KOF XIII 7th General Thread: Evo 2012 countdown edition

[Saitsuofleaves]

But we still need something blue.

Someone call up SNKP and add something to the story about someone with Blue Flames.  No, Beni's Blue Lightning isn't going to cut it.

[LouisCipher]

But we still need something blue.

Nightcrawler color edit of Kensou?

[Saitsuofleaves]

But we still need something blue.

Nightcrawler color edit of Kensou?

>_>...I'll consider it.  I already have Neku Sakuraba though for his blue alt.  Maybe I'll just get rid of his Fei alt.

[solidshark]

The use of EX in KOF is one of the best borrowed elements yet. It is a big part of what makes this game very fun to play, but honestly I hope they don't keep it forever. It makes 13 excellent, but I appreciate the series as a whole more for trying and perfecting new things added. If 14 is the dream match we're all expecting, hope they can manage EX/DriveCanceling + Tag abilities, or at least give us the option of one or the other, like XI console version did.

I just wonder after team, striker and tag implementation, what's next?

[Saitsuofleaves]

Back to basics I would assume.  There's not much more you can really do with the system as it is it seems.

[Running Wild]

Sigh, I dunno what to do anymore. Capcom has a fucking monopoly in my fighting community. There's only 1 or 2 guys with any interest in KOF, but they are always playing/watching Capcom fighters while I'm playing by myself. Any other new fighting game gets dropped real quick.

It's like there is almost no point for me to play. I got 1 potential tournament at the end of the month, but it's on the same weekend as MLG's event, I doubt it'll get a decent turn out. I can't get better at all in KOFXIII with the way things are so long it's on on console. At least on GGPO/Supercade, I can get good competition in games like Real Bout 2, Garou, or any of the older KOF's, but I want to play able to play a shiny new generation fighter.

I refuse to go back to playing SF4 and it's Mugen Spin-Off, nor am I going anywhere near Marvel.

[Proto Cloud]

You need to lay off the Marvel hate. It's really good once you get a good team. I'm loving Ghostrider/Hawkeye/Doom so hard right now.

As a 3rd Strike player I'm a little biased when I say that I love the EX's in 13 and think they perfectly suite the game. It gives a lot of characters better options whereas if they had no EX's they would be a helluva lot worse for characters like Terry or Leona for example. Plus the fact that EX's take an entire bar whereas in 3S they take only about 30% of the bar (depends on the size of the bar) and leave you plenty of meter to do more shit.

It's kinda' pointless to complain about EX's at this point imho. I hope SNKP keeps them personally. Not to be a dick-rider but I like the idea of bringing back the mode selection from 98 and UM. Be a perfect wedding of something old, something new, and something borrowed. Haha.

My thing is that it's a rather lazy way to balance the game. Sure it gives you more options, but I'm pretty they put it in so they could ease back on the moves they could hand to characters. Also EXes don't work out for everyone, because while you mentioned that it makes Terry and Leona viable, they need it as a crutch instead of having their standard specials good to begin with. Not to mention some characters need it to execute simple Bnbs.  I ain't saying it's bad, per se, and it worked fantastically to their benefit, but I'd rather see a back to basics or them etching their own path. It feels more like 3S than KOF. Not that that's a bad thing at all.

Of course this is coming from a guy that thinks ST is the best SF and FFS is the best FF game.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well the way I see it is, you have two options...

1: Move

2: Destroy every Capcom FG within a 10 mile radius, and force people to play XIII whether they like it or not.

EDIT: And damn it Proto, this is why my posts are always so close to yours...you keep posting right as I'm doing mine.  Anyway, yeah, it's obvious EX's are put there so they don't have to make as many moves and thus as many sprites, but I think that's not a bad thing really.  Makes balancing more tightly focused on less moves rather than just throwing in more moves and adjusting through that, thus probably having even more worthless moves.  There's very few people in this game I would say that have a worthless Special.

As for having a new game go back to basics, which wouldn't surprise me, honestly I think it's pointless.  If you do, it will immediately get compared to 98, and I guarantee no matter the quality, people will still proclaim 98 to be superior and will gripe on the new one.  Better to blaze a new path honestly.

[LouisCipher]

Sigh, I dunno what to do anymore. Capcom has a fucking monopoly in my fighting community. There's only 1 or 2 guys with any interest in KOF, but they are always playing/watching Capcom fighters while I'm playing by myself. Any other new fighting game gets dropped real quick.

It's like there is almost no point for me to play. I got 1 potential tournament at the end of the month, but it's on the same weekend as MLG's event, I doubt it'll get a decent turn out. I can't get better at all in KOFXIII with the way things are so long it's on on console. At least on GGPO/Supercade, I can get good competition in games like Real Bout 2, Garou, or any of the older KOF's, but I want to play able to play a shiny new generation fighter.

I refuse to go back to playing SF4 and it's Mugen Spin-Off, nor am I going anywhere near Marvel.

Try KamKaphan and I know Eltro is on PSN, the online is pretty good with them and you can learn a lot despite the difficulty of blocking short hops/crossups online. I gotta' get out to Rochester soon and Powerbomb some dudes.

[Proto Cloud]

As for having a new game go back to basics, which wouldn't surprise me, honestly I think it's pointless.  If you do, it will immediately get compared to 98, and I guarantee no matter the quality, people will still proclaim 98 to be superior and will gripe on the new one.  Better to blaze a new path honestly.

It will inevitably get compared to 98, but honestly it's only good one of its kind. 94-97 haven't aged well at all. It shouldn't get that much of a complaint, unless people count 98UM and FE into that mess too.

