Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Ash Crimson => Topic started by: nilcam on October 27, 2010, 04:14:57 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/ash_01.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d = Recompenses
Ash grabs his opponent with his hand on their face and makes a small green flaming explosion.
- Can be broken
- Hit Detection: Close
- Damage: 100
Command Normals
;bk + ;b = Floreal
Ash does a twirl-like motion while standing on one leg and thrusts his other leg towards his opponent, it's still pretty safe and fast so it's prone to catch people off guard, use it sparingly.
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50
;bk + ;d = Floreal (backward)
Same as Floreal except he's moving backwards now, useful after a jump-in/cross-up
- Faster than ;bk + ;b
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50
Special Attacks
Charge ;bk, ;fd + ;a / ;c = Ventose *
Ash makes flaming green crescent then throws it at the opponent, the weak version shoots one crescent, the strong version still has slower start-up but travels faster with more damage potential and bigger hitbox, does two hits and counter acts other projectiles as well, neither versions can be spammed much because of their fixed recovery but you should feel obligated to use them regardless, zoning tool for far or mid-screen pressure.
- EX shoots two separate crescent blades very fast
- Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 60/22+45+70/40+80+40+80
Charge ;dn, ;up + ;b / ;d = Nivose *
Ash somersaults up into the air with green flames coming out near his feet, An excellent AA that can be used to punish jump-ins, makes for a good wake-up attack and an all around punisher as well, the B version is really quick and the recovery on it allows it to be somewhat spammable, the strong version lasts longer but because of the bigger hitbox it's harder to punish now, use it in BnB's just to be safe.
- EX does more hits and has an invincible start-up
- Drive/Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 50+30/65+30x2/80+40x3
Charge ;bk, ;fd + ;b / ;d = Germinal Caprice *
Ash dashes forward and tackles the opponent while covered in flames, the weak version comes out faster and knocks the opponent. the strong version goes further and juggles the opponent.
EX does more hits and juggles the opponent into the air for a follow-up.
- Drive/Super Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 60/75/20x3+80
;qcb + ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d = Genee *
Ash blows a kiss that makes a green flame appear in an area depending on which button you press, it works a lot like Orochi Shermie's Moonless Thundercloud, an excellent zoning and pressure tool for opponents getting up or in the corner. weak punch version comes out at arm length. weak kick version comes out at about half screen. strong punch version comes out at 3/4 screen. strong kick version comes out at the other side of the screen.
- EX comes out quicker and makes the flame explode instantly.
- Super Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 30/40x2+50
Desperation Move
;qcf x 2+ ;a / ;c = Thermidor
Ash makes a giant green energy ball then propels it towards his opponent, the start-up is mediocre so you have to be very careful when you use either version of this DM.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 20x7+40
;qcf x 2+ ;b / ;d = Pluivose *
Ash does three Nivose's in a row, comes out pretty fast making it pretty easy to combo into, it's still an okay AA since the hitbox on Nivose is a bit bigger, there isn't much of difference between the B or D version except the D version is faster and goes a bit higher.
- EX has an invincible start-up and executes another Nivose rep.
- Max Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 20x6+30x3/20x9+40x3
;a , ;b , ;c , ;d = Sans Culotte
Greens flames shoot from the ground around Ash causing him to glow a green aura, this move allows all his charge moves to have zero charge time (Ventose, Nivose, and Germinal Caprice) for a short period (lasts a little over five seconds) allowing Ash to freely combo with any of his charge moves, incredibly good against opponents in the corner and has immense juggle potential, the start-up frames aren't invincible so be sure to combo into it just to be safe, works very well as a reversal, uses 2 stocks.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 100
;qcb, ;hcf + ;a ;c = Germinal
Ash dashes across the screen leaving a trail of green flames (and his opponent) behind him, it's an interesting move because the damage potential is good and it seals your opponents special attacks, drive meter, and special meter for about 10 seconds, doesn't work as an AA unless they're right near the ground as soon as you activate it, if both characters are in the corner when this is used they'll both be returned to the middle of the stage, also has okay cross-up potential, it's also only usable while Sans-Culotte is active, and if this move is activated it will cancel out San-Culotte.
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 0+15x12
Neomax
;hcb x 2+ ;b ;d = Fructidor
Ash grabs the opponent an laughs while he engulfs them in a myriad of purple flames, then it ends with the flames exploding launching the opponent far into the air then hitting the ground. When max canceled into it pulls the opponent to the ground to execute it.
- Hit Detection: Close/High
- Damage: 480
Ash's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ash_Crimson_(XIII))
Console changes:
- (shown in video) All versions of Genie stay on the screen longer.
- (shown in video) Sans-culotte (ABCD) has had its damage scaling adjusted. It scales more overall.
- Floreal (forward) (b+B) has faster startup and can be comboed from light attacks.
- B version of Nivose (d_u+K) has had its invincibility increased. The invincibility ends as soon as the hitbox appears.
- EX Genie now knocks away while retaining its juggling properties
- (shown in video) Germinal now takes no gauge
- (shown in video) Thermidor’s startup is faster
- (shown in video) The version of EX Genie done using both kicks tracks the opponent.
Yamamoto – Genie remains on the screen for a longer time. It may be interesting to use Genie as a wall of defense as Ventose can now be used while Genie is present. Although Sans Culotte scales more frequently, please try using Germinal as that no longer requires stocks itself.
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Normals
Standing
st. ;a - A quick slap attack, basic poke and fast, stops AA like usual
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25
st. ;b- A simple kick attack that's aimed low
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30
st. ;c - Thrust punch, has good range so it may start a lot of standard combos
- Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70
st. ;d - Heavy kick, good range but it's kinda slow
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 80
Close Normals
cl. ;c - Upward punch attack, okay range but it's more vertical than horizontal
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70
cl. ;d - Heavy low kick, mediocre range range so it's not too useful
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 80
Crouching
cr. ;a - It's the same as his st. A except he's crouching now
- Chain/Cancel-able
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 25
cr. ;b - A quick crouching kick, good for running in and poking
- Chain/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 30
cr. ;c - Crouch uppercut, poor horizontal range but great vertical range
- Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 70
cr. ;d - Crouch kick, knocks standing opponents down when hit, whiff cancellable
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: Low
- Damage: 80
Jumping
j. ;a - jump light punch, just a quick hit in the air, good for air-to-air hits and not much else
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)
j. ;b - jump light kick, has surprisingly good horizontal range
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 45(40)
j. ;c - strong punch attack in the air, a pretty good attack in air-to-air but not as good as his j. B
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 72(70)
j. ;d - The range is good mostly due to how Ash sticks his left leg out further from the rest of his body, good for jump-ins
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 70(68)
Blowback Attack
;c ;d - A hard thrust punch attack, great reach
- Whiff/Cancellable
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 75
j. ;c ;d A hard thrust punch attack in the air
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 90(80)
Guard Cancel Blowback Attack
GC ;c ;d
- Hit Detection: High
- Damage: 10
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Gameplay Notes
Ash's play-style is some what of an enigma, he predominantly relies on charge moves but he also has a nice set of moves to zone/combo with. His zoning options revolve around Ventose, Genee, and Thermidor. He can use Nivose and Pluivose for anti-airs, then there's his San Culotte which allows him to do a free style combo to his opponent because of temporary zero charge time, and if that isn't enough he can follow-up with his Germinal DM to seal all his opponents gauges for a brief period. His HD combos can do upwards to 40 to 50+ hits because of the amount of juggle opportunities. His play-style is good for people who like to zone and poke their opponents, however good precision and timing is required for his juggle and Sans Culotte custom combos.
