Author Topic: EX Iori (Flames)  (Read 65258 times)

Chrome Homura

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2013, 10:40:03 PM »
Is there a formula to determine a combo's damage for when one cannot execute it within the game? I've speculated for a long time that it's possible to do command grab xx cl.c xx DP xx command grab more than once, I.E as many times as HD mode allows for. Just today I managed to actually repeat it once, although I soon realized I'd earned a sore palm for my efforts (I tense my thumb super hard in order to get through certain high-level timing input requirements, doing stuff like Mature and Kyo's loops is possible but starts to hurt my hand if I spend too long practicing them) so I don't think I'm gonna be grinding this in the lab too often. Still, the fact that I managed to confirm it could be done is quite satisfying, to say the least.

Would I be correct in assuming this is the most damaging meterless HD loop Classic Iori can do aside from an absurd number of empty cancel rekkas? I would have to guess that cutting the rekka from the standard DP xx command grab loop not only opens up more cancels (more reps) but higher damage output from the moves used as a result. Granted the execution is probably ridiculous enough that I'd be better off forgetting it in favor of more reasonable confirms, but the data junkie in me really wants to know how much damage a player capable of executing this loop could get with 2 bars... has anyone seen this done, or was I really the only one to consider this combo?
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Unwieldly

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #136 on: December 03, 2013, 05:34:04 AM »
I did cl.c, f+a, HD, (cl.c, dp+c (2) DC hcb,f+p)x4, far d, qcfhcb+p, qcfx4ac and got 730. I dunno how much more that is over the normal 2 bar off of cl.c since I don't play this guy much, but there you go.

EDIT: I got 740 replacing the super and extension with neomax at the end.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 05:42:21 AM by Unwieldly »

Sharnt

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2013, 01:47:24 PM »
Is there a formula to determine a combo's damage for when one cannot execute it within the game?

Each hits reduce damage by 5% (ie first hit does 100%, second 95, third 90% etc). Up to a 80% reduction for every normal/specials, up to 60% for SDM, and 50% for NM. Some moves reduce damages even further (Ash sans culottes).
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Chrome Homura

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2013, 10:44:11 PM »
I did cl.c, f+a, HD, (cl.c, dp+c (2) DC hcb,f+p)x4, far d, qcfhcb+p, qcfx4ac and got 730. I dunno how much more that is over the normal 2 bar off of cl.c since I don't play this guy much, but there you go.

EDIT: I got 740 replacing the super and extension with neomax at the end.

Are you for real!? First off, thank you so much for taking the time to do this! Second, pardon me for being a tiny bit skeptical (what with you only having 1 post >_>) but I'm leaning towards accepting it. Third, major props to you for actually pulling that off!

That said, are you sure that's the maximum damage? If you still have enough HD meter after the "last" throw to cancel far  ;d into whatever, isn't there time to get another rep instead, or at least add a projectile? (off the st.D or another cl. ;c ,  ;fd ;a , for example?)

I suppose for some folks this might be a combo that can actually be done by good players, but I'm correct in assuming at the very least that this isn't easy, right? Normally since the followup to command throw xx cl. ;c is  ;fd ;a you only need to reach maximum cl. ;c range in time, but when you need that extra couple frames to get close enough to connect DP, the timing for the run input after the throw needs to be even tighter, so believe me when I tell you it looks pretty amazing and needs to be in a combo vid like ahnold needs you to successfully close the distance between you and the nearest rotor-based flying machine...


edit:
Is there a formula to determine a combo's damage for when one cannot execute it within the game?

Each hits reduce damage by 5% (ie first hit does 100%, second 95, third 90% etc). Up to a 80% reduction for every normal/specials, up to 60% for SDM, and 50% for NM. Some moves reduce damages even further (Ash sans culottes).

Am I reading this right? This mean any given hit for normals/specials stop scaling at 20% minimum, 40% for SDM, 50% for NM? I take it additional scaling effects (such as from sans culottes, as well as unscaled hits of SDMs) are mentioned in the character's frame data for known instances?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:07:01 PM by Chrome Homura »
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Unwieldly

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2013, 05:36:04 AM »
I understand you being skeptical since this was my first post out of the blue. I've been registered and have been lurking since late March, I just don't post. This just was just an interesting thing I wanted to try since you gave me the idea and figured I may as well post.

Yeah, it was annoying to do. I only got it 3 times in like, an hour of attempts. It seems doable since I see a lot of players in vids do the cl.c f+a after command grabbing someone. But, doing it 4 times with stricter timing seems rough. I probably wouldn't do it in real games just for an extra 20 or so damage over the far d, rekka, dp, grab loops.

