Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Maxima => Topic started by: Mr.Minionman on August 05, 2016, 02:39:04 AM
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(http://)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK
Throws
Dynamite Drop - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;c
Drop Bomb - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;d
Command Normals
M-9 Maxima Missile (Prototype) - ;df + ;c
Special Moves
M-4 Vapor Cannon - ;qcb + ;a/ ;c (*)
Air M-4 Vapor Cannon - (in air) ;qcb + ;b/ ;d (*)
M-19 Blitz Cannon - ;dp + ;b/ ;d (*)
Maxima Press - ;hcb + ;b/ ;d (*)
Maxima Press (Follow-Up) - ;qcb + ;a/ ;c
Super Special Moves
Double Vapor Cannon - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (!)
M-24 Atomic Laser - ;qcf ;qcf + ;b/ ;d (!)
Climax Super Special Move
MX-III CIWS Launcher - ;hcb ;hcb + ;a ;c
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Made a quick video with some beginner Maxima combos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIIrJxRvw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PIIrJxRvw8)
Here's some of the combos I've found so far. I removed some of the redundant ones further down. Sorry for any notation errors. Feel free to suggest more, I'm fairly new to the franchise so don't totally know everything.
Another note, cl.D can be used as a starter for a lot of these, but I didn't list it because the range on it is really short. It does more damage overall, but just feels more inconsistent.
Meterless:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A (243 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df. C xx qcb A (218 dmg)
cl.C (1), df.C xx hcb B~qcb A (221 dmg, corner carry)
Corner Only:
CD > df.C xx qcb C (231 dmg)
CD > df.C xx dp D (263 dmg)
j.CD (Counter Hit) df.C xx dp D (323 dmg)
1 bar:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf A/C (403 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df. C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf A/C (378 dmg)
CD > qcf~qcf B/D (222 dmg)
qcb P (Counter Hit) xx qcf~qcf K (304 dmg)
1 bar (Max Mode):
cl.C (1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C (1), df.C xx qcb AC > dp BD (379 dmg midscreen, 401 corner)
**Note: You can do 2 hits of cl.C to start with for more damage, but it's more difficult to link after the Max Mode Activation because of how far you are
cl.C (1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C (1), df.C xx qcb AC > hcb BD~qcb A (396 dmg, corner carry)
Corner Only:
CD > df.C xx qcb C xx qcf~qcf B/D (358 dmg - timing of super will affect damage/number of hits)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C xx dp BD (419 dmg, corner/close to corner only)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C > hcb BD~qcb A (434 dmg, corner/close to corner only, delay df.C and Maxima Press to connect)
2 bar:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC (493 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC (468 dmg)
CD > qcf~qcf BD (348 dmg)
qcb P (Counter Hit) xx qcf~qcf BD (448 dmg)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC (528 dmg, midscreen only)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx hcb B xx qcf~qcf AC (455 dmg, corner carry)
2 bar (Corner Only):
CD > df. C xx qcb C xx qcf~qcf AC (463 dmg) **Note - delay cancel into qcb C or Super to connect
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C xx qcf~qcf BD (527 dmg, corner/close to corner only)
3 bar:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf A xx qcf~qcf BD (617 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df.C xx qcf~qcf A xx qcf~qcf BD (592 dmg)
cl.C(1), df.C xx hcb B xx qcf~qcf A xx qcf~qcf BD (580 dmg, corner carry)
CD > hcb~hcb AC (472 dmg)
Corner Only:
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C > qcb A xx hcb~hcb AC (642 dmg, corner/close to corner only, delay last Vapor Cannon to connect)
CD > df.C xx qcb C xx qcf~qcf B/D xx qcf~qcf AC (529 dmg - timing of super will affect damage/number of hits)
4 bar:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf A xx hcb~hcb AC (726 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df.C xx qcf~qcf A xx hcb~hcb AC (701 dmg)
cl.C(1), df.C xx hcb B xx qcf~qcf A xx qcf~qcf BD (697 dmg, corner carry)
Corner Only:
CD > df.C xx qcb C xx qcf~qcf B/D xx hcb~hcb AC (607 dmg - timing of supers will affect damage/number of hits)
5 bar:
cl.C, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC xx hcb~hcb AC (792 dmg)
cr.B, cl.A, df.C xx qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC (767 dmg)
cl.C(1), df.C xx hcb B xx qcf~qcf AC xx hcb~hcb AC (769 dmg, corner carry)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > qcb A xx qcf~qcf AC xx hcb~hcb AC (773 dmg, midscreen only)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx hcb B xx qcf~qcf AC xx hcb~hcb AC (700 dmg, corner carry)
Corner Only:
CD > df. C xx qcb C xx qcf~qcf AC xx hcb~hcb AC (731 dmg) **Note - delay cancel into qcb C or Super to connect
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C xx qcf~qcf BD xx hcb~hcb AC (742 dmg, corner/close to corner only)
cl.C(1), df.C xx MAX > cl.C(1), df.C xx qcb AC > df. C > qcb A xx qcf~qcf BD xx hcb~hcb AC (832 dmg, corner/close to corner only, delay last Vapor Cannon to connect)
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Good stuff man. And yeah, cl. D is used either as a punish against something like an uppercut, or after a cross up.
