Author Topic: Mai Shiranui (Console)  (Read 88438 times)

Kokujindayo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2011, 07:18:41 AM »
Not sure if this is the right place to post this kind of question, but how is Mai supposed to be played? I play her more like a zoning character than anything, mainly using her s.d for pokes. If they get in close usually I try to create more space inbetween me and my opponent and start throwing fans. In short I usually wait for my opponent to make mistakes then i attempt to capitalize on a high damaging punishment (which usually doesn't work out).

She is my anchor atm, so if I have the HD and meter I will usually burn it on a simple HD combo into neomax. Ith a team consisting of mai, yuri, and athena would it be better to put her as a point character?

Keep in mind this is my first KoF game so any type of criticism is appreciated, also I can post some vids if this will help? Sorry for the long post but, I really am trying to get good at this game and dont want to develop bad habits early on.

Thanks  :)

Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2011, 06:25:10 PM »
Not sure if this is the right place to post this kind of question, but how is Mai supposed to be played? I play her more like a zoning character than anything, mainly using her s.d for pokes. If they get in close usually I try to create more space inbetween me and my opponent and start throwing fans. In short I usually wait for my opponent to make mistakes then i attempt to capitalize on a high damaging punishment (which usually doesn't work out).

Yeah, that's pretty much how she's supposed to be played. I compare Mai a lot to Chun-Li in Street Fighter IV because she's really more of a poking/footsie type of character more than anything. Like you said, st.D is one of your best pokes to use during ground game as well as cr.D xx A Kachosen (which is safe now because of the A Kachosen buff in console ver.). As for anti-airs, st.C can act as a pseudo anti-air if you see a jump coming, but your best bet is to meet them in the air because of Mai's high priority normals while jumping. Her best moves while jumping are j.CD, j.C and Air Throw because of their sick priorities. So yeah, in short, create space between you in your opponent so that your ground pokes can hit and you are able to see a short/hyper hop coming and anti-air with st.A/st.C/st.D. This is Mai's best gameplan until you get them cornered and start doing big damage off mixups/corner pressure/mistakes.

She is my anchor atm, so if I have the HD and meter I will usually burn it on a simple HD combo into neomax. Ith a team consisting of mai, yuri, and athena would it be better to put her as a point character?

A lot of people like using her as an anchor because of the new NeoMax buff she received in console version. Now that it comes out faster and freezes time, with 3 stocks + 2 Drive meter you can punish almost any whiffed moves from full screen for 45%. In my opinion, even with this buff, I still believe that she's best played as a battery but at the end of the day, it really depends on who she is paired with. Like in your case, I would also place her as an anchor because Athena can play the battery role (she doesn't really need meter to be annoying with) and Yuri benefits a lot from Drive meter. So if it was me, I would place them like that: Athena/Yuri/Mai.


Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2011, 10:14:58 PM »
Honestly, most of Mai's jumping normals aren't at their normal strength in this game. A lot of times for anti-air, I actually meet greater success using far C/close C for normal jumps and stand D for anticipated low jumps (be careful...you jump the gun on this move and your hitbox is out 5 miles in front of you...really annoying for characters who pull their vulnerable hitboxes up real high when they do early low jump attacks).

Far C is good (better than I initially gave it credit for), but you need enough breathing room to backpedal to make it work. Close C has the same kind of problem in reverse; you need to be in a situation where you can safely walk up a bit to make sure you hit with it (and don't either whiff or get an unintended far C, and lose the exchange). It depends on the character you're fighting; Shen and K` jump-ins in particular are a real pain to beat with Mai's attacks.

For air-to-air, one normal that really surprised me is her new (for XIII) j. A. Lots of horizontal range, good speed, and shittons of active frames. A really great air-to-air interrupt for situations where j. D and j. CD would miss or lose (which is unfortunately often). Her j. D in particular is really lacking in this game as an air-to-air; really poor compromise of startup and range. j. B is a little better off, but still tends to lose a lot.

