Author Topic: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread  (Read 513616 times)

Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #780 on: October 16, 2010, 11:21:16 PM »
Exactly. The ratio system is the rationale you just described applied on a team-centric rather than character-centric basis. They use the same logic and attempt the same thing: to eliminate perceived advantages. They draw an arbitrary line in the sand, saying "x is acceptable but y is not." I guess it just comes down to differing definitions of game breaking. Your definition appears to be "very powerful", which top tiers certainly are. My definition of game breaking is "literally unbeatable", which top tiers certainly aren't.

We have seen vids from US, Japan and Taiwan and its pretty clear what characters are top tiers. We are not going on assumptions here, which is what your argument seems to be based around.

Kane asked why Japan has proposed this system and I personally think that its because they recognize the effort that went into the game and actually really like it. And this system is proposed to prolong the game's life, basically doing something about the balance when the dev isn't (or hasn't yet). Just like in that Dune interview translated a while back, he talked negatively of the game's balance but at the same time you could sense that he really liked the game and soon after we got KCE vids with the no K'/Raiden rule.

Eripio69

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #781 on: October 16, 2010, 11:57:57 PM »
XBLA KOF 2002 UM - NOV 3rd :D

FINALLY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dknNIcU02eA

Dr.Faust

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #782 on: October 17, 2010, 12:04:56 AM »
Quote
We have seen vids from US, Japan and Taiwan and its pretty clear what characters are top tiers. We are not going on assumptions here, which is what your argument seems to be based around.

Kane asked why Japan has proposed this system and I personally think that its because they recognize the effort that went into the game and actually really like it. And this system is proposed to prolong the game's life, basically doing something about the balance when the dev isn't (or hasn't yet). Just like in that Dune interview translated a while back, he talked negatively of the game's balance but at the same time you could sense that he really liked the game and soon after we got KCE vids with the no K'/Raiden rule.

So is there a patch comeing out or has one cameout yet(I'm sorry if this is a stupid post I haven't been here in a mounth)


Also
@John
did they say anythig about the net code. becuase i don't want to buy this only to find out that the code is broken
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Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #783 on: October 17, 2010, 12:13:53 AM »
So is there a patch comeing out or has one cameout yet(I'm sorry if this is a stupid post I haven't been here in a mounth)

A patch has been released, more info here: http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=73.msg3680#msg3680

Eripio69

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #784 on: October 17, 2010, 12:28:45 AM »
@ Dr. Faust

I am 100% positive that the netcode will be good considering the treatment NGBC got.

What bothers me is:
1) Is it gonna be the very first PS2 release?
2) Is it gonna be the Tougeki version?
3) Is it gonna be a new version for XBOX?

I hope it is at least the Tougeki version and that the bosses are selectable online only if they are balanced. Having a good netcode and all those broken last bosses selectable will be as lame as KOF 98 UM online.

I am expecting something decent since they kept postponing the release date since March.

Also I'll buy the game no matter what since it is what will finance the console version of XIII :P
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 02:20:24 AM by JohnCrawley »

venusandeve

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #785 on: October 17, 2010, 03:45:24 AM »
Implying that anyone who plays top tiers does so because they feel a need to win makes all kinds of unsupported assumptions about top-tier players. It's possible (probably, even?) that they simply enjoy those characters. Even if they are playing them purely to win, who cares? Some people gain the most enjoyment from the game by winning.

we all enjoy winning, but nobody likes the fact that their favourite characters are gimped compared to a very small segment. the sheer number of players using the same 2 characters (K', Raiden) supports the theory that for some reason, they are much easier to win with. regarding my "it's just a game" remark: unless you are a pro player (making money out of the game), winning should not matter more than being good at the game in a sportsmanlike manner. choosing characters on tier is pathetic. it shows laziness and nothing more.

