Dune's perspective on KOFXIII

[Delta]

Yes, it's sad to read that. I hope SNKP makes good advertisiments and fixes all the bugs.
Sadly i doubt they will make a good job at promoting the game

[Kane317]

*never mind me moaning, but I still stand by my point*

*delete*

You shouldn't have deleted your points, this is a discussion board (as long as we don't get wildly off topic or personal insults, this is what it's for).

[Aion]

so you dont trust who is basically the head of the kof community in japan because of

1. the characters he uses (that YOU see)

im sure he knows a hell of a lot more about snk than you, considering he actually yknow, IS JAPANESE AND LIVES IN JAPAN lol

you also have no idea what its like to be in a competitive environment at a level where you are forced to pick top tiers or lose. or maybe you are and just dont realize it...how high do you place in big tournaments for any game?

and the stuff about liking the characters is just lol....haha. well anyway thanks for your post it was really funny

How about you actually explain why you agree with him instead of mocking me? Because it seems to be you didn't understand what I said nor even try to see my point, when you very well may understand, and if so I'd like to hear and be shown what's what.

All you've done is simplify my post, removed the context, explanations etc, in an attempt to make it seem like what I've said is silly; and made it look like you'd follow Dune unconditionally due to 'who he is'. Do you really agree with him anyway? If so, why?


Now:

1) Who said I don't trust him? I said I don't agree with him in this case, and that who he is has little bearing on the CONTEXT of what he is currently talking about. If he was talking about gameplay tactics/strategies, Japanese players and their skill levels etc, then he has a bearing.

However, he is moaning about things he contributes to...


2) You say he's the head of the Japanese scene...then why is it that he's only promoting the same characters everyone else picks? He says it's difficult not to be pessimistic when he has been one of the contributing factors to the bad taste left in everyone's mouths. He puts up video's...of the same darn characters over and over again...do you know how many people are being bored to death? And how many KoF newbies think the game is dead boring? Or how many people think the game has major balance issues?

All the while I tell these guys not to worry, because it's just that all they get to see are the same few characters so it feels that way. And I don't care who Dune uses off screen, because what matters to the promotion of a dying franchise is what is shown on screen...and he's pumping out video's of the same darn thing. I mean, SBO finals sure were great right? But it doesn't matter because it wasn't offscreen I guess =/

Dude complains about Raiden and uses Raiden...and the arguement about 'promoting' Raiden so SNK can realize is moot because everyone uses Raiden and SNK already know lol.

And where was Dune during XII? You know, since he is the head of the scene and all.


3) LOL, I never said I know more about SNK than him! Fanboy rage much? Because that's a typical reply...


4) Really? I have no idea about competitive environments yeah? This is a really bad arguement, because for one, you are assuming things about me. Secondly, you are saying people are forced to pick top tiers while you yourself don't have much knowledge about the other good characters in the game (because hardly anyone uses them). How many a time people ended up beasting with characters which were underused and not considered top tier.


5) You ignored certain other points I made, which were very significant; i.e, SNKP being forced to abandon the great XII engine because of people like Dune; I can't be bothered to re-type what I said about that but you saw it...and chose to ignore it.

Cycle like this:

-KoFXII comes out

-KoF players moan it 'doesn't feel like KoF' (this phrase always made me lol)

-No one decides to play it except some American players and UK players

-SNKP are in a major pickle because of this...game was only unfinished because they actually put effort into the game, yet little to no fans supported them or gave a damn (so if SNKP really don't give a damn about XIII I don't blame them)

-SNKP forced to change almost the entire system, so the stubborn KoF players would actually support them

-XIII comes out and people abuse glitches; infinites; top tiers; rinse the same few characters (even after moaning about XII's small cast); promote the game in the worst way possible; clearly only give a damn about themselves and not KoF

- Said player/s then think they have a right to moan about the game

-SNKP rushed and worked hard to give them what they wanted; yet they threw the game behind their backs when they didn't win SBO

-SNKP rushed to pump out characters they wanted and change the system to their liking; yet they picked few characters, didn't appreciate the effort or that the inconsistencies of the game is due to them forcing SNKP to revamp the whole system AND pump out those high res characters with little time left...


