Author Topic: King (Console)  (Read 61670 times)

nilcam

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King (Console)
« on: December 06, 2011, 05:59:16 AM »


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible

Throws
Hook Buster - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d

Command Moves
Slide Kick - ;df + ;d

Special Moves
Trap Shot - ;fd ;dn ;df ;b /  ;d *

Venom Strike - ;dn ;df ;fd ;b or  ;d * (can be done in air)

Tornado Kick '95 - ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;b /  ;d *

Desperation Moves
Double Strike - ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd  ;b /  ;d

Surprise Rose - ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;a /  ;c *

Neomax
Venom Shot - ;dn ;db ;bk ;dn ;db ;bk ;b+ ;d

King's Wiki entry.

Console changes:
- (shown in video) Jump D stays out longer
- (shown in video) close C has faster startup
- (shown in video) D Venom Strike (air) has a smaller recoil
- far D has less lag
- (shown in video) Slide can be cancelled without being cancelled into

Producer Yamamoto says: We focused on her normals mainly. Although the number of changes are few, it will change gameplay significantly as normals are used most often. Her slide is a great low move and since her close HP {s.C} isn’t affected by scaling easily, please us it often as a combo starter.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:24:02 PM by nilcam »

nilcam

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 05:59:40 AM »
Reserved
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:24:10 PM by nilcam »

nilcam

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 05:59:53 AM »
Reserved
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:24:18 PM by nilcam »

Raynex

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 07:07:30 AM »
I christen thee: The New King Thread!

Perhaps some optimized HD combos to start?

[Near Corner] st.D, df+D [HD activate] st.C, df+D, hcb+D (2) [HDC] air qcf+BD, dash (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3

Enders:

*w/ 1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)
*w/ 3 Bar - hcb+D, qcfx2+AC

If you have two bars before the HD combo, do the old dp+B [HDC] hcb+B x4 loop and end with hcb+D, qcfx2+AC.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 03:50:48 AM by Raynex »
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 02:51:41 AM »
air qcb+BD

Enders:

*1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)

Typos?
or does air qcb+BD actually do something?

and why is qcf+B>c.C listed as 1 bar?

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 02:54:32 AM »
air qcb+BD

Enders:

*1 Bar - qcf+B, cr.C (Reset)

Typos?
or does air qcb+BD actually do something?

and why is qcf+B>c.C listed as 1 bar?



He's saying one bar for the entire combo, in which you've already spent a bar for doing EX Venom Strike.
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 03:48:05 AM »
My bad, I meant qcf+BD (EX Venom Strike). The enders are 1 bar and 3 bar when combined with the combo starter above them. I'll correct it.
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 08:02:26 AM »
i see i see, that was a bit derpy on my part lol.
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Raynex

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 11:45:03 AM »
I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 06:45:43 PM »
I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!

Awesome find! I keep forgetting about using crouching lows to shrink hurtboxes, and the slide's no exception - going to run that through tonight's training mode time for sure.

Also as far as the HD combos go, that's cool you can continue from hcb+D with air EX Venom Strike. I also know for 3 bars you can get an ender of (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3, Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose, though you sacrifice the earlier hcb+D for an hcb+B and the air EX Venom Strike for that. I'll check which variations work best for the 1, 2, and 3 meter cases - though you may have already figured that out.

EDIT: nvm, checked the wiki and the pathway you listed always does more damage.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 09:40:13 PM by Ryujin »
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 10:52:51 PM »
While I love King, I have some anti-King questions :P

1.) What are the best ways to escape the corner if she does a block like cr.b, st.b, d/f b, venom strike? she is far enough to catch rolls, and jumping isn't the best idea :S

2.) Is the best way to deal with her fireballs mid-screen to roll through the fast ones and neu. jump the slow ones? or eagle eye with moves?

3.) Are there any other strats/shenanigans to help with the matchup?

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 12:01:11 AM »
I've just discovered the magic of AAing with df+D. It's absolutely GDLK. Her body hurtbox drops down so low she avoids pretty much everything airborne, and gets a free combo. Also, I had no idea qcfx2+A was invincible. I thought only the EX version was!

Awesome find! I keep forgetting about using crouching lows to shrink hurtboxes, and the slide's no exception - going to run that through tonight's training mode time for sure.

