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Alice

Started by Mr.Minionman, August 05, 2016, 07:52:34 PM

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Mr.Minionman

August 05, 2016, 07:52:34 PM Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 04:08:58 AM by desmond_kof


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK

Throws
Chabudai Gaeshi - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;c
Seoi Nage Huu - (close) ;bk/ ;fd + ;d

Command Normals
Garnet Spin  - ;fd + ;b

Special Moves
Tiger Crack - ;dp + ;b/ ;d (*)
Southtown Variation - ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (*)
  ∟Southtown Variation • Charge [Southtown Variation ;a/ ;c ] ;fd + ;a / ;c
  ∟Southtown Variation • Spin [Southtown Variation ;a/ ;c ] ;fd + ;b / ;d
Wolf Combination - ;qcb + ;a / ;c (*)
  ∟Wolf Combination • Upper [Wolf Combination ;a/ ;c ] ;qcb + ;a/ ;c
      ∟Wolf Combination • Wave [Wolf Combination • Upper ;a/ ;c ] ;qcb + ;a/ ;c
Diving Tackle - (in air) ;qcb + ;b / ;d (*)  

Super Special Moves
Special Wolf Combination - ;qcf ;qcf + ;b/ ;d (!)
Shadow Dunk - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (!)

Climax Super Special Move
Full Set Alice - ;hcb ;hcb + ;a ;c

Wiki page: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alice_(XIV)
Wiki google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JtH42y4D-R3NrJ77ELf7bsGVR3hk4wdhTWShxpILuQc/edit

KrsJin

#1
August 18, 2016, 09:38:46 AM
Some quick ideas. She seems real cool but I'm struggling to come up with fancy stuff with her.

Converting off of j.CD:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/765444175005310977

One bar MAX Mode combo, corner only:
https://twitter.com/KrsJin/status/765440797843918848

desmond_kof

#2
August 25, 2016, 08:47:43 PM
Some quick things about Alice that I want to share:

cl. B: hits twice, good to start combos with but has to be cancelled into a safe special move because it can be punished by any quick moves

qcf+P, f+P or f+K: I'm currently experimenting to see if how safe this follow ups really are.

Alice has a fair amount of hard knockdowns like qcb+P rekkas, and dp+K. I'm currently looking for safe jump setups, empty jump setups, mixups, etc.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Crimefighter

#3
August 26, 2016, 04:34:57 AM Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 04:28:50 AM by Crimefighter
some frame data:
;dn ;df ;fd + ;a /  ;c ~  ;fd +  ;a /  ;c ranges from +0 to +3 on block depending on spacing, -2 on hit
;dn ;df ;fd + ;a /  ;c ~  ;fd +  ;b /  ;d is -29 on block
normals:
[spoiler]on block:
cl. ;a is +1
st. ;a is -2
cr. ;a is +1
cl. ;b is -10
st. ;b is +0
cr. ;b is +0
;fd ;b is -3
cl. ;c is -11
st. ;c is -5
cr. ;c is -7
cl. ;d is -4
st. ;d is -1
cr. ;d is -5[/spoiler]
she does get a safejump off of rekkas and DP anywhere (tested against Ryo A DP). You might be able to get one off of ex shadow dunk against slower reversals.

Edit: You can totally get a safejump off DP midscreen I just screwed up the recording the first time cause I'm dumb

desmond_kof

#4
September 07, 2016, 09:42:07 PM
I started working on Alice's page a bit. I will add more combos later. If anyone has any suggestions, questions, comments or corrections please post them!

http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alice_(XIV)
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Krazysh0t

#5
September 19, 2016, 06:55:55 PM
How do you use this character? She seems to fail HARD to characters with projectiles or anyone who wants to just run away all match. Her Southtown Variation is easy to dodge and if it whiffs leaves you open for a day and a half to be punished, plus if you get crossed up mid rekka, it may come out anyways.

It's great she gets so many ways to score a hard knockdown, but if I can never get near my opponent, or score a hit to do so she just becomes a wasted slot on my team. I've been looking for tournament footage or even just high level play, but nothing seems to get posted.

desmond_kof

#6
September 19, 2016, 07:49:34 PM
Quote from: Krazysh0t on September 19, 2016, 06:55:55 PM
How do you use this character? She seems to fail HARD to characters with projectiles or anyone who wants to just run away all match. Her Southtown Variation is easy to dodge and if it whiffs leaves you open for a day and a half to be punished, plus if you get crossed up mid rekka, it may come out anyways.

It's great she gets so many ways to score a hard knockdown, but if I can never get near my opponent, or score a hit to do so she just becomes a wasted slot on my team. I've been looking for tournament footage or even just high level play, but nothing seems to get posted.

Alice is fun but she struggles during neutral. She isn't very fast & a lot of her special moves I feel are just for combo material. Her best ground pokes are st. B,  st. D (the side kick) and her st. C (the angled punch) but they can be unreliable and whiffed punished. Speaking of unreliable, her close normals are very unreliable too, and don't have great range, like cl. B (that hits twice) for example. You have to be VERY close to your opponent for it to properly activate which is dangerous because it opens you up for throws.

And yes, she has hard knockdowns but you can't (at least from my experience) get much proper okizeme from her, her j. D doesn't reliably cross-up, and like I said before, her close normals (to start combos) lack range.

Overall, I think and I hope SNK buffs her up a bit because I like her design & she's fun to play with but she is just very mediocre at the moment. My friend SGW said it best: she (and Mui Mui) are just bad versions of Iori. Iori can do what Alice does but WAY better.

-desmond
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Krazysh0t

#7
September 20, 2016, 03:01:46 PM Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 03:06:53 PM by Krazysh0t
Yeah. That sounds about right. I guess I wasn't missing something about her after all. She's just flawed.

I will say that comboing j.D, cl.C is pretty easy despite cl.C's short range; j.D, cl.D not so much though.

I agree, she is fun to play, and to be honest I like that her specials are largely combo material. Keeps your gameplay honest; I just wish her normals were a bit better to make up for this. Well maybe SNK has something in store for her in the October update.

DiamondDust132

#9
December 11, 2016, 05:33:08 PM
Loving that frame data. Wish she had more plus normals to counter her dreadful neutral game.

In terms of 'proper okiezeme', she really only has it in the corner, but it's quite effective. Since her cr.B is cancelable now, you can do it into her Rekkas for another hardknock down. If they block low, you can do her overhead into a MAX MODE combo. She's still not great, but ver 1.03 did wonders for her. She's probably still my best character, as sad as that is to say, lol.

I think it's important to remember how good her st.B and st.D is. st.B is quick, even on block, and one of the closest things she has to a poke. It's not special cancelable, but if it hits, you get full MAX MODE combos. st.D is much slower, but has good range and also leads into full MAX MODE combos depending on spacing. Her neutral game is bad, but you can somewhat hold your own just by throwing those two pokes out.

I think anti airs are where she really suffers. st.A is the only one that I feel is reliable. Her others are just too slow to get the job done, and Tiger Crack works when it feels like it.

All in all, she's still my favorite character to use in this game and usually has a slot of my team. 2nd his her best spot. If you have a point who can build her meter, she does tons of damage. She doesn't build meter very well and is WAY too much of a meter hog to be played at 1st. 3rd is a possibility but she just has too many bad matchups to be relied on as your last hope.

Video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS4AFAEgBdc
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