Remember all those loketests SNKP did for the game? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember how they said they'd go bankrupt if they don't sell this game? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember all the promotion they did for the game, and the director standing around during loketests dazed due to lack of sleep? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember how they changed the whole darn system? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember those amazing sprites and backgrounds that cost SNKP an arm and a leg? How can dune say they don't give a damn?

But you would support him wouldn't you, since he is 'Dune' right? You would support him even though the scene may very well die because of his attitude and the similar attitude of others right? =/


6) The AI guys have promoted this game really well. Even if the level is not as high, it's more varied in character choice AND gameplay; and it's much more amusing and fun when you watch their vids. Though of course, because one Japanese guy is salty; pessimism should be spread to try and kill the game...and it's ok, because he's a top player. =/


I'm glad you thought my post was funny, because I saw no composure in yours. Now you know alot more about KoF than I do, and you are alot more respectable...but come on.

@KingQuaka: Yes, the Kings are definitely back!

I don't understand why someone would "bad mouthing" KoF13 if he has an interest to it. Dune or whoever, was he tried to kill the game or what? Not very supportive. Good bye, new players. Good bye, Dune's followers. Good bye, "I"s that follow what the guy said. Good bye, most KoF communities.

Glad I'm not the only one...

[SAB-CA]

Dune's points are interesting, but I can agree with Aion's point that it's annoying to hear people complain about the quality of tools/tactics they themselves use. If there are ANY players I would hope could take an A- (or a B) and make them compete with an S+ tier, it'd be a tourney-level player.

And as they say, there's no honor among thieves... or in this case people who are playing for fame and income. It'd be great if people could just decide "This is too strong to -insert community here-, so lets not use it, for now", but, no, that's not how it is.

I rather like the KCE vids in this case, however. They're pretty high level play, but we've also seen some variety every once in a while. I'd like to think it helps provide balance to the "high tier abuse" scene.

Anywho, I think we all can agree that the ball is in SNKP's court now, right? They seem pretty close to drawing in the tourney players, as long as they move the game in a direction that such players feel is worth spending time with, right? I'm impressed with how close they are, considering the end of Dune's convo is still a "I still like the game!". He just doesn't trust SNKP to continue supporting it, the way it seems.

A majority of the game already seems "decent for a casual player", or even to pull in some of the "young crowd". Damage is high enough off fairly easy tactics (especially with Neomax) that KoF neophytes can possibly compete with those who are all crazy strategic with their meter management. Promotion and content could keep this groundwork going long enough, to where players no longer doubt KoF's next installment, they instead ask for, and look forward to it, to see new stages, real new characters (not just upgraded old ones), etc.

With Capcom and Arc both going the way of Arcade upgrades and Digital Downloads, I think it's pretty likely SNKP will try to follow suit one way or another. Indulging in such things, such as easier ways to upgrade an existing product, might be exactly what XIII needs, in order to sway people more firmly to it's side. I just hope we get some real clues to their future plans soon.

[APARTHEID]

Aion: Your condescending tone betrays you. Though you've now since posted a point-by-point reply to Dandy_J, I still feel that you present yourself with a haughty tone; though your disdain may exclude explicit references, it still exudes implicit opinion.

SAB-CA: It takes a hell of a lot more than "well, the system is super cool" to pull in completely fresh folks.

[JeremyH]

It really seems like this is the sort of debate that having an SBO type format reinforces.  No matter if you're Dune or the casual observer, the obvious issues (EX glitch, Raiden, etc) are going to be even more apparent in this type of tournament.  Once things are hashed out a bit more, I'm sure we'll see a review that is more favorable, assuming those glaring issues are fixed.  If not... well, you can't make them fix it, gg SNK

[SAB-CA]

SAB-CA: It takes a hell of a lot more than "well, the system is super cool" to pull in completely fresh folks.

Surely. I was saying that I believe XIII has a good groundwork laid out, in addition to a flow of combat that should make it rather easy to approach, for a variety of skill levels and players.

