The NeoEmpire podcast opinions

[solidshark]

Listened to the NeoEmpire podcast recently where the topic was "Where the hell is XIII (console version)?"
It was a good discussion, and very opinionated; a thurough reminder of the polarization of the community, between those who think, '98/UM, '02/UM, XI or any other is the best. I heard that mostly out of Kusogaki. While he noted several things I agree with, some things he had to say about XIII just made me go "what?" (and a few other words). It's a little scary to think some expert to think that XIII might get treated like S/SFIV/AE - the current game of the franchise that brings the community together but is also considered inferior. Opinions vary, but I don't really think inferior when I see XIII. And maybe I'm taking Kusogaki's take on XIII a bit rough, but for those who've heard the podcast and played both XIII and 2k2/UM in particular, what do y'all think?

[Rex Dart]

Perhaps this is a good place for an all-purpose Podcast thread?

Anyway, if you haven't listened to it, Kane317 summarizes the pro-KOF XIII side quite nicely in Orochinagi's recent podcast:

http://orochinagi.com/2011/04/the-on-show-podcast-01

I was also a bit surprised by the negativity in the NeoEmpire podcast, but realize that "the best KOF" is always an enormously subjective thing. However, KOF XIII is, unquestionably, the KOF with the most mainstream appeal.

[desmond_kof]

Perhaps this is a good place for an all-purpose Podcast thread?

There is a podcast thread made by myself that is constantly updated with new shows, and a discussion thread made by Dark Geese in the KOF section:

http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=20.0

[Shiranui_ninja]

Perhaps this is a good place for an all-purpose Podcast thread?

Anyway, if you haven't listened to it, Kane317 summarizes the pro-KOF XIII side quite nicely in Orochinagi's recent podcast:

http://orochinagi.com/2011/04/the-on-show-podcast-01

I was also a bit surprised by the negativity in the NeoEmpire podcast, but realize that "the best KOF" is always an enormously subjective thing. However, KOF XIII is, unquestionably, the KOF with the most mainstream appeal.

It's a pretty interesting and entertaining podcast to hear.
For me, is not about 'the best kof'. Every kof has its own good things and its own personality. I think it's about future. Maybe 2002Um is better than XIII, but ignore XIII and just play 2002UM is like live in the past. Is like 'ok, snkp can disappear if they want, I don't care, I have all what I want, kof2002Um'. Kof XIII is the brand new instalment of the franchise, and if players want a future for KoF they have to support it. KOFXIII is just the beginning, but it can grow and be improved if there's a future. Look '94 and look '98. This is why I feel interested in KoFXIII because I want kof re-birth. Even with that low tier Mai, I will deal with it or just wait to they improve her in next title, giving my impressions in forums, but not quitting of XIII.

[KusoGaki]

Listened to the NeoEmpire podcast recently where the topic was "Where the hell is XIII (console version)?"
It was a good discussion, and very opinionated; a thurough reminder of the polarization of the community, between those who think, '98/UM, '02/UM, XI or any other is the best. I heard that mostly out of Kusogaki. While he noted several things I agree with, some things he had to say about XIII just made me go "what?" (and a few other words). It's a little scary to think some expert to think that XIII might get treated like S/SFIV/AE - the current game of the franchise that brings the community together but is also considered inferior. Opinions vary, but I don't really think inferior when I see XIII. And maybe I'm taking Kusogaki's take on XIII a bit rough, but for those who've heard the podcast and played both XIII and 2k2/UM in particular, what do y'all think?

Which parts made you 'what'? lol.

I'm not sure if you've read it but i have previously written my first impressions of XIII on my blog (here), and a short blurb about the podcast (here).

Of course as i have not had a great deal of time with XIII also (maybe 20 or so games total) it is difficult to form a solid opinion about the game.

From what i have played so far it is a good game spoiled by some things (for the most part glitches, Raiden, etc...). I actually quite like some parts of the system, it's the direction i had hoped the game would go after XII.

For the most part the problem with myself personally comparing the two games (preferences between the two), is that 02UM is accessable now and is familiar enough for me to understand (for the most part) what is going on.

I don't think that XIII has gone to the extreme of some of the newer fighting games (come back systems, etc) but when you look at the perspective of difficulty in terms of high damage combos (or landing them) i think 02UM had it right and that XIII veers in between the fine line of whether some combos might be a bit too easy.

When the game comes out and i get more access to learning it of course my opinion of it may change, but for now out of the two my preference is with 02UM.

Also the thing with 02UM is there is so much to learn within that game i think that i could play it for a long time to come.

As for the game overall i think (and hope) that it will do well in the West, i have heard people are playing 02UM over XIII in Asia, but i think XIII has a lot more 'appeal' compared to the older games.

[solidshark]

Which parts made you 'what'? lol.

I'm not sure if you've read it but i have previously written my first impressions of XIII on my blog (here), and a short blurb about the podcast (here).