Also as far as the HD combos go, that's cool you can continue from hcb+D with air EX Venom Strike. I also know for 3 bars you can get an ender of (dp+B [HDC] hcb+B)x3, Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose, though you sacrifice the earlier hcb+D for an hcb+B and the air EX Venom Strike for that. I'll check which variations work best for the 1, 2, and 3 meter cases - though you may have already figured that out.

EDIT: nvm, checked the wiki and the pathway you listed always does more damage.

Yup. HD combo into Double Strike, EX Surprise Rose ender is harder to time + weaker. Doing hcb+D HDC EX Venom Strike at the beginning of King's combos usually yields the best damage. This goes for even her 2 bar 50% corner combos too!

While I love King, I have some anti-King questions :P

1.) What are the best ways to escape the corner if she does a block like cr.b, st.b, d/f b, venom strike? she is far enough to catch rolls, and jumping isn't the best idea :S

2.) Is the best way to deal with her fireballs mid-screen to roll through the fast ones and neu. jump the slow ones? or eagle eye with moves?

3.) Are there any other strats/shenanigans to help with the matchup?

1) On King's end, corner pressure boils down to will they jump/won't they. King's main AAs (st.C, st.D) have very high hitboxes which make it easy to cover jump space in front of her. The main weakness of this pressure is that  King can't cover both jumping and rolling simultaneously, even if she waits . If King thinks you'll jump, she hits st.C/st.D because it HAS to be done preemptively. Because of its hitbox, her feet are vulnerable to sweeps and cr.Bs. Rolling at this point is also great, because her attacks aren't the fastest and she can't punish you. Some Kings, myself included, use B Tornado Kick in addition to st.C/st.D to catch jumps + start a combo. If you do nothing and crouch, the second hit of B Tornado Kick whiffs for a full combo.

2) King, unlike Kensou/Athena/Mai, can't chase her fireballs well. If you roll through a fast fireball (this version has the most recovery), she usually can't punish you. This is probably distance dependent, but try it out. Jumping is actually Venom Strike's biggest weaknesses. It's pretty bad on recovery, and you can get full combos if you anticipate it. The obvious problem here is that she can fake it and AA you, and then recycle this strategy until you die. Her strength is her zoning, but she has poor defense. You have to make good reads with a combination of rolls/jumps/invincible moves to break through it and take advantage of that. I wouldn't recommend rolling through the slow Venom Strikes...as I'm sure D Tornado Kick can punish you from miles away.

3) Rush that shit down. She is free on defense with no meter, ala Rufus from SF4. Her only reversal options are Surprise Rose and EX Trap Shot. You can use this to your advantage and work on her guard gauge until it depletes.

These are simply opinions on what I'd do if I were facing a King. Feel free to watch videos or experiment in training mode+record to find better answers yourself.  :)
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 08:22:06 PM »
Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner. 

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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 11:43:20 AM »
Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner.  

haha yeah I know it's rough, but you can do it man. I believe in you!

If getting out of King's great corner pressure was as easy as cycling through 1 or 2 staple options, it wouldn't be very effective pressure. You're going to have to work to get out and make a good read or two. That's just how standard corner offense works in most fighters. It's not as simple as option A = you're out. You have to push forward in increments: hit a sweep, tag a high AA attempt with a quick low or armored/invul move, maybe even walk forward and throw. Your escape has to cater not only to the situation but to your opponent. King's post slide xx Venom strike pressure has holes, you just have to work at finding them.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 12:11:42 PM by Raynex »
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Re: King (Console)
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 06:11:53 AM »
Thanks, but i'm looking for staple answers that don't involve me having to make a 50/50 guess and potentially losing 1/3 of my life and being back in the corner.  

haha yeah I know it's rough, but you can do it man. I believe in you!

If getting out of King's great corner pressure was as easy as cycling through 1 or 2 staple options, it wouldn't be very effective pressure. You're going to have to work to get out and make a good read or two. That's just how standard corner offense works in most fighters. It's not as simple as option A = you're out. You have to push forward in increments: hit a sweep, tag a high AA attempt with a quick low or armored/invul move, maybe even walk forward and throw. Your escape has to cater not only to the situation but to your opponent. King's post slide xx Venom strike pressure has holes, you just have to work at finding them.

That's all I needed to know, thank you.