Hit Stun and Block Stun

[thec0re3]

I've been meaning to ask but never got around to it. I was wondering if some could explain in more detail what these mean and how there applied during a match.

[omegaryuji]

Hit stun = forced animation that a character goes through after being hit (usually some kind of reeling, "that hurt, yo" sort of thing)
Block stun = forced animation that a character goes through after blocking something (usually just being stuck in the same blocking pose)

Hit stun or block stun - (remaining active frames of attacker + recovery frames)  = attacker's frame advantage/disadvantage

So, to put some numbers to words, let's look at the frame data for Iori's cr.B in 2002:

Frame data on cr.B: 5 startup frames, 5 active frames, 5 recovery frames
(Note: I'm not counting the first active frame as part of the startup)
(If you're unclear on how to read frame data, this GG article explains it very well)

From the 2002 wiki here:
Block stun for cr.B: 9 frames
Hit stun for cr.B: 11 frames

If you hit on the first active frame (the usual case), you have 11-(4+5)=+2 frame advantage.

If you get it blocked on a best-case meaty (you push the button while the other character is invincible and time it so that they get hit on the last active frame), you have 9-(0+5) = +4 frame advantage.  Doing another cr.B immediately when you recovery will result in hitting your opponent out of anything that isn't instant (like Clark's hcf+K) or invincible to lows.

[thec0re3]

I was never good with numbers I semi understand but there are still thing that are unclear. For instance, your example of hit on first active frame for iori's cr. b where does the -(4+5) come from?  I did try and look at the GG article but I can't tie the two together.

[omegaryuji]

2002 Iori's cr.B has 5 total active frames.  Hitting with the first one mean hit stun begins with (5-1)=4 active frames remaining.  Since the attack already hit, though, the rest of the active frames for that particular hit cannot register another hit.  This is where the "4" comes from.

After the active frames, there are 5 recovery frames.  This is where the "5" comes from.

Basically, you're looking at the total animation time between when your attack hit and when you finish recovering.

You don't have to use numbers.  The important thing is that hit stun and block stun are animations that a character goes through after being touched by an attack.  However, putting the frame data to work for you is where you can start doing things like judging how safe/unsafe something is on block, developing frame traps (setups where your opponent will take a counterhit if he tries to do anything other than blocking or an invincible special/DM), and coming up with your own combos.  Just have to keep in mind that frame data does not consider spacing, so it's important to still test things out to make sure they work, but frame data can give you some definitive answers.

[thec0re3]

ah ok now its starting to make sense. Now I see why frame data is such a great learning tool.

[FataCon]

I guess I'll explain it a little less technically than omegaryuji (who did a good job explaining, btw) and throw in some real world applications/uses.

Hitstun and blockstun are basically states caused to a character when getting hit or blocking an attack, respectively.

Hitstun is particularly notable in the combo process. Ever notice how some combos work when starting with a heavy attack vs a light attack? That's because the attack initiating the combo either does or does not provide enough hitstun. Light attacks don't always "stun" on hit long enough for a follow up to connect, while heavy attacks usually do. Hitstun can only be canceled by mechanics such as combo breakers or bursting, which is not present in KOF.

Blockstun is a bit more technical in the sense that you don't necessarily always see the effects of it outright. As omega explained, when an opponent blocks your attack, they are locked in a blocking animation for the duration of however long your attack causes blockstun (which is generally denoted as being either positive/negative X amount of frames on block). At this point, even if your attack animation has ended but causes a large amount of blockstun, this puts you are quite an advantage. For example, CD attacks generally cause a large amount of blockstun. A general tactic is to pressure a defensive opponent using hop CD attacks. The reason for this is because once the opponent is locked in blockstun, you recover from your attack before they have a chance to retaliate, letting you lead in with the mix-up of your choice. Unlike hitstun, KOF has 2 systems to combat blockstun: Guard Cancel Roll and Guard Cancel Blowback.

Tick throws and frame traps are large examples of this.

When an opponent is in hitstun, they generally cannot be thrown, unless it is a comboable throw, and they can never be throw while in blockstun. For example, if you were to force an opponent to block a heavy or CD attack and attempted to throw them even with a throw (even command and super throws), it would whiff. However if you force them to block a light attack, it generally doesn't cause enough blockstun for protection against throws since the duration is so short. Tick throwing is a mix-up tactic employed by taking advantage of blockstun fundamentals and frame data.

Omega didn't go over it, but attacks generally have 3 stages: startup>active>recovery. Frame traps are blockstrings that utilize blockstun and the 3 stages of attacks. Let's say you have a mirror match between two characters. If they jab on the same frame within range of each other, they will trade hits. This is where blockstun factors in to frame traps. Using the example mentioned earlier, causing blockstun with a heavy or CD attack, the opponent is now in blockstun and you have recovered. This scenario in mind, if both characters were to attempt a jab, the attacking character would win and not trade as previously mentioned. This is because the attacking character has the frame advantage while the defending character is still in blockstun. Because the attacker gets to initiate the attack while the defender is still recovering, his jab would win because his attack would have reached the active frames of the attack while the defender is still in startup frames (period of time in which the attack does not yet have a collisionbox nor can cause damage) of his own attack. This is the essence of a frame trap: setting up a situation in which the opponent has a window to attack (no longer in hitstun or blockstun), but their startup>active frames are not quick enough to retaliate without being counterhit.

However, I won't go into more detail unless you have more questions. It tends to get quite complicated to explain the more you ask how hitstun and blockstun are integrated into the overall flow of combat.

[Kane317]

^ Needs to be in a tutorial and wiki, good stuff omega and Fatacon.

[thec0re3]

Has there been any frame data available for the console version as yet?

[desmond_kof]

"that hurt, yo" sort of thing)

I loled at this.

[Reiki.Kito]

Has there been any frame data available for the console version as yet?

No, but expect it soonish from some video game magazine!

[necronomiCRON]

Thanks for the explanation on this guys. I never really understood the concept of "stun" and now everything is so clear.

[The Light]

Thanks for explaining this.

[giga_d]

A general tactic is to pressure a defensive opponent using hop CD attacks. The reason for this is because once the opponent is locked in blockstun, you recover from your attack before they have a chance to retaliate, letting you lead in with the mix-up of your choice.

in this game I feel the blockstun on air cd's has been reduced greatly compared to 2k2um. You can air cd clark in the corner at an early height and he can normal grab you as you land. I will have to test somethings out. Maybe because he is a bit taller than other chars.

[necronomiCRON]

A general tactic is to pressure a defensive opponent using hop CD attacks. The reason for this is because once the opponent is locked in blockstun, you recover from your attack before they have a chance to retaliate, letting you lead in with the mix-up of your choice.

in this game I feel the blockstun on air cd's has been reduced greatly compared to 2k2um. You can air cd clark in the corner at an early height and he can normal grab you as you land. I will have to test somethings out. Maybe because he is a bit taller than other chars.

You're not doing it right then. It has to be a late hit to really gain the advantage.

[FataCon]

in this game I feel the blockstun on air cd's has been reduced greatly compared to 2k2um. You can air cd clark in the corner at an early height and he can normal grab you as you land. I will have to test somethings out. Maybe because he is a bit taller than other chars.

They lowered both hitstun and blockstun values for jump attacks from arcade to console version. Jump attacks now have to hit deep (late) in order to become comboable or safe on block. You generally have to hit any jumping attack around the waist or lower. Usually any jump attack that hits around the head is too high. This was done so that only well-timed jump-ins would be rewarded accordingly.