Author Topic: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!  (Read 49706 times)

bopper

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2012, 03:16:26 PM »
If you cancel into HD from a normal early, you get the auto dash. If you cancel into HD from a normal late you get a cl.C. So just try to do it faster and you should be fine :).

The absolute easiest HD combo would be something like (karate): cl.C, f.B HD, cl.C, f.B, super-> cancel to neomax.

droX

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #121 on: August 14, 2012, 03:07:58 PM »
If you cancel into HD from a normal early, you get the auto dash. If you cancel into HD from a normal late you get a cl.C. So just try to do it faster and you should be fine :).

The absolute easiest HD combo would be something like (karate): cl.C, f.B HD, cl.C, f.B, super-> cancel to neomax.

Thanks for your answer buddy, for the HD cancel i ll try this on training...
For the HD combo I was hoping a totally unskilled flashy loop, if someone got that pliz share !!!!

One more noob question with mr karate : French mr karate players most use Forward B , unstead of asiatic players like Yang "Whaaat!!!" Yao Ren or japanese players which most use forward A. I suspect forward A to be more complicated to use for blockstrings or combos because it push away more the oponent , but if there is different cases i need explanations..

bopper

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2012, 04:37:48 PM »
Well karates HD is pretty simple, i just figured you wanted some super easy stuff :).

C, f.B HD C, [qcf.A DC dp.C~AB, qcf.A] repeat until meter runs out, super.

Midscreen you do dp.C~AB, hcf~uf.B, qcf.A DC dp.C~AB etc. (also works in the corner, same damage).

f.A is better to end your hitconfirm with if you start with a cr.B, since you get this combo:

cr.B, st.B, f.A, dp.C~AB, hcf~uf.B, dp.A or super.

if you start with cl.C the pushback is too much for the hcf~uf.B to hit, so you might as well do f.B for more damage.

EDIT: Found a vid of the midscreen one ( The King Of Fighters 13 Mr Karate (Takuma) EXPERT HD Combo (900 dmg 61 Hits) by xMasterLeex ). In the corner just substitute the hcf~uf.B for a qcf.C to make it easier. You can just end it with qcf.C instead of the f,b,f.P if you want to connect a regular super at the end instead IIRC.

As for Ash, i dont know much about him except that his combos are pretty tough. Probably one of the worst chars in the game regarding execution.

Benimarus HD combos are actually pretty lackluster so you probably wont lose much damage from doing something super basic like cl.D HD, cl.D, qcf.D, d,u.D DC qcb.C, super ->neomax hehe. Here is a good 4bar HD with him that you can practice once you are a little more comfortable: Benimaru 4 bar HD
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 04:58:44 PM by bopper »

Sharnt

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #123 on: August 15, 2012, 08:11:05 PM »
One more noob question with mr karate : French mr karate players most use Forward B , unstead of asiatic players like Yang "Whaaat!!!" Yao Ren or japanese players which most use forward A. I suspect forward A to be more complicated to use for blockstrings or combos because it push away more the oponent , but if there is different cases i need explanations..
It's because most French players don't punish f.B use, by example in corner, if you backdash while karate does s.C,f.B, the s.C will hit, the f.B whiff giving you a free punish, same thing goes for s.C,f.B,qcf.P in some case you can punish the qcf.P by break rolling on the f.B, it's far more difficult on the f.A (you must break roll on the first hit of the f.A to punish, quite hard).

In fact f.A keeps your opponent closer, reducing the chances of the dp.C~AB to whiff if you cancel it on the first hit. If people do f.B it's mainly because it does more damages and let's you confirm a bit more easily on non hd combo (In case of a punish combo, f.B is always better since the damages are higher). There is also possibility they don't know it's punishable ...

