Dream Cancel Forum
Other Fighting Games => General Fighting Game Discussion => Topic started by: solidshark on April 13, 2011, 09:47:36 AM
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Someone once described actors who's careers have fallen from grace - next step - whoring yourself. Kind of seems like that's what Capcom is doing. I've never complained when they started doing it (X-Men vs Street Fighter, MSH vs SF, MvC1), I'm still not complaining so much considering most of the versus games released have done all right. They've taken on Marvel, SNK, Namco, Tatsunoko, rumored that they were going to take Arcsys, and they're about to do Namco again. The one big problem I see (the same problem fans of the 90's and early 00 era sees) is older franchises being neglected that could be great and evolved instead of forgotten, including Darkstalkers, Rival Schools/Project Justice, Warzard/Red Earth, Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, or even the idea of new IPs.
I think someday they should just release "Capcom Takes on the World," partially because we've all seen it coming, and also because once they've released that (plus 3 or 4 revisions), they can move on (and yes, I know that means the fighting genre will have to not disappear again). But if you had to choose between more versus, or Capcom-centric fighters, which would you rather have? I did consider adding the option of "Why not both?" in polling, but I doubt we'll ever be that lucky. So, what are your thoughts?
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From my point of view, crossover are pure fanservice. CvT and MvC maybe are exceptions because neither Tatsunoko nor Marvel are fighting games, but for example SFxT looks horribly and wierd. Is not an SF, but is not a Tekken either and looks crazy. Like if was not a serious game but a just a gag. MvC looks in the same way, like a not serious game, just a crazy/broken/cheap/casual game where people get mad smashing buttons and canceling ultras. I know in terms of money and popularity these games are great, everybody was hyped for MvC and is hyped now for SFxT. They are very mainstream games that sell well. But in terms of quality I think they are dirty and cheap, and don't contribute to fighting games scene in the same good way that individual titles do (I mean no-corssovers). I always prefer play SF and Tekken like 2 games separately, not together.
I know everybody says CvS was a great game, and I agree. But even with that, I prefer play KOF and SF seperately.
So, while I understand crossover are very comercial, a good way to unify communities and popular games which many people would like, I prefer developers get focused in develope great individual titles with high quality and fresh new gameplay/characters/stories which can enrich fighting games scene or which make evolve and grow one specific franchise.
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MvC looks in the same way, like a not serious game, just a crazy/broken/cheap/casual game where people get mad smashing buttons and canceling ultras.
yeah but the hate messages are priceless :)) as for capcom ... i do not care too much.
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I have no problem with Capcom doing crossovers with comic book companies, but when is company vs company game, things start to get horribly wrong.
Let's look at three company crossover games.
1. Capcom vs SNK 2. I just don't like this game. Personally I don't like the fact of having these "grooves". Is it just me or does the S,N and K grooves feel inferior when compared to C,A and P grooves? And why C grooves has roll ability? Never seen that in any Capcom game....
2. SVC Chaos. It was my first SNK game. I like the idea of having single fighting system. Both sides of the roster are used equally, except SNK side is used bit more.
3. Street Fighter x Tekken. Okay... Two franchises clash. Street Fighter is 2D-fighter and Tekken is 3D-fighter. They are very different. How does this even work?! What I've seen from early gameplay videos, game seems to use engine that looks one that is used is Street Fighter IV.
In every case fans of the company who made the title are going to be happy. They like when they get chance to beat other companie's character. They just have the advantage over the other. Fans of the other side on the other hand complain how inferior their characters compared to other. These type of games just doesn't work.
That is why I just ignore them.
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soon EVO will become Cap-VO muah ha ha, a tournament for capcom fighterrs made by capcom before you know it the other fighting games will sease to exist
Depends, SF x T looks good ,like the new ajustment they did to the characters, but im not feeling the tag system it just lack lusters especial when considering mk9 ,TTT 2 and possibility of T x sf will probably be tag base ,and theres not much to differentiate there tag mechanics from the others wich is boring
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I have no problem with Capcom doing crossovers with comic book companies, but when is company vs company game, things start to get horribly wrong.
