Billy Kane

LouisCipher · January 07, 2012, 06:58:33 AM

I honestly think Billy might be best as an Anchor. Feel free to disagree though.

jinxhand · January 07, 2012, 08:29:17 AM

Quote from: LouisCipher on January 07, 2012, 06:58:33 AM
I honestly think Billy might be best as an Anchor. Feel free to disagree though.

I whole-hardheartedly agree... He's great as point, and can build meter like a madman, but for me I personally feel he poses even more of a threat as anchor, since he has enough meter to do substantial damage. On top of that, whatever meter he lost gets built back just as fast.

On the "psychological" side of things, he's a very annoying zoning character with a good amount of tools to rushdown with, so you can always play with the opponent's head, kinda like how grapplers usually have that edge to them. You don't quite want Billy in your face (especially with EX dp+K as a trump card, and safe f+A's), but at the same time you don't want him to far from you unless you have something to trade his long range pokes with. Many characters do, but some of those moves are slower than his usual pokes. You damn sure don't want him to run the clock if ever... With this type of mindset, I'm glad he doesn't have his counter moves. It would be too unfair imo...

So ultimately, when the pressure is on, Billy can always take it up a notch. For me, I do have Mature or another battery as point, primarily for that sheer purpose... Plus, I feel that Billy can't quite clean up as quick as other characters, but with meter, it definitely allows him to. With him as anchor, again there's no need to worry about building meter, per sé since it's already there-- one less thing to worry about...

I've been anchoring Billy since 95 though... In some KOFs he's good as point, but I do feel he would serve best as anchor...

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I'm gonna post up some notes here. Some of this info might already be known, but it should at the very least help the young-blood who decide to learn Billy Kane... Here we go:

*Longest pokes (From longest to shortest) - j.C, b+A, CD, d.A, s.B, d.B

*d.A and b+A can only cancel into his mash P special (senpuukon). You can HD bypass to make other things cancel.

* mash P special (senpuukon) doesn't eat fireballs like it did in OG KOFs

* best HD bypass option from anything is dp+BC. Using b+A, s.C, s.D, or d.C will allow Billy to use the BD Bypass Technique. The HD Bypass also works with Senpuukon, but only with s.C, d.C, and b+A.

* speaking of HD Bypass, he has EX HD Bypasses using dp+KK and EX Senpuukon. dp+KK is easier to do, and serves better in combos if the player decides to use it for whatever reason. EX Senpuukon, however, isn't really worth the time, as it requires a trick to doing it, and you can't cancel out of it.

* best way to use b+A without sliding back (making it's hitbox useless in many cases) is to cancel it from either d.B or d.C

* if you cancel b+A from s.D, Billy will retreat backwards due to s.D's animation (Billy does a high kick, but he leans back enough.

* free canceling can only be done from qcb+C into any move except Senpuukon (tap A). You can free cancel into his super also.

* qcb+A is great to use in combos that start with a hard hit to f+B. From there you can dp+BD and combo accordingly...

* CD to hcf+C~qcf+C takes a good chunk of guard meter... Aside from f+A, this can be something that can help break that meter so you can land a combo in for free with the meter built...

* cr.C, f+B, qcb+A (DC), dp+BD, f+B, dp+B, qcf+A (DC), qcb+C (FC), qcb+A, dp+B, qcf,hcb+AC should work anywhere from my testing... By the 2nd f+B, you should have them in the corner to do the rest of the combo... 2 stocks and 1 full drive is require, but by the time you finish the actual combo, you will have built an additional stock...

* In HD mode, you can do connect Neomax from either hcf+C~qcf+C or just a regular hcf+C. The former does more damage obviously, but strangely enough, they do the same number of hits (11)...

* I'm wondering if there are any negative edge tricks with Billy that can be used for more difficult combos...

t3h mAsTarOth...! · January 18, 2012, 06:15:22 AM

Found an awesome corner b&b for Billy with 1 meter and 1 drive... Timing for the combo is very strict but the damage is amazing...

j.D, cr.C, dp+B, hcf+C, qcf+C, DC, qcb+C, *slight delay* dp+B, DM = 503 dmg

The second dp+B timing is crucial... You need to time it (opponent should be right at your head level)... If you time dp+B too early or too late then the last hit of the DM will whiff...

jinxhand · January 28, 2012, 06:46:58 AM

Dope combo t3h mAsTarOth!!! I need put that in my repertoire...