I infer from your avatar that you play Ash. Suppose I argued that because Ash has a DM which seals the opponent's special moves, he should in the spirit of fairness be disallowed from using any special moves himself. If you object, then you obviously need to stop caring about winning so much and realize it's just a game, right? Of course not, because it's a ridiculous rule that if passed might increase my enjoyment of the game, but would greatly compromise yours. In reality I should just man up and deal with my special moves being sealed, just like people should man up and deal with top tiers.

you extrapolate too much. but, if everyone started playing ash so much that i felt like you have to pick him to win, then i would agree he ranks at 5, and not 1. changing how his moves work means SNKP would have to recode stuff, whereas the ranking system is a gentleman's agreement which breaks the staleness. but i'm sure if you walked into AI and started playing the cheese team, nobody would stop you. for some (a lot?) us, it just got real old real fast, and moving away from that is a faster way to discover the next top tier.
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Dr.Faust

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #786 on: October 17, 2010, 05:56:19 AM »
so are k' and radin banned for now or whats going on with that. And as far as ash haveing a move that stop you from useing your speciels, well i always thought that kof charas can rely on their normals for the most part so that move dosen't seem so bad
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venusandeve

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #787 on: October 17, 2010, 06:20:21 AM »
their not banned but their considering implementing a 5 point system, meaning that if you pick a character which has been awarded 5 pts (like raiden), you have to complete your team with 2 characters from the 0 pts rank.
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Kane317

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #788 on: October 17, 2010, 07:02:55 AM »
If they really wanna try new characters they'll just do it, they don't need some system to promote it.

Well now they're going to.  Are you concerned the K' and Raiden players are incapable of learning new characters, or better yet, incapable of winning without?  Surely they can, and they will learn their new characters, it's really not a big deal since in the end they're winning right?

Once again I if I want to beat someone with a wider selection of characters I'll just do it regardless of whether or not a ratio system is in place.

It's almost as if you're scared of a little push.  Remember, we're not enforcing anyone to join the ratio system, it's there's own free will.

Okay I'll answer, I don't give a fuck why the Japanese decided and I probably won't be able to figure out until someone translates a couple of blog post or something. They may be doing it for the same reasons as you or they may be doing it for something completely different. Until I reach the SBO level or start traveling *Former I doubt extremely*.

I am not surprised at all.

---
One last thing and I think only time will tell after this.  The people against the ratio system are all under the assumptions that the "other tier" players cannot beat the top tier characters.  We're not condoning this system out of desperation (can't beat the top tiers), we're doing this because it encourage variety quicker, makes games more interesting than seeing the same characters, NOT because we cannot defeat K' or Raiden, Liz, Kula etc...

If you're new at the game, I think you should use whoever you want because you really have no choice.  3 months later and you're still hung up on the same characters to me is a cop out.  It's one thing to prefer a character, nothing wrong with that, but at least try learning someone new as well and then return to your favorite character.

I am fairly confident in a few months everyone at AI will be happier once that they've explored newer characters, ultimately what we want is everyone to play Random to demonstrate a better mastery of XIII (which comprises of 31 characters).  Think about it, what's the worst that can happen?  You learn more, you learn how to fight more, and if they're still unhappy they can return to K', Raiden, and co.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 07:04:38 AM by Kane317 »

JTSNOW6

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #789 on: October 17, 2010, 01:02:09 PM »

Zabel

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #790 on: October 17, 2010, 03:13:44 PM »
Well now they're going to.  Are you concerned the K' and Raiden players are incapable of learning new characters, or better yet, incapable of winning without?  Surely they can, and they will learn their new characters, it's really not a big deal since in the end they're winning right?
I never once said or implied anything of the sort.

It's almost as if you're scared of a little push.  Remember, we're not enforcing anyone to join the ratio system, it's there's own free will.
I'm not scared of a little push. And I admit I'm mainly debating this because it's something I like to do and there really is no point to this seeing how it;s optional. Just voicing my opinion.

I am not surprised at all.

