Variable Block Stun Induced Grab Invincibility, Tiers and Implications

[davidkong07]

i don't believe you can ever truly "punish" with a normal throw, since in this game you can always tech normal throws even if you are grabbed during the recovery of a move.

[Killey]

i don't believe you can ever truly "punish" with a normal throw, since in this game you can always tech normal throws even if you are grabbed during the recovery of a move.

Yes, this is true but technically I should be able to always force a grab on Kyo with his QCF+K move if normal throws are 1f.

[Reiki.Kito]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MWLG0LG6

This is a link to the first portion of the article about throwing. I'd like to thank my buddy, Anues, for doing a full translation so it's easy to understand. Mind you, English isn't his first language so it might not be 100% grammar. However, he did his best and I understand it. So can you. Confirms everything that was posted except that if you keep blocking, your frames of invulnerability are longer. So it gets shorter if you try to move right after you block.

Also note, this is part one of it. Hopefully Anues will help me with doing translations of the Master Class videos too!

[Mazinkaiser]

Impressive Reiki thanks a lot! about the master class, yes there is a question bothering me... at the begin the table they shown what is it? a complete frame data? a translation would be awesome of the used common term.

[Reiki.Kito]

I actually don't know. Once Anues and I talk again, I'll ask him. It would be nice to use some of the information that Dune and other players from around the world are talking about.

[Ash]

i don't believe you can ever truly "punish" with a normal throw, since in this game you can always tech normal throws even if you are grabbed during the recovery of a move.

Yes, this is true but technically I should be able to always force a grab on Kyo with his QCF+K move if normal throws are 1f.

Yes it's common in Socal to use normal throws to punish like against Kyo's qcf+D, but as someone said before, it's still techable.

[Reiki.Kito]

[1]
***About the invicible time against throwing***

This title,invicible time against throwing exists right after recovery or block.
So when you break their guard with throwing,you need to be know about it.

When an opponent stays in block motion after freezing time after blocking your attack,invicible time expands.
So I wrote two type of inviciblity times.
[mini]...Minimum invicible time that opponent can be invicible against throwing while moving right after block.
[maximum]...maximum invicible time while opponents keep block motion after blocking your attack.

[group A]...invicible time after blocked jumping low attack.but in case of Mature,Raiden,Ryou,Yuri,Maxima,their ground low attack is same as them.
[group B]...invicible time after blocked ground low attack.

and,a few time thought,you can expand invicible time with switching standing block and crouching block.


| Status | invicible time |

Getting up after down - 11F
recovering from getting attacked in air - 6F
Ukemi(passive motion?) - 0F


|             |Low Attack|         |Hi Atk |
|             |Group A|Group B|       |
| character |min|max|min|max|min|max|
-------------------------------------
| Ash       |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Elisabeth |5  |8  |9  |9  |7  |8  |
| Duo Lon   |9  |9  |9  |9  |9  |9  |
| Shen      |5  |11 |9  |11 |7  |11 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Kyo       |5  |16 |9  |16 |7  |16 |
| Benimaru  |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
| Daimon    |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Iori      |5  |15 |9  |15 |7  |15 |
| Mature    |5  |8  |9  |9  |7  |7  |
| Vice      |5  |7  |9  |9  |7  |8  |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Terry     |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
| Andy      |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
| Joe       |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Kim       |5  |10 |9  |10 |7  |10 |
| Hwa       |5  |13 |9  |13 |7  |13 |
| Raiden    |5  |10 |9  |10 |7  |10 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Athena    |5  |16 |9  |16 |7  |16 |
| Kensou    |5  |13 |9  |13 |7  |13 |
| Chin      |5  |13 |9  |13 |7  |13 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Ryou      |5  |10 |9  |10 |7  |10 |
| Robert    |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |
| Takuma    |5  |11 |9  |11 |7  |10 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Ralf      |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |
| Clerk     |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |
| Leona     |5  |13 |9  |13 |7  |13 |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| Mai       |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
| Yuri      |5  |5  |9  |9  |7  |7  |
| King      |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |
|           |   |   |   |   |   |   |
| K'        |5  |12 |9  |12 |7  |12 |
| Kula      |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |
| Maxima    |5  |9  |9  |9  |7  |9  |

So, since Megaupload is down, this is the translation of the Arcadia mook. So there are six values. Explained above are Group A, Group B for light attacks. The last two are heavy. Hope this helps!

[Tikok]

Does anyone know if NESTS Kyo has the same throw invincibility period as XIII Kyo ?

[Sharnt]

i don't believe you can ever truly "punish" with a normal throw, since in this game you can always tech normal throws even if you are grabbed during the recovery of a move.

Yes, this is true but technically I should be able to always force a grab on Kyo with his QCF+K move if normal throws are 1f.

Yes it's common in Socal to use normal throws to punish like against Kyo's qcf+D, but as someone said before, it's still techable.

But it puts the Kyo in a highly defavorable mindgame.
Because if he techthrows and you do a s.C he will be hit.
If he blocks you can throw him, if he does an invincible move you can throw or block.

Btw a fast s.C or special move will punish it for sure, but time the s.C is 1 frame timing ...

[mechanica]

I suspect that the reason things work midscreen and not the corner is less pushblock in the corner meaning Vice connects with her grab sooner than if you were midscreen.