Vice (Arcade Version)

[Kane317]

Very nice, I see lots of videos where people drop that combo at 1:25 Nice seeing that connect, great execution.

The Ex hcf K stuns a lot longer than before, in the arcade version the timing was pretty tight.

[BiGGDaddyCane]

Very nice, I see lots of videos where people drop that combo at 1:25 Nice seeing that connect, great execution.

The Ex hcf K stuns a lot longer than before, in the arcade version the timing was pretty tight.

OOhh. Ok that most definitely the reason then. Nice

[davidkong07]

hey guys, so i've been experimenting a lot with vice's whiff CD kara special cancel properties, and it has made me realize that this shit is really really good for just about ALL of her special moves. some practical uses:

by kara whiff canceling CD with decide (hcf b or D) her range gets extended so that you can land the B version from about half a screen away and the D version from about 85% of the screen away.

doing the same with splash (dp a or c), you can land the A version from half a screen away and the C version from FULL SCREEN

it also extends the range on all her shoulder tackles, which can potentially be useful, but not as much as the other two since tackle is unsafe on block. but forreal, vice players should start kara splashing and kara sleeve-ing, because the range is ridiculous!!!

[marchefelix]

I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?

[bigvador]

now this just me talkin but i played a WICKED vice and i was wondering do anybody feel like her EX grab needs to be nerfed??

i aint sayin it should but the way this guy kept settin me up its like i had no choice but to take it we would go air to air and he would beat me and i get rested but then here comes the EX grab and now im eating damage

KOF XIII match 3 part 5 ??? vs Bigvador

heres the match im glad he dropped me

just wanna here some thoughts from people who have experience with vice

[Saitsuofleaves]

You should be glad he dropped you, that HD combo should've killed you.

But yeah, it's the final round, Vice has full HD and 4 meters, you better make sure that if you're even gonna leave the ground that Vice has no way to touch you. 

[bigvador]

the HD set up is unbelievable its all that EX grab i tell ya

[t3h mAsTarOth...!]

your Ralf needs more work... you can pressure way better with him... against Vice, you don't need to leave the ground... if you wanna air-air her, use j.B... or neutral jump C+D... just control space with qcb+A/C... far s.C... cr.C... far s.D... once you control space better than her, go in and pressure with high/low/throw mix-ups... be careful though... she's a grappler and got every tool needed to counter anything Ralf has...

play very patient... no need to rush in and eat random hits to big ass combos... all her "get in" AND "countering" options are unsafe... if you see her doing retarded Slpashes like she's doing, just read it, neutral hop it and punish with a full combo... she even yells the whole time she's doing it... read for her EX shoulder... block and punish... whoever is more patient in this match-up will win...

[bigvador]

your Ralf needs more work... you can pressure way better with him... against Vice, you don't need to leave the ground... if you wanna air-air her, use j.B... or neutral jump C+D... just control space with qcb+A/C... far s.C... cr.C... far s.D... once you control space better than her, go in and pressure with high/low/throw mix-ups... be careful though... she's a grappler and got every tool needed to counter anything Ralf has...

play very patient... no need to rush in and eat random hits to big ass combos... all her "get in" AND "countering" options are unsafe... if you see her doing retarded Slpashes like she's doing, just read it, neutral hop it and punish with a full combo... she even yells the whole time she's doing it... read for her EX shoulder... block and punish... whoever is more patient in this match-up will win...

uhhh no disrespect but i didnt come on the VICE thread to talk about how my ralf played if u wanna talk about my ralf then go 2 his thread (or training area) and you'll see my post

I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning

[SAB-CA]

Well, you asked "Is Vice's tool overpowered?"... and since the answer is pretty much "No", the answer ends up being "here's how you work around it!" which just happens to involve, in this case, your style of Ralf play. It would be best to be continued in his own thread, though.

Back to Vice, her EX Decide uses meter, adds hit scaling (even though it does no damage itself), and has a slightly tricky timing window. The possible follow-ups are also kinda limited (compared to, say, how Takuma's Kyokugen Houken (Or Hougeki, as it's called on Atlus' site) can allow you to land a hop attack after landing his "hitstun grapple".