As cool as the UMs are for the tourney crowd, they're still games that, to the average user, look like 1990s-era stuff. XIII is the strongest graphical showing they've got, with a low amount of "ugly jaggies!", and a pretty high amount of style and presentation. A good amount of that extra-crowd that BB pulled in, the type interested in the cool anime aesthetic rather than the depth of gameplay, many of them could probably be swayed into buying XIII, with the proper promotions.

In the end, I'm saying that this is a KoF that SNKP could make modestly successful, even without setting the competetive world on fire, if they handle it right. (Of course, I'd prefer it if they could please all sides...)

The main people who had interested in 1998 and 2002 UM games are the hardcore... but a new game, that looks like a decent competition to it's closest competitors, filled with custom colors that look like recognizeable subjects (Look, Fat Venom! Some dude from Avatar!), big fullscreen ending/cinematic pictures, a story mode with text for every battle, and big, dramatic special moves, amidst fightsthat are pretty satisfying to fight in, even when just learning? This could all go somewhere... IF they hendle it properly.

[Shiranui_ninja]

Is this guy the "head" of KOF japanese comunity?? LOL Then KOF japanese comunity needs a new head.

KOF is not dying, this guy is killing it...

[KusoGaki]

Er...are you guys even reading what he said properly ? Most of his opinions are pretty valid.

No offence to Fiol but i have a suspicion the interview hasn't been translated properly, from what i can read it doesn't come off as negative as people are taking it.

Especially since what was translated is not the whole interview it's easy to misinterpret.

[fiol]

Er...are you guys even reading what he said properly ? Most of his opinions are pretty valid.

No offence to Fiol but i have a suspicion the interview hasn't been translated properly, from what i can read it doesn't come off as negative as people are taking it.

Especially since what was translated is not the whole interview it's easy to misinterpret.

mmcafe said the same things as i did.. i might have said that in my opinion the game is dying in japan but still i ve never said that Dune HAS just negative thoughts about 13. The things i translated were the same things that,later on, The Professor cleared up.  About the SNK part..here the chinese version:

A：这样居然还能打完斗剧啊……
D：SNKPLAYMORE拼命把KOF13弄成斗剧项目的，本来是没有的。比赛本身来说我倒觉得还可以接受
A：也就是说，KOF13看起来非常华丽，其实还是有这样那样的问题？
D：看起来其实非常不错。而且，有不少新的要素，我还是非常喜欢它的。
A：在日本说到KOF的话，也是98和02吧。
D：正在逐渐演变成这样。没办法。SNK最近也快变得麻烦了，现在的领导人并不重视KOF（以下根据DUNE本人的要求，省略若干“不满”的发言）。
A：是啊，最近有的作品都是什么手机用的，PSP的飞机什么的……
D：所以，可能KOF13就是KOF系列的完结……当然，这是我个人的观点。目前还没有确定的情报。只不过，现实实在太严峻，很难乐观起来了。

here my translation:

A:unexpectedly, 13 was at SBO
D:SNKP. took a great risk in joying the SBO..at first the were not listed...In my opinion the competion (13) was quite not that bad
A:in other words, KOFXIII looks pretty good, but still have some problems?
D:it seems indeed pretty good/ok.Furthermore,it has some new key elements,as a matter of fact i still like it.
A: as far as KOF is concerned, 98/02 are again the best..
D:at first yes. There is no way out.SNK recently had some problems, now the leader doesnt take seriously KOF (according to Dune request, I omit some "dissatisfied" statement)
A: oh yes, recently is all about mobile phone products,psp,shrumps...
D:so,KOF13 might be the last KOF....but still it's just my own point of view..It's just that the reality,now, is really grim, it's really difficult to be optimistic

i just emphasize a little bit ...

[KusoGaki]

Well that's the thing, when you emphasize it even a little bit people read it the wrong way (as some have been) and get something completely different out of it.

The difference between bulletpointing what someone says and the literal translation can change the meaning completely.

