The KOF/SNK Podcast DISCUSSION Thread

[Dark Geese]

All discussion related to everything that is going on in all the podcasts posted will go here.

So if you wanna talk about what Desmond said in his podcast, DeadlyRaveNeo, what I am saying in mine when it goes up etc, you can talk about it right here, that way the other thread is just posting the podcast videos. Again like anything else, it is fine to disagree with people, but disagree in a respectful fashion!!!

[desmond_kof]

DeadlyRave-Neo said around the 32:00 mark of his podcast that you should apply the same formula you did before as far as getting people to play and running tournaments here in the USA, but say before that you've tried for 5 years...what would you need for players here in the USA to have you take the scene here seriously?

[Dark Geese]

DeadlyRave-Neo said around the 32:00 mark of his podcast that you should apply the same formula you did before as far as getting people to play and running tournaments here in the USA, but say before that you've tried for 5 years...what would you need for players here in the USA to have you take the scene here seriously?

Many many issues I think need to change for people to take the scene seriously and I talk about this in my podcast:

1. People unwilling to travel- You gotta go to tournaments even in your area and support the games and show ME that support if I am going to be willing to do such a thing. I operate more now with a business mind than I did in the past, so time is money, and now I have to be able to show my boss what objectives were achieved by making a particular visit, so it all has to pan out! So when I plan to make a particular trip to XYZ area I can show my boss WHY I am going to that area, I can say for example "Raging Storm Minnesota paid for itself, thus I am making another tournament in Minnesota because I know the overhead costs are going to pay for themselves, thus a higher chance for profit!"

What business person would continue to invest after one-two years if they are not seeing a return on their investment and even after they have distanced themselves from it still get linked to what is currently going on (aka the drama and my name being associated with such things I am no longer a part of!)??

It normally takes 1-2 years for a business to get up and running, but 5 years is too long!!

Mr. Wizard is saying the same thing as me, we both have to see support for these games in the USA before they are considered on a grander scale. I have to see support for these games in the USA before I consider doing what I use to do again, esp now when I can see this type of support South of the border. What reasons should I choose the USA vs. Mexico? This is what is going on in my mind. The USA had its chance, and it is still in the same predicament as it's always been, with KOF13 being quite possibly the LAST hope!

2. Too many dabblers- We need more serious players, less dabblers period, and I do not like traveling to these places only to see people that are just playing the games to pass the time!

3. Online vs. Offline wars with a lot of online players not wanting to travel to tournaments to play offline: Huge problem. If the so-called "Best players in the USA" are online, what good do they do us if they aren't joining with us to play in offline tournaments? If the issue is skill you can always go to an INTERNATIONAL tournament, where you can rest assured you will get the skill you seek!!!

4. Too many factions: ie Sam Sho crowd, World Heroes crowd, KOF crowd which has its own factions, 98 players vs. 2002 players, KOFXI players, KOFXII players, KOF13 players, KOF 2000 players, KOF 95 players, Fatal Fury crowd, Capcom fanboys saying Garou MOTW is the best SNK game because it plays like a Capcom game, Garou MOTW players themselves, Real Bout 2 players, Real Bout Special players, Real Bout 1 players, Fatal Fury Special players, SvC Chaos players, and I could go on and on and on.

Another very important faction: Arcade players only that believe all console characters in any game should be banned vs. those that only play the console versions never played the arcade and those in between, and finally Arcade players that do not believe in Macros vs those that are in between, versus new age console players that feel macros should be allowed to simplify things and bring in newer players, in other words to which many could argue you are "dumbing down" the game so new players can play!

All of this is what I am talking about when it comes to factions, hard to unite people when there are soooo many factions and so little support!


5. Lack of appreciation/respect shown for anyone that puts time and effort into trying to do something-This makes it where people do not want to try to do things anymore (myself included) when you are constantly disrespected for trying to do anything! This goes across the board:

5a. Those that disrespect people uploading videos as if "they could do better when most of them could not"

5b. Those that disrespect people running tournaments like they "rigged the bracket that's the only way they could've won" when even when you let someone else run the tournament, results are the same.

