Author Topic: Shen vs. Grapplers  (Read 3261 times)

Matt Alder

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Shen vs. Grapplers
« on: December 12, 2011, 07:36:12 PM »
It seems to me that Shen gets absolutely destroyed by grapplers. Specifically Daimon or Clark. Any time Shen is close enough to start a combo, he gets thrown, and he can't even really use ground pokes against Daimon, or he could eat an invulnerable throw. Shen's EX Grab is not even going to help him against Daimon's invulnerable throw, since basically any situation when Shen could land a grab, Daimon could also land a grab, and if they both come out at the same time, Daimon's will always win.

Are there ANY tools Shen has to deal with this matchup at all? I've been just basically trying to play keepaway with far D, any of Shen's hyperhops can be grabbed out of the air by Daimon, seems like far standing D and crouch D are his only pokes that he can't get thrown out of. Even a far stand C can be grabbed through sometimes.

Ash

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Re: Shen vs. Grapplers
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 06:50:58 AM »
It seems to me that Shen gets absolutely destroyed by grapplers. Specifically Daimon or Clark. Any time Shen is close enough to start a combo, he gets thrown, and he can't even really use ground pokes against Daimon, or he could eat an invulnerable throw. Shen's EX Grab is not even going to help him against Daimon's invulnerable throw, since basically any situation when Shen could land a grab, Daimon could also land a grab, and if they both come out at the same time, Daimon's will always win.

Are there ANY tools Shen has to deal with this matchup at all? I've been just basically trying to play keepaway with far D, any of Shen's hyperhops can be grabbed out of the air by Daimon, seems like far standing D and crouch D are his only pokes that he can't get thrown out of. Even a far stand C can be grabbed through sometimes.

Shen should be even at least or have an advantage against goro. You should be using more hop CD's and hop D's from max range as well as getting used to his autoguard on his s.C. Which those alone you should be able to lock him down. Goro isn't able to use his anti-air grab against those if you are playing at the right distance. I wouldn't try for a combo until you can either hit him out of the air or score a knock down. Also from farther range, use him qcf+C, fake in order to make them think twice about coming in to attack.

You also have to know your opponent when he tries for a command throw. If you do know, it's way more risky for goro to try for it since you can just hop C and punish with a full combo. You can keep him in check for going for the command throw by hopping in with CD then hopping again with CD and test how he reacts.

Matt Alder

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Re: Shen vs. Grapplers
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 07:21:16 PM »
actually at most ranges Shen's j.CD can be grabbed out of the air with Goro's EX anti air. The max range j.D and far standing D and sometimes crouch D seem to be the safest way to keep him out... but even max range j.D can be snuffed by Goro's d/f+C or standing D usually. It just seems like a really rough matchup with Shen to try and beat an opponent who has better normals and an invulnerable anti air or grab... I'm really trying to come up with some good ways to maybe bait a throw without actually exposing myself to get grabbed.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:28:02 PM by Matt Alder »

Ash

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Re: Shen vs. Grapplers
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 08:27:19 PM »
actually at most ranges Shen's j.CD can be grabbed out of the air with Goro's EX anti air. The max range j.D and far standing D and sometimes crouch D seem to be the safest way to keep him out... but even max range j.D can be snuffed by Goro's d/f+C or standing D usually. It just seems like a really rough matchup with Shen to try and beat an opponent who has better normals and an invulnerable anti air or grab... I'm really trying to come up with some good ways to maybe bait a throw without actually exposing myself to get grabbed.

Actually I think it's just the timing of your opponent. I've rarely had a problem with Shen's normals against Goro. If you're getting hit by a lot of anti airs, I would say you are jumping or hopping too often that the opponent is reading it.

Goro's s.D shouldn't beat out Shen's hop CD or D on reaction, they would have to be throwing it out somewhat pre-emptively, probably when you are in the range of hopping in. Same goes for his df.C as well. The only real anti-air he has that's viable is EX qcf+P, but it should be good since it takes meter.

Speaking of which, you should be using your meter as well to punish. If the Goro you're fighting likes to poke a lot, then you should punish any hard attack or jump with Shen's qcfx2 super. Another normal you should use depending on how you use it is s.CD against pokes. Use it right outside their normal's range or pre-emptively if you know they're going to stick out an attack soon. If you get a counter hit, go for a super.

It's difficult to give you the exact answer you're looking for, cause if there was, Shen would beat any Goro player any time. It depends a lot on the type of player using Goro - defensive/poke/offensive/zoner. I can only help you with general advice.


Matt Alder

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Re: Shen vs. Grapplers
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 02:04:54 PM »
I guess my real problem here is that Shen has no reliable way to combo from anything outside of Goro and Clark's grab ranges, and his poke game is generally also weaker than either of theirs. I could do far stand D and cancel to HD mode but it's far too hard to confirm. Though at least if I'm in HD mode then I can make myself safer by HDCing my pressure strings into qcf+C,B/D.