KOF XIII 7th General Thread: Evo 2012 countdown edition

[marchefelix]

http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/game/android/kof-android/

KOF-i for the Android?

[Proto Cloud]

This is very true.  I certainly went about it the wrong way when trying to convince MK9 players to try KOF.  I lost a lot of respect for MK9 as a game and it sort of bled into my respect of its players.  I disparaged their love while trying to sell them KOF and I think it made them resentful (duh!).  I got a few of them to buy the game but they never play it.  Oh well, live and learn.

Listened to the Orochinagi podcast with Juicebox and The Answer, really good stuff in there.  They echo my feeling that fighting games (and all games in general) are being dumbed down to appeal to the broadest possible audience.  I saw this happen to FPS games and now it's happening to fighting games.  It's cool that the genre is getting more attention, but I hope it doesn't set a precedent or influence SNKP to make Baby's First KOF.  Like they said in the cast, there's a mental reward aspect to KOF that some other fighting games don't always reach, or rather they plateau much sooner, if that makes any sense.  I don't want that aspect of KOF to change any time soon.

Like I said in another thread, the real chance for fighters to succeed with both casual and experienced players is to shift to games that are both easy to get into but hard to master. I know people will resent me for saying this, but Melee was basically a poster child for this. Whether intentional or not, it was a game anyone could pick up, but not everyone could grasp the entirety of its mechanics.

I think from here on out the importance should be placed on the following for fighters:
- Smoother control schemes (Something like KOFXI is a great example of how a game with better control made for a greater experience)
- In-depth tutorials (Besides Blazblue, I have yet to see another fighter break down their game piece by piece and teach the player some good Bnbs and early strategies to get you started the moment you go out the door)
- Story mode/Campaign (As much as some people don't care about this, myself included, it brings attention to the game and adds value to a game that otherwise doesn't look like it from a casual point of view. I would even go as far as integrating the tutorial with the campaign much like how RTS and shooters do for their games. Use it to get people used to the concepts in digestible amounts while enjoying the story.)
- Better online (This goes without saying. The only games I've seen that have shown any excellence this generation have been VF5, BB and SCV. That's not a good look at all. This should be a big deal because this is the biggest component for those without local competition, without it, most are stuck on the SP content and will trade it in)

That's my 2 cents.

[Xxenace]

This is very true.  I certainly went about it the wrong way when trying to convince MK9 players to try KOF.  I lost a lot of respect for MK9 as a game and it sort of bled into my respect of its players.  I disparaged their love while trying to sell them KOF and I think it made them resentful (duh!).  I got a few of them to buy the game but they never play it.  Oh well, live and learn.

Listened to the Orochinagi podcast with Juicebox and The Answer, really good stuff in there.  They echo my feeling that fighting games (and all games in general) are being dumbed down to appeal to the broadest possible audience.  I saw this happen to FPS games and now it's happening to fighting games.  It's cool that the genre is getting more attention, but I hope it doesn't set a precedent or influence SNKP to make Baby's First KOF.  Like they said in the cast, there's a mental reward aspect to KOF that some other fighting games don't always reach, or rather they plateau much sooner, if that makes any sense.  I don't want that aspect of KOF to change any time soon.

Like I said in another thread, the real chance for fighters to succeed with both casual and experienced players is to shift to games that are both easy to get into but hard to master. I know people will resent me for saying this, but Melee was basically a poster child for this. Whether intentional or not, it was a game anyone could pick up, but not everyone could grasp the entirety of its mechanics.

I think from here on out the importance should be placed on the following for fighters:
- Smoother control schemes (Something like KOFXI is a great example of how a game with better control made for a greater experience)
- In-depth tutorials (Besides Blazblue, I have yet to see another fighter break down their game piece by piece and teach the player some good Bnbs and early strategies to get you started the moment you go out the door)
- Story mode/Campaign (As much as some people don't care about this, myself included, it brings attention to the game and adds value to a game that otherwise doesn't look like it from a casual point of view. I would even go as far as integrating the tutorial with the campaign much like how RTS and shooters do for their games. Use it to get people used to the concepts in digestible amounts while enjoying the story.)
- Better online (This goes without saying. The only games I've seen that have shown any excellence this generation have been VF5, BB and SCV. That's not a good look at all. This should be a big deal because this is the biggest component for those without local competition, without it, most are stuck on the SP content and will trade it in)

That's my 2 cents.

i agree with you

edit:well not about the part as using story mode as a tutorial

[fujifujifujifuji]

teach the player some good Bnbs

I kind of disagree with this one, tutorials are necessary...but showing us basic bnb? isn't that something we're supposed to figure out on our own?

That's no fun, with tutorials players are constricted to play on what is viewed as the "official" way to play the game. Why can't we not mock gamers' intelligence? they're old enough to figure it out on their own...and half the fun in a fighting game is figuring stuff out! remember how flabbergasted we were when people pop out a completely unknown combo? well, that can rarely happen now.

You may argue that new players don't like getting their asses kicked. Well...the whole point of the game is ass-kicking. Of the two people playing, ONE of them will be the loser, by now we should be accepting this fact.

[Tyrant292]

Come on, where were the good days where you go to the arcades and learn the game the hard way.