------------------------------------------

As for Mai as battery...I for one re-evaluated her more as a 2nd/3rd character because of a change in philosophy. Batteries aren't just for building meter, they should also be characters who can do a decent amount of damage without meter. The idea with a battery character isn't just to run around and build meter, the idea is that if necessary you can OCV with this character.

Mai has a lot of mobility, but her already low damage is really pitiful without meter. Couple that with her difficult anti-air and poor reversal options, and she's kinda poorly equipped to KILL anyone as a battery. Stall, maybe, which will get the job done against poor/impatient players. But KILLING, against players who are strong and patient enough to get past the fans and start strangling Mai in the corner, she's kinda lacking.

By contrast, you put somebody like Kyo (either one) first and start bludgeoning people with stupid hit-confirms into running grab and corner rekka combos, you get both meter and damage to play with. If he doesn't die, he just snowballs into a stupid fiery OCV. If he dies, Mai comes in with meter that drastically changes how the opponent looks at her, especially if Kyo really put a hurting on the opponent to start.

You don't lose Mai to the first rush because she has counter roll and CD counters to get out of tight spots. And if the opponent was gonna turtle up with a zoning 2nd/3rd and Mai has enough meter for NeoMAX, all of a sudden they have to stop throwing fireballs and approach Mai VERY carefully if they don't want to lose 50% life on the spot.

This is an INCREDIBLE psychological advantage for a character like Mai that struggles so hard against constant pressure. Especially great for zoning battles, because from 3/4 screen or longer, it means many characters no longer get to do anything but walk and block against Mai fireballs. Kula or Shen (if you're quick) projectile counter against fan = NeoMAX. High jump = NeoMAX. Late roll = NeoMAX. And if the opponent's fear is great enough, you can stall almost indefinitely with rapid-fire A fans and vertical jump normals/fakeouts. Reading your opponent's tendencies suddenly becomes 10x easier, because the threat of NeoMAX controls their rational reactions.

So the tl;dr is that the way Mai is designed in THIS game, IMO she's better off 2nd or 3rd than 1st. She requires a different approach from the traditional KOF Mai if you don't want her to be just a seat filler on your team. If you just want an annoying runaway battery, Kensou and Athena are probably better for that role IMO. Athena has better anti-airs and jumping normals, and Kensou has better meterless damage and a really stupid corner trap.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 10:17:29 PM by Ben Reed »

Kokujindayo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2011, 11:07:27 PM »
Wow, great amount of detailed information from both of you. I really appreciate it

I'll be sure to take the advice given to me and use it well.
Also, maybe I could start a Mai critique thread? Seeing as how we don't have one here yet.

Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2011, 11:36:12 PM »
snip

Yeah, I kinda agree with you about Mai being a very good anchor now that I tried her out a couple of times during casuals. I used to run Mai/Yuri/Leona at first, but when I placed her last, I noticed I was using all my meters to a much better use than when I was using Leona as an anchor. She's definitely a good comeback character when placed last.

sibarraz

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2011, 08:31:31 PM »
Following some of the advices here I realized that mai is a really good anchor

One funny moment, yesterday I made a semi comeback against and Andy after I threw him a fan, he went to counter status, did the neomax and pum win

I was impressed since it was really easy to hit confirm


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milesw

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2011, 12:19:00 AM »

She is my anchor atm, so if I have the HD and meter I will usually burn it on a simple HD combo into neomax. Ith a team consisting of mai, yuri, and athena would it be better to put her as a point character?

I use Mai 2nd place In every team i play.

The reason I put Mai is second is because I usually aim to get lots of meter with my yuri filling the role of meter building, general annoyance and if she has already killed the first character and has weakened the 2nd to about 40% health I'd just play dry and go out whiffing saiha's for mai who comes second.

