The KOF/SNK podcast thread

[Dark Geese]

I don't see having a chip on one's shoulder as something helpful... Infact, most times it can hinder and make someone lose focus because they have such a grudge against this person or that person that they overwork themselves, instead of just being focus (which can be done with or without the grudge). One can be determined to prove people wrong about their skill level or winning a tourney (or placing high), but that doesn't have to involve grudges of any kind... And in some cases, having a chip on one's shoulder could lead to cockiness which could also result in laxation depending on the person (Michael Jordan was so cocky at one point in his career he didn't think he could get crossed up by Allen Iverson, but did -- and very badly)...

I agree with the need to travel, but why "construct skyscrapers in other countries when there's not even a hut in our own"??? What I mean is that the general consensus from what I read and hear is that when it comes to skill level and KoF in the states, we're weak overall (like you won't see us crushing dudes in Japan or Hong Kong, etc. in high level tourneys). If you're in the states, and you've got a console with KoF and some sticks (or pads) and there's someone with at least an inkling of KoF knowledge that's near other cats that are interested in the game, why not start building there??? It might take some time, but all things take time to grow (babies, level of knowledge, annuity accounts, etc). You can't expect to hop in a dojo and come out a black belt in a week. Even with high standards, a sifu will still take time to train up even the most difficult students, albeit in a strict manner, but there's still training done... Once that time and care has been put into the scene to where they're competitive, then traveling to tourneys would be cool. I mean even while the scene is being built, traveling would be good for the sheer fact that you can see how other cats play, and you can see what character is strong in that particular region - the learning experience would be beneficial... Leaving a comfort zone can be as simple as hooking up with a cat across the street to play KoF instead of on xbl/psn...

I agree with what you say, everything has to be done with balance. I hold a chip on my shoulder because I always remember everything people said since the 1st time I even set foot, and I always use it as motivation to crush my opponents in matches. With that being said, I do not allow it to cloud my vision unless that person is still running their mouth, then as far as I am concerned now, then it becomes personal. I am at my best when I have extra motivation (people talking smack before something etc etc.). I play to win always, and win decisively, but if it's personal, then I play to embarrass, thats what extra motivation can do. Take a look at sports, teams try to refuse saying anything negatively about an opponent for the most part prior to a match because they know that extra bit of motivation could prove to be their undoing.

That is what I am talking about.

I also agree with the sifu training the toughest of opponents and people starting here. I am glad to see some progress with KOF tournaments happening in the North on a consistent basis, that is a start, but I feel more locals need to happen as well. In Mexico for example local tournaments in DF would happen every 1-2 weeks, that is the type of dedication that is going to be required to get at a particular level.

Now for example with the example of me w/MightyMar, it is time for him to train and get that experience in tournaments he needs, I cannot give that to him simply playing casuals, it is a different environment period. It is different playing in casuals when you know you have 20 more matches vs. in a tournament when you only have two! This experience overall MightyMar needs and he has to get it in order to get to that next level in regards to skill! So he can get that in his area in Chicago/The North now, and that will make him even stronger than he is now!

Now also in regards to going to other countries, that's a catch 22 in regards to what you said IMHO.

If someone wants to level up FASTER, I say they travel to another country, esp since we all know overall the USA is very, very weak, so if you wanna get much stronger I say train in another country.

I understand people have to build up their confidence, but if they can build up their confidence in another country like Mexico etc, then they will be very very very very far ahead of the people trying to do the same thing in the USA simply because of the higher level of skill!

It would be like if someone learning basketball played with people like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose all the time (playing in Mexico/Japan/China/Korea/Taiwan/Peru/Brazil etc) vs. someone playing with their neighborhood basketball player that hasn't played basketball in years and could hardly be considered a pro.

Which one is going to teach the player faster?

Which one is also going to weed out the NON-SERIOUS PLAYERS FASTER?

Very very key is the second one, you want to weed out the people that are going to waste your time as quickly as possible, thus I make sure when I am training someone HARDCORE, I put them through boot camp all the time, in other words I want to make sure they are serious and not wasting my time, if they are a dabbler/timewaster then they will proceed to leave or quit.

Also training with the wrong people or those that are very low level can teach people BAD HABITS, and that is another problem, they learn bad habits due to playing low level of play, and then in a tournament or against someone that doesn't do those bad habits, they punish them quickly!!!


Example: It's like learning how to shoot a gun from your country friends or a gangbanger vs. learning how to shoot a GUN FROM A UNITED STATES MARINE!

