Topics

1

General Discussion / KOFXIII Hitbox Viewer

« on: June 20, 2012, 12:44:07 AM »

We need to see them, and I know i'm not the only one who needs and want it. Coming from an MB background where I had access to frame data and a hitbox viewer if there's any possible way this needs to be done. Especially since there isn't a KOFXIII strategy guide. This is something that's needed, in the SRK wiki (yeah I know taboo to mention) but they have Terry's hitboxes in the spacing explanations this is something we need to get our hands on.

2

General Discussion / LateThrow OS

« on: December 21, 2011, 11:22:44 PM »

Sequence:
2B ~6C/D ~ 2A or 5A

This fits throw in the late cancel window, best used if baiting an opps roll attempt, or an opp tries to wake-up roll.

Option 1: IF 2B hits, you late cancel into A and can confirm into combo.
Option 2: If the opp rolls the 2B, the 2A gets dropped and automatically gets grabbed.
Option 3: If 2B is blocked then 2A comes out and you continue pressure.

3

Kyo Kusanagi / Kyo Kusanagi Match-up Discussion

« on: December 11, 2011, 07:58:00 PM »

I figured i'd start this thread so that we can understand the trials and tribulations of this Flame wielding protagonist with out further a due lets start.

Ash
This match is a bitch, in just every sense of the word, forcing Kyo to get impatient and take those unfavorable arcs. You have to play very patient, since Ash's A DP can pick you off and reset your progress. Once you get in close though Ash's A dp is his best friend and worst enemy. It's fast enough to punish your spacing options, even 5D so watch out for this. Bait it out and on block you can 5C > convert, or if he whiffs you have to react quickly dash up and 5C > convert for a punish and put it in Kyo's favorable position. Also don't be too predictable and don't stagger your strings too much or you'll eat an A DP free.

In neutral, you surely have to react Kyo's EX projectile is a big help so it's not completely a loss. Reacting to Genie placement and projectiles knocks down Ash and gives you some ground for extreme measures Kyo's Neo Max punishes quite well.

Leona
There's quite a few points in this match-up that can be annoying for Kyo too deal with. Her normals are fast and are long reaching so spacing can be quite tasking. Her 2D shrinks her hit box so she can get under your J.B as well as dodge your 5D and knock you down. Other then that moonslasher keeps her area safe and is almost always a constant danger though if blocked she's in deficit so you can punish her hard and make her pay for it. Once Leona has meter she pretty much has free jump-ins as Vslasher is truly scary. Especially EX since it can take a good chunk of your life and punish your anti-air attempts.

I personally play this match grounded and patient, rushing is ill-advised unless you punish her projectile startup with Kyo's EX which will knock her down and give you the advantage.

Saiki
This matchup is easier then Saiki, you can play this match up patiently since he doesn't have an EX projectile that can punish your projectiles. So you can walk up and be a nuiscance, just don't get out of control or you'll quickly find yourself in the corner in a soft knockdown state. This battle becomes a little bit more annoying passed midscreen since his projectile becomes that more effective. Rolling passed it is ill-advised, and at the proper spacing jumping over projectile will only get you DPed or anti-air super into safe jump.  When under seige by the flamboyant antagonist, J4B can always be used to bait you out so always be aware of this fact.

Iori (Claw)
Haven't fought this match up too much, but it seems to be more in Kyo's favor due to having a projectile, and some pretty good normals. Kyo's ability to effectively switch from zoning to aggression is simply great, being able to annoy him and keep him under wraps. Though Iori's normals are great and are able to battle back Kyo's great onslaught. You have to be careful if you get knockdown as he can put into an intense level of hurt especially with his command cross up and overhead.  Also his 2D actually goes under J.B , but can be punished on block by a dash up 2B conversion.

Iori (Flame)
This fight is a bit more to deal with, since he has his fire back. His C projectile is something to keep in mind as it travels fast and will more than likely catch you in startup if you're trying to clash projectiles with him better to neutral jump over it to keep your space or roll if the spacing is in your favor. Though it's still quite straightforward, his 2D also goes under your J.B, but can be punished on block by a dash up 2B conversion.

Elisabeth
This match-up is a battle of patience as an attentive Elisabeth can have you knocked down and guessing from a simple 5A anti air. Her dp is also something to worry about, it can punish your projectiles at closer ranges so stay aware. In neutral she can nullify projectiles and gain meter and stay put forcing you to come to her which is a bad thing since EX dp will be waiting for you around the corner. Just relax and play solid and safe, jumping too much and playing too overzealous will get you into definite trouble.

