The King of Fighters XIII Video Thread

[Diavle]

but diavle, you do understand that exdm's are overpowered and use 1 super bar less and 2 full dc bars less to do while only doing 100 damage less. so as a punishment move using something like exdm will always be better, even if nm did have exdm properties, cause youd be losing another bar and full hd bar with it. it wouldnt be overpowered imo, far from it.

How are exdms overpowered? They are powerful but thats about it.

You also have to consider the neomax itself, not every one is going to be useful but those that are will be worth the bars. How would it be a good idea to make neomaxes like Robert's and Kyo's take less bars? One is zero frame and the other can fry you from across the screen at the blink of an eye (both have invincibility as far as i can tell), same with Benimaru (remember that full screen Ex lighting into neomax juggle?). This is stuff you can't do with an exdm. So yeah, they all have their uses.

Yes, I'm sure that there is a few frames after the neomax before it hits. It might have a difference depending on distance though. I've activated it while the opponent is in the air, and they are able to land and block it. It might hit quicker if they are closer though.

Do me a favour and have a look at the very end of the last Beijing vid, the guy does a neomax finish with Iori. Doesn't look like there is much time to do any landing (not trying to be a dick btw, just curious).

[MUSOLINI]

As for EX DM, it's an awesome anti-air or great for catching people during an attack even at 3/4ths screen range. If I had a choice of which one to use (neomax or ex-DM) I would use EX DM, unless it's their last character. Sacrificing about 10% damage for another opportunity to do a non super HD combo is well worth it.

indeed.

and to diavle how is exdm overpowered? look closely, for 10% less damage (good eyes ash) you get a dm that has cvs2 style level 3 super priority and speed, and it costs 1 super stock less and 2 dc stocks, or full hd stock less. so even if the nm's had the same specs as exdm's, they still usually wouldnt be worth it for that 10% extra damage for all the other bars you sacrifice. just look at ash's reply as well, he saying exactly what i mean.

also overpowered, somebody (wasnt it you?) said nm's would be overpowered if they had been like exdm spec wise. how would they be overpowered if they only do 10% more damage but use up ALL THAT EXTRA BAR? if anything exdm's are overpowered going by that persons (again, wasnt it you or am i imagening things?) logic. cause they do a buckload of damage all for just 2 stocks of super, thats it. 40% gone, or close to it. most nm's do only 450 or something along those lines.

what you said doesnt make sense, some characters like iori, kim and robert as an example can do that punish full screen away with their ex dm's. kyo can roast you from full screen with nm? so can all these characters just as fast for almost the same damage but for all those stocks less with exdm.

[Diavle]

Its not just about damage, read my post.

How do you plan to roast someone with Kyo from across the screen with his exdm?

Roberts neomax is zero frame, do you know what that means? If they are in midst of anything other than block they are screwed. This means if they are attacking, jumping, walking, running, anything. Can his exdm do this?

[MUSOLINI]

i know, in your example kyo cant do a full screen punish unless he uses up all that bar. mu point? iori, kim, robert, ryo and a buckload of other characters can do it for only 2 bars of superstock. seeing how you sacrifice all that bar, it wouldnt have been unfair to give them that exdm spec.

[Diavle]

i know, in your example kyo cant do a full screen punish unless he uses up all that bar. mu point? iori, kim, robert, ryo and a buckload of other characters can do it for only 2 bars of superstock. seeing how you sacrifice all that bar, it wouldnt have been unfair to give them that exdm spec.

What do I, as a Kyo user, care about what Iori or Kim can do?

[MUSOLINI]

hmmm, your thickheaded man. we where talking about nm's being overpowered if they had the same specs as exdm's. not kyo perse.

[Diavle]

Robert's  neomax:
-instant startup
-invincibility
-instant recovery on block (remember a vid where a Duolon tried to punish with an exdm and failed)

How would that not be overpowered if it took just two powerbars and nothing more?

[Ash]

In th beginning and towards the middle of when we were playing KOF XIII you'll see neomaxess more often. But as everyone starts doing HD combos more consistently or long DC combos, you'll start seeing less neomaxes. In a match up if you're unable to create HD combo opportunities or long DC combos, you'll use neomax. If you can, you'll end up doing more damage in HD combos.

Power gauges charge up at a much faster rate than drive bar, so when you use a neomax, you'll have to think twice whether it's worth it or not.

