Author Topic: Mai Shiranui (Console)  (Read 88432 times)

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2012, 02:47:39 AM »
I'm changing my team to Billy, Mai, Saiki...

Billy is a lot stronger than Mai as battery... As soon as he gets 1 meter he can scare the opponent with EX dp+K... That shit beats literally everything in the game and starts combos which you can build meter back with... Lets not talk about how fast he builds meter either...

Mai second cause I'm really consistent with her HD combos... Since Billy usually leaves me with a full HD and 2-3 bars to start with, I'll always have enough to land an HD combo with Mai... Even if I spend it on a raw Neomax then I'll still most likely build back quite a bit of meter with her before she dies...

Saiki last cause this guy is scary as shit with meter... You can't zone this guy and you can't pressure him either... He has every option in the game with meter... If you try to rush him down then he'll either anti-air you with his Kick DM or EX DM you and gain 75 life back in the process... EX DM is also a pressure tool... He has a really good cross-up... He can HD bypass to Grab DM > Neomax... Last but not least, god forbid if I catch you with an HD combo and I have 2-3 meter (if it's in the corner then you are dead from full life)... Saiki is too good...
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Ben Reed

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2012, 07:58:40 AM »
Meh, sounds like you are hiding behind the neomax.

I'm not "hiding" behind it. It's simply the baseline from which my strategy proceeds.

If the opponent is dumb enough to fall for the baseline trap of "do a move to counter the fan, and NeoMAX punishes the recovery", then fine, I'll roll with it. But if I know or highly suspect the opponent is smarter than that (and the people I play against ARE getting smarter, which I'm very glad for), then I use the mild mental tension caused by that strategic understanding to my advantage and proceed with "traditional" Mai play. I am NOT passive for the sake of being passive. I know there's more to making the opponent twitch than fan spam -- it's just a whole lot easier to turn the tension of the match to your advantage when the opponent knows, at least on paper, that they can't be reckless when your bars hit a certain amount. Those few extra frames of time to think and execute make all the difference in a tense match with a character who's not especially fearsome.

I don't just sit and WAIT for NeoMAX opportunities, I use that fear to predict what my opponent will do to AVOID the trap (or in low-level situations, fail entirely to see it), and respond to THOSE actions. It's far less about actually LANDING the thing than it is about controlling the opponent's potential responses. Mai's stalling jokes ("ha ha, you got anti-aired by a paper fan") become a lot less funny when NeoMAX is the punchline.

I know under "conventional" KOF wisdom, putting Mai last sounds kind of crazy or counterproductive. But here's the thing -- it wasn't even my idea. A veteran CvS2 player (and real cheap bastard) proposed it to me at a casuals session one night. I thought he was full of shit and followed his suggestion just to prove him wrong. And a couple of Kyo OCVs (I put him first) and well-placed Mai NeoMAXes later, I ended up proving exactly his point. It finally dawned on me that this is a brand new KOF, not just 2k2UM part 2. Mai is a very different character in this game, both for bad (relative damage output, certain normals) and for good (NeoMAX). New ideas HAVE to be given a fair shot in this weird new world.

Now let's get this straight, I'm not saying Mai anchor is the greatest thing since sliced bread (she's not), or that only fools put her first these days (she's still okay 1st, just not as good as she usually is). I'm just saying it's a new and (IMO) surprisingly valid new way to look at the character for KOF 13, especially if you're like me and like the character, but haven't been getting ideal returns with her as 1st.

tl;dr: Don't knock it till you've tried it. If you've actually given it a fair try like Mastaroth has...knock away.

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2012, 12:14:12 PM »
Ya since the game came out, Mai has become my favourite character... I've tried playing her on every part on the team...

I got good AND bad results putting Mai on point... I land LOTS of hits with her... Piss off my opponent to death... BUT I can barely do any damage and I got NOOO reversals without gaining 2 meter and I am FORCED to play carefully...

Mai on 2nd? Totally different story... I got enough meter (2-3 bars and HD is all i need)... Pretty much any mistake by the opponent is an easy 45% Neomax punish or better an 80% HD combo... AND I still get to piss off my opponent to death...

Mai on anchor... I posted about this earlier... It's a high risk vs. high reward game, but then any "anchor vs. anchor" is the same so it's just up to the player's preference...
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milesw

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2012, 02:07:35 PM »
Heres my view...

I ran Mai first initially.
She is a great battery for sure.
But heres the problems/advantages I encountered....

