The I love or hate XII

[nilcam]

Fair warning: This thread is flame bait. I will allow it to exist as the opposite of my I love XII thread. HOWEVER, this foolishness of calling people a fanboy because they like a game you don't is not cool and I won't tolerate more of it than is already in this thread. Members WILL treat each other with respect. Bottom line. If you disagree, discuss it logically or simply move on. How good or bad a game is is completely subjective and all members here are allowed to voice their opinion.

[KBlackNoah]

If you want to be logical about it to someone that "loves" XII they will say  - Hey, i enjoy it so that makes it a good game.

This game has no moves, a handfull of combos most of them mediocre and the only way to make a decent "combo" is with that clash system.The mechanics are so bad you can't connect shit.Only a few characters are close to complete and let's say decent.Just that you like a game doesn't make it good.All the kof community put a well deserved stamp on it - "Shit" and moved on.If you enjoy mediocre titles it's your problem - but if you realy don't have anything better to do but defent this garbage at least have 1 good reason besides i like this game bla bla.Personally i aint gonna commentate anymore about XII because there is  XIII on the way and it deserves more attention.


Fanboy = A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not + an arrogant person who goes into an outburst every time something he likes is questioned.. just so you know why i put this stamp on all people defending (and not liking) KOF XII.You can like anything without the need to demonstarate nothing to anyone - but calling something good just because you like it is fanboysm - check SRK.

[SAB-CA]

I'd say, XII was a nice start, but it never got to grow. The movesets might have shrunk, but they were no smaller than such things from other fighitng games. The game has 20+ redesigned sprites out of the box, almost unheard of for a 2D game, especially one with good animation. The lighting tech was also very well done, showing off techniques that very few released 2D fighters have (and only 1 approaching, in Skullgirls).

One bonus point I'll add for "why I liked the comboable/Chargeable CDs" that everyone else has said one place or another: It was a great way to start juggles, expecially for characters who never had such a tool before. I think it was a great answer to "how do we make corners feel dangerous, while giving a game a widescreen size and presentation?"

I even wish some characters got to keep the functionality of Combo CDs, as maybe a new command normal for them. it felt great being able to combo into Baltic Launcher with Leona. Would have loved seeing it become a method to combo into air supers with certain characters. Could you imagine the kinda tricks characters like Yashiro, Billy Kane, Hinako, or Yamazaki would have been able to pull with such a tool? Or what new tools would have been developed for other characters, to take advantage of it?

Clashing, as well, also had it's place. I really wish Terry could still Burn Knuckle into projectiles. What if Yamazaki could gather energy to turn his Double Return into an honest projectile, by clashing his other moves into opponents fireballs? What if Rugal could clash with a fireball while doing his Godpress, in order to power it up, on his way to you? How cool would specials that were MADE to clash have been? Rewarding new properties for pro-actively facing fireballs, rather than running away...

It was also nice to see Garou's counter hit spin back in another game. I really felt like that helped make up for weird hop timing/hitstun... (which wasn't that bad anywho... hop times changed between 98 and 2002 also, but that doesn't mean I think one or the other is suddenly horrible.)

It was a "groundwork" game. A Samurai Shodown III to a SamSho IV. A KoF 97 to 98. A Fatal Fury 3 to the Real Bout series. It kinda diverge from it's own ideas, and grew into XIII, which we wouldn't have had without it. But it's different enough to become a basis for a Dream Match, a UM, or even it's own series, in the future.

It also never bothers me, because I purchased it in order to get in on the fun that Europe, Japan, and the AI guys had been showing for months. It did exactly that. The amount of quaters I might have spend in a few days at the arcade covers the cost of the game, and I ended up getting months of play out of it, and even occassionally get some now.

And every company had their "ultimately crappy 1st outing" on a "next gen" system, in order to get situated to the new hardware. They often had rough feature-sets, lacked extras, or had poor/non-existant online, which would have NEVER been acceptable for their second or 3rd times out on the hardware. The biggest issue? SNKP go their game like that out in 2009, while everyone else did it in 2005 or 2006. Very unfortunate, but not unprecidented.

