Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Shen Woo => Topic started by: desmond_kof on April 09, 2012, 10:57:34 PM
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This thread is to share your opinion on Shen's general gameplay advantages and disadvantages, which may be added to his wiki page here: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29)
Ok, I will start:
Pros:
* High damage output
* High comeback probability factor, best anchor in the game
* Can spend little meter towards a high damage combo
* Solid ground and jumping normals
* Can deal with projectiles fairly well (negate them, EX move and dm's can go through them)
* Easy combo execution
Cons:
* Can't do much with no meter
* Can't confirm many combos from a low attack (only HD combos, d.b > d.a > hcb~f +P, etc.)
* Has trouble anti-airing angled jump-ins outside of the front of his head (CABC is an option but is 2 stocks)
* Has trouble punishing opponents moves, a lot of moves have slow start-up
Anyone agree or disagree with any points?
Feel free to make up your own list!
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I don't think that I would say that Shen has difficult HD combos. Generally I feel like he's one of the easiest characters to use execution-wise. In fact I might mention in the pros that his combo execution is very easy. I would maybe mention in the cons that he requires meter for his instant grab, since it's only 1 frame if it's the EX version, but also mention in the pros that his EX command grab gives him very high damage combos. Perhaps also worth mentioning is that he builds meter somewhat slowly and also that he can't do much damage without at least 1 drive.
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the cons that he requires meter for his instant grab, since it's only 1 frame if it's the EX version, but also mention in the pros that his EX command grab gives him very high damage combos.
EX cmd grab is 3 frame startup :(
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Yeah...Shen's HD combos are INSANELY easy to do. Worst thing, just timing his Axe Handle + Followup in some of them, and even then...yeah.
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the cons that he requires meter for his instant grab, since it's only 1 frame if it's the EX version, but also mention in the pros that his EX command grab gives him very high damage combos.
EX cmd grab is 3 frame startup :(
My mind is blown. Why the hell would SNK give Shen a worse command grab than Benimaru? It's like they deliberately chose for Beni to dominate everyone at everything. Ok, yeah, shit. Shen's ability to punish is slightly worse than I thought.
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My mind is blown. Why the hell would SNK give Shen a worse command grab than Benimaru? It's like they deliberately chose for Beni to dominate everyone at everything. Ok, yeah, shit. Shen's ability to punish is slightly worse than I thought.
Because someone complained that it was a sexist portrayal for Shen to backhand the female characters. So they nerfed it.
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I don't think that I would say that Shen has difficult HD combos. Generally I feel like he's one of the easiest characters to use execution-wise.
Do you think someone needs good confirming skills for his combos? Because many times if you don't properly confirm his s.C or d.B into anything, you can potentially miss out on good damage.
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I don't think that I would say that Shen has difficult HD combos. Generally I feel like he's one of the easiest characters to use execution-wise.
Do you think someone needs good confirming skills for his combos? Because many times if you don't properly confirm his s.C or d.B into anything, you can potentially miss out on good damage.
If you can't confirm st.C, f.B into something, you have the reaction skills of a snail. Confirming off of his lows can be problematic, but you'll only need it for a grand total of one instance, which is HD activation from lows.
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Can't confirm many combos from a low attack (only HD combos, d.b > d.a > hcb~f +P, etc.)
what about ;dn + ;b ;dn+ ;c F+ ;b..??
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You mean besides that you have to be damn close, and the fact that the d.B, d.C link is a 1-2 frame link, which if not landed, will lead you to at best a slightly neutral situation?
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I'd say that sums him up pretty nicely. High risk high reward character. You could also add that he has a lot of trouble opening people up and that he has hardly any safe pressure.
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I'd say that sums him up pretty nicely. High risk high reward character. You could also add that he has a lot of trouble opening people up and that he has hardly any safe pressure.
Define safe pressure.
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Maybe I should say safe block strings. The only think I think Shen can get away with is something like cl.C F.B QCF C(feint) and immediately into something else.
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Safe blockstrings are overrated.
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I guess. But hey, it's KoF. You gotta take some risks to get what you want. Especially with a character like Shen.
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Yeah, he does have his qcf+C feints which you can use after some of his normals too, which can give him some plus frames on block which can be good for baiting reversals or movement.
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Do you think someone needs good confirming skills for his combos? Because many times if you don't properly confirm his s.C or d.B into anything, you can potentially miss out on good damage.
Well if you put it that way then everyone's going to be in the same boat, sorry Des, as a Shen arcade user for the whole year, now that I don't use him I can safely say he was a pretty easy character.
For his HD the whole two things you have to look out is the timing for his qcb A.qcf A Hammer follow ups and doing his [HC] qcf C too fast and getting a DM.
Having said that, he's still not top 8 IMHO.
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Do you think someone needs good confirming skills for his combos? Because many times if you don't properly confirm his s.C or d.B into anything, you can potentially miss out on good damage.
Well if you put it that way then everyone's going to be in the same boat, sorry Des, as a Shen arcade user for the whole year, now that I don't use him I can safely say he was a pretty easy character.