With it being optimal or not, I think it's close if not already good. I don't think there's enough time to get another rep. At most, you'd get an extra rekka before the neomax/super.

EDIT: Yep, you can get a fireball. cl.c, f+a, HD, (cl.c, dp+c (2) DC hcb,f+p)x4, far d, qcf+c MC neomax is 754. And nope, no 5th rep.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 06:00:44 AM by Unwieldly »

Chrome Homura

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2013, 06:22:48 AM »
Well your reply has since quashed any doubts completely, so all is well.

Have you tried it without the  ;fd ;a? I can't figure out how to calculate the math right now, but my intuition suspects there's a chance that hit might actually be making the total damage lower, but it's just speculation. Again, thanks a lot for your help!
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Unwieldly

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2013, 06:33:02 AM »
747 without f+a. So 7 damage less than with it. I appreciate the thanks.

marchefelix

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #142 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:32 AM »
Really? Crouching B after first hit of rekka? That's crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY71Gi1EwFU#t=17
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 06:51:57 AM by marchefelix »

Kane317

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2014, 11:14:38 PM »
Really? Crouching B after first hit of rekka? That's crazy.

I'm assuming you have to do the empty cancels.

marchefelix

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #144 on: March 17, 2014, 05:14:09 AM »
Really? Crouching B after first hit of rekka? That's crazy.

I'm assuming you have to do the empty cancels.

Is it even possible to use empty cancels like that?

But most importantly, what happened to you? You were absent for quite a while!

Kane317

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #145 on: March 17, 2014, 05:30:24 AM »
Really? Crouching B after first hit of rekka? That's crazy.

I'm assuming you have to do the empty cancels.

Is it even possible to use empty cancels like that?

But most importantly, what happened to you? You were absent for quite a while!

I'll need to test it but it should work.   I remember seeing and old video of Flame doing 1 Rekka into d.C.

I've been lurking, just busy IRL but never stopped playing. :)

Dark Chaotix

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #146 on: March 18, 2014, 02:30:13 PM »
Really? Crouching B after first hit of rekka? That's crazy.

I'm assuming you have to do the empty cancels.

Is it even possible to use empty cancels like that?

But most importantly, what happened to you? You were absent for quite a while!

I'll need to test it but it should work.   I remember seeing and old video of Flame doing 1 Rekka into d.C.

I've been lurking, just busy IRL but never stopped playing. :)

It has been around since the game came out really. SNKP Iori combo at 5:19 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r03eAYlxgUA ) shows him doing cC after 1 rekka a few times. They deplete the HD bar so they aren't doing the rekka cancel late. So what Leeanvan did with cB isn't really new, just different but still difficult.

Persona

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #147 on: May 10, 2015, 06:05:35 PM »
Some random tidbits about EX Iori:

- you can actually combo hcb BD after his C version rekkas. The rekkas need to hit from the air and when performed correctly, the third hit will hit late allowing time to combo. One of his trials actually has this.
- his Neo Max can OTG after a max cancel.
- the last hit of his Maiden Masher on counter hit has wallbounce properties but to only get that part to connect would need a special setup so it's pretty much impossible in a match.
- you can combo his command grab from forward A when performed late.
- you can cancel a super from his far A and far B (normally not special cancelable).
- whiffing a normal into his forward B can turn the attack into a cancelable normal. A simple example is getting the opponent stuck with his qcf AC and then far C (whiff) xx f B xx rekkas. I assume this might open up more combo options from his qcfx2 P juggles outside HD mode.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 06:12:09 PM by Persona »

AirLancer

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #148 on: May 10, 2015, 11:59:59 PM »
Would the f+B still retain it's juggle properties even when canceled into though? If not it'd just air reset wouldn't it?

Persona

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Re: EX Iori (Flames)
« Reply #149 on: May 11, 2015, 06:32:05 AM »
Ah I tried it earlier and yeah it loses it. I have no idea why it loses it though since I don't recall ever having a similar situation like it before. So I guess it's useful only on the ground but not sure why someone would want to do it when they can just do a hard normal into a combo since the hard normal does the same damage as the forward B.

I guess it loses it because the juggle property is connected with the overhead property? Since canceling loses(?) the overhead effect.

If it did work, a combo that could have existed would be C xx dp A xx qcfx2 P (second hit connects), normal (whiff) xx f B xx qcb A xx qcb A xx empty cancel, f B, dp C.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 06:35:14 AM by Persona »