In air to air situations it's hard to win that battle, her J.CD is great and it out ranges a lot of your jump normals, it seems like you have to get above her J.CD to punish her will tell more once I play this match-up more.

4

Raiden / Raiden and Air Throw Combo Enders

« on: December 11, 2011, 06:57:23 PM »

I found something interesting while practicing my Mai safe jump setup. When doing an air throw ender on Raiden, he doesn't get a knockdown sound cue, nor does he get hard knockdown it's not even soft knockdown he just gets right back up so he can't be safe jumped what so ever from this ender. Now for any other chars with air throw combo enders can you guys test it and post your findings I want to know if it's just Mai or every character.

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Athena Asamiya / Athena Matchup Discussion

« on: December 10, 2011, 09:33:04 AM »

I figured i'd start this thread so that Athena fans could help out the idol in her trials and tribulations through combat. So without further a do, let us begin.

Ash
This is a favorable match up for Athena , because she wins the projectile war simple numbers. Every one projectile Ash throws Athena gets two or three if EX reflector is used. Keep your distance and play the ranged game, no need to put yourself in harms way. Stay alert and look for Ash's Ex projectile, though reflecting that can definitely set him straight. Eventually the Ash will have to come forward, simply due to chip down damage from Athena's and Ash's projectiles combined. If the Ash starts to approach from the air A Psycho sword works nice or back jump CD to push him back and start your zoning game. In closer proximity, far standing D does nice and can tag out of the air on a short hop.

5B, and 5A of course are answers, just keep calm and be aware of your spacing with your psycho ball zoning. Closer you are the less the Ash can throw projectiles since he'll be getting hit by his own, just pay attention to his meter as EX projectile can knock you down and give him the advantage which you always want him on your terms.

Edit:
Playing this match-up a bit more, I noticed how fast Athena actually recovers from A psycho ball. You can get away with throwing this out and not have to worry about retaliation from Ash's EX projectile. You can still block and return fire.

Saiki
This matchup is an even easier Ash matchup since he doesn't have an EX projectile, simply reflect and stack on the plasma. A psycho sword of course is great, but can be baited by Saiki J4B so keep that in mind. In the corner Saiki's Super projectile can keep you lockdown tight and chip your life. Though this match isn't as hard as the Ash matchup.

Elisabeth
As every matchup with Athena, it's all about patience though one has to be careful as the more you zone the more you feed the ElisaBeast. 236A absorbs your projectiles, though space has to be taken into consideration since you can be punished by Elisabeth 623A/C/EX series which leads to a down for her plus oki. Playing really solid and safe is only your best option, since her option in every level of the fighter ie: Offense, Defense, and Neutral is more in her favor. In an air to air full jump back CD can tag her if the Elisabeth is getting overly aggressive which she shouldn't be in neutral.

You truly have to be patiently annoying, play solid and safe as this battle can turn sour quickly.

Iori (Claw)
This battle is pretty straight-forward zone him though he has a few tricks he can use to get around Athena's zoning. Such as 214BD which is fast and blows through her plasma, also his EX maiden masher can punish her projectiles. Just pay attention and keep him zoned and this battle should be over before you know it, within normal range be careful since his normals out range you and are really well suited to out poking and can give you a lot of trouble.

Iori (Flame)
Another straight forward match-up with a little twist ,which is Iori's C projectile. It's extremely fast so you have to pay attention to it. Though it's excellent to reflect, because at most distances Iori is still in recovery so he'll get hit by it. Then there's another projectile heading his way so this is a really annoying battle for Iori. Also his EX projectile is way slower then his C, so you can reflect it without much to worry about just don't get hit or you'll be stuck and he can run up and combo you easily. Though Iori using it outside of combos is rare, it's still the second week of his unveiling so who knows what new technology will appear.

Another thing that makes this battle easier, is that he doesn't have EX moves that'll go through your projectiles aside from his EX dp though that's quite unsafe if blocked.