It gives her an easy way to land HD combos (kinda), sure, but she also has some of the weaker HD combos around, to the point where they're getting a potential BUFF on console release (allowing her to use the stronger variety of her "Mayhem" tackle in her HD loop, to allow for greater damage). So, in the grand scheme of things, Vice using HD to kill an opponent, if she / the opponent is not the last, is doing less damage than if anyone else on her team did it. That's pretty faiir.

I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning

As a person who wanted to live with fighters this way too... I warn you, it's a bad idea. I went through years nof NOT knowing things, due to not seeking out certain details and tactics... and all it lead to, was me looking back over years of play, wishing I knew to get certain things down BACK THEN, rather than learning them in a clump once I fight stronger opponents.

For example, the GGPO 98 Players really showed me how powerful MAX mode is in that game. I never cared for it back in ACTUAL 1998 time playing, so most of my GGPO matches were spent feeling like a heavyweight fighter in the middle of a gymnastics competetion; They ran circles around me, and I couldn't do much of anything to compete.

It's fun to learn on your own... but it's more fun to practice your character, and know that you can employ everything about them, rather than work off a self-gimped list of techniques.

[bigvador]

Well, you asked "Is Vice's tool overpowered?"... and since the answer is pretty much "No", the answer ends up being "here's how you work around it!" which just happens to involve, in this case, your style of Ralf play. It would be best to be continued in his own thread, though.

Back to Vice, her EX Decide uses meter, adds hit scaling (even though it does no damage itself), and has a slightly tricky timing window. The possible follow-ups are also kinda limited (compared to, say, how Takuma's Kyokugen Houken (Or Hougeki, as it's called on Atlus' site) can allow you to land a hop attack after landing his "hitstun grapple".

It gives her an easy way to land HD combos (kinda), sure, but she also has some of the weaker HD combos around, to the point where they're getting a potential BUFF on console release (allowing her to use the stronger variety of her "Mayhem" tackle in her HD loop, to allow for greater damage). So, in the grand scheme of things, Vice using HD to kill an opponent, if she / the opponent is not the last, is doing less damage than if anyone else on her team did it. That's pretty faiir.

I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning

As a person who wanted to live with fighters this way too... I warn you, it's a bad idea. I went through years nof NOT knowing things, due to not seeking out certain details and tactics... and all it lead to, was me looking back over years of play, wishing I knew to get certain things down BACK THEN, rather than learning them in a clump once I fight stronger opponents.

For example, the GGPO 98 Players really showed me how powerful MAX mode is in that game. I never cared for it back in ACTUAL 1998 time playing, so most of my GGPO matches were spent feeling like a heavyweight fighter in the middle of a gymnastics competetion; They ran circles around me, and I couldn't do much of anything to compete.

It's fun to learn on your own... but it's more fun to practice your character, and know that you can employ everything about them, rather than work off a self-gimped list of techniques.

dont get me wrong i understand what ur sayin and thats all fine and dandy but for me im able to look back at my earlyer matches in KOF and im able to see how much i have progressed and im able to see how to do things on my own weather im in training mode or fighting somebody.

its 1 thing to give me tips on how to go around that move and its another on how to play the character as well as him telling me i need more work on my ralf (which i know its true but i havnt been playin KOF for long)

so like i said before no disrespect to mAsTarOth

[davidkong07]

lol vice's ex decide is not a problem at all. it's probably one of vice's most useful tools, but it's not unfair at all by any means. you just need to lvl up bro. remember that meter management is a two way street, involving both yourself and your opponent. btw, where was this footage shot at? where are you guys located?

[marchefelix]

No one has answered this for me:

I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?

But since you haven't, I would also like to know if she grabs people who are doing moves like Power Geyser or Grand Rafale or other moves that put something in front of you.

[SAB-CA]

No one has answered this for me:

I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?

But since you haven't, I would also like to know if she grabs people who are doing moves like Power Geyser or Grand Rafale or other moves that put something in front of you.

Best Guesses: Power Geyser probably has some startup invincibility, so Terry wins there. Same with Shining Crystal Bit. Generally, I think it'd be the same kinda thing that would happen to Billy's Cane, or Duo's outstretched limbs, she'd take the full damage, from an awkwardly far away position.

[davidkong07]

i haven't tested what happens with shining crystal bit specifically, but i can say that anytime decide trades with anything, vice takes the damage and gets knocked back, while the other person gets pulled into the air but can't be grabbed or followed up like usual. in essence, it's a bad trade for vice every time.