Terry Bogard (Console)

[NCV]

The spacing for the roll is a little weird and hard to detail since the whole thing happens so fast, but since the ex crackshoot moves terry forward, you will almost always have to take a step back in order to make the roll ambiguous. So you land the cracksoot, take a quick step back, then roll. If you want to actually cross them up, then you might want to delay the roll a bit so you don't give it away (when you cross them up terry will turn around), the only problem is that your attack might not be as meaty, if at all.

[Reiki.Kito]

You can always do the back and forth to mess with the spacing.

[Crimson_King15]

This is wayyyy to gimmicky terry already whas many safe jumps, cross ups, baits, and meatie after an ex crackshoot. a roll set up sounds like more or a risk than an asset at this point. With ex crackshoot there is not really a constant distance you will be placed at.you So can't really make a SINGLE roll setup because the distance isn't consistant.

[NCV]

Eh, idk about "too" gimmicky. Sure it's a gimmick and not something you should look for in every match, but for a basic character like terry it's a nice addition to what he has.

[Crimson_King15]

No it's not. having a roll setup is only good for characters with good options after that roll. Terry's options are  better without the roll rather than with it and as prevously stated it's not worth the risk at all. first of all its a a hard knock down meaning Terry is right next to a downed opponent and has to wait until they are about to rise to even make this work. and all the time he is wasting could be uses for safe jumps, mix ups, and meaties.

2. Terry's jump angle after a delayed roll doesn't let him do anything special. doesn't have a good cross back over like beni no command grab to set up if you guess the wrong side like clark or shen he has nothing to make this worth while. Your options are baiting a reversal or well applying wake pressure, but these are all things that could have been done without the roll and done more effectivly.

[Reiki.Kito]

No it's not. having a roll setup is only good for characters with good options after that roll. Terry's options are  better without the roll rather than with it and as prevously stated it's not worth the risk at all. first of all its a a hard knock down meaning Terry is right next to a downed opponent and has to wait until they are about to rise to even make this work. and all the time he is wasting could be uses for safe jumps, mix ups, and meaties.

2. Terry's jump angle after a delayed roll doesn't let him do anything special. doesn't have a good cross back over like beni no command grab to set up if you guess the wrong side like clark or shen he has nothing to make this worth while. Your options are baiting a reversal or well applying wake pressure, but these are all things that could have been done without the roll and done more effectivly.

Ambiguity of which side your opponent is on after a roll makes it difficult to block the right way. If timed correctly, you even stuff grab attempts. With d.B, d.A, d.C, you have a pretty easy to confirm combo if they block wrong. If they block right, you'd get the same type of pressure you would if they'd blocked the cross up.

You're saying your options are better, but you're ignoring your own options weaknesses that share the same problems. For you to cross up ambiguously, you'd have to step back. Terry has a hard, if not infuriatingly difficult time faking a cross-up. So you're left with an easy to see frontal jump in our a slightly harder to read front cross up. There is a possibility to cross up hit someone and land in front of them, but that's just as difficult. If you're going to safe jump in front of someone, and they block, that's no different than the roll set up.

Meaties work when someone's not blocking. On a knockdown, if someone is doing a meaty, most people have an invincible reversal which beat meaties.  The fact you have to telegraph you're doing a meaty that's not a 4F move like d.B or d.A means that's dangerous. If they do reversal, you just got hit and in Mr. Karate's case, got hit with a 400+ point dmg combo. If they block, you're back to square one just like the roll set up.

If you're trying to mix up...Well, what mixup? Terry doesn't have high-low mix ups that don't cost meter and the only move is EX crackshoot. So why even mention it unless you HAVE  a mixup setup after crackshoot. Also like to mention that the ambiguous roll IS a mixup because you can go low from either side of someone.

So although I respect your opinion, I'm curious why these superior options are so superior.

[NCV]

You say

it's not worth the risk at all

yet I fail to see how an ambiguous roll has any more risk than just blocking. Just as well, you say you lose the opportunity to meaty, but as long as you roll early enough you still have time to meaty them with cr.. I'm not trying to say it's a gdlk mixup, I'm just saying it's not a bad option to go for when you land EX crackshoot.

[Crimson_King15]

1. meaties are used to grant frame advantage and scuff wake up mashing. a meaty crackshoot grants frame advantage on block and hit. You can combo into st c on ANYONE off a meaty crackshoot and if they block it you can begin your offense with some frame advantage. if you do it to hit as soon as the opponent stands. it only loses to invinc moves and even still some moves it scuffs depending on when the invinc frames start or stop. but in addition ex power wave is a good meaty to lock someone down and also bait a blowback out of an opponent.

2. you just made your roll set up seem even more useless first terry's  main option is a crb? that leads to very very minimal damage. also an opponent like benimaru can easily hit you without needing to guess because his bio dome super and ex fireball super have the same input on opposite directions and have invinc. or people can mash dp in a way that it auto corrects

3. you said it yourself terry has no overhead without meter. sooooo what is the real threat here? a very weak 50/50 also if you want to be ambigious you cant preform it meaty meaning you actually arent safe while attempting this at all sooo if they just mash dp or a command grab on wake up you can easily eat a dp

maybe if terry had a safer more damaging option or multiple good options maybe but having crb aka a low damage 50/50 isnt worth it

p.s. terry can cross people up and be very ambigious about it
using jump b c or d.

without rolling terry has many more options that are safer and better damage output wise.