So, in the end, it's not something anyone should be so hurt by, that they have to insult the others who could see the potential in it, or enjoy the new ideas it gave them. It didn't have the legs we would have liked, but products like that are often produced when developers are overly-ambitious, underpaid, understaffed, or all of the above. It boils down to being a minor sacrifice, when you see what we ended up getting out of it, and what it's framework helped prototype for the future.

[Rex Dart]

Might be interesting to bring some numbers to play here. Looking back at the KOF poll posted in the main XIII thread, there have now been 420 responses.

KOF XII does have the dubious distinction of being the most disliked KOF game. 45.5% of respondents marked it as one of their least-enjoyed. (Follow-ups: 2001 @ 35%, MI @ 33.8%, and 2003 @ 32.9%.)

I think part of the reason for this is because hopes were very high for the game, and the disappointment is still very fresh in people's minds. However, that's still less than half of respondents saying they don't like the game, so that's not quite "all the KOF community" as KBlack asserts.

Also, KOF XII is NOT the least liked KOF game. 15.7% marked it as a KOF they enjoyed. This means it has more fans than 94Re-Bout (15.2%), 2001 (14.8%), 2003 (14.5%), NeoWave (11.2%) and MI (9.3%). Obviously, every KOF has its fans, and I would never begrudge anyone who liked playing them. For me, even the worst KOF game is better than half the other fighters out there.

@KBlack: If saying something is good because you like it is fanboyism, then saying something is shit because you dislike it is trolling. Check SRK.

OT: This topic probably shouldn't be stickied.

[KBlackNoah]

@KBlack: If saying something is good because you like it is fanboyism, then saying something is shit because you dislike it is trolling. Check SRK.

My dislikenes is based on arguments.I don't say i dislike this period.I dislike this because it has nothing to do with kof besides the characters.KOF is the main series i played since i discovered fighting games (and i didn't mind when snk fooled around with characters because with every game we had something new but familliar ...well except 2003 but that is 10 times better than XII) - KOF XII took all of that and trown it in the garbage can .... what can i say Thank you Playmore!? With 13 it seems they redeemed themselves but i'll keep my toughts on that until i see the port.

Keep your sarcasm to yourself.

ps:Who cares about pools on internet? and as a matter of fact they are the least accurate source of information.

[desmond_kof]

KBlackNoah, you REALLY need to learn how to respect peoples opinions. You are NOT respecting people opinions at all, and you are being extremely disrespectful to people here. Yes, there are people that like KOFXII for whatever reasons but that doesn't give you the right to call them names and insult their intelligence. You are pretty much making a big deal out of other peoples opinions (which I am curious on why you care about them so much), and that is not cool.

[KBlackNoah]

Fanboy is not a insult and i didn't disrespected anyone.If so give me an example.My comments may be acid but i am a well mannered person.

[desmond_kof]

Fanboy is not a insult and i didn't disrespected anyone.If so give me an example

If you do not know that you are being out of line then that is your problem. I am simply saying that you should seriously reevaluate some of the things that you posting towards the members here. You post here thinking that your opinion is fact when it truly isn't (no duh) and attacking those whose opinion differ from those by calling them fanboys (yes an INSULT to whomever takes it that way). If people don't like the damn game, you shouldn't give a fuck.

Do not get me wrong it is okay to express how you feel, but you should not attack or talk down to those who feel differently than you.

[KBlackNoah]

fanboys (yes an INSULT to whomever takes it that way).

I wrote in a post earlier what i mean by fanboy.i ain't gonna write all that when i can simply say fanboy.If anyone takes that as an insult it's their problem.I also stated that i respect personal opinions about stuff.But when personal opinions aka statements are used as arguments it's silly.You are right tho that this discussion is nonsense... but i am a little bored right now waiting for someone LOL

When Dune comes at EVO ask him why didn't he made some Duelling the kof with XII - i am sure he will give you a look of disgust ) stay free and have a nice day

[desmond_kof]

I wrote in a post earlier what i mean by fanboy.i ain't gonna write all that when i can simply say fanboy.If anyone takes that as an insult it's their problem.I also stated that i respect personal opinions about stuff.