For his HD the whole two things you have to look out is the timing for his qcb A.qcf A Hammer follow ups and doing his [HC] qcf C too fast and getting a DM.
Having said that, he's still not top 8 IMHO.
It's okay, the people have spoken and I agree: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29#Gameplay_Overview (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shen_Woo_%28XIII%29#Gameplay_Overview)
If anyone agrees and disagrees with this list, please express how you feel...it is not set in stone.
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Since i play shen on my first team I can say shen very easy to pick Hd combos and scrub confirm
I'm agree with all yours opinions in that list except that shen is not the best anchor in the game i think yuri and claw iori are above him but for me the best anchor in the game is kyo at is full potential no matter what.
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While I agree that Kyo is a very well rounded and strong character I feel that he, has problems finding other ways in if he runs into a character that does a good job of controlling the air.
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He may be a easy character when it comes to combos but outside of that hes hard.
like everybody else says his anti air options aint as strong as they seem, he doesnt have good lows (dont matter to me as much) it hard for him to open up his opponent and for me his air to air game is kinda weak for some reason j.B doesnt always get the job done for me.
also him having meter doesnt matter to me as much cause using his feint along with his j.B lets him put on some good pressure.
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also him having meter doesnt matter to me as much cause using his feint along with his j.B lets him put on some good pressure.
j.B for pressure? Please elaborate.
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you know how j.B can whiff on a standing opponent well the way i c it most folks who c someone throw out a normal tends to stand alot more and if you empty jump some folks can already see the grab coming or they see you goin low so j.B to me to me kinda gives off a illusion as if you stop pressuring
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Yeah whiffing high angled jump attacks is sort of a old gimmick but it does work; it loses if someone just hops or jumps out of the way or alt guards or just dps you.
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Yeah whiffing high angled jump attacks is sort of a old gimmick but it does work; it loses if someone just hops or jumps out of the way or alt guards or just dps you.
what i been tryin to do is hit with j.B i kinda figure if im able to control when it hits or whiff then i think i could have the edge since most folks will block high
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Yeah whiffing high angled jump attacks is sort of a old gimmick but it does work; it loses if someone just hops or jumps out of the way or alt guards or just dps you.
what i been tryin to do is hit with j.B i kinda figure if im able to control when it hits or whiff then i think i could have the edge since most folks will block high
If you're trying to hit a grounded opponent with that, be careful because someone can just cr.B trip guard that sucka...
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Yeah whiffing high angled jump attacks is sort of a old gimmick but it does work; it loses if someone just hops or jumps out of the way or alt guards or just dps you.
what i been tryin to do is hit with j.B i kinda figure if im able to control when it hits or whiff then i think i could have the edge since most folks will block high
If you're trying to hit a grounded opponent with that, be careful because someone can just cr.B trip guard that sucka...
gotta keep mixin it up with his other air normals.
i do have a question for yal. im starting to use his command grab a lil more and i was wondering if doing ;c ;fd ;b ;dn ;df ;fd ;c feint run into the command grab was a good thing to do? i dont see many people do that
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If you're trying to hit a grounded opponent with that, be careful because someone can just cr.B trip guard that sucka...
Sorry to single you out Des, but lately this term has been thrown out WAY too much and used incorrectly including commentators at TheRunBacks as well which we help correct:
Trip Guard: A character's ability to Cancel the Recovery Frames of a jump by Blocking. The character loses this ability if they perform a move during their jump.
Source (http://www.option-select.com/strategy/article/?a=12#tripguard)
So people keep talking about the wrong character in the first place...all we used to say was "d.B as anti-air". I feel that people keep wanting to label stuff unnecessarily. Once again, this isn't directed at you specifically, I meant the FGC as a whole.
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you know how j.B can whiff on a standing opponent well the way i c it most folks who c someone throw out a normal tends to stand alot more and if you empty jump some folks can already see the grab coming or they see you goin low so j.B to me to me kinda gives off a illusion as if you stop pressuring
I see what you're getting at, I dunno if I would call that "pressure"....maybe mixup.
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If you're trying to hit a grounded opponent with that, be careful because someone can just cr.B trip guard that sucka...
Sorry to single you out Des, but lately this term has been thrown out WAY too much and used incorrectly including commentators at TheRunBacks as well which we help correct:
Trip Guard: A character's ability to Cancel the Recovery Frames of a jump by Blocking. The character loses this ability if they perform a move during their jump.
Source (http://www.option-select.com/strategy/article/?a=12#tripguard)
So people keep talking about the wrong character in the first place...all we used to say was "d.B as anti-air". I feel that people keep wanting to label stuff unnecessarily. Once again, this isn't directed at you specifically, I meant the FGC as a whole.
Thanks for enlightening me on that. Maybe you should front page that information to let more people know?
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Thanks for enlightening me on that. Maybe you should front page that information to let more people know?
Hehe I dunno if I should, I had to google it myself coz I thought it was being used incorrectly.