World of a difference!!!!!!!!

[Dark Geese]

Also this goes back to what I was saying- If you think like an average player and do the things that average players do (Train with the people around them only, only travel to local/area/regional tournaments) despite whatever financial circumstances you may be in preventing you from travelling....the bottom line is the same:

You will be an average player!

**But if you train with people of very very high skill, think like a TOP player, leave the country, you will eventually become a top player!**

So it is all about what does the individual person want! If they want to eventually compete with the TOPS even in the USA on a consistent basis and then into the other countries, then they are going to have to start travelling and leaving the country so that they can level up immensely!

Let me illustrate:

I level up 10x EACH time I go play in Mexico, in comparison to about 2x after each Geese Tower session with MightyMar.

Why is this?

The goals are the same yet different!

In Mexico I am testing things out, learning stuff, but playing to my FULL POTENTIAL, not sandbagging, playing my TRUE TEAMS all out, why? BECAUSE I HAVE TO JUST TO SURVIVE AND STAY ON THE STICK!

In the USA, it's more about just testing out new things, seeing new things how they work, learning new characters I experimented/saw in Mexico etc, stuff like that.

In Mexico I don't try/learn/experiment with new characters, why? I have to play at my full potential!!!!!!

[sibarraz]

It also depends where you live

For example, here I had arcades with all the kof's that I want to play (except 2002um) and when you play in an arcade, I always put at play all my tools, I don't save anything, also here I had a big variety of players which I still need to learn how to play with them

[Dark Geese]

It also depends where you live

For example, here I had arcades with all the kof's that I want to play (except 2002um) and when you play in an arcade, I always put at play all my tools, I don't save anything, also here I had a big variety of players which I still need to learn how to play with them

Exactly, that itself is another huge determinant, because there are players in Mexico that do not travel, but also do not need to travel (leave the country) due to the sheer amount of competition they have in their area alone. But then again, I would say leaving your country then would not hurt because imagine if you take a top player like Kula in Mexico, and then take him to Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Argentina, Brazil etc, he's only gonna get that much stronger, and then on an international level he will begin to make noise!!!

It all depends on how good does a person really want to be? Are they content being the best in their state? Best in their region? Best in the USA? Or do they wanna be the best in TWO COUNTRIES? Best in 3-5 countries? Best in their HEMISPHERE? BEST IN THE WORLD????????

So it all depends on what they want to achieve!

[desmond_kof]

It all depends on how good does a person really want to be? Are they content being the best in their state? Best in their region? Best in the USA? Or do they wanna be the best in TWO COUNTRIES? Best in 3-5 countries? Best in their HEMISPHERE? BEST IN THE WORLD????????

That is a good statement and point, you can only go as far as you really want or care for, it just matters how much passion and interest you have in the game.

Also, people have to start small and have their short/long term goals planned out. For a new players maybe just being the best in their city or state is good for them temporarily, then working on becoming the best in their region, then country, then so on and so on...

But sometimes I do wish that KOF players in USA shouldn't have to always leave the country JUST to level up (or even play people that know how to play). People just need to step their game up, we should only leave a country to challenge others, not to learn how to play...

[jinxhand]

People just need to step their game up, we should only leave a country to challenge others, not to learn how to play...

Exactly!!! The US is weak (/dead horse), but that doesn't mean that there's high level players in areas that we can learn from (whether on chat, xbl/psn, or face to face)... I look at it this way: in Tekken, Korea has the best Tekken players hands down, and that's been proven these past few years, but I shouldn't have to go over there or Japan, or any other country when there's at least a dozen high caliber players in the US... I improved my game while living in Hawaii and became a really solid Feng player, and traveled to San Diego due to work, but still managed to show and prove to the SDTekken cats there... I went to Korea, and Japan and won and loss matches in both T4 and TTT, but it all started in Hawaii (really before that it was in MD & VA, but that's a long story)... My learning experience didn't start by me traveling everywhere else outside the states... I traveled all around Oahu with a few buddies of mine just battling in any game available to learn and grow (but one of our primary mains was Tekken at the time)... You can't expect one who is really hardcore and wants to learn the game to just up and travel to some country to learn how to play when the resources and people are indeed here...

I agree that some traveling is involved, but you can't eat an elephant in one huge gulp. You gotta take bites... Man, for some people, the traveling can only be done over the net (xbl/psn)... For others, get off the couch, and hit up a homeboy/homegirl and get sessions started, get people seriously interested in learning, and learn from those upper tier players in the surrounding areas that can step your game up...

