Author Topic: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread  (Read 513173 times)

4leaf

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #750 on: October 15, 2010, 03:31:48 AM »
All I know is that we better get the rules set come Evo time because it may not even have a chance to make it to the roster if the community's indecisive on which rule to use. I hear SC4 almost didn't make it last year because of Hilde's button mapping fiasco. I'm with GoldenGlove when it comes to national/international tourneys. I want to see high level play during big tourneys. Let them play whoever they want to (excluding bosses of course).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 04:01:53 AM by 4leaf »

Nagare_Ryouma

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #751 on: October 15, 2010, 03:54:32 AM »
I think a ratio system or banning characters is not the answer (bosses excluded), but I understand that is something you guys have agreed on for this particular tournament (and as you mentioned, noone is forced to do it if they don´t want to).
As some people said before, I found it challenging and exciting to try to beat a top tier character.
And of course, I wanna select the character I want, and when I play this game I WILL play as Raiden (I liked the character design since the beggining) and as K' (one of my favourite characters).
I like others like the complete Fatal Fury Team, Kyokugenryu Team, Yagami Team, Kim, Kyo, Shen, King & of course Ralf. I will be using those too, point is I don´t like anyone telling me wich character/team I can or can´t use.
Again, I don´t mean in this paticular case cause it is something you have agreed on and noone is forced to go by it, but this is my take on the matter, both for tournies and casuals.
The character is not a boss but from the regular roster....then deal with it....or send hate mail to SNK (or whoever created the game).

FataCon

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #752 on: October 15, 2010, 04:04:45 AM »
if you think about it, if you choose not to play top tier then you're basically choosing to overcome them with whichever characters you choose to play with. nobody picks characters hoping to lose. that said, it's a bit contradictory to feel scorn for top tier picking; it's your choice to not play them. popularity and success are what drive people to pick up and play new characters. you want more variety? pick up a new character and see what they can do. people are getting excited by metaphysics doing testing with ryo and kane's chin. are they top tier characters? not exactly. point is, players are bringing these characters hype so that other people want to try them and potentially use them. with play comes experience and that's how character popularity waxes and wanes (and sometimes tiers change). we find new tricks to overcome battles that aren't in our favor, and when we win, it begins to spread interest across the board.

like i said before, you can't really tell people who they should or shouldn't play. everyone enjoys the game in their own way. of course, if you want to do the ratio thing casually, that's all personal preference. not stepping on anyone's shoes, but i don't even mind fighting a k' all the time (i haven't played against anyone's raiden yet).  if anything, my game might get better because of it. play the game and see where the community takes it. the discussion so far about ratio and tiers just seems like it's breaking up the enjoyment and hype people have for this game. the game, for the most part, is still pretty new. if you're already setting rules and restrictions on characters, what will new players think? how is the scene supposed to grow if the people already supporting it are bickering and in disarray?

Nagare_Ryouma

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #753 on: October 15, 2010, 05:30:08 AM »
One question to people who are playing this game, does K' still says "nandato?" when he is defeated?
On most of the videos he just screams, but I noticed that sometimes Iori says his classic "kono mama dewa owaranzo"and sometimes he just screams (I think the same happens with Shen).
I know it is a stupid question but those are some of the many things I love about KOF (although it doesn´t affect the game itself, of course).

HaxMurderer

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #754 on: October 15, 2010, 05:31:31 AM »
uh..if everyone at A.I. is cool with the idea, I see no reason why they shouldn't go with it. However, using these rules for EVO? I think not.

THE ANSWER

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #755 on: October 15, 2010, 05:53:03 AM »
uh..if everyone at A.I. is cool with the idea, I see no reason why they shouldn't go with it. However, using these rules for EVO? I think not.

it's pretty much 50/50 at AI right now.
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Kane317

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #756 on: October 15, 2010, 08:45:05 AM »
This isn't a national rule or interstate tourney rule. We're a pretty tight knit group of players that play each other all the time, short of fatacon maybe, (and to a certain extent metaphysics,) we've played each other hundreds of hours.

Would I suggest this with and enforce it with a group of strangers? Absolutely not. I'm not about forcing people or banning characters. The Answer knows I'm adamantly against banning Raiden. This is not what it's about. People are taking this way out of context. I like the way metaphysics said it, "it gives me a reason to pick up someone new." Think of it like a door opening than slamming shut.

Oh and once again, we're just doing it for one day, and then it back to whatever.

JeremyH

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #757 on: October 15, 2010, 09:32:53 AM »
What's up guys. First post here, so first off I'd like to say thanks to everyone here for all of the awesome info and videos you guys have compiled/created! This really is the premiere online KoF community.

Now then, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on this ratio idea. As a ubiquitous competitive standard, I think it's ridiculous. In a tournament setting, I think everyone should be able to use whichever tools are available to them to give themselves the best chance to win, and limiting character selection simply because you don't want to deal with certain tactics or teams goes against that. Sure, K' and Raiden are annoying and I'm sure I'll complain about them when I inevitably fall victim to their shennanigans, but I've also seen plenty of players work around these characters and beat them with a variety of characters. Is the ratio system really encouraging character variety or is it simply a reactionary measure founded on frustration? This isn't to say I "know better than Japan" or anything. Obviously they're leagues ahead of anyone in terms of skill level. However, recall that Japan commonly engages in plenty of other practices widely regarded as anti-competitive here in America, such as single-elimination brackets and character locking. There's just a cultural gulf when it comes to the nature of competition, and I happen to fall on the opposing side.

