Author Topic: Ash Crimson (Console)  (Read 57226 times)

Diavle

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2012, 04:43:17 AM »
Not forever, just 10 secs or so.

Ryujin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2012, 07:18:06 PM »
So I was messing around with Ash in the corner and found out you can quickly input  ;c ;a ;b  ;bk, roughly pianoing the inputs, and you can get s.C to b+B. Also, if you hit-confirm the s.C, you can quickly input ;c ;d before the b+B comes out to get Sans-Culotte.

Not sure how useful this is as an option-select, since the s.C needs to hit pretty close to the opponent, and you get pushed back some for Sans-Culotte so you need to start with something like d~u+B before doing the loop, but thought I'd share that finding.

Anyway, starting to get the Sans-Culotte corner loop consistently down - I'm still pretty green with him but the loops and HD potential are fun to pull off and watch. Regardless of where he ends up in the tier list, he's real fun to play.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 07:22:34 PM by Ryujin »
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Milln

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 02:32:18 AM »
So I'm a complete jerk when I play Ash, now.  I play as lame and annoying as possible and it works. I don't use super ball as liberally as I used to, since I'm now looking for things to EX Ventose on reaction. I realize he's got some good corner combos but I'm too busy zoning when they're in the corner to try and go for the hit-confirm.

Learning about how my opponent works mid-match makes Genie flames all the more fun.

Anyone recommend something I can drive cancel midscreen? Only thing I can think of is Caprice off of Nivose or EX Ventose off of Nivose.
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Aenthin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 09:37:07 AM »
Anyone recommend something I can drive cancel midscreen? Only thing I can think of is Caprice off of Nivose or EX Ventose off of Nivose.

That's pretty much it, I think. Well, actually, he can cancel his Caprice into Nivose but God knows how you can do that without Sans Culottes (though I'm guessing it's charge db,qcf+K [hold], uf). It's not a cancel but you can still combo EX Caprice into D Nivose. Nivose into Pluviose is a super cancel instead but works just the same. I haven't tested if EX Genie would combo midscreen after Caprice or Nivose. If it does, you could probably juggle them a bit longer.

Milln

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 08:10:08 PM »
It doesn't work off of a combo'd Nivose midscreen, either versions of Genie whiff. 

Didn't try off of Caprice, I'll check it tOnight and for practicality, thanks!
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sociald

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 01:21:05 PM »
there r shortcuts or motions who can make easier the part in sans culotte when u have to do  ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d like in trial 8 ?

Hayabusa

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
there r shortcuts or motions who can make easier the part in sans culotte when u have to do  ;dn ;up ;d, ;bk ;d, ;dn ;up ;b, ;bk ;d like in trial 8 ?


I didn't found any shortcut for those motions. The trick is to get the oponent close to the ground and use you muscle memory. After some pratice, it will became very natural and a useful combo. I pushed it online in some matches without droping, but i dont known until that combo is realible. If anyone knows a shortcut, i would like to know too...
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Diavle

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 04:47:15 PM »
What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 04:50:01 PM by Diavle »

Hayabusa

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 05:03:03 PM »
What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.

Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.
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Ryujin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 06:12:10 PM »
What's the easiest Sans-Culotte loop you guys know that works anywhere on the screen? I really suck at this.

Yeah, I'm curious to see what other people's uses for this are, especially at midscreen.

Right now for corner I'm using:
D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+D (whiff), [D Germinal Caprice, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+D (whiff)] x 3 (or maybe 4, don't remember), C Ventose, B Nivose
OR
[D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice, b+B (whiff), C Ventose] x 3, B/D Nivose

IIRC both of these also the first one does more damage than the crazy Trial #8 loop.

Midscreen feels so finicky, after the launch I'll get about flush a character length from the opponent, then I'll use [b+D, D Germinal Caprice with extra b+D whiff close to the corner] x n for corner carry. I can't get people to reverse direction as I want though - might have to try that B Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice loop for that.

EDIT: Actually on that note, what's a good way to go from Sans-Culotte to HD? In the corner I'm getting more consistent with HD to Sans or Sans to Sans but not Sans to HD.

EDIT2: Gahh so finicky at midscreen
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 06:51:51 AM by Ryujin »
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Milln

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2012, 12:15:31 AM »
You can HD off of  ;bk  ;d and go into your combo from there.   

I realize I should stop playing Ash cause all I do is troll matchups with flash kicks, projectiles, and lock downs and don't bother with combos or Sans Culotte 90% of the time, since thats whats most fun/successful for me.  I'll keep playing him until this stops working, I guess.
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Diavle

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2012, 05:52:12 AM »
Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.

Really appreciate the vid man, still can't do that but did take some pointers. With that combo the side on which the opponent lands after the first rep is inconsistent for me. Even if I start the second rep the D Germinal often misses.

After messing around a ton I found something I can do sort of consistently when starting with sB, b+B and then doing the super. After that I do D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice twice.

Now depending on where you are you gotta move on differently. If starting this combo at the opponent's starting point then you do one rep and the opponent is in the corner, so I do another rep and then the same rep until the super runs out but with B Nivose. After the last rep I do b+D, C Ventose and then finish with D Nivose. Does 406 dmg, is this considered good damage for this super?

