pretty hard match so there's not much to say. I'll try something new and talk from the states of combat which are neutral, offensive, and defensive.
Sum-up: Terry is pretty okay in neutral and does well with offensive, but he crumbles to EX Iori's offensive pressure.
Terry vs. EX Iori
Neutral state: When both characters are not knocked down, being hit, or blocking
Terry vs. EX Iori goes pretty evenly in the neutral game. Both characters have a long enough range where they can poke pretty well. EX Iori does not have very far reaching or forward moving moves other than his Aoi hana, his rekka move, and his DP. EX Iori has a list of tools in neutral to keep people out and to play offensively and defensively. Ex Iori has a ground fireball, a 3 frame close C, far reaching normals, and a very oppressive air game. His recovery after a fireball is not so fast so at neutral, but the fireballs move very fast. His C fireball is one of the fastest moving fireballs in the game. However, he's quite punishable.
As Terry, you can play from mid range. Your job at neutral is to score a knockdown, soft or heavy. You'll want to continue to poke at max range to test him with st.B, st.C, sweep, or st. CD. Your st.CD will be very crucial as you can whiff cancel it on hit or block. Spacing is very important. You can't abuse your crackshoot pressure if he blocks high, he gets a full combo from st.C. Spacing out burn knuckle and crackshoot so he's too far to punish with st.C is going to be important. He still has good tools to keep you out so don't get offensive right after any of these. Keep pressuring him till you can corner him or force him into a habit of blocking low with mix ups of sweeps. You also want to keep him from starting his offensive pressure. Letting him jump in to start offensive pressure is bad. In hop range, depend on st.A and df+C to keep him out. Be ready for counter hit to follow up with a special tack-on. Stay in the middle of the map, but don't be afraid to step into his range for low pressure. You want him to block low so when you set up your offensive pressure, he's conditioned to go low.
For this, poking with d.B into d.A to see how reacts is good choice of judgement at close range. However, don't get comfortable. He's got an assortment of reversals if you're too aggressive or too lazy with your approach into offense.
Good conditioning is important with any match-up, but it's very important here. Once you've conditioned him with either blocking low or forgetting to block low, you can add in sweeps or EX Crackshoot to score that knockdown. Then offense begins. You can use EX Power Wave as well to forge your way inside and force him to block, but remember that he has VERY oppressive air normals and he's very fast. Reliance on EX Power wave won't be too good here unless you're going for an offensive guard break.
Defense: Where you are knocked down or blocking an opponent's attack
On defense, Terry is very defenseless. If you're successful in defensive anti-airing, that's good, but if Ex Iori gets in close, he's very dominant. This is more so apparent in the corner. If you do not feel like reading the rest of my explanation, I simply say the following: Do not let him corner you and keep your distance.
For those that want to stick around for the long haul, Terry has only one reversal. Rising tackle is a surprisingly simple reversal and helps with a lot of situations. However, the safe jump pressure from EX Iori is strong. Most of his combos end in hard knockdown so if you have been knocked down, teching it won't help. This gives him ample amount of time to attack you from the air with very tricky cross-ups and meaty pressure. He can also bait a lot of reversals with his quick air command normal. Doing a backdash to back+B allows him to move really far away really fast. This adds to his pressure by covering a good amount of distance after a blockstring and adds a new dimension he can do to force bad mistakes.
While being pressured, a common frame trap almost all levels of EX Iori use is his Aoi Hana, his rekka. On block, you can do far C to punish him from any distance. He can try to cancel the active frames, but it will always punish. The timing for this punish is tight so with meter, you can do any version of Buster Wolf (qcfx2+K) to punish it.
That being said, normal pressure is more commonly used by more advanced players. After performing a blockstring, they will run forward and continue to advance poking with normals. He has a standing low in close st.B and he normal combos st.A into far st.B so he has very good frame traps. In between aggressive attacks, you can hold down back and do d.A to keep his pressue at bay. This will poke him out of Aoi hana if he decides to approach with it or stop run-ins after pressure. Be prepared for the trade or push back with your own offense cautiously.
EX Iori has a command grab, Scum Gale. It's very slow, but if you're too concerned with blocking, he can open you up and score a knockdown off of it. On knockdowns, consider backdashing on wake up to avoid mixups like this that will crack you open.