Pros
- Great zoning game
- Amazing juggle potential
- Good pokes
- Long HD combos
- Strong corner pressure
- Can lock the opponents meters for a brief time
- Sans Culotte, coupled with HD combos, adds a whole different dimension of depth to his gameplay for advanced players
Cons
- Jumping normals aren't as straight forward as most characters
- Charging character
- Limited combo potential outside of Drive/HD canceling and Sans Culotte
- Needs the corner for max potential
- A lot of his moves can be punished easily if whiffed
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Combos
Combo Notation
(HD) - Activate Hyperdrive
(HDC) - Hyperdrive Cance
(DC) - Drive Cancel
(SC) - Super Cancel
(MC) - MAX Cancel
DMG - Damage
No Gauge
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K
- cr. Ax2, b+B, d~u+K
- st. C, b~f+K
- cr. C, b~f+K
No Meter/50% Drive
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K, (DC) b~f+P
- cr. Ax2~3, b+B, d~u+K, (DC) b~f+K
- st. C, b~f+K, (DC) d~u+K
- cr. C, b~f+K, (DC) d~u+K
1 Meter/50% Drive
- st. C, b~f+D, (DC) qcb+2 buttons, b~f+Ax2, d~u+D
- cr. C, b~f+D, (DC) qcb+2 buttons, b~f+Ax2, d~u+D
- st. C, b+B, d~u+B, (SC) qcfx2+K
- cr. C, b+B, d~u+B, (SC) qcfx2+K
2 Meter/No Drive
- st. C, b+B, qcfx2+BD
- cr. C, b+B, A B C D, Sans Cullote combo
- cr. Bx2, b+B, A B C D, Sans Culotte combo
Sans Culotte Combos
- [b~f+B, b+D, b~f+K]xn
- b~f+C, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff, continued below
-- [b~f+D, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff)]x3, b~f+D, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff), b~f+C, b+D, b~f+A, finish combo
- - b~f+A, [b~f+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff) b~f+A]x2, b~f+B, b+D, b~f+D, b+B (whiff), b~f+C, b+D, b~f+A, finish combo
- - b~f+A, b~f+C, [b~f+C, b+D, b~f+D, b+D (whiff), b~f+A, b~f+C]x2, finish combo
HD Combos
- cr. Bx2, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, d~u+D
- st. C, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, d~u+D
- cr. Bx2, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, qcfx2+BD
- st. C, b+B, [HD] st. C, b+B, d~u+B (1), [HDC] b~f+A, [d~u+D (1), (HDC) b~f+Ax2]×3~4, qcfx2+BD
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Forgive me Aenthin, I had to move your post around so we can post the combos etc...
Quick notes:
1. Typos: The name of Ventose isn't listed while Nivose is still using K instead of ;b / ;d Fixed. Yay
2. While Ash's jump ;d has great vertical reach and can do crossups, despite its animation, it's a horrible anti-air.
3. ;bk + ;d is much, much faster than ;bk + ;b
I'm not sure if ;bk + ;b is really cancellable though. I mean, you can do Nivose and EX Pluviose at the end of the move but he seems to just simply recover quickly enough for him to connect to them. This is without Sans-Cullottes, btw.
I didn't know far standing ;c was cancellable though. Hmm...
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Question about Germinal. Since it seals special moves, would that mean Raiden would lose his charge on drop kicks?
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Question about Germinal. Since it seals special moves, would that mean Raiden would lose his charge on drop kicks?
Yeah, I believe so
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Can Germinal still connect with during San-Culotte combos or does it come out too slow now?
Now that the opponent can't just switch out, there is much more of a reason to use Germinal.
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are there any ways to make the enemy eat thermidor? has anyone ever seen this DM been used properly? or is it simply a dud?
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Can Germinal still connect with during San-Culotte combos or does it come out too slow now?
Now that the opponent can't just switch out, there is much more of a reason to use Germinal.
Yes, as it can only be used during Sans-Cullote mode
are there any ways to make the enemy eat thermidor? has anyone ever seen this DM been used properly? or is it simply a dud?
Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.
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Well, not really properly as much as it's accidental, but I used Thermidor a few times before and twice I caught it still juggling opponents like it does in XI. Dunno how to set that up properly though.
Still, I think Thermidor is best used as a pressure tool, and for catching people off guard by super canceling it off Ash's Ventose and Genie.
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Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.
Yeah, I'm not just gonna skip over it. I was thinking maybe since Ash doesn't have his command move anymore for Thermidor juggle he can use EX Germinal Caprice. That might allow for Thermidor to juggle opponent across the screen like in XI.
Also, maybe this combo works: cr.Bx2, b+B, b~f+K, qcf+AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C
EX Genee might allow enough time for Thermidor to juggle opponent.
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does Caprice (b~fK) have any invincible frames or defensive characteristics?
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Well the DM has a bunch of start-up frames so your not likely to see it get much use in high level play, I suppose you could use it just before the opponent hits the ground (and hopefully they don't safe roll) to apply wake-up pressure, but it's still kinda hit or miss so I'd probably skip over it and save the meter for other moves.
Yeah, I'm not just gonna skip over it. I was thinking maybe since Ash doesn't have his command move anymore for Thermidor juggle he can use EX Germinal Caprice. That might allow for Thermidor to juggle opponent across the screen like in XI.
Also, maybe this combo works: cr.Bx2, b+B, b~f+K, qcf+AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C
EX Genee might allow enough time for Thermidor to juggle opponent.