Also, not everybody can easily get a plane ticket to Japan or Korea nor is everybody is willing to fork out some dough on Rosetta Stone to learn a game from some cat that might not understand what you're saying... Why take an expedition to learn something that can easily be learned right here in plain ole English??? Case in point, Dandy J has a dope KoF tutorial vid just to get people's feet wet with the game and understanding the basics... Throw some subtitles on those 2k2UM Master Class videos, and more people might be interested in learning a specific character... "Oh snap, there's a local tourney going on, and this guy is gonna be there to help improve our game???" Travel to that spot and learn (crush, get crush, help evolve the scene)... The US KoF scene isn't the blind leading the blind... You can say the same thing about almost any fighting game scene out here... I mean cats aren't going to Japan to learn how to play MB, SnR, BF, AH or even ST... There were people just like you guys breaking that mess down to a science that was digestible for others interested in eating, and in turn made others want to figure other things out within the game...

Also this goes back to what I was saying- If you think like an average player and do the things that average players do (Train with the people around them only, only travel to local/area/regional tournaments) despite whatever financial circumstances you may be in preventing you from travelling....the bottom line is the same:

You will be an average player!

**But if you train with people of very very high skill, think like a TOP player, leave the country, you will eventually become a top player!**

Again, leaving a country is not required to become a high level player... There are tons of people in tons of fighting scenes with uber high levels of skill and they only play locally, across the state they're in, or even on xbl/psn... Now whether or not they want to take it "the next level" by traveling (outside their city/state/region/country) and battling, that's up to them...

I level up 10x EACH time I go play in Mexico, in comparison to about 2x after each Geese Tower session with MightyMar.

Why is this?

The goals are the same yet different!

In Mexico I am testing things out, learning stuff, but playing to my FULL POTENTIAL, not sandbagging, playing my TRUE TEAMS all out, why? BECAUSE I HAVE TO JUST TO SURVIVE AND STAY ON THE STICK!

In the USA, it's more about just testing out new things, seeing new things how they work, learning new characters I experimented/saw in Mexico etc, stuff like that.

In Mexico I don't try/learn/experiment with new characters, why? I have to play at my full potential!!!!!!

Why not fight at your full potential here and show people how to get stronger??? Because reading this it just seems like you go all out over there, then you get back here and don't really give a damn like its just "meh"... I would hope that you would fight with the intent that he can (and will) surpass your skill level if you don't play at your full potential... If its one thing I learned playing fighting games, is to never go easy on anyone, even if its a damn 5 year old kid... A buddy of mine got crushed in a fighting game several years back by a 9 year old (although some other cats said he was 5)... Either way, you can't underestimate your opponent, whether or not they know as much as you do...

[Dark Geese]

Jinxhand- Because the more I go to Mexico, I come back here, and then as I was telling Desmond, I don't have to try remotely as hard to get the same result. Every time I come back from Mexico, it's like I have to try less and less and less here to get the same result. While that in itself is disappointing/VERY frustrating,  I know people aren't learning or seeing the stuff I'm seeing in Mexico. There are some times I will turn it up in some Geese Tower matches a little bit harder than normal and the result will be basically an OCV, a perfect, or something like that. I'm not trying to embarrass someone if I know they want to learn, and here in the USA my role is more like a teacher. I take the role of a teacher in the USA, in Mexico, my role is STUDENT so I'm learning in Mexico, in the USA I'm teaching. Also I see my training is helping judging by just how MightyMar is handling playing vs. different characters. Due to me playing him with almost everyone in the game (something if he was just playing me in Mexico he wouldn't get because in Mexico I play with only my best teams), he has some good experience vs. almost every character someone may throw at him!

So for me if I am going to be the teacher like I am here in the USA, then I am going to get them ready for as much as I possibly can if I know they aren't really travelling to see these different styles like I am.

The way I see it if I am training them it is a process, as I do with MightyMar I throw certain things at him, coach him on it, and keep throwing it at him eventually until he learns how to defend against it, while at the same time testing ideas I have in my head or stuff I did in practice to see how it works.

Also another disadvantage of me playing all out the time unfortunately for my subscribers (I've heard some whine) is they say: "You are playing the same characters all the time, do you know how to play anyone else?"

So it's a catch 22. Even when I am just playing one team over and over again, and not to my full potential, I get the whiners that say stuff like "Can u use anyone else in the game?"