On that note, fairly advanced EX Iori players can crack people open with relatively early j.C and j.D normals. They combo well with cl.C because of it being 3F so early jump-ins are very good for him. These tactics are better in the corner where pushback is minimal from blocked normals. This allows for a high, low, and command grab mix-up pressure that can test the patience of even the most seasoned of players. It's very important to NOT get cornered by EX Iori. His job is made much easier if you're cornered by increased damage on hit as well as hard to predict attack strategies. Rather than blow meter on a reversal, look for an opportunity to guard cancel roll past any far heavy normals to get out or start your own offense. Look for patterns. If the Iori likes to do a fireball after a certain attack string, guard cancel roll for a full combo. If they like to grab at a certain moment, back dash or hop up to punish them if they whiff. You can also alternate guard (toggling back and down back on the stick) to avoid the grab mix up.
Offensive: When you are pressuring an opponent that is blocking, not blocking, or has been knocked down.
Terry has a fairly good time approaching from the ground using d.B, d.A into d.C for the full confirm. If blocked, alternating between your normals like (d.A, d.B, st.B), (d.A, st.C), (st.A, throw), or (st.B, st.CD, cancel into a safe special) to keep them guessing what you might do. Don't get too predictable. EX Iori has two reversals at his disposal. His EX Oniyaki, his dragon punch, moves forward 3 times and also can be drive canceled into a knockdown combo. Bait this out whenever possible with constant normal pressure and taking time to see the reaction. If you notice the opponent starting to twitch or stand, it's a sign he's ready to retaliate.
He also can use scum gale for run-in attacks. EX Scum gale in particular is invincible for a very long time so it means using safe jumps against him become difficult if an opponent uses that against you. Stick to hops and cross ups after conditioning to see what will make them crack, but avoid full jump ins. If you have him knocked down by EX Crackshoot, you can do a confusing roll set up instead of a safe jump to make him wary of which side you're on. He might revert back to using st.C on defense rather than confidently using specials to keep you out. This is not bad as a roll setup allows you to do a meaty. If he guesses wrong on scum gale or oniyaki, he'll mess up the input and you'll stuff him out of whatever he chooses to do. Just make sure he guesses wrong!
As always, test it out first. If he does scum gale a lot during your safe jumps, switch up to rolling. If he's pretty good at predicting your rolls, switch to safe jumping or fake him out by backdashing to make him react. Above all else, don't take chances. You need to keep pressure up.
A good thing for Terry is that Oniyaki goes forward before going straight up. This means you can super jump over the DP pre-emptively if you're baiting it as well. If he doesn't, you have only reset the situation and have placed yourself at neutral.
In offense, you also have the option to guard crush him. Terry can lead in with this by constantly barraging his opponent with normals like st.B, d.B, and st.CD into fairly spaced crackshoot or use EX Powerwave to get in. EX Iori, again, has very good defensive options and fast normals. Any gaps can be broken out of by st.C, the key to guard crush pressure against EX Iori is breaking it up into pieces. You want to do enough guard bar damage to get him to about 60-70% of his guard gauge. Once it's down, you reset the situation. Stop attacking and wait to see if he goes for the gap with a reversal. His guard gauge will recover a little, but not fully if you get back to pressuring him. At worst, you're in neutral and you're both fairly even at neutral. Once you've pecked him away to about 50% of his guard bar, you can go hail mary and insert a guard crush blockstring to open him up.
An example:
j.C, sweep, df+C, qcb+D, st.C, df+C, qcf+AC
or
j.C, st.D, df+C, qcf+AC, hyper hop j.C, d.B, d.A, d.C
This works only because the opponent is conditioned to block after a combo. You have to condition them not to guard cancel roll, blow back, or dp in between the qcb+D and qcf+AC or it will fail.
Keep in mind, st.D, (df+C) or special and d.A, d.C chain are great tools for pressure because they can be delayed and create psuedo frame traps. Take a look at Crimson415's videos on delayed normals to get a good feel of how to use these in situations. You can take advantage of these situations to encourage blocking as well or discourage blocking when you'd like them to press buttons.