After b+B his b,f+K is too slow to connect. Might be possible with EX version, but I still doubt it. Also what do you mean by qcf+AB?
does Caprice (b~fK) have any invincible frames or defensive characteristics?
Doesn't seem like it, even with EX doesn't seem like it.
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After b+B his b,f+K is too slow to connect. Might be possible with EX version, but I still doubt it. Also what do you mean by qcf+AB?
Sorry, I meant b~f+K, qcb, +AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C
b~f+C/D doesn't have to connect from b+B. I was just using it as an example. I'm more interested in thinking an EX Genee or EX Germinal Caprice could pop them up long enoughto SC into Thermidor for a hit and possibly juggle.
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After b+B his b,f+K is too slow to connect. Might be possible with EX version, but I still doubt it. Also what do you mean by qcf+AB?
Sorry, I meant b~f+K, qcb, +AB, SC, qcfx2+A/C
b~f+C/D doesn't have to connect from b+B. I was just using it as an example. I'm more interested in thinking an EX Genee or EX Germinal Caprice could pop them up long enoughto SC into Thermidor for a hit and possibly juggle.
Could be possible, I tried all the special attacks with super cancelling except qcb, doesn't work. Even if it does I think it would be only useful if there's a way to do it midscreen so it'll do more hits. I'd love to find out if there is a way to do it!
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How about d+B 2x, b+B > HD > close C, b+B, d~u+K, HDC b~f+K, d~u+K, HDC b~f+K, SC Thermidor. I'm not sure about button strengths yet.
Basically, it's this instead of Sans Cullottes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-FZ1fyX5XE#t=1m30s
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How about d+B 2x, b+B > HD > close C, b+B, d~u+K, HDC b~f+K, d~u+K, HDC b~f+K, SC Thermidor
I'm not sure about button strengths yet.
Could be possible except that first d~u+D would have to be B version. Not sure if you would use a HDC midscreen and end it early by using qcfx2+P.
Edit: Best thing I could find on this is (corner) j.C -> s.C -> b,f+K -> qcb+AC -> qcfx2+P but this doesn't work mid-screen
Could be possible, I tried all the special attacks with super cancelling except qcb, doesn't work. Even if it does I think it would be only useful if there's a way to do it midscreen so it'll do more hits. I'd love to find out if there is a way to do it!
On a side note, I read up on Ash a bit yesterday and tried out some stuff.
He can do this combo in the corner
1 power gauge
1 power gauge - 0 Drive Gauge
Edit: j.C -> s.C -> b,f+BD -> b,f+C -> b+D -> b,f+C (need to hold forward for a split second to move closer)
Instead a slightly easier combo is:
1 power gauge - 0 Drive Gauge
j.C -> s.C -> b,f+BD -> b,f+C -> b+D -> dash b+D -> dash CD (43%)
I think I read that you can actually add another b,f+C after the b+D or b,f+A, but you have to do some sort of trick to make him walk forward a step while you do b,f+C. Might be back then hold forward a little, then C. It might be that you can shorten how far back the b+D goes. Gotta try this further
Also you can start an HD combo like this in the corner:
j.C -> s.C -> b,f+BD -> b,f+C -> b+D -> BC -> b,f+C -> HDC stuff
This means that you can actually do a combo starting with ABCD, when it ends you can cancel a b+D into HD combo.
After all this practicing I'm starting to think it's too much effort and practice to be worth the time.
Edit: Found out today that the easiest way to do a (near) full screen combo starting with Sans is to do this:
d,u+B -> d,u+B -> DC b,f+D (miss) -> d,u+b -> d,u+B -> b+D -> b,f+D -> continue
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Tried out connecting his follow up to Sans, Germinal, and only had time to find this.
(c) = cancelled into
ABCD -> d,u+B -> d,u+B -> (c) b+D -> (c) b,f+D -> (c) b+B (miss) -> b,f+C -> [d,u+B -> (c) b+D -> d,u+B]x2 -> d,u+B -> b+D -> qcb,hcf+AC
Good to use the finisher if the opponent has a lot of health or is Raiden hahah
Also a good starter for a hyperdrive combo is d.B -> d.B -> d.BC -> b,f+BD
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Also a good starter for a hyperdrive combo is d.B -> d.B -> d.BC -> b,f+BD
Is that d.BC done early or late? I'm assuming it's done late so a d.C comes out right? Otherwise, couldn't you just do d.B x2, (c) c.b~f+BCD a la Leona?
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Yeah late, so a d.C will come out.
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Any tricks to do d+B to b+B without accidentally doing Genie?
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Whenever you do d.B, do it starting with db.B
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Any tricks to do d+B to b+B without accidentally doing Genie?
If you're close you can do d.B, s.B, b+B too but Ash's method works farther away.
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Just realized that Thermidor doesn't have that much priority on startup. Earlier, I was hit out of Thermidor by a jump attack directly above me (not crossup), despite having fully formed the ball already. Granted, it was Benimaru's jump D. Just to be sure though, never use Thermidor as an anti-air.
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Honestly that super shouldn't be used unless it's from near full screen while the opponent is either knocked down or in the middle of another move. I know that in XII and XIII this super isn't that great. The the years before it was ok to use since it came out faster, but XII and XIII it comes out too slow.
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How bad is the recovery for Germinal and Sans-Culotte on block?
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How bad is the recovery for Germinal and Sans-Culotte on block?
On block the opponent can do a full combo punish.
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Ash in all those vids was really good. I'm guessing it was the same player because of their frequent use of the fire kiss(this move is good people) in the corner.
Posting this here because it's relevant to Ash. Just how good is Genie exactly? Whenever I play, I keep forgetting he had them. Lol
All I see is that it's good for some pressure and zoning but unless it's EX Genie, it explodes way too slow and doesn't negate projectiles.
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Monster Ash combo. Rare to see San-Culotte>HD. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISWiMl0caI&#t=2m54s
He was so close to having 1 stock during that. I wish he could of finished off the combo with Germinal during Sans-Culotte or Pluviose at the end of the HD combo.
I guess if you're close to having almost 3 supers, you could do an HD combo so that way the meter builds up to 3 stock during it. Then go into San-Culottes combo and finish with Germinal.
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Monster Ash combo. Rare to see San-Culotte>HD. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISWiMl0caI&#t=2m54s
He was so close to having 1 stock during that. I wish he could of finished off the combo with Germinal during Sans-Culotte or Pluviose at the end of the HD combo.
I guess if you're close to having almost 3 supers, you could do an HD combo so that way the meter builds up to 3 stock during it. Then go into San-Culottes combo and finish with Germinal.