Kula
This chick can be annoying, since she has a reflect of her own and longer normals namely 5B, 2B , J.B. Just keep yourself aware. You can throw A psycho balls from longer ranges and remain safe from reflect retaliation. You surely have to vary your psychoball timing from A~ C to keep her guessing and hopefully confuse her so that'll she'll get hit trying to reflect. Though you'll do more normal zoning then plasma zoning, Far 5D works great since it goes over 2B, the real problem is 5B, because it's wayy better then Athena's since it hits crouchers. Even 2D, you have to play really careful or you'll be eating a disgusting combo.

Also on 2B spamming Kula's which is all of them if you roll passed them or cross them up which most Kula's use 2B to shrink themselves and anti air the game will auto-correct and convert to slider shooter which is punishable and which can be grabbed on start up. I'll be performing more tests to get around her BS so i'll post it when I find it.

Leona
This match-up isn't too hard, just have to stay aware of Leona's positioning . Air to air situations she's hard to take on head to head, but I find Jump back CD, a good tool universally to keep her out besides 5B, 623A, and 5A. In closer proximity Leona can use grand sabre to punish Psycho Ball startup though that's a risky maneuver but still and option. Once she has more than a meter, her jump-ins are a lot scarier due to the threat of Vslasher. In closer proximity her normals out class yours by a mile. Her 2D is a serious threat as it goes under your 5D it shrinks under your jump normals so you have to be careful.

When in the corner her long reaching normals keep you locked down it's especially hard to escape that situation with moonslasher a foot. A lot of her normals also push her forward and can poke you out your escape attempts so this a position where you don't belong.

6

Saiki / Saiki Matchup Discussion

« on: December 07, 2011, 08:38:52 PM »

I figured i'd get this thread up, so that others can share their knowledge of the adversaries that they've encountered and some tech that they can utilize to get around the opposition. So far i've only encountered a handful of characters, haven't been able to get out and play just yet, but i'm hoping to. These are my opinions and anyone else is welcome to chime in with their ideas or experiences.

Leona
This matchup imo isn't too hard for Saiki, her major points are the face that she has Vslasher as a constant reminder so she can full jump and easily punish you for throwing an orb or trying punish her for advancing. If the Leona is paying attention she can also Grand Sabre you to punish your projectile depending on the spacing which happens less frequently. Her neutral is barely a contest , it's just her normals in close proximity does she really shine. Her 2D goes under projectlies, and a handful of her normals move her forward. Her 2D hits 5D since it angles upward and can be annoying to deal with in general. Zoning is surely the way to go, even though 5D loses to 2D, you can still build a wall with your projectile and normals to stop her advance.

Saiki on offense isn't really dangerous, but one should always beware of moonslasher and EX moonslasher, they're both fast and the notation can't be crossed up so baiting with J4B when rushing down is pretty good. Overall this matchup isn't too hard just have to watch out for Vslasher, Moonslasher, and close proximity. In neutral she has to risk rolling or spending meter. As far as air to air I prefer not to engage her at all in the air, since that's a free Vslasher and her normals are great overall. Playing a solid ground game is sure the way to go.

Ash

This match is a bitch for Saiki especially in neutral, Ash has an upperhand in the fireball projectile war due to Ash's EX projectile and you can't use 236236A to approach what so ever since he can simply use his 236236A to nullify and keep it moving. Saiki has to be a lot closer for his projectile to be annoying, but the threat of Ash's EX projectile is never too far. As far as normals go it becomes a mirror match, the match boils down to who can get who first, but Ash's B DP is a definite concern it's very fast and can hit you out of your approach if you get too overzealous. Jumping outside of your pressure is ill-advised since Ash's B DP is lurking in the shadows to knock you down a peg and put it back into Ash's favor. Patience and a smart approach is the best way to deal with this matchup.

Edit:
Having played more matches you need to play a lot more solid then I originally thought since you can't play the projectile game. Ash's EX projectile will snag you easily so be extra careful which is something I can't stress enough. Also bait out dps and heavily punish to scare the Ash from continually whipping out DP or Sansculotte which can easily be safe jumped from Saiki's many hard knockdowns.

Kula

This matchup is is annoying, but nothing Saiki can't handle. The projectile war is a bit sketchy, since she can reflect your projectiles . you can easily block it depending on the space, but nothing is gained so it's useless. You can still zone her with smart projectile play, and normals. Kula can't mindlessly throw out 2B and 2D since Saiki's 5D goes over both and easily punishes her. Crossing up Kula can be dangerous because the game will auto-correct her and she'll get sldier shooter which she can be grabbed out of the startup of or you can block and punish her. Though it comes out fast and hits low so you have to be careful, but looking out for that makes it a free punish.