Like i said though, no offence towards you and thanks for the translation.

[fiol]

Well that's the thing, when you emphasize it even a little bit people read it the wrong way (as some have been) and get something completely different out of it.

The difference between bulletpointing what someone says and the literal translation can change the meaning completely.

Like i said though, no offence towards you and thanks for the translation.

well  i actually just emphasize the snk part saying: they dont give a shit..but the right translation ("now the leader doesnt take seriously KOF") still is not that positive xD

[Shiranui_ninja]

Well, I guess is what happens sometimes with translations.
I'm just going to ignore this interview since I don't have chinese knowlead to read it.

[MUSOLINI]

snkp needs to patch that shit up fast, they way too fucking dumb it seems. they ae fucking over the arcade goers imo by waiting this long.

also why the fuck should dune have been promoting 12? it was a shit game, i still own my neo and bad games you just shouldnt buy. i remember i brought back kof 96 in the same week it came out and got ms1 instead, best return ever imo. fuck shit games, and the worst part about it was the game looked fucking fantastic and sounded great (music and shit), it had the fucking boss team. but it was a piled up bag of shit.

[Dandy J]

How about you actually explain why you agree with him instead of mocking me? Because it seems to be you didn't understand what I said nor even try to see my point, when you very well may understand, and if so I'd like to hear and be shown what's what.

All you've done is simplify my post, removed the context, explanations etc, in an attempt to make it seem like what I've said is silly; and made it look like you'd follow Dune unconditionally due to 'who he is'. Do you really agree with him anyway? If so, why?

your post didnt make any more sense with context and explanations. i cant agree or disagree with dune because 1. i havent played the game and 2. i dont live in japan. and neither do you. your impressiion of the game is from videos (unless you are in cali or tx, in which case is your impression of the game the same as their laggy monitors?) and your impression of snk is from what you hear from sources thrice removed at best. so whether you agree or disagree with his opinions, either way youd be forming an opinion based on less knowledge than what he has, which would make expressing a strong a opinion in either direction a pretty silly thing to do.

2) You say he's the head of the Japanese scene...then why is it that he's only promoting the same characters everyone else picks? He says it's difficult not to be pessimistic when he has been one of the contributing factors to the bad taste left in everyone's mouths. He puts up video's...of the same darn characters over and over again...do you know how many people are being bored to death? And how many KoF newbies think the game is dead boring? Or how many people think the game has major balance issues?

lmao its not his place to 'promote' characters. who the fuck does that? what if the cannons told justin wong 'yo, stop using rufus, that dude is boring. polls from scrubs show that they want to see more el fuerte, can you use him instead?' hahahaha wtf. he puts up videos of his crew, which all have their teams, and they tend to be top tier since everyone in that crew are among the best players in japan. plus sbo was coming up, so trying to find some goo shit that may or may not exist with seemingly worse characters is not a good look. and one of his crew won sbo, so uh, yea.

and personally i dont find any of the kce videos boring. if you think they are boring, maybe fighting games arent for you, or maybe you just arent into them as much as you think. when i am interested in a game, im interested in the game, not the characters. sure its nice to see some variety but the game is the game. btw people think the game has major balance issues...because it does. k' isnt on every team for nothing.

All the while I tell these guys not to worry, because it's just that all they get to see are the same few characters so it feels that way. And I don't care who Dune uses off screen, because what matters to the promotion of a dying franchise is what is shown on screen...and he's pumping out video's of the same darn thing. I mean, SBO finals sure were great right? But it doesn't matter because it wasn't offscreen I guess =/

its not his place to advertise the game. he doesnt work for snk. he cant change the game either. what exactly would you want him to do? use low tiers and get raped by one of his boys using k' raiden kyo or w/e? reality is reality.

Dude complains about Raiden and uses Raiden...and the arguement about 'promoting' Raiden so SNK can realize is moot because everyone uses Raiden and SNK already know lol.

dune doesnt use raiden in any videos.