Duc (Ash) has been working on some pretty sick combos, I'll try to get it on film. (we have an agreement that if I film he's not allowed to do it on me hehe).
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Monster Ash combo. Rare to see San-Culotte>HD. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISWiMl0caI&#t=2m54s
He was so close to having 1 stock during that. I wish he could of finished off the combo with Germinal during Sans-Culotte or Pluviose at the end of the HD combo.
I guess if you're close to having almost 3 supers, you could do an HD combo so that way the meter builds up to 3 stock during it. Then go into San-Culottes combo and finish with Germinal.
if you notice, both during a successful sans-culotte and HD activation, no meter is gained. otherwise, people would HD combo simply to gain ridiculous amounts of meter.
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Monster Ash combo. Rare to see San-Culotte>HD. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISWiMl0caI&#t=2m54s
He was so close to having 1 stock during that. I wish he could of finished off the combo with Germinal during Sans-Culotte or Pluviose at the end of the HD combo.
I guess if you're close to having almost 3 supers, you could do an HD combo so that way the meter builds up to 3 stock during it. Then go into San-Culottes combo and finish with Germinal.
if you notice, both during a successful sans-culotte and HD activation, no meter is gained. otherwise, people would HD combo simply to gain ridiculous amounts of meter.
Love that combo, Kane linked me that to me earlier.
I can get down the Sans/HD combo in any order now, but this guy is simply ridiculous. In order to do that combo he had to do walking forward b~f+C, which isn't hard by itself, but during a combo 4 times takes some serious skill.
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if you notice, both during a successful sans-culotte and HD activation, no meter is gained. otherwise, people would HD combo simply to gain ridiculous amounts of meter.
Oh sorry. I worded it wrong. I meant do a little combo before HD activation to work up the meter to 3 stock. Like j.D, c.CxxHD, etc.
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At the end of that video, when time is nearly out and Elizabeth (with a decent health lead) just starts turtling, what do you guys think Ash should have done? It seems like a really tough spot for Ash.
He used his only bar on an EX fireball, which was a risky gamble. He then tried to go for a throw, which Elizabeth broke.
Might that have been a good time for his super fireball? Regardless of whether she jumped it, or rolled, or just blocked, that would still put her at some risk, right?
I'm interested what some other options could have been.
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Should have rushed in with that 1 meter, zoning using fireballs with just a few seconds left on the clock isn't a very good idea I think. If he rushed in with that meter he would have had a better chance of landing damage and could have punished Liz on reaction with the kick super if she did anything.
On a side note, this SDM of his feels like a balanced version of Yun's Genei jin (?) from 3rd Strike.
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At the end of that video, when time is nearly out and Elizabeth (with a decent health lead) just starts turtling, what do you guys think Ash should have done? It seems like a really tough spot for Ash.
He used his only bar on an EX fireball, which was a risky gamble. He then tried to go for a throw, which Elizabeth broke.
Might that have been a good time for his super fireball? Regardless of whether she jumped it, or rolled, or just blocked, that would still put her at some risk, right?
I'm interested what some other options could have been.
Thermidor was definitely his best option. If not that, a few well-placed Genee would've still kept Liz on defense, enough for an overhead or grab.
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The opponent had a lot more life than Thermidor would handle. Again I stress that people avoid using that super, it's pretty bad overall. If it was like KOFXI, it'd be good to use, but the start up is so bad I've had opponents dash hyper jump from full screen and hit me out of it.
His best bet at that point is to rush down. With one stock he can do a 40% corner combo or mid screen 30%ish d.B, d.B, b+B, d~u+BD.
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I took Duc's advice and tried to use Thermidor when I knocked people down. It does add nice pressure though yeah, it's still pretty bad. It did make one person forget I put up Genies around, however.
Also tried doing some Sans-Cullottes combos and...failed miserably. xD I don't have XI so this is actually the first time I tried doing it. Didn't realize I have to be fast about it. In the end, I just finished practice mode with A, B, C, D > Germinal. xD
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In the end, I just finished practice mode with A, B, C, D > Germinal. xD
That works? I thought after San-Culotte, you would have to do a hit or 2 before Germinal.
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In the end, I just finished practice mode with A, B, C, D > Germinal. xD
That works? I thought after San-Culotte, you would have to do a hit or 2 before Germinal.
No. You just need Sans-Culottes and that's it.
Oh and I'm talking about the followup Germinal, not Caprice.
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Ash combo demostration from snkgameHK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BLHt6KkEfg
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I took Duc's advice and tried to use Thermidor when I knocked people down. It does add nice pressure though yeah, it's still pretty bad. It did make one person forget I put up Genies around, however.
Also tried doing some Sans-Cullottes combos and...failed miserably. xD I don't have XI so this is actually the first time I tried doing it. Didn't realize I have to be fast about it. In the end, I just finished practice mode with A, B, C, D > Germinal. xD
His San's Combo's really aren't that bad. When you get used to it, it feels like single inputs for most moves, since you're cancelling into other specials without having to charge.
ABCD
d,u+D
b+D
f+D (caprice)
b+B (miss)
f+C (fireball)
d,u+B
b+D
f+D (caprice)
b+B (miss)
f+C (fireball)
d,u+B
b+D
f+D (caprice)
b+B (miss)
f+C (fireball)
whatever finisher
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I read this on the Japanese forum, but confirmed. You can do the following
C -> b+B, d.B -> b+B
Seems to be like a 1-frame link and can only be followed up by BC. Doing d~u+B won't connect if you're too far away since the move needs to hit as early as possible (the bottom of the move).
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Curious, if I place a Genee in front of the opponent and they react and hit me and the Genee hits them (AFAIK, Genee still stays even if you get hit), is it possible to connect an EX Pluivose after trading hits? Both of us still on the ground of course.
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Curious, if I place a Genee in front of the opponent and they react and hit me and the Genee hits them (AFAIK, Genee still stays even if you get hit), is it possible to connect an EX Pluivose after trading hits? Both of us still on the ground of course.
Not quite sure, but it's iffy.
I suppose it would depend on when it explodes - as you are getting hit, he gets hit at the same time, or after you get hit and they are recovering from the move. If it's possible would have to be from an opponent's light attack. I do know the EX super is either a 2 or 1 frame attack so it would be very close.
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Curious, if I place a Genee in front of the opponent and they react and hit me and the Genee hits them (AFAIK, Genee still stays even if you get hit), is it possible to connect an EX Pluivose after trading hits? Both of us still on the ground of course.
Not quite sure, but it's iffy.