5c. Those that make fun anytime someone is running a tournament like "Why was that game chosen" when they do not understand that said game was chosen by the people that are actually going to show up!

5d. Those that do not understand that I work hard to get my tvs at EVO- They bash the fact that I have the entire BYOC section, when I wake up at like 7:00 AM to achieve it, and if they did the same they could as well!

I could go on and on, but after seeing this stuff year after year after year, why would ANYONE want to deal with this constantly????

5e. Very rarely does anyone say THANK YOU for what you have done, it is always people critiquing saying how they could "Do things better", but these people never do such a thing!

5f. People that whine either way about youtube videos: You are damned if you use any top tier/one team in videos a lot, damned if you don't use a top tier or don't play your hardest all the time because they don't like you sandbagging.

So I lose either way- Someone like Dan is going to degrade me if I use Eiji-EX Geese-Krauser all the time in matches, or someone else is going to whine if I decide to play with everyone in the game because they can clearly see I am not really trying, I am just messing around with all the characters!

6. Lack of skill level/progress- Very important. I try to do many different things, have many different ideas just to try and inspire people to play, just random ideas I try just to try and inspire people to play (that's even what the GOODMAN thing was in NGBC that he mentions in his podcast, it was a random idea because I was tired of seeing stagnant growth, so I became desperate to try ANYTHING that would give people a reason to play), and it always gets the same result, so after that I stop trying. I see people that aren't improving in skill level or their improvements are so minor it doesn't really matter anymore, and I feel like I am just wasting my time and money because the community is spinning its wheels!

All these divisions makes it very difficult to unite a common ruleset that everyone agrees with, someone is not going to always like the games chosen for a tournament because they are not exactly what they envisioned it would be! When I am getting tugged from all these different angles in addition to getting disrespect from people that do not understand what it is like to be in that position, constantly lose money, constantly be frustrated by the lack of support and low level of skill, and constantly get stepped on by people that seem unappreciative and seem like freeloaders, then over time it gets to the point where it is no longer worth me doing or it is time to change the course of action.

[sibarraz]

About the factions, I think that a big problem at least on USA is that until after the release of XII, you never got a consistent KOF released that lots of people were expecting, lots of players maybe start to know thanks to neoragex or other emulators, and they picked whatever SNK that they liked first

At least I think that with XIII, if the game sticks with people expectations, you can start to build something there with all this people trying to learn this new game, at least in south america and japan there is not this attitude since the vast majority plays all the kofs released (or at least the most mainstream, lke 98 and 2002)

[Dark Geese]

About the factions, I think that a big problem at least on USA is that until after the release of XII, you never got a consistent KOF released that lots of people were expecting, lots of players maybe start to know thanks to neoragex or other emulators, and they picked whatever SNK that they liked first

At least I think that with XIII, if the game sticks with people expectations, you can start to build something there with all this people trying to learn this new game, at least in south america and japan there is not this attitude since the vast majority plays all the kofs released (or at least the most mainstream, lke 98 and 2002)

Agreed very good points, that is why I say for now until KOFXIV comes out (if it does) or Garou II HD comes out, KOFXIII is the last hope!

[jinxhand]

One thing that does bug me is the sense that because a particular game has a mediocre (or garbage) online mode that the game sucks period... I know there were quite a few people anticipating KOF2002UM and even 98UM to be released, but shot it down because it wasn't as great online... 2K2UM is pretty good from my experience... Its no BB or HDR, and damn sure isn't SSS in terms of good netcode, but it should at least be played locally, and that's something some cats don't do... Hell, I still play 98UM regardless of how good or bad the online is... I even play Battle Fantasia (BF) and that is one game that probably has the worse netcode for a fighting game since its release on console... But does it make it a bad game??? Absolutely not... I'm willing to call that game a great fighting game to check out (3S worthy imo), at least for the system, since its been balanced heavily (unlike the arcade version)... But enough about that, this is KoF... All of the games released by SNK on xbl are good games... If it doesn't have a great netcode, tell SNK about it, and pray that they fix it... Same for XIII; if the fans/players have expectations, tell SNK those expectations, and maybe they'll listen... At this point they listen to us more than Sega does, although maybe not as much as Capcom, but its a start... Either way, that still shouldn't be a deterent from buying and playing the game if the only issue for the most part is an online mode... If anything, play the game locally... Tournaments and sessions didn't start online first... It started with people getting together physically, and battling it out face to face...