People these days just want it to be easy, they just want to be spoon-fed. Making a game easy to pick will make people play the game but most people will leave it and wont continue, whats the point in that; the only good thing I could think it will bring is more sales for the company and probably they will buy the DLC's just to get the full game. The people who will stick with game and play it, they are the people who are dedicated, people who will play the game no matter how hard it is because they love the competition, they love the challenge and because of that they love the game. Quality is better than quantity in the end.


I agree with better story mode, a smoother game and better online (THE MOST IMPORTANT THING NOW).

[solidshark]

^Fully agree, though it's honest a countdown now to who'll make a online practice mode for their game (my money's on Sega, Namco, or SNK).

teach the player some good Bnbs

I kind of disagree with this one, tutorials are necessary...but showing us basic bnb? isn't that something we're supposed to figure out on our own?

That's no fun, with tutorials players are constricted to play on what is viewed as the "official" way to play the game. Why can't we not mock gamers' intelligence? they're old enough to figure it out on their own...and half the fun in a fighting game is figuring stuff out! remember how flabbergasted we were when people pop out a completely unknown combo? well, that can rarely happen now.

I lean toward there should be at least some Bnbs in a tutorial. In a lot of fighters I found other BnBs based on known ones, even with XIII. The I don't always favor an official way either, but hints are mostly welcome.

You may argue that new players don't like getting their asses kicked. Well...the whole point of the game is ass-kicking. Of the two people playing, ONE of them will be the loser, by now we should be accepting this fact.

I sort of want to counter this quote, but I like it too much.

[LouisCipher]

Yeah, all tutorials need to cover BnB's or the scrubs just won't learn. I'm convinced that because there were Stun Gun trials in 3SOE that that was the reason why scrubs picked Stun Gun SA for Alex. Keep in mind that it's a known fact that Stun Gun is the absolute worst super in 3S. It's all but unanimous.

[solidshark]

Yeah, all tutorials need to cover BnB's or the scrubs just won't learn. I'm convinced that because there were Stun Gun trials in 3SOE that that was the reason why scrubs picked Stun Gun SA for Alex. Keep in mind that it's a known fact that Stun Gun is the absolute worst super in 3S. It's all but unanimous.

Makes me proud that I'd used it often enough, but then again I really wanted a challenge with using Alex at one point.

http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/game/android/kof-android/

KOF-i for the Android?

That's my question too.

[Proto Cloud]

I kind of disagree with this one, tutorials are necessary...but showing us basic bnb? isn't that something we're supposed to figure out on our own?

That's no fun, with tutorials players are constricted to play on what is viewed as the "official" way to play the game. Why can't we not mock gamers' intelligence? they're old enough to figure it out on their own...and half the fun in a fighting game is figuring stuff out! remember how flabbergasted we were when people pop out a completely unknown combo? well, that can rarely happen now.

You may argue that new players don't like getting their asses kicked. Well...the whole point of the game is ass-kicking. Of the two people playing, ONE of them will be the loser, by now we should be accepting this fact.

That's the kind of elitist attitude that will keep fighting games niche. I've said it once and I'll say it again. It didn't work before and everyone was left to fend for themselves, not knowing how to play the game properly made them dis it and not appreciate the game in its greatest form.

I say this from experience because if it weren't for the fact that Tekken gave me some basics to start up, I wouldn't have appreciated the game at all. I just think they can go further.

Gone are the days where people would have to figure everything out by griding mass hours by themselves or having known someone that has experience. Honestly, I don't have the time to be putting endless hours into practice mode, I shamelessly look up tutorials online or watch match videos to get inspiration like many other players. So what's the difference in the fact that the game teaches you instead of youtube? Not everyone likes watching videos of gameplay, they'd rather just play the game outright.

You know, by all means if you don't like having a tutorial, then don't use it. No one's forcing you to use it and tutorials only teach you day 1 basics. It's a great way to teach someone how to play a game with depth without having to make the game retard easy by a result. Besides, a good game has infinite discovery for combos, mixups, frame traps and etc.

I, for one, am sick of elitism and want to see fighting games be just as big as StarCraft, Halo, CoD or that pile of dogshit called League of Legends.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Referring to someone talking about the most seen characters online, for the love of god did everyone suddenly pick up Kim when I wasn't looking?

The last two days every person I've faced has used him.

[Xxenace]

for anyone wondering about KoF: A, yes it pretty much is KoF for the android

[solidshark]

Referring to someone talking about the most seen characters online, for the love of god did everyone suddenly pick up Kim when I wasn't looking?

The last two days every person I've faced has used him.

Hey, Kim's that good. I am surprised you've faced nothing but him recently, but he's got a lot of tools I can't find in other characters for pressure and simple BnBs, and it all looks fancy, so....

[Saitsuofleaves]

I know he's good, but Kim was damn near off the map for the last couple of months, barely anyone played him.  Now it feels like EVERYONE is playing him.

[solidshark]

I know he's good, but Kim was damn near off the map for the last couple of months, barely anyone played him.  Now it feels like EVERYONE is playing him.

Maybe people have seen Kim players dominating on some streams. It happens. Are the people who are using him competent with Kim at all to you?

[Saitsuofleaves]

I must've missed some key streams then because I don't remember any particular Kim domination that would cause such a migration.

And...well, half of them.  The other half...no comment.