[LouisCipher]

My thing is that it's a rather lazy way to balance the game. Sure it gives you more options, but I'm pretty they put it in so they could ease back on the moves they could hand to characters. Also EXes don't work out for everyone, because while you mentioned that it makes Terry and Leona viable, they need it as a crutch instead of having their standard specials good to begin with. Not to mention some characters need it to execute simple Bnbs.  I ain't saying it's bad, per se, and it worked fantastically to their benefit, but I'd rather see a back to basics or them etching their own path. It feels more like 3S than KOF. Not that that's a bad thing at all.

Of course this is coming from a guy that thinks ST is the best SF and FFS is the best FF game.

I would totally and completely disagree with you . It's a two-way street. You either make every special amazingly fucking good for every character so they don't have to use EX to overcome difficulties, in which case you get broken Hokuto No Ken shit. It's inevitable. Or you have certain characters with amazing specials and others that just lack that shit, which leads to inbalance on par with Chun li in 3S or Old Sagat in ST.

EX's are a happy middle and I think you make up the minority who don't like them. I can understand, but at some point you have to embrace change. So long as it isn't retarded like X-factor or Ultras or easy reversals and etcetera.

PS: No troll but I really fucking hate ST and don't see the appeal of it. I think of it as a game that has aged terribly and personally, I'd play Karnov over it any day of the week.

Edit: Ninja.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Well people still shit on 98UM...and FE is just an enigma.

My worry is that, say they do go back to basics...and it just isn't as good as 98?  Then what?  It could still be great, but not on 98's level.  Then there'd be no reason to play it with 98 on GGPO.  The thing saving XIII from more persecution of comparison to 2k2UM is that...well, only OG 2k2 is on GGPO, and that causes problems.

EDIT:  And damn it, people stop ninja'ing me.

[LouisCipher]

The only advantage 02UM has over 13 is that it has more characters. If all it takes are more characters to get people interested than fuck 'em. Reminds me of people getting hype over MVC2 just because of 58 characters.

I will be honest about one thing; I do wish 13 had a few more diverse characters. Too many shoto's for my taste. That's just me though, a lot of people online are digging Kyo, Athena, Robert teams.

My hypothesis (this is assuming SNKP are smart and not willing to do something obscenely stupid): We won't get a 14 until around 2014-15 or so. Most likely going to be based on XI's mechanics and add another dozen characters to the roster. Before that; expect more casual and hentai games and -god willing- Garou 2.

[Proto Cloud]

I would totally and completely disagree with you . It's a two-way street. You either make every special amazingly fucking good for every character so they don't have to use EX to overcome difficulties, in which case you get broken Hokuto No Ken shit. It's inevitable. Or you have certain characters with amazing specials and others that just lack that shit, which leads to inbalance on par with Chun li in 3S or Old Sagat in ST.

EX's are a happy middle and I think you make up the minority who don't like them. I can understand, but at some point you have to embrace change. So long as it isn't retarded like X-factor or Ultras or easy reversals and etcetera.

PS: No troll but I really fucking hate ST and don't see the appeal of it. I think of it as a game that has aged terribly and personally, I'd play Karnov over it any day of the week.

Honestly, if you don't like ST and haven't played FFS competitively you really wouldn't understand where I'm coming from. Not to mention your comparisons aren't good. Chun comes from a game that has EXes and her strengths come from her normals, not her specials. And yes, Old Sagat is stupid, but everything in the game is stupid. A low tier character like Fei-Long can kill anyone in two combos and T. Hawk has a devastating grab loop.

What you're basically doing is comparing it to other fighters and I think we can all agree that KOFXIII is better and more solid than every modern fighter out there, with the exception of VFFS. You're preaching to the choir and it's a cheap shot to modern fighters.

And please don't start making examples like Karnov, you're not exactly making a good point with it when it's plenty worse than ST. Also, nothing can be like HnK, except HnK.

[fujifujifujifuji]

I've always been wondering why HD is considered a comeback mechanic.
- You don't have to be on the losing side to use it, it's available to both players regardless of health.
- Characters don't get stronger or faster during HD mode and meters start equally empty at round 1.

But here's some of the points that I THINK why people call them comeback mechanic.
1- It can be used to utterly decimate an opponent superior in health with just a hit-confirm. Yes, but then you don't have to be losing to use this. Even though for obvious reasons you don't throw HD when fighting enemies with low health, it is counterproductive, but that doesn't mean you can't.
2- It can be used by anyone who mastered specific inputs and loops to defeat an arguably more skilled opponent. This is perhaps the clinching point, since I've heard people said that some noobs with average knowledge in HD can beat a superior player who knew spacing, footsies, using normals and stuff. Well, I hope nobody take this the wrong way but playing KOF XIII without HD is like playing MVC without the assist or KOF XI without the shift system (or any 3D fighting games without side-stepping or non fg example, playing an FPS without jumping). It's an integral feature that is vital but not necessary in playing the game, nevertheless it is rewarding if one can utilize it. But really, being humans...I believe some if not all of these notions that HD is a comeback feature stemmed from getting one's ass kicked with HD while thinking one is going to win. And one is angry because one does not know/didn't bother brushing up on HD. It is unfair to the game, does it not say that one deserved to win because he used something that although available to you as well, you neglect to use?

In my opinion it is not a comeback mechanic, a comeback mechanic would be something that is only available to the losing side specifically to make a "comeback". HD is more like "damage dealing mechanic" pretty much like supers, since you have to work to fill the bar, and you use it to deal damage and it gives both players equal advantages. After all, won't blowing out EX DM to enemy with high health better that blowing it on low health enemy? then EX DM is a comeback mechanic! or any other DMs for that matter.