At this point my mai would have just enough meter for 3 bars or 3 bars exactly.
At this point I would play heavily dry. If the opponent is smart they will see I am neomax ready for anything  they do and they will be forced to sit tight.
There I can just chuck kachousen, whiff ryuenbu for meter and taunt abit :p to get about 4 bars.

Then nuke em if they get outta line.  ;) If i get a cr.b hit confirm midscreen I would go for a HD combo that is 3 bars max.

And off topic..
 AMEBA PIGGUUUUUUU


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Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2011, 03:23:43 PM »
Hmm Mai's neomax is good and all but its not like she has good damage potential without meter, its actually pretty bad. So are her defensive options, of which she has none without meter.

So if I were to play your anchor Mai and forced you to blow meter on me via a neomax, whether it connects or not, wouldn't that put you guys into a tight spot? Especially if I have another character after.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 04:47:59 PM by Diavle »

Kokujindayo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2011, 04:30:16 PM »
Hmm Mai's neomax is good and all but its not like she has good damage potential without meter, its actually pretty bad. So are her defensive options, of which see has none without meter.

So if I were to play your anchor Mai and forced you to blow meter on me via a neomax, whether it connects or not, wouldn't that put you guys into a tight spot? Especially if I have another character after.

Over the course of the week (maybe its because I've been forced to play online), my Athena has actually been doing the majority of the work while my Mai hasn't really been doing anything. With the addition of dropped combos, dropped neomax combos and so forth there are 2 things I've considered... Maybe I should spend a little more time practicing with her, but whenever I do hit up training mode I kind of run out of ideas of what exactly to practice with her. To me she does have potential as far as huge damage and mix up opportunities are concerned, but I haven't figured out exactly what to do as far as a 100% HD combo is concerned. So this leads me to my next point which is maybe I need to consider switching orders. Athena/Mai/Yuri is starting to sound more deadly atm

snip

What's a good midscreen HD combo? Also, I do like the fact that you use neomax to punish anything as a way to keep them in check. I will keep working on my team placement, since this seems to be pretty important as far as how the match will turn out.

Also, ameba pigu is amazing! Too bad I haven't used it in like 4 months haha.

milesw

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2011, 06:47:23 PM »
the combo video by kazuhiro on the previous page for example has good midscreen HD combos for mai.
Mai's neomax is too good not to be used. Plus the psychological impact it has on opponents is really really exploitable.



off topic
I used pigg quite abit when I was living in Osaka. But mixi>>pigg tbh
lmao
Edit: and LOL @ your username

« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 07:02:01 PM by milesw »
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Kokujindayo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2011, 07:09:50 PM »
Oh ok, didn't even see that video. Thanks

Haha, I like using the little chat thing amepigu has but indeed mixi>ameba. How long were you in Osaka for?

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 03:44:00 AM »
I happen to spend a lot of meter... So my team of Billy, Ralf, Mai works out pretty well... I've been using Mai as anchor recently... While she is very good, I do find a problem with Mai anchor...

Pros -

- If it's the final round and Mai catches you with an HD combo then you are well off... She can do easy 60% mid-screen and up to 90% in the corner...

- If the opponent has 45% life or less and you have HD then it's pretty much game over... Just bait anything, literally anything (I caught someone throwing out a cr.A) and if you read it right then it's game over...

Cons -

- If you have no meter then it's kind of hopeless against any character with reversal options and meter to spend... Even if they throw out 3 blocked/whiffed reversals, Mai can't kill them with no meter...

- If it's the opponents second last character you can't afford to blow all your meter or you'll have no meter to fight the last character...

- If it's the last round you can't just throw out a Neomax punish if they are at full life... If you do so then you have to still take out 55% with nothing really scary at your arsenal...
KOFXIII - Raiden, Billy, Mai, Karate, Kim, Ralf, Ryo, Robert

SC 1-5 - Astaroth

SaMsTarOth t3h mAsTarOth of AsTarOth...!

