K’ (Console)

[FM Sway]

Okay, so I took a look at about 3 matches and I noticed something I consistently have a problem with too.

You're incredibly stingy with your meter. With the changes made to K, you can't do that, you have to let it rip.

Also, off a jump in, unless you're intending to use some meter, you're intending to cross up, or you're intending for them to block, why are you doing d.B off a jump-in? You should know, as many times as you've jumped in on someone, that doing d.B into Ein Trigger (A), into second shoot won't work. You have to use EX meter to make it combo. And a lot of the time you did have the meter when you poke him. Since K' can HD bypass off a normal if the opponent is high enough, you can always go to HD mode (If you really want to) when you get that corner carry combo off.

Your opponent seemed to play a lot of grappler characters. If you're not comfortable using alternate guard, you should sniff for a reversal. The light version is a lot less punishable with the same invulnerability you need. A pro-tip against Clark is you can try to throw them on wake-up and if he did the guardpoint grab, buffer in your A or C dp to hit him out of it. Characters like Daimon and Takuma have delayed grabs they can do if they stagger them on your wake up. You can use K' Chain Drive DM to reversal it (though it's risky) because the move is throw invulnerable, you can't be thrown while doing it.

Fundamentally speaking, your ground game has to diversify. You run up and throw low B's or jump (which kind of ends your ground game). I also know how hard it is to do something different with K', trust me, but if you throw out different normals like d.A or do a short into a sweep, maybe even d.C, that makes a difference. They won't figure you out and maybe even guard cancel out of your blockstrings. Mix it up whenever you can. And work on those jump-ins! Hitting them a little too high!

You're doing okay and you're playing patient, that's good! You just have to work on capitalizing on the small windows of opportunity K' can provide for bigger damage/better positioning.

Thank you for the advice!

While I have played KOF for a long time (nothing competitive, just love the series, but now I'm really into tournaments), I'm in that SF state of mind when it comes to meter management. One aspect I seem to forget is how much meter you get back just from defending alone, and because of that I notice I end up with a fully loaded number of stocks and don't use them.

I agree 100% about my ground game, though I never really looked at it as "when you hop your ground game kinda ends," which makes a lot of sense. I notice when I'm watching my matches that I tend to be in the air too much, and sometimes, I even wind up missing the opponent completely on a crossup and/or (on a lot of occasions) I wind up in the corner. God, there's a few times in that video where I get out of the corner successfully with an EX Blackout and then I hop... right back into the corner. *facepalm*

A lot of people have said that my strings are very predictable, and I did post here in this thread before that I was very unsure what else to do to increase K's mixups, and I hit a roadblock. But I think I'll take this time now (since there's not a lot of majors or KOF tournaments going on around here in the NJ/NYC area for now) to begin experimenting on new things during matches. Sometimes I'm so intent on winning that I learn nothing, but what's the point of going to a session if I don't learn anything, right? I'll definitely try some new things.

My friend Dave is very big on grapplers in KOF, and I think it's a good thing, because I'm noticing a huge problem when it comes to grapplers like Clark. I find it really difficult to escape his ambiguous roll on wakeup right after he gets a grab on me, and I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. My mindset when it comes to that roll mixup is pretty much to guess; hop, backdash, block, or even reversal, because he does the roll very meaty, as he should.

I tend to use alternate guard, but if you notice, he doesn't seem to stagger his string when it comes to Clark; he likes to punish with the throw or just suddenly use that command dash and boom. As for Takuma, he was really command grab heavy, and I was going to ask: For how long can you alternate guard? He seems to wait a while after a string to bust that thing out, haha.

Thanks a lot for helping me! It really helps when I get other people's opinion of my gameplay, so thank you!

Anyone else is also welcome to critique. Let it rip!

[Reiki.Kito]

Yeah, I often find myself trying to do something new only to slip back into the groove. Like I said, all the things you do, I know I do as well! You just have to force that change so you can get in.

Just keep moving forward, every little bit helps.

[Reiki.Kito]

I've been playing around with K' in training mode for a few hours and I've noticed that there's some viability with the Heat Drive combo extender.