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Nice work on the combos! The biggest issue I was having was finding anything MAX-mode cancels could do that would out class a non-MAX mode combo and it never occurred to me to cancel the 1st hit of cl.HP into Command Normal. So thanks for that info.
Still with the one corner combo doing more damage though with similar starters I think we'll see more raw activation with Maxima rather than MAX-mode cancels as the EX moves by themselves are very nice and it's one of the times when the damage is just easier to get from the non-MAX mode cancels that it's not worth the possible extra combo drop points. But still going to at least get those corner combos down, and maybe a couple others for the occasional style points ;)
I'm still going to put together a video, like have so far with Kukri, Love, and Muimui on Maxima's normal's, moves, etc to go a little in depth with those, but I'll refer to your posts and video for the combo parts so there won't be so much of me fumbling around trying to do them live.
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So here's the work I did on his normals, moves, and some other various notes while I was in the lab with Maxima.
Here's also the video companion I did explaining these as well (will link once uploaded): https://youtu.be/VUBp8UcN2R4
To talk about Maxima's neutral game we have to talk about Guard Points (sometimes referred to as Armor). Some normals, specials, and supers have GPs that will block a hit while performing that action. Maxima has several of these. It important to note that all of the grounded moves that have them will NOT block low hits or grounded fireballs. It seems in my testing so far it also only good for one hit, though I have seem other moves like Gang-il's Shakka Shuu absorb multiple hits, so I could be wrong about that point. I just have not seen evidence yet that Maxima's get more then one hit.
Any move that has a Guard Point I'll note with the abbreviation GP.
Normals
st.LP: +1 on block, cancels, and Anti Air
st.LK: -1 on block, poke
st.HP: unsafe, GP, Anti Air
st.HK: -4, GP, poke
cl.LP: +1 on block, cancels, use to tick / combo into Command Throw
cl.LK: -3 on block, cancels, not found any use
cl.HP: -2 on block, 2 hits, cancels either hit
cl.HK: -4 on block, cancels
cr.LP: Even on block, cancels
cr.LK: +1 on block
cr.HP: -2 on block, cancels
cr.HK: unsafe
CD: unsafe
j.CD: very plus on block, drop kick, the extension makes it great for anti-airs
j.LP: cross up, decent nj.Air to Air
j.LK: fj.Air to Air
j.HP: cross up, body splash, very large hit box so it can be very ambiguous (my favorite normal in the game so far, just lots of fun)
j.HK: cross up, downward angle jump
Throws:
Forward Throw - leaves you at full screen away, except when the opponent is already against the wall or close to it
Back Throw - Hard KD though that's just to cover Maxima's recovery from the throw, left at a little less then round start distance
Command Normals: df.HP - Up angled attack, can be used as an Anti Air and combo extender. Be aware there are certain ranges this will miss as a combo extender, you’ll need to learn these ranges so you don’t drop combos. It is however still fairly safe at around minus 2-3 on block. Suggestion would be at the ranges it would drop to use cr.HP instead with an empty cancel of the L.Vapor Cannon. Just make sure to confirm the cr.HP hit before completing the cancel.
Specials
M-4 Vapor Cannon - qcb+P - [110/110/117] - Power Punch
Heavy: GP
EX: Causes a wallbounce
Air M-4 Vapor Cannon - in air qcb+P - [110/100/134] - Power Punch in the air
EX: GP
M-19 Blitz Cannon - DP+K - [150/150/192] Flys up and catches the opponent and throws them back down. Works in essence like a DP.
- The distance traveled is the same for Light and Heavy, EX travels further
- EX is fully invincible, has an additional hit immediately on startup
Maxima Press - hcb+K (follow up qcb+P) [70/70/142 - 117/117/187 with the follow up]
Light: Command Throw, does not move, fully invincible on startup
Heavy: Dashes forward into a Command Throw, longer startup then Light
EX: Can be blocked, not a command throw, but starts up much faster than Heavy and still dashes.
