KOF XIII 8th General Thread: KOF EVOlving 2012

[Running Wild]

Also, lol @ you comparing HD to Genei Jin... it's like you don't know much about either

It's all the same custom combo type crap to me, and I hate custom combo type things in fighting games. I think they are one of the worst features to be in a fighting game.

Next KOF game I hope SNK ditches the HD mode, and nerfs the juggle system. XIII has some of the most nonsense juggles in a KOF game ever. They need to make it more strict like the old games. Then they should buff up everybody with more specials (and an extra super for characters with only 1).

But really, I'd rather see a Garou 2, or maybe a new Real Bout game, or even another Last Blade or Samurai Shodown. SNK has way better games than just KOF.

[LouisCipher]

I don't know about the Genei Jin comparison. It wasn't so much the Genei Jin that made Yun top tier but the tricks he could do to that made it so good.

I don't mind Custom Combos but I understand not liking them. It really sucks when you make 1 mistake and the other guy nails you for 800 health or full life. It's difficult to do (for the most part) but it still sucks if you make one mistake and get rocked like that. I prefer it over Capcom comeback mechanics though.

[Great_Dark_Hero]

Hm... to further elaborate on different game systems, would it be amicable if SNKP were to make a few system in line with...
Perhaps... "Regular" mode (the KOFXIII system in itself), "Advanced" mode (a system more in line with KOF02UM), and "Extra Mode" (... 98 system?)

For the Advanced system you might end with a... slightly increased damage output, a "HD mode" activation that requires users to utilize manual dash, using SUPER stocks for meter instead having an HD meter altogether, lack of EX moves (EX DM's might still be available though), all characters will have access to five super meter stocks... Neo Max would take three meters as usual but two during "HD mode".

For the "Extra Mode" you could have a forward roll... and dodge (pressing back on the control stick). HD mode would have to be activated in itself but the activation takes less time than the regular or advanced ones do. During the HD mode in this scenario you could probably get away with a single EX DM but you can use a doko cancel ONCE rather than the entire duration. Neo Max will cost three bars, two if in HD mode...

None of the said modes will be character exclusive: if the player select one "mode" it will apply to all three characters the player is going to select.
This isn't exactly a perfect example but I'm just throwing ideas out there so that DC will elaborate.

[LouisCipher]

Depends on the game system but I fear that if they bring back Neomaxes and Hyperdrive mode it wouldn't attract the casuals. The casuals would take one look and think it's an expansion pack. A sequel has to be different, with different but similar mechanics. So I'd prefer a 14 more in line with 98 or XI.

[Mr Bakaboy]

Hm... to further elaborate on different game systems, would it be amicable if SNKP were to make a few system in line with...
Perhaps... "Regular" mode (the KOFXIII system in itself), "Advanced" mode (a system more in line with KOF02UM), and "Extra Mode" (... 98 system?)

For the Advanced system you might end with a... slightly increased damage output, a "HD mode" activation that requires users to utilize manual dash, using SUPER stocks for meter instead having an HD meter altogether, lack of EX moves (EX DM's might still be available though), all characters will have access to five super meter stocks... Neo Max would take three meters as usual but two during "HD mode".

For the "Extra Mode" you could have a forward roll... and dodge (pressing back on the control stick). HD mode would have to be activated in itself but the activation takes less time than the regular or advanced ones do. During the HD mode in this scenario you could probably get away with a single EX DM but you can use a doko cancel ONCE rather than the entire duration. Neo Max will cost three bars, two if in HD mode...

None of the said modes will be character exclusive: if the player select one "mode" it will apply to all three characters the player is going to select.
This isn't exactly a perfect example but I'm just throwing ideas out there so that DC will elaborate.

If you leave in HD mode as original the others would be knives brought to a gun fight. There are too many touch of death combos using HD mode to make any other mode stack up remotely well. Like I said the comparison to CVS2. Anybody who could use A Groove well would mop the floor with anyone using anything else. It would be more interesting from a casual standpoint, but people would nag nonstop about it being unfair.

Now if you wanted the 3 modes to basically be XI, 02, & 98 I could easily see that.

[Great_Dark_Hero]

The examples I put out were more in line with KOF98, only attempting to have a few systems at a time and still making HD mode still relevant somehow. However, the last thing we need is TOD combos so maybe HD mode should not be available in all of them. Or just simply one of them.
I, too prefer the CVS2 approach as I still play it very often... Oh...

Maybe the CVS2 approach can be done in this manner:
- The regular system: HD mode, HD combos, and drive meter are available here only.
- A system based on the first two KOF games with the "dodge" function and super Gauges charging
- A system based on KOF98 (96/97) with Stock Gauges
- A system based on Garou: Mark of the Wolves (or perhaps something like K groove)...


But, what about EX Moves? What do you guys think should happen with them?

[Mr Bakaboy]

Ex shouldn't be a problem. If you could wrangle in the HD mode touch of death combos (i.e. reduce the amount of damage taken over the longer combos like Arc System likes to do) it could be viable. Personally if I would work with your system I would work in the following

(KOF XIII style) Nerfed long string combos in HD mode with normals keep supers during combos damage intact but the least of the 3 in total damage potential, keep EX, Keep Rolls, Keep Dream Cancels the same. Make getting bar harder then the rest of the grooves.

(KOF 02UM style) Pretty much the same. Middle of the road on getting bar and power of supers. Put in Armor mode and Counter mode (think that was what red aura mode was called) Do not allow supers in Counter mode or make it where a super stops the mode or make sure that it is balanced REALLY well cause that could get out of hand quickly.