I'm not going back on what I said about Billy being a good anchor, but I also feel he can be good on point (I just prefer him as anchor because he's capable of doing some ridiculous things with a full meter)... He builds enough meter, and he has enough short combos that he can do that can kill without requiring too much Drive or Meter... The mind games aren't as strong on point imo, but he can still be annoying to a degree...

t3h mAsTarOth...! · January 28, 2012, 05:48:57 PM

ya i use him on point... to me he is the perfect point character... he has a lot of annoying shit that becomes too risky and looses to reversals... if he is on point then other characters don't want to throw out weak reversals that often because the risk vs. reward is in Billy's favour... especially if Billy has them cornered... also spamming hop C+D becomes more fun...

if i can get to the second round then i completely change my game... if i have full drive then instead of regular block strings i'll try to bait more reversals... if i land a hit then i'll go straight for his HD combo...

jinxhand · February 07, 2012, 07:17:37 PM

I'm starting to not like his qcb+P moves more and more... I'm not even trading hits with specials, its just jumping normals I trade with at any point... I understand trading hits with j.CD, but it seems the only thing this move is good against is empty jumps, but barely anyone does that sort of thing...

I will say I'm appreciating j.C more because it gives me a sort of "Dhalsim" feel, as if I can "Yoga Snipe" from afar when I need to punish a long range whiff.

j.B is great also, because I can hit so low with it. I'm liking the hitbox for that move alot...

LouisCipher · February 08, 2012, 05:54:17 AM

I think of the QCB+P to be more of a Yomi thing. You don't just throw it out there you do it if you know they're going to jump at you. You could also cancel into it off standing CD, it could really throw people off if you're playing defensive.

jinxhand · February 09, 2012, 08:13:25 AM

I kinda see it that way, but it's like even if the guess was right, you still manage to trade hits... I did manage to beat out some characters (Athena, Ralf, another Billy Kane), which has got me wondering if the move is just good against certain characters, and if I need to rely on c.C for others... I'm still gonna try and work this in my gameplan...

Oh yeah, here's a great poke string: s.D, qcf+A... Offline, I managed to use this, and it puts you farther away because s.D makes Billy lean back a bit, keeping him relatively safe enough to attempt whatever (AA, another poke, etc)... I'm not too sure how this fairs online, but I'll post up the results... The only thing I know is that GCCD would work, but I believe it's character specific, because some successful GCCDs still whiff...

LouisCipher · February 09, 2012, 04:26:50 PM

From what I've seen c.C will get beat out by certain jump ins. Kyo's (both of them) jumping down C will either beat it or trade but Ryo and Takuma/Mr Karate's jumping D will beat it clean. So will Kim's j.CD.

t3h mAsTarOth...! · February 14, 2012, 05:41:42 AM

Like Billy needs more damage... Was just having fun and cooked up a few more fun corner combos...

On Standing Opponents -

cr.C, qcb+C, qcb+AC, hcf+AC~qcf+C = 403 dmg (mid-screen 2 meter punish on anyone)
j.D, cr.C, qcb+C, *delay* dp+B, hcf+C~qcf+C, DC, qcb+C, *delay* dp+B, DM = 544 dmg (1+1)
j.D, cr.C, qcb+C, *delay* dp+B, hcf+C~qcf+C, DC, qcb+C, *delay* dp+B, EX DM = 636 dmg (2+1)
j.D, cr.C, qcb+C, qcb+AC, *delay* dp+B, hcf+C~qcf+C, DC, qcb+C, *delay* dp+B, EX DM = 719 dmg (3+1)

BioBooster · March 19, 2012, 01:58:09 PM

Frame data up:
http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Billy_Kane_(XIII)#Move_Metadata

Enjoy!

desmond_kof · March 20, 2012, 08:59:43 PM

Anyone like to use his j.A?

t3h mAsTarOth...! · March 22, 2012, 05:30:05 AM

it's good for air-air... but i rather just have meter and ex dp+K them and get a full combo...

also after reading his frame data... i've started to use s.A more... s.A to d.C is a frame trap... i've been using this to sneak in d.B which you can do up to 2 after doing the s.A... you can also gor for throw... and if you get them to duck after s.A then you can hop forward and j.D and you'll cross-up...

jinxhand · March 23, 2012, 02:10:53 AM

Yeah air to air, j.A hands down is great, but I feel like this works on certain matchups and not all of them...

EX dp+K is still good for that, but personally I try to work for a counter hit with that, because more combos become possible...

Although, depending on how high you hit the opponent with EX dp+K, he can practically do more damage... I did manage to trade with this, I just can't remember with who and what move they were doing (I think Terry and Beni)...

How often do you guys use Senpuukon???

LouisCipher · March 23, 2012, 02:37:10 AM

Quote from: t3h mAsTarOth...! on March 22, 2012, 05:30:05 AM

also after reading his frame data... i've started to use s.A more... s.A to d.C is a frame trap... i've been using this to sneak in d.B which you can do up to 2 after doing the s.A... you can also gor for throw... and if you get them to duck after s.A then you can hop forward and j.D and you'll cross-up...

That is so dirty... I love it!

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Billy Kane