New player a bit confused about punishing

[JupiterJazz]

Right now I'm playing against a lot of folks online who seem to be deliberately spamming very unsafe specials right in my face and I'm having a hard time punishing this stuff. I'm mainly having trouble with Kyos and EX Kyos doing the Shiki (double kick) and immediately after doing a DP or EX DP and I can't for the life of me punish the Shiki. I always get hit by the DPs.

I'm looking at EX Kyo frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc#gid=19 and it says that the safest version is -4 on guard. What kinds of moves can punish this in terms of startup frames? Do I need an attack that starts up in 4 frames or less? I'm new and really not sure how the math works.

Also does anyone know where to find what specials have invincibility? They don't seem to be on that frame data spreadsheet unless I totally missed it. Is there any site that has this information?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[CJ]

If they are dead set on doing DP's; just block them.


If they don't do anything, use the back C/D option select, which is a throw/attack.

Throws start up in 1 frame, so if they use it as well, you'll always tech.

[desmond_kof]

Right now I'm playing against a lot of folks online who seem to be deliberately spamming very unsafe specials right in my face and I'm having a hard time punishing this stuff. I'm mainly having trouble with Kyos and EX Kyos doing the Shiki (double kick) and immediately after doing a DP or EX DP and I can't for the life of me punish the Shiki. I always get hit by the DPs.

I'm looking at EX Kyo frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc#gid=19 and it says that the safest version is -4 on guard. What kinds of moves can punish this in terms of startup frames? Do I need an attack that starts up in 4 frames or less? I'm new and really not sure how the math works.

Also does anyone know where to find what specials have invincibility? They don't seem to be on that frame data spreadsheet unless I totally missed it. Is there any site that has this information?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Yeah, CJ is right, if someone is just frame trapping you, just block and punish them if they end in the dragon punch.

Regarding frame data, if a move is -4, if you have a move with start-up frames under -4, you can most likely punish it, but keep in mind of push-back on block with moves. Test punishes in training mode using record mode; here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-3OtPcl3zQ

Regarding invincibility, you'll need to find it via record mode again. Using K' as a dummy, record him doing a normal throw, then use his one inch punch (f+A) on the opponents wake up as a meaty. Play it back then try to dp or do whatever you move you think has invincibility, and see if the move goes throw K'. If it does, it has a certain amount of start-up invincibility. If it doesn't, it has no invincibility. To test invincibilty during active frames, record K' doing his qcf+AC~P which is a slow fireball. Play it back then see if your move can phase through a certain amount of the fireball. Then try it at different ranges and what not. Try those and see if it helps.

[JupiterJazz]

Thanks for the video and the advice. I'll be sure to check out more of the stuff on your channel.

[AirLancer]

If you have any characters with 1f grabs, like Benimaru, Clark, or Yuri, you can always punish the double kicks.

[The Fluke]

If they are deadset on using upkicks, hit them between kicks. Whatever invincible move you have should do the trick. Even joe's 5 minute startup srk.D works. For other auto pilot setups you may or may not find smart/simple solutions like that. Good luck.