My hypothesis is that you cannot do EX Air Minute spike after Heat drive. I noticed this after about 20 attempts of trying to do EX Air Minute spikes and failing every single one. I used the same timing and same method for a regular Air Minute spike and it did work every time.

So here's a truth: After Heat Drive, you can only do regular Air Minute spike
And another: You cannot HD bypass Air minute spike using the qcb, b method.
Timing: Right after the body hits the floor, your window is open to do it. The body has to hit the floor, don't do it before. If he had that, that'd be pretty broke because he could HD bypass EX/Air Minute spike into combo for free or get a free combo from his super which would REALLY put him over the top.

If someone can do a TKed air minute spike after Heat Drive and make it HD bypass, K' might really be nutty.
After messing with qcb, b shortcut to do air minute spikes, I felt comfortable with it and could do the combo easily. This is very useful because of the viability of carrying someone to the corner and letting loose all if not most of your meter on someone. Even if we have to spend meter and drive instead of going into HD, it's still a lot of damage for mostly stock use and capitalizes on jump-ins that won't do conventional non-meter combos.

Here's what I could come up with as midscreen BnBs depending on meter:

Midscreen (From 1P start position): 1 meter
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K = 382 dmg

2 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, dp+A = 431 dmg (DP+C ender)=512
*Note: If you do dp+A, it does less damage, but you have a chance to go for a throw if they tech the soft knockdown which would do more than the DP+C

3 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, qcf,hcb+P = 589 dmg
*Note: HKD plus the last hit does 70 dmg unscaled, have to do the super as fast as possible to get it to hit.

4 meter, 1 drive
Hop D, st.C (1), qcf+A, f+D, qcf x2+P, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K, qcb+BD, d.C, qcf,hcb+AC, -wait till fall-, qcb,b+K = 698 dmg
*Note: Pay attention to see if they even try to tech because that's a free grab!

Take note, these are all midscreen combos and possible whether you screw up your spacing to get a no meter combo or not. The first combo does MORE damage than your regular 1 meter BnB and gives less meter. Something to think about. These work best APPROACHING the corner. At the end of Heat Drive, you've got to end up at the corner to do the rest. Trying out things to see what's plausible afterwards.

[Tyrant292]

Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!

[Reiki.Kito]

Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!

There are plenty of ways to do this.

If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.

You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.

The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.

[FM Sway]

Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!

There are plenty of ways to do this.

If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.

You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.

The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.

Would the slide pretty much be akin to Plinking that's used in SF games, at least when you determine how fast you have to slide from A to C?

[Tyrant292]

Anyone figured out how to cancel DP into qcf? Damn DM keeps getting in my way!

There are plenty of ways to do this.

If you do the dp motion (f, d, df) and do qcf (without hitting forward between the df of the dp and the d of the qcf), you'll do it clean. If you let go of the stick and return to neutral, the stick registers forward which will shortcut to qcfx2 if you tried to do the qcf in that combo.

You could do hcb,f+P dp shortcut and qcf. This is easier for people who can do that motion. If you can't do the motion, you can always do 360+P into qcf. It's sloppy, but you don't have to do the full 360, it's just so you go all the way to the back button.

The last one is for people who are pretty fast with button presses. You can do f, qcf+A~C. Basically, f,qcf+A~C can be both a fireball and dp motion at the same time. If you press A and slide input (tap C almost immediately after A), it'll do the combo. This works the same way as in HD mode, but the window is much bigger in HD mode.

Thanks. I am using the hcb,f+p for the cancel and the slide in is pretty strict not like Saiki's slide in so I guess I will stick with the hcb,f+p.

[Reiki.Kito]

A lot of the people I asked said KOF doesn't have plinking and shunned me for thinking of the idea, but I figure the way people plink can work the same in KOF, just that the mechanic isn't in the game.

[DJMirror949]

Dear Fullmetal, I have to ask this question because it's killing me

but were you a marth player in the south for melee?

[FM Sway]

Dear Fullmetal, I have to ask this question because it's killing me

but were you a marth player in the south for melee?

lol no, sorry. I'm a player in the NY/NJ area, gamertag is FM Sway. Though a good portion of my friends are melee players, esp considering the area.