1ST PLACE
-Poor damage without meter(I would only try to use one bar max in the first round with my point characters)

-no reversal without meter

-if she gets rushed down shes dead
 
+great battery (if you're fightng a zoner and they wanna spam projectiles at you? Reply to them by absorbing them with A ryuenbu for that good meter, Then they'll get pissed off and COME TO YOU)

+great zoner for keeping people out/great rush down
Got an opponent in the corner? far St.C is GOD, and CDxx A fan are great pressure tools for locking down your opponent and forcing them to take risks to get out such as CD roll/counter or reversals that requre meter.

2ND PLACE
+Guaranteed neomax most of the time(opponent will not wanna move)

+enough meter to do damage if you get that hit confirm(if they dont wanna move coz of neomax you can either turtle and spam more or rush down into a nice combo)

++all the previous advantages mentioned above

-if you have used neomax you have crippled your anchor character and mai if the NM didnt kill

3RD PLACE

Never ran her here. But Im unconfident about it because her damage is meh with meter anyway and I dont have faith in her being able to REVERSE OCV better than any other character I would place there.

I prefer having her 2nd.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 03:32:34 PM by milesw »
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Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2012, 03:52:49 PM »
Lets take Shen for example. With 1 meter you can do almost 40% damage. With no meter he does over 250 damage. In the corner you can take over 40% with just 1 drive bar. Start adding more bars and drive and this guy's damage is through the roof. With HD you can easily dish aver 65% meterless damage, add in a couple of meters and it goes to over 80%. Even having just one power bar makes him a huge threat to approach or do anything stupid around thanks to his super. Why would I pick Mai over him as 2nd, or 3rd? Why wouldn't I use Mai to build that meter for him while being highly effective as a zoner and footsie character? Same with Chin.

Point is, she's not the only one that's good with meter. I like her because of what she can do without meter, or with very little of it. Everyone becomes better with meter, its not really an argument.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 04:21:30 PM by Diavle »

hiltzy85

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2012, 06:57:42 PM »
I tend to run out Andy/Mai/Iori or Mai/Andy/Iori (sometimes EX Iori).  I can't decide who I like coming out first better (between Andy and Mai).  I would say that Andy is probably better with no meter due to cr.B, st.B, st.D xx fireball being so good.  The problem I run into, though, is that I tend to use meter with him when I have it (even when he is first) because I have a hard time remembering not to do qcf+BD combos in to the corner.  He is pretty much good at the same things as Mai is, but I guess slightly better at defense, due to his EX dp being invincible.  I like his air CD better than Mai's, too.
In my opinion, they are kind of interchangeable, but that Mai may be more useful second (in the teams I mentioned, anyway).  I feel like she gets a bigger boost to her output by having some drive bar to use than Andy does, and she still builds meter well if I choose to do so.  Even if I don't have a ton of meter left for Iori at the end, claw Iori can still do a ton of damage in HD with even 1 stock (like 800+ as long as they even remotely near the corner), and he builds meter pretty fast himself
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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2012, 08:21:46 PM »
Oh for your team I would say Andy, Mai, Iori is best... Andy builds meter like a beast... On top of that he does NOT need meter to do damage... BTW don't use EX hcf+K in combos, specially in the corner...

j.D, s.C, f+A, hcf+B~AB, d/b~f+A, d/b~f+A, dp+A, DC, hcf+B~AB, d/b~f+A, d/b~f+AC, dp+C = 512 dmg

That builds you more than 1 meter and 25% drive bar... Mid-screen you don't need to spend meter with him in combos since he's your battery cause he already does high damage without it...
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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2012, 10:07:48 PM »
What are Mai's best/most practical midscreen and corner HD combos?

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2012, 10:32:48 PM »
What are Mai's best/most practical midscreen and corner HD combos?
These are what I found out to be most reliable and consistent for me...
KOF XIII - Mai Shiranui HD Combo Goodies
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 10:34:48 PM by t3h mAsTarOth...! »
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mightfo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2012, 11:52:51 PM »
Lets take Shen for example. With 1 meter you can do almost 40% damage. With no meter he does over 250 damage. In the corner you can take over 40% with just 1 drive bar. Start adding more bars and drive and this guy's damage is through the roof. With HD you can easily dish aver 65% meterless damage, add in a couple of meters and it goes to over 80%. Even having just one power bar makes him a huge threat to approach or do anything stupid around thanks to his super. Why would I pick Mai over him as 2nd, or 3rd? Why wouldn't I use Mai to build that meter for him while being highly effective as a zoner and footsie character? Same with Chin.