Supers
Double Vapor Cannon - qcfx2+P [200 / 318] - Super version of the Vapor Cannon Attack
GP for both versions
Atomic Laser - qcfx2+K [177/330] - Beam Attack
MAX is invincible on startup
Climax
MX-III CIWS Launcher - hcbx2+PP - [470] - Dash attack when hit starts animation that confirms all damage
- GP
- Has a long reach on the start of it, but dashes forward if that doesn’t reach
- Still is vulnerable to lows and ground fireballs.
Side Notes about Max Mode canceling with Maxima
Maxima may not want to MAX Mode cancel for several reasons:
- Max Mode cancels do less damage than non-Max Mode combos that spend the same amount of bar with the exception of very specific corner combos.
- This is due to only EX Vapor Cannon being the only extender from a wall bounce. All other EX moves will end the combo and you can’t just chain EX Vapor Cannons.
- The only way to cancel into a super is using the wall bounce from EX Vapor Cannon or using the bounce to hit a normal Vapor Cannon and cancel from that as you cannot cancel a Super from an EX move directly.
- Low light confirms can cancel into Command Normal to provide combo paths to the high damage combos without a MAX Mode cancel. Furthermore if the low light hit confirm starts out far enough where the Command Normal would not connect, there is no cancelable normal that you can confirm into by using MAX Mode cancel to continue the combo.
- EX moves Maxima have in general are far better than their normal counterparts by a larger margin than I’ve seen then other characters I’ve dabbled with the lab so far
From this I’ve concluded that typically if you are going to MAX Mode you are going to raw activate it to gain access to his high powered tools rather than canceling into it to provide a higher powered combo.
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Activating max and getting the cl.C follow-up is still a huge pain in the ass with this character. At least activating straight into EX Vapor Cannon seems to be pretty consistent
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Something I've been thinking about too is that MAX Mode has and additional cost, while in it you build absolutely no meter. This includes meter you would normally build while being hit, not just meter you build connecting (hit/block) hits on your opponent or using specials. So the real cost of MAX Mode is actually more then 1 bar.
Of course there are a lot of characters out there that do get a significant boost in damage with MAX Mode cancel combos, Maxima just isn't one of them. At least not that I've seen yet.
That said his supers confirm really easily either with a Vapon Cannon connect or a Maxima Press especially if you are going across the map to hit to smash the opponent against the wall. That is where I found Maxima to be very dangerous. A cleverly timed Maxima Press will take away 74% of your opponents life for 5 bars
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Remember though, that you can MAX mode off of any normal. Armor through a poke with far C or D then MAX for an easy confirm. They still have armor right?
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That they do. The issue is what you get for doing it? I would have to test to see if at those ranges you can MAX cancel and have enough time to get a close anything to continue the combo with. If so, that seems good, two more ways to off load the bars built up over the match. If not, not sure the meter to get 1/2 a MAX Mode is worth generally speaking (I'm sure there is specific situations there are).
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After running the circuit characters, I've ended up back at the big cyborg as a solid anchor for my main team. Seems to continue to fit both my style and my current execution level. Some things I've been noticing:
- More guard points then I originally found during my lab work for the write up.
- cr.HP seems to have one that works with both upper and lows, need to test
- st.HK seems to have one that works with lows as well that I didn't see before meaning I might have assume GPs with Maxima was upper body hits only, but might be case by case
- Will be heading back to the lab to find all of them and I'll update my post above accordingly
- j.HP - the body splash, is ridiculously easy to convert off of. That's nothing new but just to call it out again because it's just that good.
- At certain ranges 2-hits of st.HP will cause the df.HP command normal to whiff ending the combo and could leave you open to command throws or fast supers. Either I need to learn those ranges, or it might for consistency be better to always cancel off the 1st hit of st.HP into df.HP, will need to lab.
- It can be tempting to dump all your bars with how easy it is to do so with Maxima, but this doesn't mean you should. Having a bar to raw activate MAX or 2 to have access to an invincible move (MAX Atomic Laser) can be useful. Short version, don't spend it all unless you are going to finish off their team. Something that is probably true for most of the cast.
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Some of my own two cents:
I was going to make the point that Coliflowerz did. I've messed with it a bunch in training mode and it seems like maxima doesn't have trouble comboing off of a max cancelled GP normal, so I'd say go nuts with that tactic.
Non-EX Vapor Cannon has the nifty feature of causing a wall splat on counterhit, so it might be good to fish for hits with, similar to his GP normals. If you don't cancel it with a super, you can still link into one after the fact, making it a pretty easy confirm. However, the heavy version recovers slower, limiting your link choices to either EX beam super, or your climax. Furthermore, if you hit with heavy vapor cannon at its absolute maximum range, EX beam super won't reach the opponent. Usually you'll end up hitting them a bit closer than that, though.
