Author Topic: Clark wiki building thread  (Read 9709 times)

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2012, 04:40:23 PM »
The problem I have with Kyo/Iori/Beni is not stopping crossups, it's trying to get in. To me, Clark's hop B is a good counter to their amazing air control with their jumping B or D or Kyo's jumping Down D. Etc. Otherwise you have to play footsies on the ground and try to use s.A to AA them and get them as Clark.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2012, 10:38:42 PM »
The problem I have with Kyo/Iori/Beni is not stopping crossups, it's trying to get in. To me, Clark's hop B is a good counter to their amazing air control with their jumping B or D or Kyo's jumping Down D. Etc. Otherwise you have to play footsies on the ground and try to use s.A to AA them and get them as Clark.

Essentially every air normal has it's time and place for use but Clark's hop B is used when they're a little further away than a hopping distance usually, most of the times I would use j.CD instead for the knockdown but it's of course all situational.

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2012, 11:38:36 PM »
As an air-to-air his j.CD is too slow though.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2012, 12:28:24 PM »
As an air-to-air his j.CD is too slow though.

I guess everything all just depends on distance so it's kinda just pointless.  Where you would use j.B it would be too close for me, where I would use j.CD, it would be too close for you etc lol.  I think we all know what to use based on seeing the situation.

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Essentially every air normal has it's time and place for use

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2012, 09:16:58 PM »
Very true. But did I explain his tick throws enough? I'd like to add that back in there.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2012, 10:13:03 PM »
Very true. But did I explain his tick throws enough? I'd like to add that back in there.

You should just put it in the strategy section because as it is right now, it's a pretty loose-ended strategy.  The same could be done with hcf D but the timing is just different, if anything it's harder to avoid because it's 1f.  The s.CD (block), step, hcf B is pretty good as I use it all the time but it's kinda just an overall grappler strategy.

That's the problem I have, is that it's not so much a tick throw strategy, as it is a general grappler strategy and it's not exclusive to Clark per se.  The point of the hcf B is the guardpoint (autoguard), pretty much anytime you're delaying after a blockstun, you can hcf D them afterwards even if they poke with a normal.  In fact I'll go as far as saying the hcf D is a better bet because it'll guarantee grabbing them.  The hcf B, depending on how late or early you do it, can be jumped on reaction after GuardPointing...

You should just write about it in an overall mind game strategy section.

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2012, 05:09:36 PM »
Apologies for a delayed response.

So Kane, what would you consider to be Calrk's tick throws with D SAB? Because I'm going to assume you mean the really basic stuff like empty jump/hop into it, or jump in whatever then dash in D SAB. That's as much as he can do as for as ticks. I would argue that they are just as Risky as those B SAB tick throw setups I've shown.

Because the point I was trying to make with these Tick Throws is that these are his options and you should'nt use them all the time, but if you're good at using them you can totally mind fuck the other guy and bully him in a way that the other grapplers can't.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2012, 08:52:54 AM »
Apologies for a delayed response.

So Kane, what would you consider to be Calrk's tick throws with D SAB? Because I'm going to assume you mean the really basic stuff like empty jump/hop into it, or jump in whatever then dash in D SAB. That's as much as he can do as for as ticks. I would argue that they are just as Risky as those B SAB tick throw setups I've shown.

Because the point I was trying to make with these Tick Throws is that these are his options and you should'nt use them all the time, but if you're good at using them you can totally mind fuck the other guy and bully him in a way that the other grapplers can't.

Yeah I think we agree that in the end of the day it's just a strategy that can be useful if the opponent doesn't catch on to quickly; essentially his hcf B is his old Frankenstiener in terms of usage.  I'll go over your section and kinda refine it a bit and post it back here and see if we can come to an agreement.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 09:04:58 AM by Kane317 »

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2012, 09:27:39 AM »
No problem.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 03:43:57 AM »
Okay, added some substantial material. Hopefully everyone's cool with it:

Clarified the range of EX SAB and basically warned off using Vulcan.

Tick Throws

Clark has perhaps the greatest variety of throw setups available to him aside from maybe Vice. He has three different kinds of grabs (not counting grab supers or Neomax): B SAB is slow but has autoguard, think of it kinda' like a parry. However certain moves, ex moves, and footsies will beat it. D SAB is your standard grab. And lastly you have his air grab (jump C). You're free to mix it up with these tools but here are some ways to land these grabs:
Jump in any attack (including CD), hold forward and quickly do standing A or B followed by B SAB.
A Gatling on block, then B SAB, works best on characters that lack an instant command grab. Very gimmicky but worth experimenting with.
Combo into A Gatling, followup A Gatling, jump toward D, as they land B SAB.
Empty hop B SAB (invulnerable to low attacks)
With D SAB jump in any attack, standing A or B, then you have to run and do D SAB.
And of course empty jump D SAB. Can mix this up with hop A, then empty hop into D SAB.
For his jumping grab the ticks I listed above will work, just and grab them.
The trick is to force the opponent to guess which way to block and if they should counter or not.
It is up to you how to use Clark and his command grabs.