I suppose it would depend on when it explodes - as you are getting hit, he gets hit at the same time, or after you get hit and they are recovering from the move. If it's possible would have to be from an opponent's light attack. I do know the EX super is either a 2 or 1 frame attack so it would be very close.
Hmm, speaking of exploding, I'm assuming it takes a little while before Genee explodes right? As in maybe a 1 second delay. And if the opponent never gets into range, will it still explode or just disappear?
I also have a few more questions if you don't mind.
I think I saw someone link a d D after a d A but I'm not sure. Although it's probably useless since Ash can cancel his d B anyways, I guess it's a good thing to keep in mind.
I'm assuming all specials after his b B is a link right? Because that's how I did combos with EX Pluivose. If it's so, is it possible to connect his command throw?
And speaking of command throw, the simple C > command throw should work right (hcb C, hcb BD)? EDIT: Oh wait, scratch that, he has Genee now. I guess there goes the C > command throw shortcut. :(
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Curious, if I place a Genee in front of the opponent and they react and hit me and the Genee hits them (AFAIK, Genee still stays even if you get hit), is it possible to connect an EX Pluivose after trading hits? Both of us still on the ground of course.
Not quite sure, but it's iffy.
I suppose it would depend on when it explodes - as you are getting hit, he gets hit at the same time, or after you get hit and they are recovering from the move. If it's possible would have to be from an opponent's light attack. I do know the EX super is either a 2 or 1 frame attack so it would be very close.
Hmm, speaking of exploding, I'm assuming it takes a little while before Genee explodes right? As in maybe a 1 second delay. And if the opponent never gets into range, will it still explode or just disappear?
I also have a few more questions if you don't mind.
I think I saw someone link a d D after a d A but I'm not sure. Although it's probably useless since Ash can cancel his d B anyways, I guess it's a good thing to keep in mind.
I'm assuming all specials after his b B is a link right? Because that's how I did combos with EX Pluivose. If it's so, is it possible to connect his command throw?
And speaking of command throw, the simple C > command throw should work right (hcb C, hcb BD)? EDIT: Oh wait, scratch that, he has Genee now. I guess there goes the C > command throw shortcut. :(
1. Genee does explode by itself after a certain amount of time. The normal one has a delay when it explodes, maybe like 0.5 seconds. I've seen people just run past it.
2. d.A, d.D does not link. The reason to use it is because d.D actually moves the character forward so you suffer less push back.
3. The only moved you can do after b.B is d,u+B, qcfx2+BD, ABCD, and d.B.
- b.B does not cancel normally so all combos are links. The exception to this is that b.B becomes cancellable in HD and ABCD mode
- For ABCD you can only do it after one light attack -> b.B. If you do C, b.B it won't connect because of too much pushback.
- d.B seems to be like a 1-frame link, so probably not a good idea to try it in a real match.
4. To combo the command throw neomax, I can only get 1 light attack -> neomax. I've tried different variations but none seems to work. It doesn't have that much range despite being a neomax. I usually do empty hop, wake up or dash neomax outside of a combo.
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- d.B seems to be like a 1-frame link, so probably not a good idea to try it in a real match.
Does the b B before the d B link need any special requirement to it such as distance (hitting at the last frames) or can the b B be a deep hit and still be able to link a d B?
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- d.B seems to be like a 1-frame link, so probably not a good idea to try it in a real match.
Does the b B before the d B link need any special requirement to it such as distance (hitting at the last frames) or can the b B be a deep hit and still be able to link a d B?
Doesn't seem to need to be that close. I've done C -> b+B, d.B
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4. To combo the command throw neomax, I can only get 1 light attack -> neomax. I've tried different variations but none seems to work. It doesn't have that much range despite being a neomax. I usually do empty hop, wake up or dash neomax outside of a combo.
Ash's NM has to be on par with Duo Lon's NM command grab in terms of range if not farther (considering it can MC off of his qcf x2+K DM) and DL can do a s.C/D into NM.
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Ash can't even do S.C into neomax I checked. The reason it cancels off his qcfx2+K is because that super moves him forward closer to the opponent. Meaning his range is shorter.
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You sure? DL's NM is pretty crappy too in terms of range. I gotta try for myself.
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i always felt (from the receiving end) that ash's had better range. i feel like duo lon requires sprite overlap sometimes (ok, so maybe not that bad but sometimes...).
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I think you guys should check the distance I do it from, it's almost always point blank.
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I think you guys should check the distance I do it from, it's almost always point blank.
We'll do this for dinner! If Ash has farther or same range than DL, then you buy me, if DL's has farther range than I buy =)
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I think you guys should check the distance I do it from, it's almost always point blank.
We'll do this for dinner! If Ash has farther or same range than DL, then you buy me, if DL's has farther range than I buy =)
Deal!
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Hi, i'm trying to do the hd cancels with ash but it seems almost imposible (too tight). Could someone explain to me how to do the nivose hd cancel to ventose?
I feel there is a trick doing that
Thanks
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Hi, i'm trying to do the hd cancels with ash but it seems almost imposible (too tight). Could someone explain to me how to do the nivose hd cancel to ventose?
I feel there is a trick doing that
Thanks
There are shortcuts for the charged moves: charge db~ub+K then fwd+P immediately. Characters like Leona need to repeat the set so I always return to db out of habit (like a triangle). Also, don't forget in his Sans Culotte mode you don't have to charge at all.
By the way, welcome to DC and don't forget to introduce yourself when you get a chance (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0).
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There are shortcuts for the charged moves: charge db~ub+K then fwd+P immediately. Characters like Leona need to repeat the set so I always return to db out of habit (like a triangle). Also, don't forget in his Sans Culotte mode you don't have to charge at all.
By the way, welcome to DC and don't forget to introduce yourself when you get a chance (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0).
i thought that it was db~uf and then fwd.
Thanks Kane317, ill try this out!!!
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Seeing how a lot of Ash's normals are different now. I thought of some things regarding them.
Now that he lost his f+A overhead. It seems his high/low game may be a little lacking. Now he has to jump to score high hits. Though I'm not sure how viable that overhead would be in XIII since it wasn't even super cancellable in XI. Though in that game you could just Quick Shift from that to get big damage. IN XIII, I guess you could HD activate for a combo but I'm going on a tangent.
Anyway, Ash's j.C changed from a low angled swipe to a forward arm extended hit. How viable is j.C now? I remember the old one could even cross up.
His lack of a command grab isn't too bad but maybe it could of made Thermidor more useful.
Is Ash's j.D still as good for crossups/non-crossups now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX71nNrEuqE#t=1m4s)
Is his far.C still Super Cancellable on whiff/hit? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX71nNrEuqE#t=1m45s)
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Seeing how a lot of Ash's normals are different now. I thought of some things regarding them.