When it comes to comboing off of cl.HP, avoiding the second hit of it by cancelling the first one isn't just important to be able to follow up if you max cancel. The second hit also just seems to prorate your combos straight to shit. So keep that in mind when trying out combos. Compare damage between getting the first hit, and both hits.
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You have to be just on the outside of close range for any far standing normal, C or D, to connect into another normal.
Tagging them with a traditional max cancel might not work. However, there's a few things you can do. On any grounded hit, you can go into EX Maxima Press from max range or EX Vapor cannon using MC Bypass. You score a solid hit and do the motion, but press BDC or ACB. This will make you instantly cancel your run into the special.
I recommend doing EX Vapor Cannon. You could potentially follow it up with EX Maxima Press to end the combo or hit df+C into super for the finish.
Far st. ;c, (delay) qcb+ ;a ;c ;b (hold ACB for better effect)*, run, df+ ;c, dp+ ;b ;d - 334 dmg, 1 bar
Far st. ;c " ".... hcb+ ;b ;d (delay) - 356 dmg, 1bar
Far st. ;c " ".... qcfx2+ ;a ;c(delay) - 446 dmg, 2 bar
Far st. ;c " "....qcfx2 ;b ;d (delay) - 443 dmg, 2 bar
Far st. ;c " "....hcb+ ;a ;c - 552 dmg, 3 bars
Far st. ;c " "....qcfx2 ;b ;d (last hit, 23 hits), hcbx2+ ;a ;c = 688 dmg, 5 bars**
Far st. ;c " "....qcfx2 + ;a ;c, hcb+ ;a ;c = 694 dmg, 5 bars
*Note* MC Bypass - Canceling the run animation immediately into an EX special. Similar to HD Bypass in KOFXIII.
Performed - Normal...(special motion), BC(A or D). Holding the button and canceling the normal late into Max Mode makes this easier.
https://youtu.be/WgeQVJijSXw - Special thanks to coliflowerz
**Note** Each hit after the 20th hit is an extra ten damage. If you cancel early, you just lose 10 damage per hit.
P.S. - Maxima's cl.B is a standing low hit. It's also normal and special cancel-able. cl.A hits crouching blockers. You can do cl.A, cl.B, df+C, special as a blockstring.
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Since every one of Maxima's specials and supers causes hard knockdowns, there should be lot's of setups to be made.
Though all I've gotten down is:
corner combo...qcb+A -> whiff s.A -> full jump C safejump vs 3f reversals.
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Anybody got any tips for Maxima's wake up game? I find I'm having a hard time dealing with certain characters when I get knocked down. K' is especially difficult. If he knocks me down he just Ein Triggers in my face or some other shit and I don't have any other choice other than to block or try to roll out. The frustration is getting to the point where I'm thinking about dropping him altogether. At least in 13 I could EX air grab on wake up if someone was too aggressive.
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Unless they're jumping and it's not a safe jump, he doesn't really have any wake up game. You could abuse the fact that you can backdash or roll backwards on wakeup. The roll extends throw invul and rolls are faster to recover/go farther. Backdash is airborne frame 1 so air reset if they go high, whiff if they go low for a meaty. Backdash is better in the corner.
He suffers from havin his only good reversal, his DP, behind max mode. He's too slow.
If they're close and not respecting your space though, use B grab on wakeup. They'll get scooped up for their mistake.
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Frame Data: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2WAxkcvfTKdeGQ2Ri01Ukhla28
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Man, they really ruined his guard point game. 4F of guardpoint for d.C explains a lot. 3F of guardpoint for st.CD? That's so ridiculous.
Before I forget, thank you!
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I went back to find more to update Maxima's guard-points:
• Far C (Upper Body): Frame 4 to 10
• Far D (Upper Body): Frame 11 to 17
• cr. C (Upper Body): Frame 4 to 10
• St. CD (Upper Body): Frame 15 to 18
• qcb+C: (Upper Body): Frame 14 to 25
• dp+BD (Upper body): Frame 1 to 7
• Air qcb+AC (Full Body): Frame 5 to 14
• qcf(x2)+A/C (Upper Body): Frame 1 to 11
• qcf(x2)+AC (Upper Body): Frame 1 to 12
• Climax (Upper Body): Frame 1 to 11
There maybe more, but the ones above are the only ones I can find for this guy with my self-made guard-point guide. I'm looking for guard-points for the whole cast right now.
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Maxima winquotes
English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=witkre--Ilk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=witkre--Ilk)
Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB5dDax4h2g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB5dDax4h2g)