And where was Dune during XII? You know, since he is the head of the scene and all.

not playing it, same as everyone else. why would someone subject themselves to that piece of shit? lol

3) LOL, I never said I know more about SNK than him! Fanboy rage much? Because that's a typical reply...

funny you calling me a fanboy when you are complaining that hes not PROMOTING CHARACTERS lol! sorry i didnt know pointing something out using logic was typical.

4) Really? I have no idea about competitive environments yeah? This is a really bad arguement, because for one, you are assuming things about me. Secondly, you are saying people are forced to pick top tiers while you yourself don't have much knowledge about the other good characters in the game (because hardly anyone uses them). How many a time people ended up beasting with characters which were underused and not considered top tier.

well you didn't disprove it, so im right i guess? and picking top tiers...you realize sbo was coming up? in those times, players usually stick to whats good early on and then play with that stuff a lot so they can get plenty of practice in with what they know.

5) You ignored certain other points I made, which were very significant; i.e, SNKP being forced to abandon the great XII engine because of people like Dune; I can't be bothered to re-type what I said about that but you saw it...and chose to ignore it.

i think 13 is on the same engine...but you probably meant the 13 mechanics. they changed it because the game sucked and no one liked it. same reason you never saw uneven stages and universal wall push in tekken ever again after tekken 4.

Cycle like this:

-KoFXII comes out

-KoF players moan it 'doesn't feel like KoF' (this phrase always made me lol)

-No one decides to play it except some American players and UK players

-SNKP are in a major pickle because of this...game was only unfinished because they actually put effort into the game, yet little to no fans supported them or gave a damn (so if SNKP really don't give a damn about XIII I don't blame them)

-SNKP forced to change almost the entire system, so the stubborn KoF players would actually support them

-XIII comes out and people abuse glitches; infinites; top tiers; rinse the same few characters (even after moaning about XII's small cast); promote the game in the worst way possible; clearly only give a damn about themselves and not KoF

- Said player/s then think they have a right to moan about the game

-SNKP rushed and worked hard to give them what they wanted; yet they threw the game behind their backs when they didn't win SBO

-SNKP rushed to pump out characters they wanted and change the system to their liking; yet they picked few characters, didn't appreciate the effort or that the inconsistencies of the game is due to them forcing SNKP to revamp the whole system AND pump out those high res characters with little time left...

LMAO @ blaming the players for the quality of the game! damn, that is a good one. yes, its the players fault the game has powerful top tier characters and glitches and infinites. they used the power of their mind to control snk and put those things into the game.

Remember all those loketests SNKP did for the game? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember how they said they'd go bankrupt if they don't sell this game? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember all the promotion they did for the game, and the director standing around during loketests dazed due to lack of sleep? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember how they changed the whole darn system? How can Dune say they don't give a damn? Remember those amazing sprites and backgrounds that cost SNKP an arm and a leg? How can dune say they don't give a damn?

idk, youd have to ask him i guess? i dont remember them saying theyd go bankrupt, only that itd be the last kof.

But you would support him wouldn't you, since he is 'Dune' right? You would support him even though the scene may very well die because of his attitude and the similar attitude of others right? =/

well i already addressed that i dont have enough knowledge to agree with him or not. and what scene? the fighting game scene? last i checked it was strong as ever.

6) The AI guys have promoted this game really well. Even if the level is not as high, it's more varied in character choice AND gameplay; and it's much more amusing and fun when you watch their vids. Though of course, because one Japanese guy is salty; pessimism should be spread to try and kill the game...and it's ok, because he's a top player. =/

well good for them. of course you skip over the raiden mirrors and parts about the answer saying that raiden is ruining the game for him. yes, saying a character ruins the game is great promotion. dude, players cant change the fucking game. it is what it is. in the end, people are gonna find out the good shit is good eventually, this aint north korea.

I don't understand why someone would "bad mouthing" KoF13 if he has an interest to it. Dune or whoever, was he tried to kill the game or what? Not very supportive. Good bye, new players. Good bye, Dune's followers. Good bye, "I"s that follow what the guy said. Good bye, most KoF communities.

just keeping it real. do you really want people to like a game with opinions based around complete bullshit?