Now that he lost his f+A overhead. It seems his high/low game may be a little lacking. Now he has to jump to score high hits. Though I'm not sure how viable that overhead would be in XIII since it wasn't even super cancellable in XI. Though in that game you could just Quick Shift from that to get big damage. IN XIII, I guess you could HD activate for a combo but I'm going on a tangent.
Anyway, Ash's j.C changed from a low angled swipe to a forward arm extended hit. How viable is j.C now? I remember the old one could even cross up.
His lack of a command grab isn't too bad but maybe it could of made Thermidor more useful.
Is Ash's j.D still as good for crossups/non-crossups now? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX71nNrEuqE#t=1m4s)
Is his far.C still Super Cancellable on whiff/hit? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX71nNrEuqE#t=1m45s)
f+A would be extremely nice to have to start HD combos. As for it being cancellable it could be possible since Vice can do it.
j.C is good air to air, but should be done pre-emptively if you can read a jump. It's best to use j.B air to air since it beats/trades against almost everything.
I said this previously, but *Do Not Use Thermidor* - long start up and completely vulnerable even at full screen against some characters
Ash can cross up with j.D, j.B, and j.A however all of them have about the same difficult to cross-up. It's not easy, but with practice you can find the right distance. I prefer to use j.A for crossing up, especially after a throw.
Far C. I don't use too much, but I believe it is cancellable on hit, but not on whiff.
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Do not use Thermidor indeed. It's only good for pressure now but even then, it's not efficient. I've caught some people with it once or twice but them bouncing off the ball is pretty much about luck now. You can't even hit anyone on the startup, when Ash hasn't released the ball yet, so using juggling moves like his EX Germinal Caprice doesn't work.
I miss the old j.C. This one, however, might not have crossup but it does have a suprisingly wide hitbox since can hit opponents on ground too...with relative ease.
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That really sucks how you can't combo Thermidor off of EX Germinal Caprice. Only thing I could see being useful is GeneexxThermidor to bait a jump. You did say that no hits can be scored before Ash actually throws it. So maybe that tactic isn't useful either.
*must find way to make Thermidor useful*
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That really sucks how you can't combo Thermidor off of EX Germinal Caprice. Only thing I could see being useful is GeneexxThermidor to bait a jump. You did say that no hits can be scored before Ash actually throws it. So maybe that tactic isn't useful either.
*must find way to make Thermidor useful*
Yes, Thermidor does not hit for a bit until after it's release. It's not even worth using as a setup. You'd rather spend the meter usage elsewhere. most likely you'd want to save it for ABCD if anything because you'll find that when using Ash you'll be in desperate need of all the meter you can get. Sans is definitely his best option for meter usage, followed by (in no particular order) s.C -> b+B -> qcfx2+BD or d.C -> b~f+BD or b~f+AC to punish.
If you start using Thermidor here and there, you're going to wish you saved the meter later in the round.
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The only saving grace for Thermidor is that it still protects you from midair projectiles (dunno about grounded ones like Power Wave) and the fact that you can super cancel it. Still really not very useful though. (That said, I still used it a lot of times on my matches yesterday. xD)
A few notes with his C Ventose too. Sometimes, it's more reliable than EX Ventose in negating projectiles as EX Ventose has a bit of a startup. This happens when a projectile is too close and/or too fast to counter with the EX version. Also, the startup where it negates projectiles has a pretty long frame. I just managed to counter a projectile when I thought I did C Ventose too early but Ash was still able to throw another one. I still don't know how this works with certain projectiles like EX versions.
I don't remember if I have any other notes for him.
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I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE4YXkuyvQ#t=3m19) have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).
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I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE4YXkuyvQ#t=3m19) have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).
Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.
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I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE4YXkuyvQ#t=3m19) have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).
Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.
Had a feeling you would like that clip.
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I'm interested in picking up Ash now but I have no idea where to start! It's so tempting to just hop into training mode and going for the big beefy combos without any idea of how to actually play him.
For some reason I think Ash should be playing a strong zoning style. Just keep them out and when they do something risky to get in you punish them with the sexiest combo they've ever seen.
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For some reason I think Ash should be playing a strong zoning style. Just keep them out and when they do something risky to get in you punish them with the sexiest combo they've ever seen.
^ This should be the description of Ash in our wiki.
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Wow that's actually pretty hard to do. After b~f+D, he cancels into either b+D or b+B and you can't even seen the animation but he empty cancels that into b~f+C. You do get less hits off his b~F+C, but you get 1 or 2 extra attacks. Also this combo with b~f+A, walking b~f+C is easier on Raiden (still hard, but compared to other characters) because of the wide hit box hahah.
Oh dang. I didn't even noticed he empty canceled until you pointed out and listened carefully.
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I don't know if this variation of his juggle combos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE4YXkuyvQ#t=3m19) have been displayed before, but you can never have too many references anyways (HD into Sans Culotte into another Sans Culotte).
I have never seen that variation before. Looks really tough to perform too. Thanks for posting that Kane. I'm always interested in Ash gameplay stuff.
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Ash's corner stun combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOwqgbcmLEw), requires 2 stocks and 60% drive meter. Apparently, if you can land a j.CD in the corner you can do it with 1 stock and 50% drive. Perhaps one our local Ash expert CMD.Duc could transcribe the combo. EDIT: Ok I transcibed it but if CMD.Duc or Mr Kof could double check for me that'll be great (particularly the strengths of the specials).
(Corner) j.D, s.C/d.C, Ex Germinal Carpice (c.b~f+K), C Ventose (c.b~f+C), b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B (c.d~u+B) [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, Sans Culotte (ABCD), { Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice, b.B (whiffs) } x4, Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice, C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, b.D, s.CD (dizzes), Genee A (qcb+A), j.D, s.C/d.C, Ex Germinal Caprice, C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose, b.D, Pluivose DM (qcf x2+K).
Sounds confusing as hell but since I intend to learn it as well I'm going to break it down:
I. j.D, d.C, Ex Germinal Caprice
II. C Ventose, b.D, C Ventose, Nivose B [1hit], [DC] A Ventose, (walk slightly) C Ventose
III. Nivose B [1hit], b.D, Germinal Caprice
I. --> II. --> ABCD --> ( III. --> b.B {whiff} ) x4 --> III. --> II. --> b.D --> s.CD (dizzes) --> Genee A --> I. --> II. --> b.D --> Pluivose
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^Amazing stuff there. Only 2 stock and 60% HD meter. Very nice.