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 05:12:55 PM »
I made a video for Mai's various HD combos... :D

KOF XIII - Mai Shiranui HD Combo Goodies
KOFXIII - Raiden, Billy, Mai, Karate, Kim, Ralf, Ryo, Robert

SC 1-5 - Astaroth

SaMsTarOth t3h mAsTarOth of AsTarOth...!

Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 06:10:23 AM »
The other underlying theory behind Mai anchor, I think, is to have scary characters preceding her. Put people in front of her who do a lot of damage for no meter, preferably ones who are both difficult to attack and defend regardless of how much meter they have.

To illustrate this theory, my current team is Clark/EX Kyo/Mai. The order might seem out of whack by conventional KOF logic, but here's the method to my madness:

Clark is first because he does a LOT of damage WITH meter, but he also does a serviceable amount of damage without meter (BnB into backbreaker), and more importantly, he is also the most mentally aggravating (IMO) of my three characters to fight. He has a 1-frame punish with hcf+D to defend against sloppy jump-ins. He has stupid loop-play shenanigans with hcf+B against opponents who freeze up or poke predictably. He has easy safe-jumps, a stupid good jump jab, a good jump D, a decent reaching punish with charge b,f+A that leads to resets into MORE stupid throw shenanigans. His only significant limitation is his attack range, which IMO is another good reason to put him earlier rather than later. If he dies early, I don't have to fight a zoning anchor with him, but with Kyo and Mai who are either better equipped to get in, or in Mai's case, better equipped to stay out. He's there to get in there, mess with the opponent, get them into a Clark-fighting mode, and do as much damage as he can for no meter before he dies. He's a much better experimental character than Mai because he can be either orthodox or random as fuck. He fucks with people. Plays stupid head games. Makes them mad.

EX Kyo is second because he's more orthodox than Clark, with a lot of the same damage input and a slightly better time against zoners. He can't experiment (in the Joseph Mengele sense) as well as Clark can, so he should come in when I'm (ideally) already up a bit. He corners people easily and thus gives me a lot of tactical room to think about whether or not I need meter to kill somebody ("Do I need that mid-screen DC or super to finish him off...or will he just die from corner mixup/pressure when he wakes up?". In 90% of player matchup cases, he will probably kill a 2nd character before he dies (if he doesn't win the match for me outright), which gives him a long enough lifespan to refund most of the meter he'll spend for Mai's sake.

Mai comes last because she NEEDS that meter just to stay afloat, and because IMO she is a good counter to most CONSERVATIVE anchor play. You can still beat her most easily by rushing her down smartly (if only to make her spend her meter to get away), but you have to do so with a lot more caution if she has NeoMAX. And if you get too careful against my anchor Mai, that's my cue to go kinda nuts, throwing safely spaced Kacho Sens to force you to get the fuck in my face and stop those goddamn fans...but CAREFULLY. Because I probably have NeoMAX. You can't do anything rash, and that makes it a LOT easier to play chicken with somebody creeping up on me rather than charging at me. Anything that makes my opponent move slower is to my advantage.

This of course all hinges on whether or not Mai has meter for NeoMAX stocked when she comes in. While it's a lot harder to hold it down if she doesn't, I believe the rest of my team is equipped to either live long enough to grant her that meter, or (even better) win without her even having to play. Her success is largely contingent on how well EX Kyo and Clark do. I'm totally okay with this.

That said, I'm not married to anchor Mai. Depending on the player/matchup, I might put her 2nd and EX Kyo 3rd. But if my opponent has a team that's 2/3-3/3 fireball characters, you better believe I'm putting Mai last. Fighting Ash without that NeoMAX is fun like cancer. Every time Mai's NeoMAX blows up an EX Sonic Boom or blocked Flash Kick, an angel gets its wings.

Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 03:22:16 PM »
Meh, sounds like you are hiding behind the neomax.

I'll always run her first, I have confidence in her trouble making skills with or without meter. And I can only play her in a risky/carefree style properly if I know there are two more waiting in the sidelines to finish the job.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 03:37:05 PM by Diavle »