Point is, she's not the only one that's good with meter. I like her because of what she can do without meter, or with very little of it. Everyone becomes better with meter, its not really an argument.

Shen's damage isn't a neutral option. It is a result of getting in and landing crouching LK or close HP or jump HK or whatever. Mai's neomax changes the entire situation in neutral. Meter spending isnt just about damage, it is also about options added and removed.
Also, mai can also do over 40% in the corner with just 1 bar, and it is not hard to get someone to the corner in this game.
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Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2012, 12:34:54 AM »
You mean like the options Shen gets with his punch super? Or the 2 frame ex version? How you can use 2 or three  of them (3 normal or 1 normal and 1 ex) for less than the price of a neomax? Or how they counter wire on counter? Or how about the invincibility/armor on the ex version of qcf+P? Or the reversal possibilities gained via ex command grab?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 01:47:59 AM by Diavle »

Kazuhiro

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2012, 03:58:16 AM »
Personally, I think Mai's best placement in a team depends on who she is paired with. If she is paired with characters that can play the battery role, then I'd say that she fits better in the anchor spot. Battery Mai is good, but she's certainly not the best in the department and besides the threat she can create when she has full meter/stocks and played as anchor is pretty much unique to herself, so I would use that ability if another character can fit the battery role slightly better or even a little less effective than Mai's capabilities. In the other hand, if the other two in the team are very meter hungry characters, then I'd put Mai 1st and build meter for the others.

mightfo

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2012, 08:50:01 AM »
You mean like the options Shen gets with his punch super? Or the 2 frame ex version? How you can use 2 or three  of them (3 normal or 1 normal and 1 ex) for less than the price of a neomax? Or how they counter wire on counter? Or how about the invincibility/armor on the ex version of qcf+P? Or the reversal possibilities gained via ex command grab?
Yes, those are more like it. However, none of those control space to the extent that mai neomax does, which changes everything, and reversals get safejumped and shit.
Is shen woo EX super punch really 2 frames? I tried punishing things like kyo rekka with it, no luck. I guess traveling that sort of distance takes longer than startup, haha.
also it seems to me that counterhit status is quite rare in this game except for when jcds are involved, as much as i like punch super into punch super
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:54:11 AM by mightfo »
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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2012, 02:17:01 PM »
I use Mai in third place if I see my rival is a good one (if not I use Mai as first or second, because if not I can't use her xDD). Why? Well, just because Mai is my main character, what means is the character I use better. My team is Mai, King and Mature. I use King as battery character in first place and because is the one I know less, Mature as a speedy solid character as second and her combos Death Downer > SC > Heaven's Gates is really useful and Mai as my ultimate weapon.

I think Mai has great combos with meter. Some can not belive me, becuase if you search Mai on youtube you only see people using her as battery char in first place and it looks like they don't want to use meter with her, and Mai without meter for me is useless. Ok, is not really useless, she can zoning decently, her weak ryunebu is good and has great normals and CD, but i don't want play with her in that way. I want enjoy her, and to do it you need meters. Her HD combos are pretty easy, not so long and her NeoMAX is one of the most effective in the game. Her EX ryuenbu opens a new world of combos for Mai, in corner with some meter and some cancels you can be deadly with her and her EX DM is really useful too because it has good invencibility to evade fireballs or corner pressures.

What are Mai's best/most practical midscreen and corner HD combos?

Mid Screen:

1 cancel / at least 1 meter
-crBx2
-sA
-hcf+B
-Drive Cancel
-qcf+AC (in air)
and finish it with:
-sC
-ryuenbu A (qcb+A)
-DM or EX DM
-air grab (best option because of no use of meter and good damage)
-NeoMAX if you are in HD mode

-crBx2
-sA
-qcb+AC
-hcf+D
if after hcf+D you get the corner and you has one more cancel you can cancel it into a ryenbu C (qcb+C), another one, and then air grab or EX DM, or just one ryuenbu and normal DM.

