Author Topic: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread  (Read 9180 times)

desmond_kof

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The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« on: December 11, 2011, 08:12:17 AM »
Share strats against other characters and your own opinions Kim's overall gameplay pros and cons...his advantages vs his disadvantages. If you would like to contribute your thoughts to his wiki, go to his wiki thread here: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1688.0

thanks!
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LouisCipher

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 01:27:17 AM »
I think he has a tough time against zoners, which make up roughly a quarter of the cast. That, and he absolutely needs to run 2nd or 3rd because he needs meter to do damage.

Sad to say that I jumped ship from using Kim. I think he would be better if his EX Hangetsuzan went through projectiles and he had an easier time linking into B Hangetsuzan
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Sharnt

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 02:48:03 PM »
Pro :
- Deals more than the average (More than Kyo, less than Iori/Hwa Jai)
- Safe jumps everywhere
- Good frame traps
- Good air control
- Good zoning tools (far.C, far.D especially)


Cons :
- Poor mixups (Except the High/Low after a knockdown)
- Can't deal that much without meter and have a hard time to build any, because he is laking of a practicable safe spacial move
- Higher requirement in terms of execution to do the optimized combo than the majority of the cast (A step aside Ash though)
- Kyo/Hwa Jai are better than him in roughly every situation

That's how i see him for now.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 06:26:12 PM by Sharnt »
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SwitchPlaya

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 07:54:28 PM »
We need more threads like this with every character anyway i am having trouble with the Kim and King match up it seems that King has a better time controlling the screen ant it seems that she can easily anti air him with her Trap shot i think its called

desmond_kof

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 09:19:49 AM »
After playing with Kim for a little bit, I've sort of noticed that he doesn't really have a good standing fast, long poke, similar to his 98/02 versions. My favorite standing poke was mainly his s.A in those games. It had a decent speed, range, and it was pointed directly at the opponent's mid-section while his jab in this game doesn't have that same angle and it isn't as long. His s.B is okay for stopping hops, and his s.C I haven't really build much trust using it.
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Sharnt

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 08:37:49 PM »
Abuse of far D if your opponent hop it do close D which starts very fast and is a kind of wall against hops.
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desmond_kof

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 09:05:05 PM »
Abuse of far D if your opponent hop it do close D which starts very fast and is a kind of wall against hops.

Far D is really slow, both start up and recovery wise so, I'd rather use s.B for that.
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Diavle

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 09:08:03 PM »
s.B is fantastic, and its cancellable, unlike his far sA of old. Can't see how you can be happy with one but not the other. sB into ff+A into win.

I use all of his pokes, don't find any of them useless. His poking game is actually a big part of my gameplan with him.

And far D is really good, can go over lows as well (I went over Kyo's fireball once lol). Like Sharnt said, it creates a wall of sorts that can hit upward and forwards and can be linked after for combos. If they get too close then they get hit with the fast and upwards angled close D.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:14:32 PM by Diavle »

Buriki One

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 03:33:41 AM »

Is ff+A on block punishable? Also, after ff+A on block what is his safest option?

Diavle

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 03:43:48 AM »
On block  Kim rebounds off of the opponent, you can enter an attack at any time all the way till he lands (so you can delay inputting an attack). During the rebound Kim has a few options:

- qcb+D for an overhead (B version is less safe and isn't an overhead)
- qcf+D, D (The move will be blocked but Kim will Kick off of them and do a J.D as he's jumping back)
- qcf+B, Kim will do the dive kick straight down and land quickly, not hitting the opponent
- Do nothing

You can also super but that's unsafe, EX versions of above moves make things safer in the situations.

Variation in attacks and times of entering said attacks should help keep you safe.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 03:47:32 AM by Diavle »

Sharnt

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 12:35:02 PM »
qcb.D is 0 or +1 if done at the lowest.
qcb.BD is invincible (and it seems there are a lot of invincible frames, i succeed at beating Ex dp with it) and quite safe at the lowest (you can't be punish easily by normals).
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Sharnt

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 01:08:33 PM »
Pro :
- Deals more than the average (More than Kyo, less than Iori/Hwa Jai)




That's how i see him for now.

After more plays :
- Might be able to deals more than the average if only nearly 99% of the opening weren't from d.B (or if I didn't use a d.B after a jumping attack  :>) So Kim's output damage is in the average.
- Safe jumps everywhere
- Good frame traps
- Good air control
- Good zoning tools (far.C, far.D especially)
- Crazy pressure game, once you get on your opponent you can stick him until his death

Cons :
- Poor mixups (Except the High/Low after a knockdown)
=> 50/50 mixups crossup after some combos midscreen, in corner it's a traditionnal throw/ frame trap mixup but you are greatly advantaged.
- Can't deal that much without meter and have a hard time to build any, because he is laking of a practicable safe spacial move
=> Irrelevant since after landing one combo you start your pressure game which will open on more combos. At least one Ex bar is great.
- Higher requirement in terms of execution to do the optimized combo than the majority of the cast (A step aside Ash though)
=> Most of whose combos are useless except [far.D,d.B,s.B, ... ] which is difficult to confirm and to do but very powerful. In a corner opening d.B,d.B,s.B/s.C,ff.A,qcf.BD,s.D,qcb.B,d~u.D~d.D is worthing it too.
But you don't need to learn whose it's just a (great) plus.
- Kyo/Hwa Jai are better than him in roughly every situation
=> I think it's still true. But Kim's pressure is better than their.
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desmond_kof

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 08:54:05 PM »
After playing with him a lot myself, I still feel he has trouble against zoners and must use meter to evade their fireballs with his air EX qcb K. Because of that, I usually place Kim in the middle of my team or as an anchor.

I do think another weakness he has is most of his special moves (without meter) are unsafe and have bad recovery. A TKed qcb+D and a far placed qcb+B can be pretty safe which can give him some good frame traps, but I feel like some of his normals can be used to make opponents press buttons on block like his st. C, and his far and standing D.
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Diavle

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 01:59:24 PM »
He has been one of my mains since day one and I am fairly certain that Kim will end up being considered A tier or above.

Between playing online and watching tournaments there is still a lot of stuff I see ppl not use properly, to full effect or at all.

Sharnt

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Re: The Pros and Cons of Kim: Strategy & Matchup Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 06:26:10 PM »
He has been one of my mains since day one and I am fairly certain that Kim will end up being considered A tier or above.

Between playing online and watching tournaments there is still a lot of stuff I see ppl not use properly, to full effect or at all.
Sure. But the character is quite deep, so only ppl who will stay on him a long time will make use of those tools.

After playing with him a lot myself, I still feel he has trouble against zoners and must use meter to evade their fireballs with his air EX qcb K. Because of that, I usually place Kim in the middle of my team or as an anchor.
That's why I have been training a Kula for some days. To put her against hadotrap characters.
Nevertheless if you are patient enough your opponent ends in the corner without any safe option to pass through you. You might lose 200-300 hp thought but you have an option to win those matchs.
And i'm using air qcb.BD to bait dp moves. For me this move is horrible for passing trough fireballs.

I do think another weakness he has is most of his special moves (without meter) are unsafe and have bad recovery. A TKed qcb+D and a far placed qcb+B can be pretty safe which can give him some good frame traps, but I feel like some of his normals can be used to make opponents press buttons on block like his st. C, and his far and standing D.

You don't really need safe specials since Kim's normals are really, really great
Just avoid to end it with s.B which puts you quite far (or do it only if you want to do a ff.A follow up to try to screw your opponent) and let you at -1 at best (?) (Edit : -6 according to frame data)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 04:03:44 PM by Sharnt »
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