If doing the same thing but way away from the other side of the screen (so the two first reps aren't enough to take the opponent to the corner) then after the second rep the opponent will switch sides and you gotta do the rep with B Nivose in the opposite direction, continue the reps from side to side until the last one and finish with the sealing super follow-up. Does 398 dmg.

The key that seems to make these possible is the distance created by starting with sB, b+B. If I try these by doing the super raw and point blank then the above doesn't seem to work quite as well.

That's all I got so far.




Hayabusa

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2012, 02:22:13 PM »
Hey man! Check this video: [KOF XIII] Ash Crimson : Sans-Culotte tutorial (English Version)
This one works very fine, and its very easy to pull off.

Really appreciate the vid man, still can't do that but did take some pointers. With that combo the side on which the opponent lands after the first rep is inconsistent for me. Even if I start the second rep the D Germinal often misses.

After messing around a ton I found something I can do sort of consistently when starting with sB, b+B and then doing the super. After that I do D Nivose, b+D, D Germinal Caprice twice.

Now depending on where you are you gotta move on differently. If starting this combo at the opponent's starting point then you do one rep and the opponent is in the corner, so I do another rep and then the same rep until the super runs out but with B Nivose. After the last rep I do b+D, C Ventose and then finish with D Nivose. Does 406 dmg, is this considered good damage for this super?

If doing the same thing but way away from the other side of the screen (so the two first reps aren't enough to take the opponent to the corner) then after the second rep the opponent will switch sides and you gotta do the rep with B Nivose in the opposite direction, continue the reps from side to side until the last one and finish with the sealing super follow-up. Does 398 dmg.

The key that seems to make these possible is the distance created by starting with sB, b+B. If I try these by doing the super raw and point blank then the above doesn't seem to work quite as well.

That's all I got so far.





I see, man. well, there is this problem with the distance, that way u mentioned (sb, b+B) is a good way to start the Sans Cullote, u could do a crouching+b, b+B too, i prefer cause it gives u a litlle more range to begin the combo, and also hits the first hit low like the stand version.  But, if u want to carry the oponent without changing sides, try to incorporate the b+C or b+D after the Germinal Capr. u will recovery fast and the oponnet will fall in front of you, like the corner loop. If u anti-air someone with SC, try to to the combo loop finshing with b+D. This way u will maintain the oponent always in front of you, it works well with b+B, but the timing is more restrict cause your recovery is slower. I can't tell what version is better for the loop, u need to calculate the space, and get used to it. This way u will be capable off carry the oponent to the corner and go for the HD mode combos to get some really HIGH damage. I prefer to SC the oponent near corner, cause u can get 5 repetitions of the loop and finsh with an C Ventose, 2 back+D and finishing with a D nivose or CD. if you got HD meter do the C ventose back+D and HD mode. With this u can use the best Ash HD corner combo (the one with A Ventose, C Ventose, b+D and so on...) and, if u got bar, finish with the Pluivose, or even with the Fructidor (cancel the D Nivose into the Neomax) The problem is, u need 4 bars, so i only do this when messing around, in offline play to joke =)...

As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+C or D cancels on the SC loop.

imo, Sans cullotte combos are about get used to the inputs and pay atention on the distances that u take your oponent. If u get used to this, in no time u be able to take your oponnet to the corner very easily without droping problems, or just messing with him changing sides. Hope that i helped u a litlle =)
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Ryujin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2012, 05:58:18 PM »
As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+B or D cancels on the SC loop.

Keep in mind though that Sans-Culotte scaling is now 50% versus 60%, so 400 is actually pretty high for that loop. I did a calculation on that video loop and if I did the math right that same loop now does 436 damage. Still really solid damage for 2 meters and starting from a cr.B, b+B.

It's hard to keep track of all the options available, so I've actually had a little spreadsheet to help figure out damage you can get in Sans-Culotte. Might be a bit picky, but we oughta grind as much damage out as possible, right?  :)
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Hayabusa

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 06:35:33 PM »
As u asked about the damage, 403 is an good amount of damage for the super, but in corner, u can go for almost 500 of damage. Try the loop, always canceling the last Nivose with back+D, and after the last repetitions go for C Ventose, b+D, dash a little, b+D and D Nivose. Take an look at this video: KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo
Its the outdated arcade version, but u still can pull these ash combos. With will help u seing the time of the b+B or D cancels on the SC loop.

Keep in mind though that Sans-Culotte scaling is now 50% versus 60%, so 400 is actually pretty high for that loop. I did a calculation on that video loop and if I did the math right that same loop now does 436 damage. Still really solid damage for 2 meters and starting from a cr.B, b+B.

It's hard to keep track of all the options available, so I've actually had a little spreadsheet to help figure out damage you can get in Sans-Culotte. Might be a bit picky, but we oughta grind as much damage out as possible, right?  :)

For sure man =) ... there are tons of options avalibele and that would be a hard task... I will se if i can get some time to figure alt SC combos damage... But, IMO, the best loop for real matches would be that one on the videos.. cause its easier and very realible, as u said, the damage is high for 2 bars... If u get, for instance, those ones from missons (d, u+D - b+D - d, u+C - b+D - d, u+B), they are kind of cool and very damaging, but kind of hard too cause they have a very, very restrict timing to being done... I like to mix that one with D Ventose, to get a litlle time to breathe  ;) .... One thing is sure, when u get the execition time well, Ash became one of the most fun chars to be played  :)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 06:40:37 PM by Hayabusa »
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