-Kachosen A and hcf+B or D can be combo if kachosen hits and you are spaced correctly

-crB x2
-B>D

-crC
-ryeunbu C (qcf+C)
-Super Cancel
-DM or EX DM

-Musasabi Mai
-Drive Cancel
-EX Musasabi Mai
-Super Cancel
-DM or EX DM
(this one is better than just Musasabi > SC > DM, because you never know if Musasabi will impact. But Drive Cancel doesn't go out if rival covers, so better do Musasabi and then cancel it into EX musasabi, if Ex musasabi goes out is the right time to supe cancel it into DM or EX DM)

you even can do the same with first Musasabi going into HD. If you perform qcf+BC in air you will do a Musasabi wich starts HD mode at the same time, if the musasabi hits can be followed by a super cancel and DM or drive cancel > Ex musasabi > super cancel > DM/EX DM, and then NeoMAX. Is a bit risky, and not really damaging, but spectacular xD

Mid Screen HD combos:
the most practical when you are not sure if you will get the corner for me are:

-sC, HD, sD, ryeunbu > HDC > DM/EXDM > MaxCancel > NeoMAX (great damage)
-sC, HD, sC, EX ryuenbu, EX kachosen, NeoMAX (not super damaging for 4 meter HD combo, but useful)
-sC, HD, sC, hisatsu (hcf+D) > HDC > DM/EX DM > MaxCancel > NeoMAX


Corner combos is a big world for Mai:

the most useful for me are:

-crB x2
-sA
-hcf+B > DC > qcb+C (in air)
-ryuenbu
-air grab

-crB x2
-sA
-hcf+B > DC > qcb+C (in air)
-hcf+D > DC > qcb+C (ryuenbu)
-ryuenbu
-air grab / EX DM

-crB x2
-sA
-EX ryuenbu
-ryuenbu
-ryuenbu > DC > Ex ryuenbu
-ryuenbu A
-ryuenbu > DC > Ex ryuenbu
-ryuenbu A
-ryuenbu
-air grab / EX DM

-crB x2
-sA
-EX Ryuenbu
-ryeunbu
-hcf+D > ryeunbu
-ryuenbu
-air grab / EX DM

-crB x2
-sA
-EX Ryuenbu
-ryeunbu
-hcf+D > ryeunbu
-hcf+D > ryeunbu
-ryuenbu
-air grab / EX DM



HD corner combos:


(0 meter or 2 meter, 650 - 700 damage)
-sC, HD, sC, hcf+D > HDC > qcb+C (in air), hcf+D > HDC > ryeunbu C, ryuenbu C, ryuenbu C > HDC > kachosen A, ryuenbu C, ryuenbu C > HDC > kachosen A (here HD mode finishes), ryuenbu C, ryuenbu C, air grab/EX DM.

(4 meter - 750 - 850 damage) (i don't remember exactly the damge for this one)
-sC, HD, sC, hcf+D > HDC > qcb+C (in air), hcf+D > HDC > ryeunbu C, ryuenbu C, ryuenbu C > HDC > kachosen A, ryuenbu C, EX DM > MaxCancel > NeoMAX.

(4 meter - 850 damage) (i don't remember exactly the damge for this one)
-sC, HD, sC, hcf+D > HDC > qcb+C (in air), hcf+D > HDC > ryeunbu C, hcf+D > HDC > ryeunbu C, ryuenbu C, EX DM > MaxCancel > NeoMAX. (third hcf+D could be failed easily if you don't do it just in time)


My most powerful HD combo corner I found with Mai:

(5 meter, 904 damage)
-sC, HD, sC, hcf+D > HDC > qcb+C (in air), hcf+D > HDC > ryeunbu C, ryeunbu C, ryuenbu C > HDC > EX ryuenbu, ryuenbu C, EX DM > MaxCancel > NeoMAX.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:21:08 PM by Shiranui_ninja »
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Diavle

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Re: Mai Shiranui (Console)
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 03:49:36 PM »
You mean like the options Shen gets with his punch super? Or the 2 frame ex version? How you can use 2 or three  of them (3 normal or 1 normal and 1 ex) for less than the price of a neomax? Or how they counter wire on counter? Or how about the invincibility/armor on the ex version of qcf+P? Or the reversal possibilities gained via ex command grab?
Yes, those are more like it. However, none of those control space to the extent that mai neomax does, which changes everything, and reversals get safejumped and shit.
Is shen woo EX super punch really 2 frames? I tried punishing things like kyo rekka with it, no luck. I guess traveling that sort of distance takes longer than startup, haha.
also it seems to me that counterhit status is quite rare in this game except for when jcds are involved, as much as i like punch super into punch super


Sounds like you haven't played Shen much, or against a good one, going by how little you appreciate the punch super. And neither of the options listed blow 3 meters and full HD in one go.

Regardless, this isn't about Shen, he was just an example.

Guess for you guys its about stock piling and neomax or HD (the phsycological advantage), for me its about no meter and whatever meter I have (use ex fan, ex qcb+P, ex dive a plenty). Different strokes for different folks.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 03:53:15 PM by Diavle »