Replying to Fatacon's post from the General Discussion thread...:
I can't really agree with that. If you played her, you'd know that pretty much all her moves had important utility.
- qcf + p built meter and was integral for combos
- dp used for practically all combos and anti-air
- command grab for mixups, EX version for combo potential
- EX counter was a strong reversal
You're taking what I'm saying too literaly!
But as a counter point, how many matches have you seen with her, where almost ALL that was used was a spam of Jump CD / Jump D, and then the anywhere juggle DM?
I agree that she was a character with a well-rounded (by design) moveset, but she basically has a 2nd DM that no one used, teleport movement that was barely used, and lots of her players could completly forget her command throw / maybe even counter, and play in a straight-forward, dry way.
I don't really see how her counter gets so much worse by basically losing the 2 normal hits and / or HD activation chance off it. She's not forced into drive cancelling to do a combo, and she still has a special that can be looped into a normal reset + DM after it.
The only thing she didn't use a lot was teleport. It was gimmicky, but you could still use it decently in blockstrings. I think people just rode the wave of hating Liz. All they needed to do was tone down her damage, not necessarily change the properties on her moves. If they toned down her dmg and took away the meter gain on her qcf + P, she would have been fine. EX counter is going to be terribly inefficient after the changes. If you think about it, they're only making her more stagnant.
Eh, don't see the increase in stagnation. The EX Dash give her the unique ability to add invunlerability to any EX move she has, all for one bar. compared to the old EX counter & qcf+p meter build putting people on extreme movespam / turtle strategy settings. With her new changes, there are actually things you want to save meter for, other than Turtley Counter and anywhere juggle DM.
Also, making the EX Counter, EX Dash, and EX throw all have the same followup (A special move) works towards making each meter-burning option equal. It become less about "save the meter for the counter", and more "save the meter for the best option, per situation". Along with the "weaker" EX counter now making the Neomax Counter more tempting to use.
I think the changes they actually instilled are just more ambitious than the methods you stated. Not saying yours couldn't have worked or anything, just that... as a person who played Liz in XI (she was my main reason for playing it, actually!), what they've given her now, sounds so much more interesting than what she was. A multi-way mixup out of an EX) command dash just sounds excellent. Grab their slow-uptake moment, punish their backdash with a dashing uppercut, continue chip damage with a swooping arch special... Each of which will get more damage and follow up potential, if you guessed right.
I think the design philosophy for her character was less to be an unmoving wall (as her old options made her), and more to make her a free-flowing, "on your feet" kind of attacker, who had the bonus of being able to read and predict her opponents, no matter the situation. Basically making her stronger at deal with things up-close, and taking away her distanced, abusable stuff, has given her a more interesting focus.
Some players might still make her into something of a 1-trick pony
(exaggeration!), but I think she'll be a better character overall, now.
If someone told me I'd be able to take Shermie's Diamond Dust EX, and turn it into any other EX move, I'd have been so happy
....
Oh well. Shermie Alt colors for Liz, here we go!