If something is still unclear ask for it :D

A perfect example on this stream, skip to 10min http://fr.twitch.tv/frionel26/b/329120448

I thought f.A was safe but thanks to this stream I see I was wrong, you can also break roll punish with a full combo.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 01:28:25 PM by Sharnt »
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Sharnt

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2012, 01:40:45 PM »
Today I learned a third way, s.C,hcf uf.B to hit confirm, since karate can super jump cancel his moves only on hit he does only s.C and is safe in guard (Plus the combo out of it does more damages).

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droX

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #125 on: August 19, 2012, 06:58:08 PM »
Today I learned a third way, s.C,hcf uf.B to hit confirm, since karate can super jump cancel his moves only on hit he does only s.C and is safe in guard (Plus the combo out of it does more damages).



merci pour ta réponse Sharnt, les stream à Frio c'est vraiment que du bonheur et plein de matos..
traduction "many technologies in Frionel streams!!"
mais je peux pas vérifier là mais je crois bien que fA fait plus de dégats que fB, ds les petits combos et la mm choses ds les plus longs.. Le souci avec fA c'est que il whiff régulièrement ds mes combos qui commences par JHK et qui sont pas très prés du perso..

excuse my french

Mr.Minionman

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #126 on: August 31, 2012, 06:47:43 PM »
Hey, you answered a question a few months ago, and would just like to say I appreciated the response I got (albiet really late reply). I did get discouraged for awhile, but the game is really starting to feel better for me, and I'm starting to do solid block strings and combos, especially with King. I play (and lose) to my bro alot, and I can feel myself building a mechanical edge on him (he plays shotos and zoners because they just require the basic knowledge, but doesn't practice anything).

But I do have a few new questions. My bro plays a rather solid Andy. Regardless of my choice of characters, I'll burn through his other characters, then come to Andy and he'll just destroy. He plays rather systematically, however I'm having difficulty punishing what he is doing. I can figure out most of it one my own, but specifically two things I'd like advice on: first, when he approaches on the ground, he'll run up and do a few cr.B's, then will pause to try to punish my response with a sweep. I can foresee this is what he's planning, but I've tried jumping, backdashing, sweeping (he always stops when he's pushed me far enough to where he knows the characters I play can't respond with their own sweeps), but they always seem to get hit by the sweep. I feel because of my lack of knowledge, I resort to sitting there blocking, and wait for him to make a move, where he'll either reset to hadoken pressure, or try to elbow/hop which are both partially solid approaches. If I know that this is what he is trying, how would I punish it? The only character I play with a meterless dp is ex iori, so that is not always an option.

Second, also mostly geared towards my experience towards vs Andy (and to a lesser extent, other zoners), How do I go about doing a ground approach? Some of it's just rolling under projectiles, but after I disconnect from my opponents pressure, I'm having a hard time moving in on the ground. mostly with Andy, if i try running towards him, he'll do an EX projectile, or an EX elbow because he knows I can't block it immediately. I initially mostly tried running in and hitting with cr.Bs, but most, if not all of my attempts at this are met with preemptive sweeps or elbows. Other character's he plays have similar goals, with Leona I tend to get caught by her swing... thing, and vs Ash he'll usually set up the fireball. I understand alot of it involves not being predictable in my movements, but oftentimes in a match I'll get frustrated trying to close distance and (I'm aware of this) try to jump over it all, to which he'll always have the dp input with all of his characters on his mind, or seemingly superior air to airs.

note: for a frame of reference, I play King, Kim, Shen mostly, but I've been moving to other characters, because he knows how to punish my mindset with these characters so well... (ex Iori, who has a dp, Raiden, mindgames, used to play Maxima but he seems like a burden against characters with good keepaway, and Terry, who seems to just brute force through the pressure)

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #127 on: September 02, 2012, 12:08:59 AM »
From the way you are describing it, the troubles you are having stem from a lack of footsies. Unfortunately, these issues are not simple problems to fix, because the answer in these scenarios is to develop better understanding of fundamentals.