All that being said, I think AI's implementation of the ratio system as explained by Kane makes perfect sense. In their case it's more of a gentleman's agreement than a hard rule, a situation where a particular community determined amongst itself how they could most enjoy the game, while outsiders who show up and just want to play K' because they like his sunglasses are free to do so. I'm just saying it's not a rule I would support at a national-level competition (something I greatly hope XIII ends up garnering).

Ultimately I just support people playing whichever characters they want for whatever reasons they want. Those who want to win by any means necessary are likely to gravitate towards top tiers, and that's fine. Others may choose characters they are comfortable with or enjoy, and they may end up choosing top tiers as well, who's to say. I mean, maybe there's a player out there who's always been challenged execution-wise, but finds that the technical ease of Raiden's "hold B/D, release at opportune moment" gameplan finally allows him to have fun with the game. Should he be punished for his idiosyncracies as a player by being forced to compose the rest of his team from 0-ratio characters he may or may not have any interest in?

As others have stated, it's going to to be the players who play the characters they enjoy but are also driven to win who are going to rise to the top and show us the really hype stuff. They'll be the ones proposing strategies to beat S tiers rather than rules to gimp them. And I don't think there'll be any shortage of those players when the console version hits. Hell, I plan on being one myself. Way too many interesting characters to know what team I'll be running for sure, but right now I'm big on Ash/Benimaru/Iori, aka Team Handsome Fighters Never Lose Battles (guess who I play in SF...).

This post has gone on way too long, but I feel the need to mention one last thing. The MvC2 hate makes me sad. Sure it's incredibly unbalanced, but it's also managed to sustain a large community for several years with unmatched levels of hype. If XIII achieves a fraction of MvC2's success, balanced or not, I will be ecstatic.

See you folks around!

I'm quoting this post simply because it was well written and presents a thoughtful argument.

On the subject of the ratio system, I think enough folks believe in the Japanese playstyle to go with whatever they suggest, so if they do end up implementing the system I'd suggest NA players follow suit.  If not, then it's a much easier decision to make.

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #758 on: October 15, 2010, 06:29:29 PM »
this is my list based on character usage at AI:

5 K', Raiden(w/Dropkicks)
4 Kyo, Elisabeth, Kula, Andy, Iori
3 Shen, Takuma, Yuri, Robert,Kim
2 Chin, Benimaru, Terry,Mature,Mai,Raiden (NO Dropkicks)
1 Duolon, Goro, Clark,King, Ash,Leona
0 Joe, Athena, Ralf, Ryo,Vice, Kensou,Maxima,Hwa
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 08:00:32 PM by THE ANSWER »
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SAB-CA

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #759 on: October 15, 2010, 07:07:33 PM »
One question to people who are playing this game, does K' still says "nandato?" when he is defeated?

From what I've noticed, ever since they made Shen also say "Nandato!" since XII, K' just screams every time. I always found it weird, since Shen says it in a very similar way to K' in previous games .

Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #760 on: October 16, 2010, 01:44:01 AM »
A ratio system is restraining people from choosing who they want. Lets say for instance I want to play K', Raiden, Elizabeth *A team since day one I was planning on playing actually* I'm shit out of luck.

Yeah, I'm not really the right guy to ask about that. It happened to me in the original 2k2 years back and I ditched my entire team, learned lots of new characters and found new favorites in the process. Its probably also the reason that I can't wait to use almost the entire cast of XIII, I seriously can't decide whom to main at the moment, everyone looks so fun.

Honestly, even if they just made that K' and Raiden couldn't be on the same team I'd think it was already a step in the right direction. 2/3 wouldn't be so bad for you would it?

Zabel

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #761 on: October 16, 2010, 01:49:55 AM »
A ratio system is restraining people from choosing who they want. Lets say for instance I want to play K', Raiden, Elizabeth *A team since day one I was planning on playing actually* I'm shit out of luck.

Yeah, I'm not really the right guy to ask about that. It happened to me in the original 2k2 years back and I ditched my entire team, learned lots of new characters and found new favorites in the process. Its probably also the reason that I can't wait to use almost the entire cast of XIII, I seriously can't decide whom to main at the moment, everyone looks so fun.

Honestly, even if they just made that K' and Raiden couldn't be on the same team I'd think it was already a step in the right direction. 2/3 wouldn't be so bad for you would it?
No because it's an idiotic decision in the first place and all it's doing is punishing people for choosing teams they want to play.

Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #762 on: October 16, 2010, 01:53:03 AM »
^Ok, going in circles here.

Agree to disagree.

l2slythe

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #763 on: October 16, 2010, 03:27:10 AM »
this is my list based on character usage at AI:

5 K', Raiden(w/Dropkicks)
4 Kyo, Elisabeth, Kula, Andy, Iori
3 Shen, Takuma, Yuri, Robert,Kim
2 Chin, Benimaru, Terry,Mature,Mai,Raiden (NO Dropkicks)
1 Duolon, Goro, Clark,King, Ash,Leona
0 Joe, Athena, Ralf, Ryo,Vice, Kensou,Maxima,Hwa

WHAAAAA?!?!? Why is Yuri ranked so high?!? She was fine at 2.
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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #764 on: October 16, 2010, 04:34:01 AM »
Because it's based on character USAGE.  In other words if enough Clark players showed up and won, he'd be ranked at 5.
KOF XIII:
-K'/EX Kyo/EX Iori
-K'/Andy/Kyo
-Benimaru(Duo Lon)/Robert/Takuma(Iori)

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