Let's look at three company crossover games.
1. Capcom vs SNK 2. I just don't like this game. Personally I don't like the fact of having these "grooves". Is it just me or does the S,N and K grooves feel inferior when compared to C,A and P grooves? And why C grooves has roll ability? Never seen that in any Capcom game....
I said the same thing, til I noticed the "dash" in JJBA... It kinda works just like the KoF roll, but the animations are different... P groove was the worse hands down though, and no one really used S because people deemed it "cheesy" and it only benefitted grapplers anyway imo... K groove only truly fell to A groove, and it depended on the character... CvS2 could've been better, especially by adding certain links that are in KoF, like Ryo's ;dn ;b to ;dn ;c . Plus they should've balanced their side more... Felt like MvC2 with only a few characters being played most times...
3. Street Fighter x Tekken. Okay... Two franchises clash. Street Fighter is 2D-fighter and Tekken is 3D-fighter. They are very different. How does this even work?! What I've seen from early gameplay videos, game seems to use engine that looks one that is used is Street Fighter IV.
It's the exact engine, but the graphics are slightly buttered up to look crazier...
I knew there was gonna eventually be something like this when the Namco x Capcom rpg was released back in the day (that game was too fun)... People who knew about it wondered if they were gonna make it into a fighter, and it had the iconic characters and their specials as well... I'm kinda glad to see this, but its still in the early stages, so seeing how jagged the animation is makes me want to cringe, but not just yet... I'm actually wanting to see how TxSF will play...
If Capcom were to ever take on Arcsys, Arcsys should do the animation, point blank period...
Anyway, I'm all for VS titles, as long as there's heart and soul put into the game... I don't think heart and soul was put in MvC3... Sure, they wanted to make it balanced and blah blah blah, but it's not the same as say, Alpha 2, Vampire Savior 3, or even XvSF... I'm not saying its not a fun game, its just not a fun game that really feels "complete"... I feel like that "Everyone vs Everyone" on Mugen is more well thought out than MvC3 imo...
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From my point of view, crossover are pure fanservice. CvT and MvC maybe are exceptions because neither Tatsunoko nor Marvel are fighting games, but for example SFxT looks horribly and wierd. Is not an SF, but is not a Tekken either and looks crazy. Like if was not a serious game but a just a gag. MvC looks in the same way, like a not serious game, just a crazy/broken/cheap/casual game where people get mad smashing buttons and canceling ultras. I know in terms of money and popularity these games are great, everybody was hyped for MvC and is hyped now for SFxT. They are very mainstream games that sell well. But in terms of quality I think they are dirty and cheap, and don't contribute to fighting games scene in the same good way that individual titles do (I mean no-corssovers). I always prefer play SF and Tekken like 2 games separately, not together.
So you say that you are fan a SC IV, yet for you mvc3 is a cheap/broken/button mashing game?
I'm not saying that SC IV is that kind of game, but honestly, this is as ridicolous as VF fans who said that tekken is a button masher, I mean sure, you can do fancy things just mashing buttons on MVC3, SC IV, and Tekken, but when you play with guys that know how to play, while you know how to play, you will see that isn't that broken, or that in fact, the broken system is what made the game (IT'S MAHVEL BABY!)