As far as factions go, KoF has every major character from whatever game people choose to stand by (with some exceptions), and 2k2UM is pretty balanced (minus the bosses of course)... For the Samsho cats, well--- pick a character on KoF with a weapon (Billy Kane, Chin, Chang, Choi, Whip, etc...) or take a challenge and learn a new character...

[Dark Geese]

This is true, people judge a game based on if the online works, and this is NOT how these games began. People didn't start playing these games online, before GGPO or Generation GGPO as I call it, everyone went to the arcades OR they waited till the game came home on Super NES or Sega Genesis and played it then, there was no ONLINE to judge a game by, this is why I say as I did in other parts that this new wave Generation GGPO is part of the problem with things now and days, some of these people discredit traveling and think they can just stay at home on GGPO and get the skills required to go compete in a very high level tournament, when this isn't gonna work!!

I say this again, I support people doing BOTH playing online and offline, or I understand those people that live in BFE and have NO one to play so they play online, I understand that, but I am talking about a philosophy here, those people that simple refuse to travel even IF they could because of laziness!!!

[krazykone123]

The USA had its chance, and it is still in the same predicament as it's always been, with KOF13 being quite possibly the LAST hope!

I don't see KOF XIII as our last hope but more so our big break, a lot of KOF fans/players (in America anyway) despite dealing with SNKP's constant fumbling over these past years are putting a lot of faith on XIII being successful. After all these years even if XIII fails hard I don't see anyone really quitting because most of us are still here, and if someone does quit then it's their problem and not ours.

Too many dabblers- We need more serious players, less dabblers period, and I do not like traveling to these places only to see people that are just playing the games to pass the time!

Well how about you stick around and help turn these dabblers into serious players? at least this way you won't have to pony up the cash to just to travel and fight scrubs all day.

Online vs. Offline wars with a lot of online players not wanting to travel to tournaments to play offline: Huge problem.

This war is fictional, we could go back and forth all day about which is better but it all dwindles down to personal preference.

Personally I prefer both.

Too many factions: ie Sam Sho crowd, World Heroes crowd, KOF crowd which has its own factions, 98 players vs. 2002 players, KOFXI players, KOFXII players, KOF13 players, KOF 2000 players, KOF 95 players, Fatal Fury crowd, Capcom fanboys saying Garou MOTW is the best SNK game because it plays like a Capcom game, Garou MOTW players themselves, Real Bout 2 players, Real Bout Special players, Real Bout 1 players, Fatal Fury Special players, SvC Chaos players, and I could go on and on and on.

They have that everywhere, the most well know example being "ST vs SFIV vs 3S vs HDR".

All of this is what I am talking about when it comes to factions, hard to unite people when there are soooo many factions and so little support!

That's where determination is supposed to kick in, lack of support or gumption for your efforts is discouraging but quitting instead of pacing yourself or asking for help won't solve anything because then you'll back at the drawing board.

Lack of appreciation/respect shown for anyone that puts time and effort into trying to do something-This makes it where people do not want to try to do things anymore (myself included) when you are constantly disrespected for trying to do anything! This goes across the board

This is just me but I don't really care if people respect my efforts or not, plus if people have the right to like my stuff then they have every right to hate my stuff too. No high horse mentality here.

Those that disrespect people uploading videos as if "they could do better when most of them could not"

It's gonna happen sooner or later, it's best to ignore it and go about your business.