And yeah, wouldn't plinking actually do well when it comes to the throw tech Option Select? Like you plink C and D while blocking back to compensate for both throw attempts?

[Reiki.Kito]

I'd think so too. I'm sure there are other uses for tapping like that, but with K', I'm not so sure.

I was going over some of my footage as well as the Aftershock footage. I noticed something that might be useful to try (Or atleast incorporate) into our gameplay. During a lot of the matches, TDO managed to do d.B, recover, and throw a opponent. I can assume he'd tricked the opponent into blocking low or attempted to counter poke, but grabbed the opponent in the first frame possible.

This is pretty good because K' has a d.B that's very threatening. You really want to block low or reversal. I think if you get an opponent down and fake them out, you could hold back C or D. If they reversal you block. If they don't, you can grab.

[Reiki.Kito]

I was playing around in training mode and found that K' has a cross up that can hit standing opponents. If they're ducking, it goes right over them, but you'll jump fairly far away so getting punished isn't a problem.

The way its done is to get a point blank d.B or do it a jump attack into D.B. You immediately hyper hop forward and press C/B/or A just as you get off the ground. The timing for it is pretty strict, but you manage to cross the opponent up.

The problem is that you can't do a standing normal after it. You can cancel the jump attack immediately into air minute spike though.

Example of use: You're trying to crack someone open, but they constantly alternate their guard when they see you jump so scoring conventional hop cross ups won't work (Even if they stand, d.B x2, jump, j.C is still a cross up). With this, you can poke them in the air with a cross up and score a knockdown from the minute spike or hop over the other side to deal damage. I've tried to use Kyo's st.C after being hit with this cross up, but forcing K' to do st.C as quickly as I can. Hitstun and Blockstun wear out more quickly than it looks, but it's difficult to punish if you don't know the exact timing.

So I guess it's kind of like a frame trap? I'm not sure.

I've tried blocking it, but I'd have to try it on someone to see how effective it is.

[DarKaoZ]

Man been a while since I posted here, anyways I was reading your Mid Screen BnB combos Reiki, but I think I found a good Mid screen combo with no Drive Cancel. Its basically one of my corner combos of my video, but with the same startup as yours and it can be done almost fullscreen, it just requires good timing and distance.

Mid Screen - 2 Stock
> (1 Hit) > + > + > ( + ) x2 > (Resets) > +   > Wait > + = 503 DMG

Its not that hard to pull, ones you have the timing and the distance its easy. If you are really good, you can do a Air HDBypass Minute Spike after s.A and do an HD Combo off it. I managed to pull it out, but its hard, maybe can do it only 10% of the time the HD combo.

[Reiki.Kito]

So you're making the minute spike whiff and then going into EX Chain Drive?


EDIT: Trying it out, that stand after minute spike is pretty hard to land. Do you know what I can do to time the reset or does it matter how fast I do Minute spike?

So far, I've gotten one rep in out of like five tries.

EDIT x2: I managed to get a pretty good rhythm going, I finally pinpointed where I need to do the combo. So far, the range on this is very surprising and I'm starting to like it more and more as a no-meter BNB. In the corner too, you can do d.A for an easier time at nailing the combo.

[Killey]

How does EX Chain Drive combo from the stand A after Minute Spike? I don't recall Chain Drive having anywhere juggle properties but correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm trying to rework my neutral game with K' and I was trying to compare some data on A and C Ein's Trigger but the frame data chart doesn't have the information I'm looking for. The wiki says that A Ein Trigger comes out faster than C Ein Trigger but the frame data says their start ups are the same (9 frames). It also doesn't list what the recovery frames are for both. When I was testing the two it appeared the A version recovered faster but I want to double check with other people on this.

Personally, I felt like the A version was better for whiffing; in order to get people to jump so you can react with either DP or the Second Shell follow up. I know the C version of Second Shell has a larger hitbox but the slower start up usually ended up with me getting hit before I could properly anti-air.

I only like the C Version of Ein Trigger when it comes to match ups against zoning characters. The longer active frames of Ein Trigger makes it easier to win fireball wars and get them to start jumping into AA's faster.