Now, I honestly don't understand this debate, I can't see how making a crossover defeats the purpose of create and standalone, I mean, we're in a friggin KOF forum, the game that was the versus of SNK back in the day, which later evolved, since always was an stand alone game. At this point the versus series is just an stand alone game, that was never designed for marvel you can replace spiderman with superman, and in the end, the game will be the same, just like if you pick SF IV and put marvel characters, the gameplay will be the same
SF vs Tekken is still SF IV to me, but just with some tweaks trying to ''make it feel more like tekken'' even though so far has garnered bad feedback, maybe because to begin both system should have never been mixed (Even though I will still give the benefit of the doubt) but so far, looks bad, I would have prefered to just use the SF iv system and put Tekken Characters, but at the same time, I hated CVS because it felts like a street fighter game just adding some SNK characters instead of feeling like a true crossover game, but I honestly believe that KOF and SF are too VERY different who should had never been mixed (would have been cool to see, I don't know, SF III featuring KOF, and KOF 98 featuring street fighter to say something, or maybe create a new system from zero) but if I had a hard time believing that KOF and SF should be mixed, I less think that SF vs Tekken should be mixed, just like will be retarded to mix blazblue with soul calibur, or virtua fighter with kof
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I actually like their crossover games. MvC2 ate up countless quarters, despite me not really knowing how to play it.
It would be nice if other companies had the guts to do it (though if you look at MKvsDC, I think the crossover thing is best left to Capcom).
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It would be nice if other companies had the guts to do it (though if you look at MKvsDC, I think the crossover thing is best left to Capcom).
Don't necessarily agree with that. To me, though it's inter-company, KOF is still the best crossover series ever. To pit Fatal Fury vs Art of Fighting, include Psycho Soliders and Ikari Warriors, and create a brand-new line of heroes, and keep it relatively fresh and interesting after 13 games with an ongoing story (most times)....speaks for itself for me
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It would be nice if other companies had the guts to do it (though if you look at MKvsDC, I think the crossover thing is best left to Capcom).
All i gotta say is this:
* Capcom Fighting Jam --------- horrible broken crossup with reused sprites.
* Capcom Fighting Allstars----- had potential, but was canceled and in turn we got CFJ.
* MvC2----------------------------- reused sprites, no tweaking whatsoever so what was left was like 6 playable characters out of 56 (or 64 I can't remember).
* CvS2------------------------------ A-Sagat, Blanka, Vega, Sakura, Ken or some other crazy combination with one of those characters as anchor. Plus only 4 SNK characters were actually strong.
* MvC3------------------------------ starting to look like MvC2, plus more random things happen. It's like looking at a refreshing oasis, but the closer you get to it, the more you realize its a puddle of disease-infested urine.
I'm not a Capcom hater, I just know that those are examples of what they had to offer and those offerings aren't as great... There's no heart put in these games by them... Hell, even some in the Dreamcast era were like that, and I love that time frame because fighting games were king next to jrpgs... But Capcom is really feeding the fans', not the players' desires with these fighters now... NRS on the other hand, has actually managed to hit both nails on the mark with this MK9...
Cross overs are nice, but they never quite make the other side evenly matched imo... Yeah Solidshark is right, KOF has been holding it down as the original cross up fighter...
But real talk, I want "Data East vs Capcom: Age of Baloonken" to come out!!! Karnov vs Ken would be too dope!!!
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It would be nice if other companies had the guts to do it (though if you look at MKvsDC, I think the crossover thing is best left to Capcom).
Don't necessarily agree with that. To me, though it's inter-company, KOF is still the best crossover series ever. To pit Fatal Fury vs Art of Fighting, include Psycho Soliders and Ikari Warriors, and create a brand-new line of heroes, and keep it relatively fresh and interesting after 13 games with an ongoing story (most times)....speaks for itself for me
I've never thought of KOF as a crossover series, really... despite all the evidence you're giving me proves it is such
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All i gotta say is this:
* Capcom Fighting Jam --------- horrible broken crossup with reused sprites.
* Capcom Fighting Allstars----- had potential, but was canceled and in turn we got CFJ.
Ono's first two fighting games
* MvC2----------------------------- reused sprites, no tweaking whatsoever so what was left was like 6 playable characters out of 56 (or 64 I can't remember).
actually around 20 characters out of 56 quit looking at it as a 1v1.
People that don't play MvC2 forget about
Spiral
Cammy
Juggz
War Machine
Ruby Heart
BB Hood
Anak
Omega Red
Dhalism
These characters are very strong contenders (even on point) in MvC2. Throw in the top 6 and assist only characters and thats over 20 characters.