Also, in this match vid, I like the way Ash runs to the other side after activating sans-culotte so he can take Terry to the corner quickly. I don't think I've seen someone do that before. Pretty smart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZudoCEab7I&#t=2m54s
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Finally footage of someone using Germinal after a long combo. Some great stuff show for Ash in this one.
I do have a question though. Can someone explain what exactly is happening at 1m35s?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2wLHuvUi4&#t=1m35s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2wLHuvUi4&#t=1m35s)
He does EX Genee, but it doesn't appear in front of him. It appears behind him slightly off screen. Is this a glitch?
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Yeah I caught that the first time I saw it too, I don't know how he initiated it to be a crossup.
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No Gauge
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K
Is it really possible to do - cr. Bx2, b+B, d~u+ ;d ?
Because ;b version of the d~u does 169, so it's easier for me to do - cr. Bx2, d~u+d in a first time which does 165Dmg.
I looked a video frame by frame, and it happears i can may be get more 1-2 frames. So it's may be me but the timing seems really tight. Moreover i think it's impossible to cancel the b.B so i can't do the combo charging while i'm doing the cr.B
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No Gauge
- cr. Bx2~3, b+B, d~u+K
Is it really possible to do - cr. Bx2, b+B, d~u+ ;d ?
Because ;b version of the d~u does 169, so it's easier for me to do - cr. Bx2, d~u+d in a first time which does 165Dmg.
I looked a video frame by frame, and it happears i can may be get more 1-2 frames. So it's may be me but the timing seems really tight. Moreover i think it's impossible to cancel the b.B so i can't do the combo charging while i'm doing the cr.B
It's B version only and the it's not cancelled off b+B, it's a link, so you do it right after b+B ends.
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There is a video of that combo I'm curious to see it
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There is a video of that combo I'm curious to see it
ashbasiccombo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERDQAxJFkns#ws)
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Console version of Ash doesn't seem to use up a power stock on his Germinal super anymore judging by some of the few videos I've seen. Of course, I could be wrong. Can anyone still confirm this?
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It's so sad that he'll be gone in the next KOF, been practicing him a lot last week.. :( he's a pretty awesome character. I'm just having a hard time with the HD cancels, I charge his B~F+ A, then I can't follow it up with the D~U+ K. ._.
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Shouldn't it be the other way around with db_ub+K, f+A?
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Ughh.. sorry but I don't quite understand. What should happen when I input "db_ub+K, f+A?" sorry sorry.
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Nivose/anti-air first (d_u+K) then Ventose/fireball (b_f+A). I dont think you can link A version of Ventose into Nivose unless it's in the corner.
If it's an HD combo, you're probably looking for anti-air (d_u+K) > dash attack (b_f+K). You can do a shortcut for that which is charge db, uf+K and hold K. Once the charge attacks comes out, you could hold db immediately afterwards.
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Oh swear?!?!! That sounds cool never knew there was a shortcut... what else can you shortcut?! HAHA I'm suddenly having interest in ash again. won't care if he's gon' be gone! Bet he'll get back up like Vice. >:)
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More Ash fun: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/9d6te_72fDk/ (http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/9d6te_72fDk/)
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j.D,s.C,b~f.BD,b~f.C,b.D,b~f.C,d~u.B
I have lot of trouble at doing this combo, because the b.D can hit at various height and i don't know which is the better (the higher i guess) and i must walk a little bit before the second b~f.C, so i'm missing the charge timing very often and doing a far/close C roughly 99% times :( (i sucessfully landed the the second b~f.C one time on a hundred test in a row)
Do you have any tips on this combo?
Atm i'm doing :
j.D,s.C,b~f.BD,b~f.C,b.D,d~u.D which is much easier to connect.
Moreover i just miss every sans culotte launcher/combo, if it was quarter circle move it would be easier to me because i just can't sucess to stop to try to charge my moves ...
And the ABCD whiff very often on launcher, i had never sucess to do cr.B,cr.B,b.B,ABCD.
I'm trying to use cr.B,(A),cr.B,CD but the SDM whiff very often.
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j.D,s.C,b~f.BD,b~f.C,b.D,b~f.C,d~u.B
I have lot of trouble at doing this combo, because the b.D can hit at various height and i don't know which is the better (the higher i guess) and i must walk a little bit before the second b~f.C, so i'm missing the charge timing very often and doing a far/close C roughly 99% times :( (i sucessfully landed the the second b~f.C one time on a hundred test in a row)
Yeah, I can't hit that second b~f + C at all, when I walk forward my charge gets lost.
Also, in the wiki, I found some weird stuff:
"1 Power Gauge
- d.Bx2 > b+B, d~u+B > (DC) qcb+BD, b~f+A, b~f+A, d~u+D "
When I did qcb+AC it connected, while the BD version shot out too far. Is that a typo?
Also:
"- d.Bx2 > b+B, d~u+B > (DC) b~f+C, ABCD "
That b~f+C doesnt hit them after the DCed d~b+B, they are too far. Has anyone connected that yet?
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We'll have to ask the resident Ash user, CMD.Duc. I'll get him to check this thread.
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j.D,s.C,b~f.BD,b~f.C,b.D,b~f.C,d~u.B
I have lot of trouble at doing this combo, because the b.D can hit at various height and i don't know which is the better (the higher i guess) and i must walk a little bit before the second b~f.C, so i'm missing the charge timing very often and doing a far/close C roughly 99% times :( (i sucessfully landed the the second b~f.C one time on a hundred test in a row)
Do you have any tips on this combo?
If you're getting s.C that means you are either press C too late or more commonly you are pressing forward too early. Try to press forward later. Before doing this make sure you can do walking b~f+C by itself consistently
Atm i'm doing :
j.D,s.C,b~f.BD,b~f.C,b.D,d~u.D which is much easier to connect.
Moreover i just miss every sans culotte launcher/combo, if it was quarter circle move it would be easier to me because i just can't sucess to stop to try to charge my moves ...
And the ABCD whiff very often on launcher, i had never sucess to do cr.B,cr.B,b.B,ABCD.
I'm trying to use cr.B,(A),cr.B,CD but the SDM whiff very often.
You can only do one B into b.B then ABCD. No need to do a shortcut since you have plenty of time during the b.B to input ABCD after.
Also, in the wiki, I found some weird stuff:
"1 Power Gauge
- d.Bx2 > b+B, d~u+B > (DC) qcb+BD, b~f+A, b~f+A, d~u+D "
When I did qcb+AC it connected, while the BD version shot out too far. Is that a typo?