Summary: EX Iori is a very tough match up. Although I've tried to paint a positive light for Terry, it's not a very good match up. His mobility, damage output, and pressure make his offense very difficult. As well, with an even neutral footing, you have an equal chance of being put into a defensive position with Terry. This complicates things with meter as Iori can, from anywhere, do a 100% with enough meter or complete an infinite combo. On the same grade as Shen, you do not want to give EX Iori a clean hit. If played with caution and considerable knowledge about the player's habits and tendencies, you can make this match up work for you.
Thanks for reading!
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@Reiki nice sharing, i have a difficulty too when vs both iori using terry.
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Thanks, it's a cumulative essay from my experiences and everyone else's in the KOF Tournament Players FB group.
Terry is by far a struggling character for a number of reasons, which is why he's not picked highly around the world in tournaments. He has too many different options for one approach. Where as Iori can kind of no-brainer his way through a match up, you have to really understand the game to make Terry work for you.
He's iconic and picked as a fan favorite, but many competitive players like Reynald will tell you there are way better characters that don't require as much effort. He's harder to win with. That's reality. We're still here with Terry because we don't care.
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Okay, so now I'm going to begin my analysis of the match up vs. Mr. Karate. Like before, I'll write in the 3 following stages: Neutral, Offense, and Defense.
Sum-up: Terry does not exactly struggle, but he is at a disadvantage in neutral and severely at disadvantage on the defense. Don't let Mr. Karate get a solid hit off anything.
Terry vs. Mr. Karate
Neutral state: When both characters are not knocked down, being hit, or blocking
Far range:
The objective against Mr. Karate is to avoid, not block, any of his advances. On the other side of the screen, he's not very frightening. He lacks a full screen fireball like his counterpart so keep away and hit-and-run by fireballs is not his fortee. However, he will use his counter to get in. This allows him to block stray power waves to get into close or mid-range. You don't want that. Be wary of throwing fireballs at Mr. Karate haphazardly. Set yourself up to recover before he blocks it or don't rely on full screen fireballs in general.
Mid range: Air and ground
Mr. Karate thrives in mid-range. His light fireball has a constant hitbox upon activation making it an instant attack upon active frames. Think of it as a large wall of damage. The length of this fireball is about 3 character lengths and you can hop over it. It's common to use the light fireball as a keep out tool in mid range. Pick your moments and soar over the fireball's active frames to give yourself the win. Unless you have meter, there's no benefit in blocking it. You don't want to be put in the defense against Mr. Karate. The C version is much slower, has a command dash. If he dashes in, you can punish him with st.C clean. The timing can be practiced, but you should not give him the luxury. If you have meter, any version of buster wolf cleanly punishes him for this tactic.
At mid-range, you will not have to deal very much with forward moving normals as much as his hop pressure. His low arc, but small body allows him to easily cross up standing opponents. This is especially true because Mr. Karate will use his j.CD which has a hitbox in front and beneath him to keep you pinned and respect his advances. On jumps, you can pre-emptively jump up and keep him out with an assortment of normals, primarily j.B, j.CD, and j.C. You can rising tackle to keep him from getting in or stick to df+C. Keep in mind you run the risk of trading unless you do rising tackle because of its faster startup than most j.CDs, long active frames, and big hitbox. Trades aren't bad, but they're not in your favor. If they hop, st.A and df+C are your best bet. However, you're going to trade a lot of the time if Mr. Karate does j.CD. He'll likely do j.CD to get in or start pressure. Here, you can control the spacing by back dashing and hitting an anti-air normal or jump higher than him and land on top of him. You want to avoid blocking it because it puts him in close range.
His 3F st.C or cr.A gives him access to a full combo off of higher jump-ins so it's best to be wary. Mid range also gives him the max distance to do his Air Hien (His flying kick). The heavy version dives down for a double-kick while the first one flies at you forward. None of these are safe, but the D version is a decent poking tool if spaced properly. Early anti-airs can be baited and attacked using this move which combos into the EX version of it for a full combo. It's important to be hasty, but not too hasty with your anti-air. If successfully placed on the ground, his options are limited, but not gone. His EX grab allows him to teleport in and grab you. This is dangerous, but simply backdashing when he disappears gives you a free full combo because it makes the grab whiff and he appears in front of you. To avoid his ridiculous combo potential, it's good to play keep away. Roll to get away from cross ups or block accordingly in mid-range. Do not get cornered by him. Stay in mid-range and avoid a close up fight, which we will talk about now.
