Messages

1

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: July 21, 2012, 08:51:12 AM »

I've been trying to do the dp+B to drink cancel myself, and I can't seem to do it either. Sorry, I must have been wrong, I thought I had done it a while ago. I guess not. I wonder if Hwa might be in an aerial state on the very first frame. You might only be able to do aerial specials. The easy way to test would be to see if you can cancel from dp+B into qcfx2+B/D, since that would require only a f+B/D after the initial dp+B input. But yeah, it's not really worth doing.

2

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: July 18, 2012, 09:10:55 PM »

It's possible, just extremely difficult. I've managed to do it. You can link another dp+B or qcf+A after it in the corner. You're going to have a much easier time if you DC from qcf+AC into drink instead.

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Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: July 18, 2012, 02:45:41 AM »

That combo with EX super at the end does 609, which is pretty much the same damage for Reynald's combo and is much, much easier. Of course, if you do Reynald's combo, you have the option of using an extra stock to end with EX DM instead of regular DM, but I can't tell how much damage that does because of how difficult Reynald's combo is. The QCB+D has to hit 4 times for the air DP+B to hit afterwards, which is something that is either character or timing specific (or both). It seems very inconsistent from the bit that I tried it.

The timing on the qcb+D is not really character specific in terms of at which height the enemy needs to be, but the timing is just something you have to get used to, as far as I know. It just takes lots of practice. I really just kinda judge it by eye, and I get it about 3/4 of the time. That's not a very helpful answer, I know, but it's all I can suggest.

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General Discussion / Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread

« on: July 18, 2012, 01:07:03 AM »

Hwa's slide is never negative on block unless you do it without cancelling into it. s.B, s.A or whatever cancelled into slide will leave you at least a +0, if not better. And I also wouldn't say that crouch-blocking Hwa is a great plan, as his hyperhop D WILL cross you up, leading to midscreen crossup pressure strings. His light normals also hit crouchers and give him massive advantage on block, giving him amazing pressure and grab setups.

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General Discussion / Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread

« on: July 16, 2012, 09:18:38 PM »

I have disagreements with the list.  I guess it is okay, but some people are underrated such as Clark, Ralf, Claw Iori(he's easily in the top bracket and is one of the best anchors in the game), and Maxima.

Claw Iori is very good, we had him in the 9th spot on S tier until only a few weeks ago, but really he lacks quite a lot. Compare him to Hwa Jai. Hwa has a better version of every single offensive tool that Claw has going for him, deals far more damage as well as having better defensive tools. Claw severely lacks defensive tools and zoning tools, and his grappling game is decent at best with a slow 9f grab that has horrible range, and an EX grab that's not even instant (still 5f startup), so it's somewhat easier to bait than most. While he's pretty good with pressure and can deal massive damage, he just suffers severely from a few bad matchups, namely every character on the S tier. He still has amazing normals and can deal absurd damage with HD, but he can be kept out fairly easily by any character with solid zoning tools/far reaching normals since the removal or severe nerfing of the invulnerability on all of his EX moves from the arcade version.

I think people that think of Hwa Jai as lacking in certain aspects don't actually know Hwa Jai very well. He literally lacks nothing. Zoning? If you throw a fireball at him, he can shoryu through it for an 800+ damage combo anywhere. Qcb+B/D pressure is NOT something that Hwa should be doing. He's actually got frame advantage after d/f+B slide, meaning he has no need to ever use his qcb+B/D outside of combos. He's got a 0f 2F (_{Fixed. -Kane317}) grab, an invulnerable halfscreen grab, an invulnerable halfscreen attack that gives Hwa advantage on block, and he can win games entirely relying on his borderline broken A/B poke game (considering any normal he touches you with could lead into a literal death combo without even using HD). Basically whichever range you're fighting in, Hwa has an answer to every situation. He doesn't have a single bad matchup.

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Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: July 16, 2012, 09:09:46 PM »

That is pretty cool. I never really considered using the TK dp+B. I wonder if it has any good implementations while drunk.

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Andy Bogard / Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread

« on: July 16, 2012, 06:16:37 AM »

I need help against raiden

Sweep the leg.

O_O

Seriously, though. Raiden's shoulder charge gets shut down by Andy's sweep.

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Andy Bogard / Re: The Human Weapon of the Shiranui: Andy Matchup Thread

« on: July 16, 2012, 01:22:55 AM »

I need help against raiden

Sweep the leg.

9

General Discussion / Re: Positive Edge

« on: July 15, 2012, 06:22:17 PM »

To be fair, XIII is the first KOF game that many people have taken seriously since... 2k2? So anyone that's only started seriously playing KOF in the last decade might not know. XI was great, but less than popular.