For example, for the problem of the frame trap sweep with Andy, the most brutal punish for this would be a hop attack that grants you a full combo by counter hitting the sweep. You mentioned that you get hit if you try to jump. This simply means that you are not hopping early enough to truly PREDICT the sweep. In these situations, a difference of a few frames the is the difference between getting hit and landing your punish. The skill to have an instinctual understanding of this kind of timing comes with practice and experience, and in most cases this is what separates great players from average ones.

In regards to closing distance, I would advise you to re-think the context of your goal. It is not always important to close the distance. Remember that patience is a two way road in fighting games. The important thing is to always have more patience than your opponent if he is far away. Simply having patience in this situation will solve the problem of getting in for you. Eventually, your opponent will throw a bad fireball, or give up on zoning and try to attack you. As soon as this happens, the tide has changed directions in your favor. If it's hard to get in, then stay out. Find ways to play your own zoning games in response to those of your opponent. With that said, knowing particular facts about your characters is also useful, so:

With king, ex air fireball is excellent from a distance. The air version has MUCH faster start up than the ground version, so do something like, forward hop, and right before you land, EX fireball. This blows through all non ex fireballs and punishes slow moves. It'll also beat andy's elbow at mid range clean.

With Kim, air EX hangetsuzan is completely invincible from start to finish. If you tiger knee this move, it completely controls about 40% of the screen. It's a great tool in footsie range and is safe on block at max distance. It's so invincible that it will beat all  regular uppercuts if you jump in with it. Also, Kim's stand D is invincible to lows, so if andy is going to sweep, simply st. D and get a full combo.

Shen woo can use his back hand move to negate fireballs. Because of this, Shen Woo builds a lot of meter if your opponent if willing to zone. Use this tool as often as you can, and then you have EX bionic arm super to blast through whatever you want.

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 12:11:29 AM by davidkong07 »
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Mr.Minionman

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #128 on: September 02, 2012, 10:17:23 PM »
In regards to closing distance, I would advise you to re-think the context of your goal. It is not always important to close the distance. Remember that patience is a two way road in fighting games. The important thing is to always have more patience than your opponent if he is far away. Simply having patience in this situation will solve the problem of getting in for you. Eventually, your opponent will throw a bad fireball, or give up on zoning and try to attack you. As soon as this happens, the tide has changed directions in your favor. If it's hard to get in, then stay out. Find ways to play your own zoning games in response to those of your opponent.

Yeah, this part was a big help. Don't have a very good internet connection, so it's kinda hard to get this stuff, cause I kinda have one guy to practice it on besides monthly events, so that's kinda why I keep showing up here. Good at theory crafting, not much experience playing the game. Anyway, I tried being a bit more patient, and sure enough bait and catch ash started jumping in on me, ready to eat a grounded AA. Still sitting in block against most sweeps, but I'll get there. Thanks for the help!

davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #129 on: September 03, 2012, 12:06:57 PM »
I'm glad I could help. I hope you become a total boss at Kof.
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #130 on: October 03, 2012, 01:01:20 AM »
Hey guys,

Just wanted to put it out there once again that I'm still active in this thread and here to help! Please don't hesitate to submit questions at any time!
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Softfloormat

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #131 on: October 19, 2012, 11:05:13 PM »
Hey David,

I really appreciate the time you take to answer all these questions.  With that said, here's one more!

I'm just getting into KOF and the experience has been a combination of a lot of fun, and a lot of frustration.  I've been playing Street Fighter (ST and SF4 mainly) with my buddies since 2006.  I've always loved the slow and methodical pace of SF4 and how turtley of a game it can be.  That really says a lot about my play style as well; I'm very defensive and would rather wait and punish than rush down. 

With all that said I'm having a very hard time dictating the pace of the matches.  I always seem to be playing the opponents game, and I always end up in the corner even when I'm actively trying to stay out of it.  I know KOF is a much more offensive based game, so I've been trying to adapt to that, but I still seem to get pushed around into situations where they are making me guess. 