And for Iori's neomax, it may seem like 0 frame in that vid, but believe me, there's a very small start up window. This is through experimentation of using it many many times as I've been using Iori since day 1. It's still damn good, but just pointing out it's not godly like Vice's.

[Diavle]

And for Iori's neomax, it may seem like 0 frame in that vid, but believe me, there's a very small start up window. This is through experimentation of using it many many times as I've been using Iori since day 1. It's still damn good, but just pointing out it's not godly like Vice's.

Thanks for the clear up.

What makes Vice's nm godly?

[Ash]

And for Iori's neomax, it may seem like 0 frame in that vid, but believe me, there's a very small start up window. This is through experimentation of using it many many times as I've been using Iori since day 1. It's still damn good, but just pointing out it's not godly like Vice's.

Thanks for the clear up.

What makes Vice's nm godly?

That's a real 0 frame. I remember seeing it hit where the opponent is about to touch the ground, where Iori's would miss. If a Neomax is faster than Iori's then yeah, it's that good.

[Kane317]

hmmm, your thickheaded man awesome! we where talking about nm's being overpowered if they had the same specs as exdm's. not kyo perse.

Let's keep the discussion civil, no personal attacks please.  I'm leaving this discussion here since it's somewhat related to what was seen in the vids.  If this becomes just a Ex DM vs NM discussion, I'll move it over to the general section (plus the general discussion thread is currently filled with another active discussion).

And for Iori's neomax, it may seem like 0 frame in that vid, but believe me, there's a very small start up window. This is through experimentation of using it many many times as I've been using Iori since day 1. It's still damn good, but just pointing out it's not godly like Vice's.

Iori's NM is pretty damn good, and this is coming from being on the receivng end from day 1 :P  I know Ash and I have had this discussion before, but I feel that Iori's NM is easily above average IMO.

...understand that exdm's are overpowered and use 1 super bar less and 2 full dc bars less to do while only doing 100 damage less. so as a punishment move using something like exdm will always be better, even if nm did have exdm properties, cause youd be losing another bar and full hd bar with it. it wouldnt be overpowered imo, far from it.

That's one perspective, or that NeoMaxes are underpowered/redundant.  Mentioned before, there are a few NMs that are fairly useful such as Ash's and DL's NM since they are command grabs especially against pesky defensive opponents, Goro and Liz's are counter NM's...and that's about it (maybe Vice's as well).  The rest of pretty much have better options for the meter management.

[Ash]

hmmm, your thickheaded man awesome! we where talking about nm's being overpowered if they had the same specs as exdm's. not kyo perse.

Let's keep the discussion civil, no personal attacks please.  I'm leaving this discussion here since it's somewhat related to what was seen in the vids.  If this becomes just a Ex DM vs NM discussion, I'll move it over to the general section (plus the general discussion thread is currently filled with another active discussion).

And for Iori's neomax, it may seem like 0 frame in that vid, but believe me, there's a very small start up window. This is through experimentation of using it many many times as I've been using Iori since day 1. It's still damn good, but just pointing out it's not godly like Vice's.

Iori's NM is pretty damn good, and this is coming from being on the receivng end from day 1 :P  I know Ash and I have had this discussion before, but I feel that Iori's NM is easily above average IMO.

Yeah it's a great neomax, just saying it's not insane like Vice's. Although spending the meter on HD combos, drive cancels, EX's are better for meter usage.

[Zabel]

but diavle, you do understand that exdm's are overpowered

Question to people that actually have the game, do you actually feel this way?

[Aenthin]

Not at all. I don't think I've seen an EX DM that actually feels overpowered. Take Terry for example. Sure EX Buster Wolf can pass through projectiles and all but EX Rising Tackle is probably more cost effective in terms of damage to power stock ratio. Some of them are practically just SDMs of older KoFs (Yagami's Ya Otome, Leona's V-Slasher, Mature's Nocturnal Rites, etc...), all of which I'm already used to by now.

[Ash]

Finally got our vid recording working. Check out a few of these combo videos that we did for testing. I actually accidently turned off audio in some of them =(

Chin - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOTHkYCJBFA&hd=1
Ralf - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ru3l5Xd1js&hd=1
Ash - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qv8SEd6E7k&hd=1
Benimaru - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox4yJ-TMaPw&hd=1