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General Discussion / Re: Post-Evo KOF XIII Tier List (with in-depth breakdown of the cast)

« on: July 15, 2012, 02:51:04 AM »

Yeah it's just a general tier list. We were kinda waiting for Evo to maybe move some characters around. The only thing we changed as a result of Evo was Kim's placement. We had him still listed as one of the best batteries, but not quite as high as he is now. Lacking any zoning or grappling tools whatsoever really don't hold him back from being one of the best characters in the game. His rushdown is just ridiculous.

Since this is XIII, even the characters on the lowest tier have competitive viability. Even Maxima or Mai (who are generally agreed upon as being the worst characters) have some unique tools and can potentially wreck people.

11

Iori Yagami (Claw) / Re: Iori Yagami (Console)

« on: July 03, 2012, 03:07:24 PM »

Alright, you're right, I shouldn't say NEVER do it, but it shouldn't be done even as often as once in ten matches. Your opponents WILL adapt at that rate, and at 21+ frames of animation, both overheads can actually be VERY easily reacted to, throwing the whole "use it unpredictably" thing out. I mean, I see people react to Claw's throw on startup, and that's only 9f. It's more than twice as fast as Claw's overhead, and nearly 3x as fast as Flame's overhead. The average human being has is able to read and react to an image in 215ms, or 12-13 frames (or 1/5 of a second), so if they get used to seeing that move and don't even have to consider the properties of it after seeing it, then they can instantly react, putting you in an extremely dangerous situation. Someone who's been playing fighting games for 20 years probably has closer to 7-10f reaction time. It means that they could see it and read the specific move twice over before it comes out.

I'll say this though, if you're able to confirm it reliably, then go for it. Claw's overhead is only -2 on block, which just means that you're punishable by only a few characters. If you can't confirm it every time, then it's really not worth it for the meager 270 damage when you're opening yourself up for a free B&B or even HD combo, considering you're at -12 on block. -12 is A LOT in XIII. When you put yourself at -12, Hwa Jai and Takuma, for example, can literally kill you from full health with 1 drive and 1 meter, no HD combo necessary. Most characters can get 500+ for 1+1. On a 50/50 mixup, it's just not worth the risk unless you're going for the kill.

After looking at all the data I may be actually changing my vote for the better overhead to Flame, simply due to the range of it. It makes it impossible to punsh at max range, even for characters with instant grabs.

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Iori Yagami (Claw) / Re: Iori Yagami (Console)

« on: July 01, 2012, 04:34:01 PM »

Tiny nitpicks:

I haven't looked at the frame data for both of their command overheads yet, but I would give the edge to Claw for the better overhead option. First of all, both of them are only able to follow up after their overheads with HD activation, and Claw obviously gets more damage from that.

This is not even close to true. Both claw and honoo can cancel their overheads into supers and at low levels of scaling, flame iori's supers do more damage. Players are more likely to have 1 or 2 stocks than 100% HD at just about any given point in a match so this is actually very relevant. Although I do agree that ex iori's much easier to react to.

Though it's true that you can super cancel the ovrheads, you'd be pretty foolish to do it. Both Ioris are completely punishable after super by a close normal into an HD or whatever. Many characters' meterless B&B combos from a close normal deal more damage than Iori's super. You're totally free if you do this, and you can't really hit confirm from either overhead since it's a cancel. So when you do it, it's a 50/50 guess for you, and the risk versus reward is just nowhere near good enough.

You CAN do it, but you should pretty much NEVER do it.

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Iori Yagami (Claw) / Re: Iori Yagami (Console)

« on: June 28, 2012, 05:48:07 PM »

I haven't looked at the frame data for both of their command overheads yet, but I would give the edge to Claw for the better overhead option. First of all, both of them are only able to follow up after their overheads with HD activation, and Claw obviously gets more damage from that. I would also say that I find Claw's overhead harder to read (again, I don't know which one is actually faster), due to the animation actually strangely looking like his close standing B at the startup, which may occasionally cause someone to block low. Flame's f+B also looks pretty obvious. It looks nothing like any of his other attacks.

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Iori Yagami (Claw) / Re: Iori Yagami (Console)

« on: June 27, 2012, 06:47:18 PM »

You're probably better off with Flame Iori if you want him as a battery. He just has way more meterless tools.

15

Hwa Jai / Re: Hwa Jai (Console)

« on: June 23, 2012, 12:50:14 AM »

I just try to get in the habit of looking at the timer during the super flash, and then when I'm doing my qcb+B loops (as they take up lots of time and don't take much attention to pull off).