Of course as i have not had a great deal of time with XIII also (maybe 20 or so games total) it is difficult to form a solid opinion about the game.

From what i have played so far it is a good game spoiled by some things (for the most part glitches, Raiden, etc...). I actually quite like some parts of the system, it's the direction i had hoped the game would go after XII.

For the most part the problem with myself personally comparing the two games (preferences between the two), is that 02UM is accessable now and is familiar enough for me to understand (for the most part) what is going on.

I don't think that XIII has gone to the extreme of some of the newer fighting games (come back systems, etc) but when you look at the perspective of difficulty in terms of high damage combos (or landing them) i think 02UM had it right and that XIII veers in between the fine line of whether some combos might be a bit too easy.

When the game comes out and i get more access to learning it of course my opinion of it may change, but for now out of the two my preference is with 02UM.

Also the thing with 02UM is there is so much to learn within that game i think that i could play it for a long time to come.

As for the game overall i think (and hope) that it will do well in the West, i have heard people are playing 02UM over XIII in Asia, but i think XIII has a lot more 'appeal' compared to the older games.

The part that made me go what was probably "I've been waiting for a good kof since '98." I know most kof players might have that opinion, it was just a reminder of how I might be one of the few who even likes the "bad" ones, like '01 or XII.

I'll have to do my own assessment when the game actually comes out, but from the videos I've seen, it feels like XIII gets underestimated because most of who you see is K', Raiden, Elizabeth, Kula, Shen, and most of the rest of the cast falls by the wayside, and I can tell from some videos that in the right hands and with the XIII systems, the entire cast can do some great damage (Kane's Chin or Infinite's Duo for example)

02UM is really a great game, which I'll still play even if XIII really gains popularity in the West, but like Kane mentioned in one recent podcast, some characters are really favored by the 02UM system in XIII, and others are kind of just there. How most if not everyone can take equal advantage of XIII's systems (from what I've seen), gives a lot of characters the chance to dominate or just be played. When I went through a peliminary run of characters in 02UM, I could tell there were characters that I probably wouldn't be going back to outside of random, and not just because they weren't my style.

One thing I'll give you about 02UM that I forgot to mention before is how you can tell the skillset of a player based on what they can perform. Things I'm still trying to do that I've seen other pull off flawlessly does show a clearer level of skill. You're certainly right that there's a lot to learn in 02UM (glad to hear Foxy was actually getting some high(er) level play), but I hope most people don't read into what you said about 'how many actual different characters in the game, between the ones with the fireballs/anti-air or grapplers' (paraphrasing you) and dismiss some characters as being too similar.

I'm hoping and thinking XIII will have almost as much depth as something like 02UM has based off of the EX abilities, and some of the things we've been hearing from JPN players (different block-stuns for most characters), but like you, I'm waiting to see too.

[Kane317]

I finally finished the whole podcast (several driving trips, plug in the good old Jawbone--beats radio IMO).

I really gave what our European friends discussed some thought:  If we did not have XIII, at least this socal group, would we be playing 2k2UM as much as they do?  I don't know, it's hard to answer that question.  We played a ton of '98UM, and when 2k2UM came out on the ps2 (Japanese) we played that for about 3 weeks and dropped it.  It certainly wasn't because it was a bad game or anything.  I think partially it was to do with AI coming out with a 2k2UM road to revenge and having some changes different from the console, but partly because...it just felt like if you mastered the BC combos the other characters just feel boring.  Sure they can be competitive, but it just feels like you're not really utilizing the complete system/mechanics that SNKP intended 2k2UM to be played for---hence it really favored a handful of characters.

I'm not going to lie, 2k2UM probably has the most depth compared to most kofs, certainly one of the largest rosters but like I've mentioned many times before you just feel like everyone has a chance in XIII especially with the introduction of the Ex moves.  There's also a fair bit of strategy in XIII that I've never really considered in the older ones, at least not to this degree, and that's meter management.  Trying to keep an eye on both drive and meter/stock bar is challenging in a heated battle.  Should I go for the 1 drive 1 stock combo or should I just use stocks for supers (and now Ex) and save up for HD.  It's crazy coz you can have someone like 4leaf's Shen who almost always goes for HD combos whereas (until recently) I would always go for drive combos instead for the quick damage--that's where XIII's gameplay really shines and the variety is still there while staying competitive at the same time.

All in all, I think it's a great podcast and I like hearing different perspective and I think, if I were them, I may just feel the same way so it's hard to judge.  It ain't easy being a fan and having to wait that long--we here at SoCal are just so spoiled.

One last thing about the ambiguous crossover shenanigans in XIII: it's not as bad as they make it out to be, and it's still very playable and you get used to it.  Some characters tend to trigger it more than others and I've notice that Beni and Yuri seem to do so more than others but you can still block it, you just have to really pay attention to where they land now.

[desmond_kof]

To be honest, BC aren't the heart of 2002UM. A lot of them are really useless and are simply for flash. Some simple BC combos (or just ones in max mode) or more practical than others.