* CvS2------------------------------ A-Sagat, Blanka, Vega, Sakura, Ken or some other crazy combination with one of those characters as anchor. Plus only 4 SNK characters were actually strong.
Mai
Vice
Rock
Kyo
Yamazaki
Todo
Nakomaru
Need more SNK characters?
* MvC3------------------------------ starting to look like MvC2, plus more random things happen. It's like looking at a refreshing oasis, but the closer you get to it, the more you realize its a puddle of disease-infested urine.
Niitsuma is good at producing games like that.
I'm not a Capcom hater, I just know that those are examples of what they had to offer and those offerings aren't as great... There's no heart put in these games by them... Hell, even some in the Dreamcast era were like that, and I love that time frame because fighting games were king next to jrpgs... But Capcom is really feeding the fans', not the players' desires with these fighters now... NRS on the other hand, has actually managed to hit both nails on the mark with this MK9...
Welcome to the new Capcom with all the people that knew what they were doing gone(even the artists).
I miss Dirty Secret :(
Cross overs are nice, but they never quite make the other side evenly matched imo... Yeah Solidshark is right, KOF has been holding it down as the original cross up fighter...
Capcom ran out of ideas to use the Marvel License in fighting games after Marvel Super Heroes.
But real talk, I want "Data East vs Capcom: Age of Baloonken" to come out!!! Karnov vs Ken would be too dope!!!
It already happened in court Data East won (Data East could of counter sued Capcom about the magic series of normals).
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actually around 20 characters out of 56 quit looking at it as a 1v1.
People that don't play MvC2 forget about
Spiral
Cammy
Juggz
War Machine
Ruby Heart
BB Hood
Anak
Omega Red
Dhalism
These characters are very strong contenders (even on point) in MvC2. Throw in the top 6 and assist only characters and thats over 20 characters.
I never remember how many characters specifically, so to save the trouble I end up saying 6. Also, I never forget about these characters. Juggs was in my main team. In fact, so was Bulleta. Granted there are great teams and assists that don't involve the main teams you see in (insert major tourney with MvC2), but everywhere I lived and went to to battle,most cats I would play showed no variety... It was basically "Attack of the Clones" when it came to that. There were so many people who flung towards the game in some sort of "revival" a few times, and instead of seeing diverse teams, it was the same ole sad song of 2 high tiers + Sentinel or maybe a Strider/Doom, but even then they didn't take notice of other characters like Sabretooth who can even make a good assist if you want to do the exact same thing with Sentinel without actually picking Sentinel... And how does one look at MvC2 as a 1on1??? I mean obviously if both teams are down to one character, but other than that what???
Mai
Vice
Rock
Kyo
Yamazaki
Todo
Nakomaru
Need more SNK characters?
Again, these are great characters, and I know a few people who use Vice, Kyo, Yamazaki, and Todo... But there's that "Attack of the Clone Syndrone" that lingers in this game, too... In actual matches, I've only seen Gunther play Kyo, and a few other characters either use Iori, or Hibiki, and thats it... I know there are good characters... I've been preaching that Athena is the "anti-Sagat" for ages!!! Raiden was even pretty good (before XIII). But the players show no diversity... The past month or two, I managed to play some CvS2... The guy I ended up fighting had A-Rolento/Vega/Blanka, and never changed his team at all... I'm just tired of the monotony in games with a million characters, but only 10% or less get any real play, and people don't even attempt to try learning characters, they just watch an B5 tourney vid and pick those characters... That's why I miss when JJBA was thriving. You barely saw a bunch of the same characters, and there were even players who picked low tier characters like Rubber Soul showed that they could stand a chance with the tricks they came up with. Tekken is actually too, but its debatable for some...
It already happened in court Data East won (Data East could of counter sued Capcom about the magic series of normals).
Yeah I know about the lawsuit... I was hoping for a more pixelated VS game... Or I should've just said FHD vs SF... Iunno...