Close range:
Mr. Karate has a very strong close-up game. Using his running command grab from about a character length away is hard to see. If you're too defensive, he'll nail you with anything. Mr. Karate can combo off of anything, which makes him dangerous. Where you could be vying for offensive pressure, one poorly timed attack can lead into full combo.
Almost all of Mr. Karate's normals are stubby so unless you're in the corner or blocking a jump-in, you won't see any ground normals from him. He has a decent sweep which is free-cancelable into his fireball. Keep in mind his light fireball is -3F. Even up close, you won't be able to punish it as Terry due to not having a 3F response. At close range, you can use meter to guard cancel roll before the fireball strikes. It's 10F start up so you can respond to it before it hits you. This is very difficult to do, but paying attention to your opponent's patterns and behaviors will give you that opportunity. He has a 3F st.C and a 3F cr.A, both of which are very good close range. He can use these in tandem as pokes, especially cr.A because it's +2 on block. Close up, his poking will almost certainly give him a way in from being at advantage. Don't give him the opportunity. If you're in close range, block. When he's finished, give him some space. Do not engage unless he's done something unsafe or predictable. I cannot stress this enough: Read and learn your opponent or you will die.
Close up, he also can hop over most standing opponents. Be wary of cross ups as they can sometimes look ambiguous. If you aren't confident in a normal, roll forward to gain distance or block.
Defense: When you are knocked down or blocking an opponent's attack
Now, if you're on defense, this is inherently bad. Mr. Karate has very positive buttons so his frame traps are fairly solid. Save for a Rising Tackle, you're not going to out poke him which is why letting him put you in a defensive position is very bad. Most of the time, his offensive pressure will end mid-screen after a few normals because his normals are incredibly stubby. The shift is when they stop pressuring you. If a Mr. Karate player stops mid blockstring and attacks erratically, they've understood the character enough not to let you get comfortable. Most often than not, a seasoned Mr. Karate player will bully you into the corner with varying array of hops and normals. They will rarely use specials because at midscreen, this effectively ends their assault. If they have used a special, you can back up and reset the situation back to neutral. He does not have any overheads, but his running grab will be a problem if you continue to block. If they use a special in a predictable way, you can use this to your advantage and guard cancel roll before it comes out. Even if they use predictable command normals, you can guard cancel roll through those as well. f+B, for example, is 18F start up and -7 on block. It's not whiff cancelable. It's commonly done after st.C as well. If someone does st.C, they're probably going to do f+B. Guard cancel roll on the st.C to gain yourself the advantage and put them on defense. You have to be quick to gain a hit as it puts you far away, but without fear of a throw punish and invulnerability till you're out of a GC roll, it's very good to turn the tables.
He has very good safe-jumps. Being knocked down is very dangerous as his ambiguous jump ins and constant pressure are very hard to deal with. Tech rolling is often advised, but should not be abused as it backs you right into the corner.
The corner is the absolute worst place to be. Even though specials will end his pressure, he's fairly safe after them and fast enough to keep you pinned in the corner if you jump or roll out. Your only safe option is knocking him down or poking out of pressure. Needless to say, this is difficult and a seasoned player will crack you eventually. Do not get in this situation. Avoid the corner. Find any safe route out of the corner. If you are in the corner, be patient. You need to find patterns you can use to predict when to get out. Stay solid and pick your opportunities wisely so you can get out. If you have meter, you can still GC roll, but resetting the situation with a counter or GCCD will work too. If they try to jump, anti-airing with a rising tackle will not always work. They can ride the wall down and avoid a poorly timed rising tackle, giving them a free open. If they try to full jump on you in the corner, instead block and get yourself out of the corner. If they keep hopping at you with j.CDs, keep in mind that you can block j.CDs crouching. Early j.CDs can be stuffed with d.B as well. Failed attempts at command grabs will get you out of the corner. Just stay strong and patient, they will start to get creative and that will be their undoing.
Remember, your defense has to be solid. Mr. Karate can take 60% of your life with a net total of one bar and one drive. He is incredibly dangerous, tricky, and brutal. He also gets even more dangerous in the corner. Stay solid and patient if you're in the corner or Terry is good as dead.
Offensive: When you are pressuring an opponent that is blocking, not blocking, or has been knocked down.