(KOF 98UM style) Allow adjustment to roll or dodge giving dodge more potential for power. Has easiest bar build in advanced mode. EX and Advanced mode get more power stocks when an enemy is defeated like 98UM does.

Personally I would not bring in any more grooves simply cause the more you put it the harder it is to balance. MOTW is not a KOF game technically so personally I would rather see a Fatal Fury game to see that engine resurrected.

[Running Wild]

Put in Armor mode and Counter mode (think that was what red aura mode was called) Do not allow supers in Counter mode or make it where a super stops the mode or make sure that it is balanced REALLY well cause that could get out of hand quickly.

Wasn't the whole point of Counter mode is that it allowed you to use DM's whenever you wanted, on top of an attack power boost?

Armor Mode was nonsense. That should definitely not be brought back.

I think KOF should just stick with the 98UM approach - Choose your Power Gauge, Mobility and Evasive Options. Advance Mode Power Gauge allowed you to use Max Mode to perform a SDM and gave you an attack power boost, while Extra Mode could use Quick Max.

No Drive Gauge, No HD Mode, No EX moves, No Max/Dream Cancels. Just honest to goodness KOF.

I think with the way KOF is right now, it's way too meter dependent, and without meter, combo's do not do much damage, compared to in the older games where damage intake was much higher without having to spend meter.

[Tyrant292]

I think KOF should just stick with the 98UM approach - Choose your Power Gauge, Mobility and Evasive Options. Advance Mode Power Gauge allowed you to use Max Mode to perform a SDM and gave you an attack power boost, while Extra Mode could use Quick Max.

No Drive Gauge, No HD Mode, No EX moves, No Max/Dream Cancels. Just honest to goodness KOF.

I think with the way KOF is right now, it's way too meter dependent, and without meter, combo's do not do much damage, compared to in the older games where damage intake was much higher without having to spend meter.

You have a point here but I like the HD mode because I liked 02um more than 98um even though I prefer the character cast of 98 um over 02um. I think what they need to do is that the neomax should only work while your HP is red like 02um and make it more strict to use in actual games. If HD is used without neomaxes, I think it would be better. Still I like the current system. I would like to see another KoF more than anything else, it's the best franchise SNK has IMO.

[LouisCipher]

No EX moves

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Mr Bakaboy]

Put in Armor mode and Counter mode (think that was what red aura mode was called) Do not allow supers in Counter mode or make it where a super stops the mode or make sure that it is balanced REALLY well cause that could get out of hand quickly.

Wasn't the whole point of Counter mode is that it allowed you to use DM's whenever you wanted, on top of an attack power boost?

Armor Mode was nonsense. That should definitely not be brought back.

I think KOF should just stick with the 98UM approach - Choose your Power Gauge, Mobility and Evasive Options. Advance Mode Power Gauge allowed you to use Max Mode to perform a SDM and gave you an attack power boost, while Extra Mode could use Quick Max.

No Drive Gauge, No HD Mode, No EX moves, No Max/Dream Cancels. Just honest to goodness KOF.

I think with the way KOF is right now, it's way too meter dependent, and without meter, combo's do not do much damage, compared to in the older games where damage intake was much higher without having to spend meter.

I thought counter worked like a poor mans HD mode linking moves easier kinda like a full super gague in SVC was. Armor I used to  play with. You're probably right that it won't be used a ton, but with certain characters it was a pain in the rear if I remember right (guessing Palph would be one). Been so long since my ex roommate and I screwed with it I'm fuzzy on the specfics.

[Running Wild]

From what I remembered, Counter mode basically gave you unlimited DM's for a short duration and a power boost, and if I recall correctly, DM's had no super freeze, they came out instantly. You could also cancel into DM's off specials, but it was practically useless because they would never connect.

2k2's Max Mode, now that's a poor man's HD mode, the cancel rules for moves were more strict, and loops were more uncommon, but it really didn't matter, the goal with Max Mode really was to hit a SDM or Max2 which is where the brunt of the damage came from.

[solidshark]

No Drive Gauge, No HD Mode, No EX moves, No Max/Dream Cancels. Just honest to goodness KOF.

I think with the way KOF is right now, it's way too meter dependent, and without meter, combo's do not do much damage, compared to in the older games where damage intake was much higher without having to spend meter.

The idea of "honest to goodness KOF" is not something I totally agree with; basically it means people just want to play "98". One of the best things about KOF has been it's willingness to experiment with new features. Usually what makes it good or not is the balance it receives in characters and systems, which is why XIII is among the more highly regarded. It would be good to have a mode like 98 advanced, probably the most standard mode in KOF now, as an option instead of the only way to play. And I get away with playing XIII like it's 98 anyway; you work harder, but it does work.

[Running Wild]

I still play XIII like it's 98 too lol.

I don't worry at all about HD combo's, most of my characters I play with have ass HD combo's anyhow without plugging +4 power stocks.

I did prefer KOF when it was a less meter dependent game though. I think that's a problem with alot of fighters now, they want you focused on multiple meters, it's kinda ridiculous almost. That's one of the things I liked about 3D fighters, you got one meter - your life bar and /gg. :D

I did like being able to pick and choose my features in 98UM though, but 98/UM had so many imbalance problems, it was ridiculous sometimes. XIII at least for the most part is a more balanced game, maybe the most balanced KOF to date. I look back at all the old KOF's and all I see are games that although they had some good systems, the character balance was a mess.

[LouisCipher]

I like multiple meters and the way they're done in 13. It just adds to the meta game and gives you tons of ways to play a given character.