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I have a mixed opinion, i would be happy with either option.
For one side i would take more VS titles, only to see some characters getting introduced in a FG, like Deadpool or Megaman Volnutt for example.
For the other side, i would like to see Capcom making another of their old franchises like the ones posted before, too bad it would probably be with 3D models instead of good old sprites, which is one of the main points i don't like.
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Its a common misconception people have on marvel 2 when they think of it they try to play it like a 1v1.
As for the clone syndrome its the fact that people like to stick with what is familiar as lot of A3 players migrated over to cvs when it came out thats why you see alot more of Sakura, Sagat, Rolento, and Vega. For Raiden free jump-ins not many characters have that in cvs2.
As for JJBA there is still a few people that play the game on GGPO. There is small scene for Jojo's in Norcal You got FlithieRich, Fayk, and GameGeezer. And there is frame data now since I got access to the Dev Menu I'll pm you the details.
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If there was a new crossover between SNK and Capcom, I want it to be Garou vs. Street Fighter. Ken vs. Terry, Ryu vs. Andy, Mai vs. Chun Li, Lee brothers vs. Kim brothers, Hugo vs. Griffon... It's just so hard for me to ignore.
But yeah. They have to be balanced. B|
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My vote would be for Capcom to stop making fighting games. They've been in decline since Street Fighter Alpha 2. SFIV is awful and MvC3 is possibly worse.
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What about SF III ? (and with that i mean 3S). It's not my cup of tea, but is regarded as the best fighting game EVUR by a lot of people.
SFA2 was released in 1996, and Capcom made made some good fighting games since.
By the way i'm not saying all of their FG since 96~97 were good.
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What about SF III ? (and with that i mean 3S). It's not my cup of tea, but is regarded as the best fighting game EVUR by a lot of people.
SFA2 was released in 1996, and Capcom made made some good fighting games since.
By the way i'm not saying all of their FG since 96~97 were good.
The SFIII series (especially 3S) was Capcom's fighting high point for me too. Progression in several points. Alpha/Zero 2 was just as much a Gem as these. But I do agree, some presentation aestetics aside, if things like MVC3 and S/SFIV/AE are the best Capcom can give us, they're kind of done for me.
Sad thing is, as good as Capcom could potentially be, I'm always hyped when any other company handles Capcom characters. NamcoXCapcom, SVC:C, and I can wait to see TvSF; external interpretations and choices of characters always seem to show potential.
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I don´t think Capcom is what it used to be, at least in terms of fighting games.
Not so long ago, they would still develop their classic 2D fighters, even in the next gen era, they were still on business.
Street Fighter Zero, the Marvel and then Marvel vs games, JoJo, etc.
They were a company producing bit hits with newer technology like Bio Hazard and many other games, but still keep their fighting divission games classic and pure.
Somewhere along the way, they decided to stop doing quality stuff and just go for the pure mainstream bullshit.
I would actually like for SNK and Capcom to have, once again, that classic battle for the reign of the fighting genre.
Capcom might get all the money, but, at least to me, they don´t have the prestige anymore.
So to me, Versus games, new/old franchise games, are the same now. Capcom games are all shit to me now.
I didn´t like Marvel Vs Capcom 2, I wasn´t a fan of 100% of their games, but I have been a Capcom supporter for a long time, not anymore.
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What about SF III ? (and with that i mean 3S). It's not my cup of tea, but is regarded as the best fighting game EVUR by a lot of people.
SFA2 was released in 1996, and Capcom made made some good fighting games since.
By the way i'm not saying all of their FG since 96~97 were good.
I don't like SFIII. While there are some pretty good characters, the gameplay always felt really slow to me. When you look at the SF series, it strived for speed and aggression. The speed part dies out after the Alpha series and A2 felt better to me than A3.
Garou is like the better version of the SFIII series.