Short of an HD combo, you will need at least 3 power bars and 1 drive bar to kill Mr. Karate. That means when you get in, you have to set up an opportunity to get in again. Against top-tier characters, do not give them any quarter.
Capitalizing on stray hits will help out dearly. Getting counter hits or hits with far st.C, crackshoot, or counter hit df+C will lead into combos. Some without any real need for drive meter. Use any oppportunity to the full extent to whittle away at Mr. Karate's life. EX Power Geyser does the most damage as a combo ender, but it will not easily present you with frame advantage. Ending a combo with Buster Wolf will give you enough advantage to safe jump a tech roll which is a plenty of advantage.
Cross ups are advised from a position of advantage. On knockdown, Mr. Karate is fairly limited. However, from start to finish, his light DP is invincible and is four frames. It also combos into an almost 50% attack. That's a lot for a mistake. Don't give him that opportunity. Set up safe jumps and make sure they're air tight. If you're going to cross up, make sure it's after a knockdown and not at neutral. Don't be predictable with your approach. Give yourself some lee-way to keep the pressure on. Use your light normals to continue to bully him, but keep in mind that he has fast close normals. Approach closely at your own peril. His normals are still stubby though and his d.C isn't that great for anti-air. It's not like Takuma where you can jump in whenever you like save for his Ryuko Ranbu, but you can pressure him a bit from close range and jump periodically when they try to counter poke or guess wrong.
You have to respect his space, but once you're in, do not let him go. Mix in tick throws to increase the amount of hard knockdown situations. You can use some meter to do EX crackshoot to set up safe jumps or ambiguous roll set ups to get in. If you prefer to stay on the ground, you can continue to use st.B and properly spaced crackshoot, power wave, to keep the pressure on. Bait out guard cancel rolls and moments to escape. Delay your blockstrings and mix them in with running forward to confuse the opponent on whether you'll commit to the block string for a few more normals or if you'll stop and advance again.
As mentioned before, be wary about keeping up the pressure. A counter poke is possible with his 3F normals and his DP is still invulnerable.
Summary: Whether you're playing against him in any position on the team, Mr. Karate is a problem. You will have to exercise every opportunity you can afford to make sure that he dies. On neutral, your best bet is to not give him clean hits like back dashing on wake up or avoiding jumps by jumping away or up. Defense is best fought in the mid ground. The corner is a difficult place to fall back from. Mr. Karate can be defensive as well so exercise caution while fighting him. Once in, do not let go of pressure. Give them the room to make their own mistakes, but do not be overzealous. You'll have your time. You have the tools to fight him. Know what to look for and always read your opponent's patterns.
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I will have a seperation write up but I have to completely disagree terry has no issues vs karate in neutral in fact he does better than karate because he controls more of the screen than he does.
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How do I fight Yuri with Terry? She's like a Predator drone.
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You brought up a good question so I posed it to the FB group who have been pooling their ideas on matchups together. Yuri will be covered next.
Should have plenty on that topic by the end of the week.
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Okay, we're back. Not much data has been provided by anyone so I'm going to draw from my match-up knowledge of Yuri. I'd appreciate any critique. I'll do my best.
Sum-up: Yuri has the tools necessary to cause Terry a lot of problems. Her offense is superb when she's in close, and she has excellent neutral. However, like Mr. Karate and Ryo to a degree, she can't do anything from a distance, stubby normals, and has limited meterless defensive options.
Terry vs. Yuri
Neutral state: When both characters are not knocked down, being hit, or blocking
Far range:
Yuri's options from far away are not amazing. Although she has a bit more reach with her EX air fireball and she can grasp people out of the air with her EX running grab, they're all fairly defensive measures. Throwing A power wave from this distance is advised to test the reactions of your opponent. From this distance, you could safely build meter with B crackshoot. Staying at this range is good for reseting the momentum because Yuri's offensive options are not very strong here. She can keep fireballs and air pokes off of her as well with A Saiha.
It is advised not to pursue her from this range in the air. Without meter, Yuri has access to an air grab and great horizontal reach with her air normals. This will make approaching her from the air increasingly difficult. However, she has to pick her normals properly or they might be too horizontal. They also have low active frames so early jump-ins can be met with d.B anti-air because of landing recovery or knock her out of the air with crackshoot, df+C, st.D (far at this range), and st.A. Punish accordingly.