Well if you know and predict that people may take what you say as insulting, then why say it in the first place?

Also, saying something and actually doing something are two different things.

When Dune comes at EVO ask him why didn't he made some Duelling the kof with XII - i am sure he will give you a look of disgust ) stay free and have a nice day

Remember, I am not talking about KOFXII and why it is a bad or good game, I am talking about you and how you come across to people here. Please respect that.

[Rex Dart]

This game has no moves

You seem to be hung up on the lack of moves. I would argue that a large movelist is not a prerequisite for a fun game. Street Fighter 2 and Fatal Fury Special are both great fighting games, and I'd suspect the average character has fewer specials in that than in XII. Now, some might say, "But those are OLD games. They were fun a long time ago, but they're not anymore!" But then again, lots of gamers say the same thing about 2D fighters in general, so I don't think that argument is worth responding to.

Surely you can agree that SNKP had to re-start the KOF series at some point, right? The series was never going to expand outside its already small fanbase without appealing to a new audience. Yes, it's superficial, but lots of people game XII a second a look that they wouldn't have given to 2002UM or XI.

Basically, there was no way for KOF to ever reach a newer audience without totally revamping its look, and drawing twenty HD sprites took a long ass time. XII was in development for four years, which I believe is the longest in SNKP's history. There was never any chance that each character was going to carry over ALL the moves they'd gained over the course of 10 NeoGeo games. Like it or not, the cost of a KOF with all-new graphics is a smaller roster with smaller movelists.

Of course, more moves would be nice, but it's not everything. I was happy with a fun, well-balanced game.

[Running Wild]

You know what I love?  When you said "The game would still have zero content, crap netcode, tiny roster with majorly gimped characters." you know what they also call that?  Marvel VS Capcom 3.  That game has zero content, horrible netcode, and several gimped characters, yet that still goes on.

I don't like MvC3 (Gameplay Reasons), but MvC3 has way more content than 12. It has a full arcade mode with a final boss, a great training mode, a trial mode, challenge modes, the netcode is way better than KOF12, a good sized rooster for a team based fighter, and every single character in the game has a full, functional, complete, moveset with multiple supers. KOF12 has none of that.

How long did you play KOF XII?  Just curious.  And Garou?  That series is dead.  It was never a big seller and Mark of the Wolves bombed. And the only reason most people like that game is because it's the most capcom style newer game that SNK made.

1. I played KOF12 for exactly 2 days before I said "Fuck it, this game sucks". Then I went back to playing BlazBlue Calamity Trigger, a way more fun fighting game.
2. Garou may be dead, and never a big seller, but it was one of the few SNK fighters that was widely well received and still loved by many, not to mention it still see's competitive play alongside 98 and 2k2.
3. I don't think it's because the game is "Capcom Style" (Wtf is Capcom style about running, hops, guard cancels, break moves, feint cancels, etc?), but rather because it managed to create a bunch of new cool characters and had great gameplay sub-systems, solid controls, etc.

drawing twenty HD sprites took a long ass time.

Uhhh... KOF12/13's sprites atre not high definition. They never were. They are the same resolution as Guilty Gear X sprites.

[Rex Dart]

Uhhh... KOF12/13's sprites at no high definition. They never were. They are the same resolution as Guilty Gear X sprites.

They're sprites drawn for an HD game. Tomato, tomahto. :P

[a11111357]

drawing twenty HD sprites took a long ass time.

Uhhh... KOF12/13's sprites at no high definition. They never were. They are the same resolution as Guilty Gear X sprites.

But they were made in different ways.You will see the difference after comparing their color gradients.

[Running Wild]

SNK's sprites contain alot more shading and are animated better, but they aren't HD, and still smaller than Guilty Gear.

I think if SNK spent less time trying to shade their sprites at such a ridiculous level and go for something a bit more simple and less pixelated looking, they could of spent more time beefing up each characters arsenal of moves and giving them alot more animations overall.