My question is:

The air to air game:  I almost ALWAYS lose this.  My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo.  I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki.  In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts.  You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit.  I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work.  I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air.  It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, as I have so many more things to work on, but I figured it was a good place to start, as it's one of biggest problems. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded question!

solidshark

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #132 on: October 20, 2012, 06:04:00 AM »
^Hello Softfloormat. Welcome to DreamCancel.

Before David has a shot at your question, I might offer a small tip with Mr. Karate and K' against Iori's j.D. I've used those characters a few times, and ended up outmatching Iori in the air with Mr. Karate's Hienshippukyauk (hcf+K) or K's Minute Spike (qcb+K) both in the air. If I guessed his arc correctly, the j.D came first and I hopped back or empty hopped and countered with those moves. Doesn't always work, but when it does, it can make the Iori player rethink using j.D as much as he wants to. Don't know if David will say otherwise, but this might work for you.
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davidkong07

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #133 on: October 20, 2012, 10:51:31 PM »
My question is:

The air to air game:  I almost ALWAYS lose this.  My friend plays Beni, Iori, Kyo.  I play K', Mr. Karate, and Saiki.  In my attempt to establish and offense I've been really trying to counter act his jumping normals because moves like Iori's J. D are so good that they often beat out my anti air attempts.  You'd think with Mr. Karate's j. CD I'd be doing a little bit of work, but I pretty much always get hit.  I've tried to adjust the timing of the attack (hitting earlier or later in the arc) but nothing seems to work.  I imagine that with time and experience I'll eventually work this out, but I was hoping you might have some general advice for navigating the air.  It feels like footsies are really happening in the air in this game, rather than on the ground.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, as I have so many more things to work on, but I figured it was a good place to start, as it's one of biggest problems. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long winded question!


Great question! Like you said, the air to air game is a very prevalent aspect of this game, and needs to be learned in order to play competitively. The first important thing to remember is that air normals have startup and active frames just like all other moves. In that sense, footsies in the air share some principles with footsies on the ground. It's all about touching your opponent with your active hitbox before he does the same to you.

First off, when jumping, you must mentally be prepared to go for either an attempt at an AIR TO AIR, or an attempt at a JUMP IN. I put these two terms in bold because they are two completely different decisions. The optimal spacing and timing for an air to air is different than the optimal spacing and timing for a jump in for any given air normal.

When attempting an air to air, you must be EXPECTING your opponent to be in the air already when you press your attack. In that sense, this is a READ. That's why at high levels, you see players whiffing hop CD at certain ranges over and over again (Tokido's Karate comes to mind). It's because they are simply controlling that space, which is the hop trajectory of your opponent.

If you are going for a jump in, generally speaking you will be pressing your button much later in your jump than you would for an air to air.

There is some inherent risk to an air to air if you do it at close range. Because you are pressing the button earlier than you would for a jump in, most air to air attempts can be ducked and possibly anti air'ed with a low. If both players go for an air to air at the same time, the player whose attacks comes out FIRST will always win. This is why moves like Karate's jump CD are so good (it has extremely quick startup). If your Karate's jump CD is consistently being beaten by Iori's jump D, that means Iori's attack is active before your attack is active. This will always happen if you are trying to REACT to their air to air attempt with your own air to air.

General rule of thumb: You won't be able to react to an air to air attempt which is spaced and timed well with your own air to air. Instead, you want to REACT with either an anti air low or something invincible. You CAN react to a jump in attempt with an air to air, because they will be pressing their attack much later than if they were to go for an air to air.

Remember that going for air to airs is going to be a matter of reading and prediction. Do your attack before your opponent does his, and your attack will win. I hope this helps!
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Softfloormat

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Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2012, 05:37:34 PM »
Thanks David!  That's a good point about air to airs being a read, rather than an actual reaction.  Yeah, I think I was trying to react to the j. D too much.  Thanks again, sir!