Those that disrespect people running tournaments like they "rigged the bracket that's the only way they could've won" when even when you let someone else run the tournament, results are the same.

Still childish, ignore it.

Those that make fun anytime someone is running a tournament like "Why was that game chosen" when they do not understand that said game was chosen by the people that are actually going to show up!

Eh, move along lol.

Those that do not understand that I work hard to get my tvs at EVO- They bash the fact that I have the entire BYOC section, when I wake up at like 7:00 AM to achieve it, and if they did the same they could as well!

Maybe they just wanted to push buttons with their friends? anyway you showed more determination then they did so you got the spot, good job, now ignore them... or taunt them, which ever makes you feel better.

Very rarely does anyone say THANK YOU for what you have done, it is always people critiquing saying how they could "Do things better", but these people never do such a thing!

Well everyone wants to be a critique and throw out their opinion regardless if it's warranted or but it doesn't really bother me so it's whatever. If it bothers you so much then tell them to get on your level.

When I am getting tugged from all these different angles in addition to getting disrespect from people that do not understand what it is like to be in that position, constantly lose money, constantly be frustrated by the lack of support and low level of skill, and constantly get stepped on by people that seem unappreciative and seem like freeloaders, then over time it gets to the point where it is no longer worth me doing or it is time to change the course of action.

When you're carrying all of those burdens at once you're bound to lose your balance sooner or later, it sounds like you need to limit yourself to a few things at a time and get your priorities in check imo.

[Dark Geese]

Good points Krazykone, the time when I actually got banned from SRK allowed me to clear my head away from all of that and focus on the things that are the most important, and being around all that stuff I said in the USA had caused me to lose my focus; so now I am much more focused, and going to Mexico is a nice "breath of fresh air" that I tell people that everyone needs to take from time to time just so they don't get overwhelmed!

About the dabblers, well I am trying to do that the best I can, I would still like a sparring partner here in the USA if anything to help me test out stuff and stay sharp in Mexico, so I am still looking for that, so I will help them out when I can without question.  That person that loves to teach is still in me, but I also don't like being taken advantage of, that's the flip side of the equation I am about to get into.

In regards to the people respecting my effort, I see it like this: How long of someone stepping on your toes and taking your granted would you take before you decided not to bother anymore?

At what point of you trying to help people and them constantly taking you for granted would you finally decide it is not worth it anymore?

Eventually it would come a point where you would decide to get rid of that particular person that continues to take you for granted correct?

I am no different, I do not like being used and taken for granted, as I am sure no one does.

That's basically what it amounts to. Now Thank God for sites like this, it reminds me there are a lot of people out there that do not think and behave the same way as many I have seen before in other areas.

To me again bottom line is respect- The person does not have to like what I do they may hate it, but as I have said in the podcast, you can tell someone to Go to Hell in the most respectful way possible, and I stand by that, you can say everything in a way that is not the least bit confrontational, yet still get your point across!

The older I get the less patience I have for people that cannot respectfully disagree about something.

[krazykone123]

How long of someone stepping on your toes and taking your granted would you take before you decided not to bother anymore?

Depends on the situation, if people were out right using me more for their own personal gain or amusement after I tried to lend them a helping hand they can screw off. But then again this seems like one of those situations where your only gonna get the results you want through perseverance, an uphill battle. I mean you couldn't really say everyone that you were reaching out to was out to make you feel like you were wasting your time right? I know some people had to appreciate your work.

At what point of you trying to help people and them constantly taking you for granted would you finally decide it is not worth it anymore?

Depends what I'm sacrificing, if I'm wasting money and I feel my work for the community has gone wanting in appreciation then I would probably quit, and fast because I hate wasting money. Now if I'm sacrificing time then that's just as worse, because like you said time is money and if I'm not making money you're wasting my time. But to be honest it's kind of hard to put myself in your shoes because I haven't done anything on your level yet so my opinion might come out half-arsed.