When locked down in the corner it's quite annoying her 2B and 5B a lone can easily lock you down. Once the Kula pushes herself out you can 5D or shorthop and try and force your way out. Though it becomes so simplistic, the Kula may read your option out and DP you  or simply bait it out. Kula's corner pressure is pretty linear so blocking isn't a bad option, she'll eventually have to jump so DP or EX DP can put her into the corner and switch the situation easily. When pressuring becareful of her hurricane kick and Ex hurricane kick as they can easily snag you if you try and get overzealous.

Iori (Claws)
This beast is a lot less scary without his flames he has no ability to fight against Saiki fullscreen, but Iori is fast and has the projectile invincible specials such as 214BD to get around your zoning at midscreen also his Ranbu super can punish you for ill-spaced projectiles. So when he has meter just pay extra attention to your spacing, this forces Iori to take to the skies or risk a roll to get to Saiki without meter. As far as normals go, Iori has Saiki beat, his normals reach far and have good speed. to keep you in check at midscreen with normal spacing. In the corner and under pressure Iori has a ground overhead so watchout for that a long with his command crossup which can catch you by surprise. I haven't played this match enough to give a better insight.

Shen Woo
Another beast, but a completely different monster. His EX Turn-around punch and Turn-around punch super are both invincible and projectile invincible so you have to stay alert in certain spacing since he can punish your projectiles very easily and do massive damage. As far as Shen's normals, his 2C is fast and shuts down aerial approach really well if you get too predictable. Also if you jump too high and get impatient his Turn-around punch super can anti-air you free. Overall his normals are solid to be annoying and perform their jobs well. The battle overall isn't so hard, just be aware and play patient. Saiki's 5D is also good, outside of 2B range to snag Shen's 2B/2D and to further annoy him.

Just don't get too predictable since he has Gekiken (236C) which has guardpoint and can punish your normals.

Mature
This match can get annoying, since Mature has despair (623A/C/AC) to get around your projectile spacing so you have to be aware. EX Despair has invul so if your spacing is sloppy you'll find yourself getting slashed. Mature's normals are long so she can be quite the annoyance. Though 5D can surely help out, Mature's 2D is low so 5D can soar over it and punish her. Mature is most deadly on the offensive, her rekkas are very difficult to deal with for Saiki, don't be ashamed to spend meter to GCCD your way out. The second rekka is the safest no matter the distance while the 1st and 3rd can be punished , but not by Saiki. Her Despair EX is punishable on block with 2B, it's also not an overhead so not to worry, but depending on the spacing 623B can crossup. 623A/B are unpunishable, even by Saiki's EX Kyoryuu-no-Ori (624624AC).

Just be aware of your spacing , and be prepared to react since she's pretty fast.

Elisabeth
This is another match that requires truly solid ground game and patience, though spacing her can be difficult with Coup De Vent (623AC) a foot. She can react to Saiki's startup animation for his projectile and get dp into hard knockdown. This is definitely a battle that requires the Saiki to not be sloppy, air to air is Elisabeth's game mostly. Jumping back. B isn't to bade nor is neutral jump CD. Getting over her jump normals is extremely important, to zone her. Another thing to worry about is Etincelle (236A/C), as it absorbs projectiles and gives her meter even if she whiffs. So Elisabeth is always a constant threat, one offense and defense. This match is truly more in her favor especially with her anti air 5A leads to Grand Rafale ( 236624A/C) her infamous anywhere juggle that'll put the ball in her court.

On offense it's always a constant struggle and you have to stay alert always especially with EX Coup De Vent lurking. 5D is a good tool, but again her DP is always a constant threat which Saiki can not punish on block. GCCD is needed. Though her dp is good in neutral, it's poor as a reversal so safejumping her on wakeup is easy.

7

General Discussion / Character Rise Speeds

« on: December 05, 2011, 11:22:47 PM »

This is mostly a generalization of the casts rise speeds, I tested using the timings for my safe jump setups. As stated it isn't specific just a general idea of what i've noticed. Also the placement of the char on the list isn't in correlation to the chars speed. Meaning Kyo isn't necessarily the fastest of Tier B.