One last thing and I think only time will tell after this.  The people against the ratio system are all under the assumptions that the "other tier" players cannot beat the top tier characters. We're not condoning this system out of desperation (can't beat the top tiers),
Never thought this once and anyone that does is a fool.


we're doing this because it encourage variety quicker, makes games more interesting than seeing the same characters, NOT because we cannot defeat K' or Raiden, Liz, Kula etc...
You're encouraging vareity artifically though which is what I'm having a problem with. The best way to influence varieity is just by showing off what other characters can do through training and just playing, not making people play others under a ratio system. Note from here on out I'm speaking of it hypothetically that all tournaments and such are ran under the ratio system and you don't have a choice if this is how things are run on the matter.


If you're new at the game, I think you should use whoever you want because you really have no choice.  3 months later and you're still hung up on the same characters to me is a cop out.  It's one thing to prefer a character, nothing wrong with that, but at least try learning someone new as well and then return to your favorite character.
Personally as a guy who's pretty much stuck with the same team in KoF if it's possible *Yamazaki & Billy then Geese, Clark, Andy, Vice, & Heavy D depending on the game* I don't see how it;s a cop out in the slightest, ya know maybe I just don;t care about anyone else in the cast *Not that true with me, I just really jell with tat set of characters*.

Eripio69

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #791 on: October 17, 2010, 06:24:30 PM »
Guys can someone confirm if that is true?

Quote
On Ver 1.1 it takes Raiden 16+ seconds to do a Level 3 drop kick. For a Level 4 Drop dick, it takes 25+ seconds to get there. Now think about that. That's almost HALF the round to charge a level four drop kick. And you have to hold two buttons to do it on top of that. Do you have any idea how much you lose without those two buttons? 25 seconds is a LONG time in the world of KOF to charge for an attack.

Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #792 on: October 17, 2010, 06:58:20 PM »
Posted by the Professor on MMC:

Quote
Just a quick note on Ratio charts, they're basically meant for some local tournaments and not really for a wide-region tournament like Tougeki.
That said, here goes a different one...


Ratio Chart, Shinjuku Carnival version

* One of the main arcades attacting KOFXIII players in Tokyo.
* Chart considers character usage within Carnival and will be used for next month's tournament.

Max 4 points
4- K', Raiden
3- Andy, Shen, Kyo, Iori, Kula, Elisabeth, Takuma
2- Leona, Ash, Benimaru, Yuri, Kim, Duolon, Chin
1- Goro, Terry, Kensou, Mature, Maxima, Joe, Robert, King, Hwa, Ralf
0- Mai, Athena, Clark, Ryo, Vice




On another little tidbit, Tougeki is pretty much no holds barred. Aside from the fame, add in the fact that they offer prize money, things can get ugly since competitors hide their best techs and bugs until their time on the stage. That's why a few of the bug reports for XIII didn't pop out until rather recently; players spilled them out after the tournament since they no longer cared.

Local competitions won't ever go as far since they can get closed down for gambling if they offer prizes. The situation is different for Tougeki since they have sponsors and the monetary transaction is indirect, plus they don't operate under red-light district law which is what arcades are required to adhere to.

Still don't think Vice should be that low but the list seems  better overall, reducing to 5 levels was a good idea too.

l2slythe

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #793 on: October 17, 2010, 07:59:21 PM »
Guys can someone confirm if that is true?

Quote
On Ver 1.1 it takes Raiden 16+ seconds to do a Level 3 drop kick. For a Level 4 Drop dick, it takes 25+ seconds to get there. Now think about that. That's almost HALF the round to charge a level four drop kick. And you have to hold two buttons to do it on top of that. Do you have any idea how much you lose without those two buttons? 25 seconds is a LONG time in the world of KOF to charge for an attack.

Yes.... its posted on Raiden's character discussion.
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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #794 on: October 17, 2010, 08:01:35 PM »
Sorry if this has already been answered, but what exactly is the basis for these ratios?  Usage, or is there a tier list out there somewhere?