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't quit because I'm too stubborn, if I'm losing money then I'd probably quit for a little while then come back when I get my shit together.

Eventually it would come a point where you would decide to get rid of that particular person that continues to take you for granted correct?

Yeah I'd drop him from the jump off lol.

I am no different, I do not like being used and taken for granted, as I am sure no one does.

Very true.

To me again bottom line is respect- The person does not have to like what I do they may hate it, but as I have said in the podcast, you can tell someone to Go to Hell in the most respectful way possible, and I stand by that, you can say everything in a way that is not the least bit confrontational, yet still get your point across!

Respect is important but you have to remember there will always be those people that aren't worth your respect at all, it goes vice-versa too. Like you said tell them to "Go to Hell in the most respectful way possible", sure they'll most likely think the same way towards you in return but that's just how beef is.

The older I get the less patience I have for people that cannot respectfully disagree about something.

Well some people are just like that, some of them may change in due time while some of them won't, it's best you just shrug your shoulders and forget about it, your patience is better directing toward something worth your time.

[Dark Geese]

Okay it seems you understand where I'm coming from, time is money, and I am wasting time AND money going to these tournaments. They average $500 per tournament just for traveling expenses to go to all of this, and as a player I don't feel I am getting much out of it, and ontop of this I only make like maybe $50 MAX from winning all these tournaments or to get people to enter them I have to make them FREE...so I am without question wasting my money!

I am stubborn in that regard too, that is why I am going to see how things play out with KOF13, but at the same time I want to see some progress, and it is encouraging to see the MidWest at least starting to play on a regular basis, thus right now they are getting my support!! (See how that works!)

So if people want my support they have to do like what Minnesota/The MidWest and AI are doing: running tournaments on a consistent basis!

I also agree some people aren't worth my time, and about me replying to them a certain way, as I've said before a lot of that is just stirring the pot/building hype. As I have stated in the podcast, I have to put on the Don King role in order to gain INTERNATIONAL awareness for the tournaments, simply posting them in a thread isn't going to do any good, esp a predominately English speaking thread where KOF is NOT mainstream, it is more than likely going to get cast to the side. When I am spending $2,000 + on a tournament (The KOF Cup), I am simply NOT going to let that happen!

So we put together a marketing plan to get people talking! Lecter is handling the Hispanic commmunity (Cyberfanatix), he tells me 'Do you thing, you hype up the American community on SRK.'

So I am doing my part hyping things up on SRK. SRK=One big marketing tool, esp since the KOF section is moderator LESS, and it's nothing but chaos in there, I simply use that to my advantage to promote and get people talking about things. The out of hand stuff on SRK is for certain the racism and racist remarks (Even Lecter sees this stuff), but again I say if that is going to get people paying attention and possibly should we get a stream watching, hey it worked!

Other than that people have to understand I am just going to walk away from the LG and other people, I only see reason to deal with them if I know it's going to hype up a particular event!

It's like a job, I do my job, then I go home and be the way I really am, same thing here, I would rather stay away from SRK to be honest like I said I would!

But I have to make a sacrifice, and when it comes to business, you separate business from emotion AND PLEASURE, rule of thumb Business 101. You do not mix business and feelings or emotion.

So while I cannot stand the KOF section of SRK with the utmost hatred (Yes hatred!), I have to put that aside and go in there and with a business mindset do what I gotta do to make sure people around the WORLD are paying attention to what is going to happen in 2 months!

[DeadlyRave-Neo]

good podcast lucas

[Dark Geese]

good podcast lucas

Thanks!

Lukus that is, like Rorick for your name right?

[DeadlyRave-Neo]

good podcast lucas

Thanks!

Lukus that is, like Rorick for your name right?

my bad i forgot it was lukus

[Dark Geese]

good podcast lucas

Thanks!

Lukus that is, like Rorick for your name right?

my bad i forgot it was lukus

You know I'm giving you a hard time because u all did when I would misspell your name lol.