Tier S
I AM RAIDEN

Tier A
Iori Yagami

Tier B
Kyo Kusanagi
Benimaru Nikaido
Goro Daimon
Terry Bogard
Kick Boxing Champion Joe Higashi
Andy Bogard
Billy Kane
Ash Crimson
Saiki
Ryo Sakazaki
Robert Garcia
Takuma Sakazaki
Mature
Vice
Elisabeth
Duo Lon
Shen Woo
Kim Kaphwan From Korea
K'
Kula Diamond
Maxima
Athena Asamiya
Chin Gentsai
Ralf Jones
Clark Still
Leona Heidern

Tier C
Hwa Jai
King
Yuri Sakazaki
Sie Kensou

8

Offline Matchmaking / New York / New Jersey Players! Stand Up!

« on: November 30, 2011, 10:19:54 PM »

I'm pretty new to the KOF series and I want to really get down to the nitty gritty with this game. I live in Jersey City, New Jersey and i'm always for people to play. I rarely do netplay as there's too much of a random factor with connection quality. So i'm looking to actually start this thread so that we New York / New Jersey players can get in touch with each other and get a small community going. Perhaps stream our matches and get them recorded so that they maybe analyzed and critiqued to better ourselves.

I usually hold gatherings at my house for Melty Blood Actress Again so this is nothing new to me so if you guys are in
New York / New Jersey and are interested in this reply here and i'll contact you with a PM so that we can schedule everything.

Player Listing:

1) Name: Kirah
Gamertag: KirahXIII
Location: Jersey City, NJ

2) Name: SpLSlick
PSN Tag: LSlick
Location: New York, NY *specifically Harlem

3) Name: Chipymax
Xbox Live: Chipymax
Location: Bronx, New York

4) Name: Axel_Belmont
PSN: Axel_Belmont
Location: Valley Stream, New York

5) Name: Siren
Gamertag: Blaque Siren
Location: Jersey City, New Jersey (Where fighting games come to die)

9

General Discussion / KOFXIII Back Roll Option Select

« on: November 29, 2011, 07:15:09 AM »

Not sure if this was already discovered, but I figured this out while in the laboratory i'll use Benimaru as an example so the sequence is:

J.D > 4AB ~ 5D

Explanation: So it works as follows if Benimaru's JD whiffs, you automatically land and back roll. I figured it could work versus 2B short hop anti airs. Thought comments, also i'm sorry if this is old technology, i'm still pretty new to the KOF series.

10

General Discussion / KOFXIII Framedata

« on: October 28, 2011, 03:19:00 AM »

UPDATE: I have merged the request thread with the Frame Data thread jump down to this post -Kane317: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1414.msg47298#msg47298

ANOTHER UPDATE Signed by R compiled keykakko's Frame Data table into a google spreadsheet which has a majority of the cast: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=0 - Desmond Delaghetto

I have a question more of a request or maybe more of a prayer. I firmly believe that frame data for each char in KOFXIII should be put in the respective character discussion threads. As a person who uses frame data to plot strategically the validity of normals and specials this can greatly improve strategy through out the entire community. I know this request maybe a bit heavy , but in short words it'll be god-like. XD

11

Training Room / Kirah's Strategical and Team Synergism Inquiries

« on: October 25, 2011, 09:51:46 PM »

I'm a bit new to playing SNK games, i've read the tutorials and  watched videos and I understand the gist of how the game flows. I just have a few more questions, such as:

When is the best time to use roll guard cancels?
"I use it to escape pressure and to punish disadvantageous moves, i'm asking to see if there's possibly another option i'm missing."

how meter should be managed ie: Should the meter be built and concentrated on defensive actions, or should it be spent toward a single confirm.

Also when is the preferred use of Blow-off?

"I use it when i'm pressuring and the opponent is in the corner and they manage to force me to block so the BO will push them back into the corner."

Lastly in KOF XIII, I want my main team to be  Athena/Benimaru/Takuma and my second team to be K'/Leona/Takuma.

Any thoughts or on my team choices or answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated thank you.

12

Meet & Greet / Greetings and Salutations from Jersey City, New Jersey

« on: October 21, 2011, 06:50:45 PM »

My name is Kirah, and I haven't been playing KOF much. I recently started to want to play this game competitively. My main game currently is MBAA (Melty Blood Actress Again), and I wholeheartedly feel I enjoy this game. I'm practicing XI and 2K2um to prepare for XIII. It's a pleasure to be a part of this community and meet you all in combat someday. ^^