So I jot these whiners down as more people to shut up, by showing them I can play with damn near anyone in the game, while this at the same time would teach someone how to play versus these characters in the game! Because basically 100% of the time anytime I am not using my tournament team you know without question that I am sandbagging! (I'm not using my best team, so therefore I'm not playing to my full potential!)

Also I understand what you are saying about Tekken, but Tekken compared to Korea, and KOF compared to the USA isn't a fair comparison. There are good Tekken players here in the USA, in regards to KOF, if you wanna say "Good" players, there are a handful if that, and then that's subjective, because good in the USA is what in Mexico??? Probably Low Mid to High Mid, and depending on how much international experience per good players in the USA have, good in the USA could be below average in Mexico in KOF.

The only places people can truly get a basis of fundamentals in the USA are:
1. Geese Tower
2. Arcade Infinity
3. CTF
4. Minnesota

Otherwise to tell you the truth, they could learn stuff online.

Basically what Desmond is saying is the truth, if you want to play very high level players for the most part you have to travel in the USA, and that's going to be the truth until I can see some super high level play across the board in the United States.

Also yeah Desmond, it is unfortunate, that's how I feel, in order to get truly challenged by many many many players in various games, I feel I have to go down South... =(

[sibarraz]

The other thing is that if you don't play with to many guys, at times you could meet some people that use characters in a way that you had never expected, and you don't now how to react

Hell, Today I learned lots of things about mary and Athena that I never though I could see, and only in 2 matches (98um)

[desmond_kof]

The other thing is that if you don't play with to many guys, at times you could meet some people that use characters in a way that you had never expected, and you don't now how to react

Hell, Today I learned lots of things about mary and Athena that I never though I could see, and only in 2 matches (98um)

That's a good point because certain people use different characters in a number of ways. Sometimes you may think you really know a match up against a certain character, but then to find out a different person plays then in an entirely different type of style and approach.

[Dark Geese]

The other thing is that if you don't play with to many guys, at times you could meet some people that use characters in a way that you had never expected, and you don't now how to react

Hell, Today I learned lots of things about mary and Athena that I never though I could see, and only in 2 matches (98um)

That is also the truth, if you JUST go all out all the time, then inexposure to other playstyles is always going to throw you off guard! This is a major reason I make sure and learn all the cast if at all possible! This is another reason why it is very very hard to truly master every character in a game, because even then say you master Angel, what if Peruvian style Angel is different from Mexican style Angel? Again, I am sure you can always learn something from how someone in a different area plays a character vs. how you play them! Like I play Kasumi in 2k2UM very different from how I see most Kasumi players play her in in Japan.

I also play Nameless very very different than say 95% of the Nameless's I see on match videos, most I see wait to level two to land the level 2 BC combo, I don't need a level 2 combo, I can manually activate and get a 50% combo on you with Nameless with one bar! (If you jump or stay on the ground!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF-M1x7ofzg

So there are many ways to play a character, and there is no ONE RIGHT WAY, if it works for you and gets results so be it, besides why wouldn't you wanna learn as many different ways as possible to play your character to maximize their potential?

[nilcam]

There's definitely some interesting discussion in this thread but it is off topic. I'm thinking about splitting it into a new thread so that the podcast thread is on-topic and this discussion moves forward.

[Dark Geese]

There's definitely some interesting discussion in this thread but it is off topic. I'm thinking about splitting it into a new thread so that the podcast thread is on-topic and this discussion moves forward.

I'm fine with that, because all I'm doing is buying time and keeping the discussion going until my podcast is put up, then the irony is we are gonna be talking about the same stuff again lol because that's what I was talking about in the podcast lol, so I'm giving people a preview lol.

[Dark Geese]

And I'm telling you everything I am talking about and have talked about in this thread is in my podcast that is going to get posted up here, so prior to having people discuss it anyways when it gets posted up, we can get the discussion out the way now, so people will already know what's going to be said on the podcast.

And once it is posted, you will see exactly what I am talking about, I pretty much cover everything that I've been talking about in this thread AND More!

[desmond_kof]

There's definitely some interesting discussion in this thread but it is off topic. I'm thinking about splitting it into a new thread so that the podcast thread is on-topic and this discussion moves forward.

Yeah I didn't know we were going off-topic, my bad...

I thought some of the points made were ones that were featured in the past podcasts.

[sibarraz]

Wouldn't be better to create 2 separate threads?

One with the announcing of podcasts and other one where you can talk about the topics discussed there