Mid-range: Air and ground
Yuri has a two projectiles that can keep people at bay. Her light and heavy Kou-o-ken are slow start up, but they're very wide and tall. Blocking them pushes you back quite a bit. This is especially true of the C version. If given the opportunity, roll through the fireball. Lead off with low B to be safe after the roll and you'll be in her face. Most of her fireballs will not combo unless she hits you with close st.C or cr.C. Be ready to roll when you can. On the ground, she can poke you out with her st.B or use d.B. Her far st.D is actually 0 on block. It's advised at that range to just get back and give her some space to try again. Pressing her will get you into close range at neutral, and that's not going to be in your favor.
At this range, utilizing your far normals to keep her from gaining momentum or continuing to press her with st.B is good. Your st.CD is also useful here as it can cancel on block or whiff, giving her fairly limited time to respond to whatever you throw out. On block, it can also put light crackshoot at a range that's safe from her 1F command grab. Against more seasoned opponents, they will not give you the opportunity to get away with a D crackshoot randomly. Do not give them the opportunity to grab you or put yourself in close range on defense.
Although most of her normals will not reach you unless she's in close range, she is within hop range. Her hop normals reach fairly far. Whether her aim is to poke you or get in a solid hit, she can accomplish both with her st.D. Don't give her the option. Keep her out of the air with your df+C or st.A to keep her from giving you too much grief. A counter hid df+C will net you decent damage, don't forget to follow up when you see it with crackshoot or burn knuckle. Her command dive kick does not hit overhead, but it is still something to be wary of as it can cross up opponents and it's fairly safe on block. Yuri can cross you up from this range and also has that option with her flip attack. With meter, she can keep her opponent out or force her way in. At mid range, she can hop and do air Raiouken, her air fireball. Unlike her command fireball that throws her into the air and covers some space, this fireball is done as an air special and is safe on block. If you don't poke her out of the air before she does this, she's going to keep you in close range. It's often rare, but quite possible, opponents might use Yuri's flip, houyoku, on you. For most situations, jumping straight up as a response to this will net you the ability to counter attack, however, that opens you up for the air grab. Don't be predictable. Roll once or twice to get the distance and maintain neutral spacing.
With meter, she has a number of options to squeeze her way in. She can make use of her EX demon flip to gain in the distance, which gives her options to do her EX fireball in the air. On the subject of that, her EX fireball is constantly
Close range: Air and ground
Here is where Yuri's normals play a very large role. Yuri has a number of normals which are increasingly frightening the closer she is. Her d.B is +3 on block. She could delay most any normal after it and continue to pressure quite consistently while also beating out much else. It's a very low risk tool for her. We also have her cr.C. With enough hit stun, she can keep you out and keep you boxed in. Her st.CD also can cancel into her demon flip. Her st.B is also a wonderful hop poke that can translate into air throw while also being -1 on block. Needless to say, these normals are problematic. With a command grab that can take advantage of frame traps and an air throw that can take advantage of jumpy people, being in close range is not good.
The mid ground is also not a safe haven as it opens you up for cross ups. Yuri's dive kick follow up from her demon flip and her dive kick are relatively safe. Blocking them will just continue the pressure. Not blocking will lead into a substantial amount of damage or more resets. She can perform this off of a poke string as well. Since it has you blocking low, she can mix up a lot of command grab tick throw attempts or sweep you into her fireball. It's a rough ride. My only bit of advice is only block when it is beneficial or the only option. Players will learn your habits and accordingly keep you pinned down. Advanced players will have tricks to make use of being in close range.
If you are close and they might make the play to keep pressure, back dash away. Even in gaps, the worst that can happen are resets. You avoid mix ups from the command grab or the air mix up from the demon flip. Make use of this sparingly as, with meter, she can make use of this and do her EX command grab. It will get you out of the air and put you in a knocked down position. Avoid this kind of situation as it will almost always lead to close-range pressure. Yuri thrives on close range pressure. Your job at this distance, aside from denying a solid connect from Yuri, is to get out of this range. You can poke her out of her demon flip by jumping straight up with B or CD. You can also do df+C to poke her out quickly. Pick your moments and poke holes through her defense. As Terry, you can also hold db and charge Rising Tackle. It won't work all the time, but it will make them thick twice before attacking you.
Coming soon: Defense and Offense