[Reiki.Kito]

1. meaties are used to grant frame advantage and scuff wake up mashing. a meaty crackshoot grants frame advantage on block and hit. You can combo into st c on ANYONE off a meaty crackshoot and if they block it you can begin your offense with some frame advantage. if you do it to hit as soon as the opponent stands. it only loses to invinc moves and even still some moves it scuffs depending on when the invinc frames start or stop. but in addition ex power wave is a good meaty to lock someone down and also bait a blowback out of an opponent.

I don't think that's answering my question with how that's superior to an ambiguous roll. Meaty means you have to pre-emptively do the move which signals to someone with fast enough reaction to do something invincible. For it to be threatening, it'd really have to be a low or something cancellable into a special. Don't think this argument has changed much. Roll is still on equal footing with meaty if not greater because they don't know which side to block.

2. you just made your roll set up seem even more useless first terry's  main option is a crb? that leads to very very minimal damage. also an opponent like benimaru can easily hit you without needing to guess because his bio dome super and ex fireball super have the same input on opposite directions and have invinc. or people can mash dp in a way that it auto corrects

That's Benimaru and that's a gimmick that only works if he has 2 meter. 2 meter to blow up a tactic like that without guessing. That's a serious waste based on just one character, not everybody in the game. Also keep in mind you could do nothing but block and these options become punishable. I would like to know how someone could autocorrect a DP motion, that'd be useful. Characters like Terry, Kim, and Leona should be taken into account, but even so, that's obvious.

3. you said it yourself terry has no overhead without meter. sooooo what is the real threat here? a very weak 50/50 also if you want to be ambigious you cant preform it meaty meaning you actually arent safe while attempting this at all sooo if they just mash dp or a command grab on wake up you can easily eat a dp


maybe if terry had a safer more damaging option or multiple good options maybe but having crb aka a low damage 50/50 isnt worth it

p.s. terry can cross people up and be very ambigious about it
using jump b c or d.

without rolling terry has many more options that are safer and better damage output wise.

You're ignoring a fact about attacking with a cross up. They have to guess (unless it's obvious) that the person is going to hit them on the other side. With Terry, especially if you've played Terry a few times, it can get obvious when you're trying to cross someone up. Not only that, an opponent aware of tendencies and spacings will know when you're trying to cross up. With this, they have to block the other side, but they also have to crouch to do so. If they crouch, they are incapable of teching throws as well. There are exceptions, but I don't think anyone can mash out DP and hope it's going to hit someone that might be on the wrong side. I'm pretty sure the game doesn't autocorrect notations either. It might take the notation and do the move anyway, but you'll be doing the move in the wrong direction regardless. My point is pretty simple. It's a valid option and you shouldn't put it down just because you don't like it.

P.S.: cr.B, cr.A, cr.C is a link remember? That's plenty of damage and does more for you than st.C into df.C since it's easy to do supers off it.

[NCV]

Yeah, mentioning one char's 2 meter dp os as a fault against an ambiguous roll, and then saying a meaty crackshoot is a better oki option doesn't really gel. Meaty crackshoot probably isn't a good option period, since there's no mixup involved, just one of the more telegraphed moves in the game waiting to get dp'ed...

[Crimson_King15]

Ummmm I'm willing to bet money you've been hit by meaties even when your character has a dp. A dp isn't an ALMIGHTY TOOL. Speed of the dp, amount of invinc frames,

There are pleanty of characters without dps who meaty crackshoot works great on and on some characters who do have dp don't have invinc on their dps... soooo yeah there are pleaty of great match ups to use that in...
meaty crackshoot neutralize wayyyy more options than this roll mix up

A roll mix up like this that is so limited you can easily get auto correct command grab, dp, supered, hell you can just eat a move that has lower body invinc.

Meaty crackshoot: only moves with invinc on start up.
it can't get command grabbed it can't
can't get hit by most specials, and they can't use any normals because it's a meaty and they eat the move and if they block it. guess what? frame advantage on block.

Your issue seems to be you respect dps to much. just because your opponent's character has a dp doesnt mean they know how to use it or brave enough to use it. how to you think people eat meaty overheads? Ryo, Kyo, Iori, kim, and a few more get pleaty of mileage out of meaties.

[Crimson_King15]

Also i'd rather eat a dp going for larger damage than going for lesser damage. also not rolling... also i repeat i have more options not rolling!

[marchefelix]

Fucking... wow.

My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?)

[Sir Octopus (Saiki)]

Fucking... wow.

My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?)

This would actually be one of the quickest of the game. Quick nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s

[Krusan]

Fucking... wow.

My Terry Bogard 100% combo (the quickest in the game?)

This would actually be one of the quickest of the game. Quick nonetheless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7FQGd_Q2E&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s

A bit off-topic but, if looking for the fastest 100% combos, here there are some candidates:
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter one- Shen at 3.37
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter two- Kensou at 0.55
KOF XIII Combo Exhibition -Chapter three- Ralf at 1.56 and Raiden at 2.11

...just to add some sauce to it