Also:
"- d.Bx2 > b+B, d~u+B > (DC) b~f+C, ABCD "
That b~f+C doesnt hit them after the DCed d~b+B, they are too far. Has anyone connected that yet?
The combo should be with qcb+AC.
As for the second combo that's corner only.
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Ash's corner stun combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOwqgbcmLEw), requires 2 stocks and 60% drive meter. Apparently, if you can land a j.CD in the corner you can do it with 1 stock and 50% drive. Perhaps one our local Ash expert CMD.Duc could transcribe the combo. EDIT: Ok I transcibed it but if CMD.Duc or Mr Kof could double check for me that'll be great (particularly the strengths of the specials).
So I've been wondering this for a while, in the video it says that there's an updated version that uses less stock, anyone have any idea what it is?
Since I'm editting an old post I'm not sure who will see this but w/e. It appears the new stun combo of choice is as follows.
*denotes walking trick/run first
j.D, cl/cr.C, b/f+BD, b/f+C, b+D, b/f+C*, (d/u+B (DC) b/f+A)x2, b/f+C*, b+D, ABCD*, (d/u+B, b+D, f+D, empty cancel b+B, f+C)x4, b+D, d/u+C.
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Ash's corner stun combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOwqgbcmLEw), requires 2 stocks and 60% drive meter. Apparently, if you can land a j.CD in the corner you can do it with 1 stock and 50% drive. Perhaps one our local Ash expert CMD.Duc could transcribe the combo. EDIT: Ok I transcibed it but if CMD.Duc or Mr Kof could double check for me that'll be great (particularly the strengths of the specials).
So I've been wondering this for a while, in the video it says that there's an updated version that uses less stock, anyone have any idea what it is?
Since I'm editting an old post I'm not sure who will see this but w/e. It appears the new stun combo of choice is as follows.
*denotes walking trick/run first
j.D, cl/cr.C, b/f+BD, b/f+C, b+D, b/f+C*, (d/u+B (DC) b/f+A)x2, b/f+C*, b+D, ABCD*, (d/u+B, b+D, f+D, empty cancel b+B, f+C)x4, b+D, d/u+C.
This is the video that requires only 1 super meter to stun. However to be 100%, you need to start with 2 meters.
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I hope it will be helpful :
KOFXIII Ash Sans-Culotte Tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCqN-S81Ng&feature=youtu.be#ws)
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Sharnt these are great! With your permission, can we add these to the wiki? EDIT:Front paged.
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Obly you can.
It was made for beginners.
If you have comments or things to change please say it now, i'll reupload a new version because i can here the beginning of the 'twelve' at last and it piss me off because i don't hear it when i play the original version on my computer.
Especially things like grammar, reading times etc ...
Because i asked some friends and we weren't sure.
At least thanks for the cheers kane.
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First page updated with console changes.
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Console changes:
- (shown in video) All versions of Genie stay on the screen longer.
- (shown in video) Sans-culotte (ABCD) has had its damage scaling adjusted. It scales more overall.
- Floreal (forward) (b+B) has faster startup and can be comboed from light attacks.
- B version of Nivose (d_u+K) has had its invincibility increased. The invincibility ends as soon as the hitbox appears.
- EX Genie now knocks away while retaining its juggling properties
- (shown in video) Germinal now takes no gauge
- (shown in video) Thermidor’s startup is faster
- (shown in video) The version of EX Genie done using both kicks tracks the opponent.
Yamamoto – Genie remains on the screen for a longer time. It may be interesting to use Genie as a wall of defense as Ventose can now be used while Genie is present. Although Sans Culotte scales more frequently, please try using Germinal as that no longer requires stocks itself.
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Germinal requires no stock now? = HOLY SHIT
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Even though it wouldn't be the least bit practical, I wish they had made Germinal MAX-cancelable. It would look awesome.
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True. Though a move that cancel's the opponent's specials and, meter for 10sec plus a max cancel might be a bit too much lol. (Although after seeing Iori 98' I'm all for that idea).
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The main advantage of this is to let you to do a free okizeme on your opponent wakeup since he can't do anything except roll or guard, so you can have with a genie a true 50/50 guard trap (if he rolls you should option select one roll side and the other one the opponent will roll before you).
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It's definitely cool that there will be more sans coullette combos ending with germinal. It taking no meter is probably the coolest things snk did for this character. I'm definitely going to enjoy this.
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It's definitely cool that there will be more sans coullette combos ending with germinal. It taking no meter is probably the coolest things snk did for this character. I'm definitely going to enjoy this.
The cost isn't the main reason, the Sans Culotte have been nerf on his damages a lot and the damage reduce is too high to make it worth the corner ending.
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Ah, that makes sense.
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How can I do the walking forward ;bk~ ;fd ;a/ ;c in combos? I'm not sure how it needs to be performed properly for corner combos.
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I've been playing Ash as an insanely lame Guile-esque type zoner. Is this a competent way to play him? I've been using him at point, focusing on zoning with his shots. If the opponent does get in, I can hit-confirm his flash kick with cr.lks.
Thoughts on this strategy? It's worked so far on my local friends who also play. They hate me for it, but it works great.
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How can I do the walking forward ;bk~ ;fd ;a/ ;c in combos? I'm not sure how it needs to be performed properly for corner combos.
You just do b~f+C but you delay the C press until after your character takes a small step forward.
I've been playing Ash as an insanely lame Guile-esque type zoner. Is this a competent way to play him? I've been using him at point, focusing on zoning with his shots. If the opponent does get in, I can hit-confirm his flash kick with cr.lks.
Thoughts on this strategy? It's worked so far on my local friends who also play. They hate me for it, but it works great.
That's an alright way to play him. Generally when I play Ash I push them into the corner whether it be from running up after knockdowns or Sans Culottes carries. After that you can rush them down with hop CD, D, C, whatever you want and hit confirm into big combos. Generally before I get them to the corner I try to play a slow zoning game but don't forget that Ash has a decent rushdown game. He can charge fireballs so quickly that almost any normal you press can be cancelled into a fireball.
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Anyone complete Ash's mission number 8? If so you are godlike
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Germinal doesn't seem to connect in the corner !
can anyone tell me why ?
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During aerial juggles or, in general?
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During juggle
and i mean Germinal not Germinal Caprice
i used to do it in XI
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During juggle
and i mean Germinal not Germinal Caprice
i used to do it in XI
What juggle is it? You doing it too early or too late?
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Germinal doesn't seem to connect in the corner !
can anyone tell me why ?
You're probably not doing it when the opponent is high enough.
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Time to move on to the console-specific threads: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1642.0 (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1642.0)