Author Topic: Some info on the moves nobody ever really used...  (Read 2085 times)

Shirakani

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Some info on the moves nobody ever really used...
« on: July 19, 2016, 01:58:12 PM »
Guess I'll start off with some move analysis with my oldest main, seeing as like, everyone seems to hate the character :P

Aragami (qcf+A) cannot reliably be used as a poke like in KOF98 (boo, sigh) as its range is shorter than Kyo's far D...  :(

As a tradeoff, the Aragami and its chain followups are incredibly fast. This is a speed I only ever dreamed of the move having back in 98 or even in 2k2, it would have elevated Kyo a full tier. dB st.B qcf+A combos, dB dA qcf+A combos like in KOF13... Not that anyone used the move in XIII either c.c

Aragami -> Mu no Tsuchi -> Tsurube Otoshi (qcf+A -> hcb+B -> A/C) has a lot of potential for massive mindfuckery. The timing of the Mu no Tsuchi is MUCH slower than every other Aragami followup, almost oldskool KOF98 slow and it does NOT combo (most definitely intentional). Clearly this chain is designed to play the high low game as the Mu no Tsuchi hits low while the Tsurube Otoshi afterward is the canned hyperhop dwnC overhead that hard knocks down. The Mu no Tsuchi is also supercancellable... with how SLOW it is it can be used as a hitconfirm. If you sweep/trip your opponent with it, supercancel!

Dokugami chain is, well, as it was in KOF13 I guess. It has also suffered from shortened range. The Dokugami chain unlike KOF13 does not fully connect off of close C, f+B unless opponent is in or near the corner, only the Dokugami will hit and the followup Tsumiyomi (hcf+C) will not if the opponent is in the open. Its damage however IS slightly higher than the upkicks into hcb+K however (slightly... like || slightly...). Reason nobody really uses it is the upkicks are safer and gives you a large window of 'hrm how I fry u' thought time.

Both the Aragami and Dokugami are supercancellable off of. To SC off of the Aragami, you have to use qcf+C afterward, as another qcf+A simply does the Ku Kizu followup. Stop using just the rungrab elbow people, other options are out there! :P Hell while I'm on the topic, the Ku Kizu followup AND the Dokugami's 'Tsumiyomi' followup can be SC'd off of as well, JUST SAYIN! :P

Close C, f+B combos, like it always did... Why nobody uses this I have no idea.. Especially since qcf+D upkicks will guaranteed combo off it now (it never did in the past). Its slightly easier than close C, df+D, just slightly. Beginners who are trying to learn Max mode comboing should do close C, df+D 2hit, MAX, close C, f+B, qcf+D upkicks -> whatever you want... Its a lot easier on the execution.

Easy no brainer MAX mode combo goes like: close C or dB dA, df+D 2hit, MAX.. close C, f+B, qcf+C -> supercancel qcf 2x+C -> Climax... gets the job done, decently big damage.

...That being said, just doing close C, f+B, qcf+C -> supercancel qcf 2x+C -> Climax cancel does MORE than the above... same stock cost. Goes to show that if you want to get say an extra 10-20% damage you'll have to really work the EX moves to make it worthwhile, and sometimes the reward may not be that much greater either.

EX hcb+K is a command throw, like in KOF13... Its range however is much shortened compared to 13 and it now has a whiff animation (BOO!)... But aside from this it still can be used as a threat if you've manually entered MAX mode as it gives Kyo another dimension that you do not expect from the character. The fact that you have to be in MAX mode tho greatly lessens this threat as you kind of 'know' due to the MAX *sigh*. I do wish EX moves remained as they were in KOF13, they were just fine being done 'SF style'...

Oh, finally, about the Orochinagi... Anyone remember KOF2k3? Yeah, its 'like that'. Insert a SLIGHT delay, and it will execute in 1 frame after you let go. Don't delay at all and it has a longer delay coming out than if you DIDN'T delay. But clearly since ppl bitched to holy hell in 2k3, not delaying will still combo off of the upkicks. But don't expect it to combo in tighter juggle windows unless you insert that tiny delay.

What else hrms... dB dA qcf+B,B combos and will link to hcb+K, but you gotta be fast as qcf+B upkicks have very tiny ass airtime. It also links to qcf+A qcf+A K with much less effort, so better off doing that. Now you may ask 'why bother doing qcf+B instead of D upkicks?' Simple... qcf+B actually does more damage than doing the usual combo everyone's doing of dA dB df+D 1hit qcf+D,D... since the BnB is to end with hcb+K anyway, the qcb+B version does more damage 'for free' (ie you don't need the extra df+D input).

No sense working harder than you have to. Dune has a nice analysis of this qcf+B vs qcf+D upkicks on his Twitter.

Anyway, that's all the info I can think of for now that covers what hasn't already been shown in tournies and other gameplay, ie the moves no one used.

EDIT: Forgot to mention... Not sure if this is already common knowledge from 13 but the 2nd hit of Kyo's df+D command move will cancel into supers, similar to how Ryo's f+A is cancellable into supers when comboed into. If already known/common knowledge, ignore.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:27:42 PM by Shirakani »
PSN/Steam: Shirakani

Amedø310

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Re: Some info on the moves nobody ever really used...
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 02:09:13 PM »
Kyo notes:

qcf (x2)+P has invincibility when he spins around, EX has more invincibility frames: https://www.facebook.com/Amedo310/videos/vb.680907077/10153729745482078/?type=2&theater

Kyo is flying projectile invincible against small flying projectiles while charging Orochinagi: https://www.facebook.com/Amedo310/videos/vb.680907077/10153729746422078/?type=2&theater
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:21:13 PM by Amedø310 »

Shirakani

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Re: Some info on the moves nobody ever really used...
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 02:29:22 PM »
Kyo notes:

qcf (x2)+P has invincibility when he spins around, EX has more invincibility frames: https://www.facebook.com/Amedo310/videos/vb.680907077/10153729745482078/?type=2&theater


Shades of KOF99 right here... Not sure if this is more or less (probably less) invincibility than 99 but damn good to know. This version of the 182 Shiki back then was quite often used standalone just to blow right through random shit and it worked WAY too well.
PSN/Steam: Shirakani