Close Range
General pressure
Hop A, crouching B then combo into D SAB or go from crouching B into crouching A and combo into A Gatling.
Hop A, crouching B, standing B. If standing B hits you can go into Hyperdrive mode or just do EX SAB and the followup drive cancel into Grab Super. If they block standing B you can do a crouching D or hop A or hop CD or just try to bait them.
Generally Clark's hop A is his best overall jump in. It will beat a lot of pokes to keep him out, it's fast, and it provides a lot of hitstun to combo into anything.

Best Jumping attacks
Clark's CD is really good but the problem is it's slow and will get beaten out, especially if you're predictable. His best overall jump ins are short hop A which is fast, will beat and/or trade with a lot of pokes meant to keep Clark out, and gives you a lot of hitstun to combo into anything.

Playing Defense
You know what they say about a good defense right? Clark has the tools to keep his opponents off of him and can play a mean footsie game if he has to.
Neutral hop D will AA any jump in if you have the reaction time and it's very fast. I would not advise on jumping in with either B or D because they will not hit low and the risk is often greater than the reward.
Crouching C will AA nuisance jump ins like Billy's jumping C and Iori's jumping D. It will not beat Kyo's jumping down C though.
Standing A will counter virtually every hop coming at you if you're within close range.
And as mentioned Clark's standing D and C and sweep (crouching D) are amazingly good pokes, and both have slight AA capabilities. Standing C seems to AA slightly better but it's slow recovery can put you at risk if you get reckless with it.
Might want to experiment with Vulcan at about mid-range if you think they want to jump in, and will potentially scare them from trying to do so.

Oki

Clark's command grabs result in a hard knock down which gives you the opportunity of messing with your opponent in a big way.
After you land a command grab you can try the following:
Dash in, AB roll (can be delayed to make it seem like you AB Roll'd behind the opponent) and either: B SAB, wait and D SAB, crouching B into crouching A into whatever, or jumping grab, or just wait.
An example of what I'm talking about: (4 minutes in) http://youtu.be/1tLdLCWQpoU

I'm going to add matchups soon. There's not much to add in regards to setting up airgrabs, basically you want to scare them into jumping and grab them.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Mazinkaiser

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2012, 04:56:35 PM »
If i'm not mistake and is already pointed somewhere, here missing a precious info, B SAB have no grabbable hurtbox. Notice when aganist the poor character without a great punisher after a block A gatling, try to approach and do the throw, if you do B SAB always the opponent get the normal strong C/D animation, no matter what. That is really usefull aganist Takuma/Vice too because his command throw combo starter miss on B SAB.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2012, 08:56:17 PM »
If i'm not mistake and is already pointed somewhere, here missing a precious info, B SAB have no grabbable hurtbox. Notice when aganist the poor character without a great punisher after a block A gatling, try to approach and do the throw, if you do B SAB always the opponent get the normal strong C/D animation, no matter what. That is really usefull aganist Takuma/Vice too because his command throw combo starter miss on B SAB.

There technically is a throwable hurtbox, but it's pretty late after his hands comes down, basically he can only be thrown with people jumping in, but I get your point.

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2012, 12:26:55 AM »
Kane, what do you think about playing defensively with Clark? I'm curious what you think.
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.

Kane317

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2012, 12:37:06 AM »
Kane, what do you think about playing defensively with Clark? I'm curious what you think.

Personally I've never played him defensively but I suppose it'll work.  Without be on the offense and landing that hardknock down, you're basically neglecting his strongest attribute: His mixup game.

However, if you're are in the lead in life and you want to kinda play defensive it is hard to get in on Clark as long as he's patient and seeing that his 1F grab punishes like 95% of all moves, then I guess it could be an interesting strategy.

LouisCipher

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Re: Clark wiki building thread
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2012, 01:38:01 AM »
In my experience though, a lot of top characters want to keep Clark out and try to zone him. My feeling is that you can counter this by being defensive. I'm not suggesting Clark should run away, but hold his ground.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 02:01:06 AM by LouisCipher »
Team: Billy, Clark, Hwa.