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I would just want Capcom to do what I want all developers to do: make good games. Whether they're new IP or crossovers doesn't matter as much to me. However, seeing as the only times they've really tried anything different from the old formula is when they had new IP (like Darkstalkers, JJBA, X-Men:COTA), I guess I would lean towards new IP just for the sake of having a game that isn't a completely defensive turtle-fest. Plus, their history of crossovers doesn't exactly beam of effort, aside from MvC3 having so much evidence of being deliberately stupid.
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What about SF III ? (and with that i mean 3S). It's not my cup of tea, but is regarded as the best fighting game EVUR by a lot of people.
SFA2 was released in 1996, and Capcom made made some good fighting games since.
By the way i'm not saying all of their FG since 96~97 were good.
I don't like SFIII. While there are some pretty good characters, the gameplay always felt really slow to me. When you look at the SF series, it strived for speed and aggression. The speed part dies out after the Alpha series and A2 felt better to me than A3.
Garou is like the better version of the SFIII series.
Street Fighter Zero 2 is clearly the best of the series.
Zero 3 had a lot of nice things in the art department (new characters, new animations, Dan's new fighting pose, etc) but the gameplay suffered.
They added a guard gauge, wich is great, but the throw was performed with one or two buttons. EPIC FAIL. THIS IS WRONG.
Plus, they asked you to select if you wanted to do the supers, the custom, counters, etc; while on Zero 2 you had everything from the getgo!!! Ridiculous.
Zero 3 also had a couple of broken stuff, Zero 2, while not perfect, was more balanced.
Many people want the Vampire Saviour series to return. Those people should keep in mind that if the series return, it will have the same treatment as SF4....no thanks.
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For some reason, it pisses me off that the Darkstalkers series gets good representation in MvC3 (3 characters), but they're all women. Makes me think they just did it for fanservice and not because they actually care about that series.
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Well there is a few types of Vampire fans.
1. Those who know the games and can play them at decent level.
2. People that can draw and know about animation.
3. Random scrubs that don't know nothing about the series that think it would be sf4 with cooler characters. This can also apply to this group. People that don't like the magic series chains even though this series has it.
In Marvel 2 there was a lot of Darkstalkers characters only 3 were really competitive, 2 were decent, and the other was a joke.
Darkstalkers in order of effectiveness in mvc2
Anak
Ruby Heart
BB Hood
Morrigan
Amingo
Felicia
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Ruby Heart is not a Darkstalkers character. x:
I don't think Amingo was either.
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He wasn't , he and Ruby Heart were 2 original characters made for MvC2. A shame that's their only fighting game appareance :(.
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There was a Darkstalkers 4 slated to be released around 2000 for the cps3 ,but got pushed back due to Capcom adopting the Naomi as their main hardware instead of the cps3. After the hardware change the teams became separated to do ports or the versus series so the original Darkstalkers 4 died out due to them not getting success out of their fighting games anymore.
And guess which characters are there for cross promotion like Anita was going to be for MSH.
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What about SF III ? (and with that i mean 3S). It's not my cup of tea, but is regarded as the best fighting game EVUR by a lot of people.
SFA2 was released in 1996, and Capcom made made some good fighting games since.
By the way i'm not saying all of their FG since 96~97 were good.
I don't like SFIII. While there are some pretty good characters, the gameplay always felt really slow to me. When you look at the SF series, it strived for speed and aggression. The speed part dies out after the Alpha series and A2 felt better to me than A3.
Garou is like the better version of the SFIII series.
3S (or the whole SF3 series) is slow due to the parry system. If it were any faster, it would be like trying to parry in CvS2, which is horrible. Strangely enough, its easier to Just Defend in K groove though...
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fuck crossing over, id rather have a new RB3 and a new HD 2d SS game.
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Man it's probably because I've been playing 3S for so long but I don't see how it's slow.
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Man it's probably because I've been playing 3S for so long but I don't see how it's slow.
Yeah just play a quick game of ST, and you can see how slow it is... I'm also feel that SF4 is about as slow as 3S. It maybe slightly faster, but you can't really tell, even when playing with a character like Adon or Guy.