Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => General Discussion => Topic started by: Giby on January 27, 2011, 06:07:04 AM
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I'm sure this news doesn't surprise anyone, but I've been trying to get the game into Evo for the past 3-4 months. Everything Wizard asked me we tried to get done, but SNKP was being very distant. They were warming up to the idea at first, but for some strange reason they stopped around late Dec/early Jan. I've had backing from several players in the scene with this, but again, none of that mattered since SNKP didn't seem to want to do anything about this. So I'll say this again, since some people aren't all too bright: Don't bash, or hate the Evo staff for excluding SNK games, Wizard wanted it in, he tried to get something from SNKP, but obviously he didn't hear anything from them. All we can do now is support XIII by holding tourneys for it at majors, and keep trying to get new people to play so we can build some momentum before Evo.
Since we know this is over, I've been planning on a side tourney since last year, Noc The Answer and I pretty much decided one if not all of us would do it when we were on our way home from Evo. It will be on PS3, and it has a possibility of making it on the main stage for the finals, as long as it gets enough people to enter. So if you plan on attending Evo, be sure to keep an eye out for the tourney. I will be making a thread about it on multiple forums trying to get people to sign up. I would like to get people to sign up online somehow to make things run smoother, so we'll see how that goes.
*edit - all this rides on whether or not SNKP stills plans on releasing the game in the next few months. I don't want to lug taito boards to Evo :/
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Thanks Giby, really appreciate all the work you and Wiz are puttin' in.
I hope we're not boned as far as it goes for a console release in the next few months because that's my main driving force for going to EVO this year (and maybe AH3/2002UM). Welp time to start passing info around some game publishing/localising forums like Atlus.
:/
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Wow that really sucks, we appreciate your efforts on putting this game on the line up. Do you have to get a permission from SNKP?
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I'll be there and for sure will play 98 2002 and 13
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This is a confirmation that playmore will not release kof 13 on consoles anytime soon.pffff
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Expected really since the vast majority of people don't have access to it and there has been zero word of a console port.
Even if it does get ported in time there is still not enough time for ppl to get good at it to have a decent turnout/showing.
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which is funny considering than friggin MK3 will be there, the game will be played at 2 months of being released?
But yeah, I don't know why I had the theory than SNKP didn't wanted to show the game fearing all the backlash that will be there with all the dropkick festival present
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which is funny considering than friggin MK3 will be there, the game will be played at 2 months of being released?
But yeah, I don't know why I had the theory than SNKP didn't wanted to show the game fearing all the backlash that will be there with all the dropkick festival present
it's actually MK9 bro.......
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lol, I mixed mk9 with mvc3, fucking m!
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Expected really since the vast majority of people don't have access to it and there has been zero word of a console port.
Even if it does get ported in time there is still not enough time for ppl to get good at it to have a decent turnout/showing.
Good point, by the time EVO comes (07/29-07/31) there would be people with 1 year of experience facing people with 0-a few weeks of experience.
Would this be fair? Should we consider rescheduling for next year?
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although i hate fighting game tournaments i am rooting for KoF XIII to be in evo for now i just want snkp to take there time with the game
and something tells me MK is only there for the lulz
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If 2k2UM is a way to prepare for XIII, then it really shouldn't be too bad... Granted, there might not be much in terms of max damage combos, or other things that pertain to XIII strictly, but the fundamentals should be substantial to compete at a close-to-high (if not high) level...
Plus, there's tons of info on this game already, from combo vids, and the wiki, and threads with people breaking things down... I'm not saying that all of that doesn't beat actually playing the game to see how things work, but they should be stepping stones...
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If 2k2UM is a way to prepare for XIII, then it really shouldn't be too bad... Granted, there might not be much in terms of max damage combos, or other things that pertain to XIII strictly, but the fundamentals should be substantial to compete at a close-to-high (if not high) level...
Plus, there's tons of info on this game already, from combo vids, and the wiki, and threads with people breaking things down... I'm not saying that all of that doesn't beat actually playing the game to see how things work, but they should be stepping stones...
2k2UM or XII does NOT help in any way to prepare you for XIII other than the fundamentals if that.
Knowing KOF fundamentals will not help you compete on high level matchs, I think that an average US player can read every single wiki, guide, post, strategy, and watch tons of match vids but unless they have a minimum of 3-6 months of ACTUAL GOOD QUALITY game play, they wont be able to beat the weakest of the weakest AI player at EVO.
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And that is the reason why there are so many more stream players watching than actually playing. Reading and looking up all the info is pretty much worthless if you don't show up and play and test things out for yourself.
Because remember, one thing that wikis, guides and videos do not tell you is how to play the character you choose with the way you play the game.
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I'll be there and for sure will play 98 2002 and 13
Word? Hell I should go just for some good sets in 2002UM.
Good point, by the time EVO comes (07/29-07/31) there would be people with 1 year of experience facing people with 0-a few weeks of experience.
Would this be fair? Should we consider rescheduling for next year?
If there's no console release by early April (unlikely) then we might as well settle for a side tourney, it's better than nothing I guess. The problem is if there's no console release by EVO (or anywhere within a 2~3 month radius) would yall still be cool bringing a Taito board all the way up there if yall could?
:/
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2k2UM or XII does NOT help in any way to prepare you for XIII other than the fundamentals if that.
Knowing KOF fundamentals will not help you compete on high level matchs, I think that an average US player can read every single wiki, guide, post, strategy, and watch tons of match vids but unless they have a minimum of 3-6 months of ACTUAL GOOD QUALITY game play, they wont be able to beat the weakest of the weakest AI player at EVO.
Well, the 3-6 month estimation might be slightly exaggerated. As long as they have good competition locally, console players can catch up real quick. In the beginning, it was impossible to get on training mode for the first 2 months at AI. Also, factor in they have access to the game a lot more than we did (versus us sitting thru 45-75 mins of traffic) I think 3 months is a healthy time frame to be competitive. Although, nothing can replace experience though.
As for the weakest player at AI, lol, you're putting on a lot of pressure for me to perform well man haha.
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If 2k2UM is a way to prepare for XIII, then it really shouldn't be too bad... Granted, there might not be much in terms of max damage combos, or other things that pertain to XIII strictly, but the fundamentals should be substantial to compete at a close-to-high (if not high) level...
Plus, there's tons of info on this game already, from combo vids, and the wiki, and threads with people breaking things down... I'm not saying that all of that doesn't beat actually playing the game to see how things work, but they should be stepping stones...
2k2UM or XII does NOT help in any way to prepare you for XIII other than the fundamentals if that.
Knowing KOF fundamentals will not help you compete on high level matchs, I think that an average US player can read every single wiki, guide, post, strategy, and watch tons of match vids but unless they have a minimum of 3-6 months of ACTUAL GOOD QUALITY game play, they wont be able to beat the weakest of the weakest AI player at EVO.
I do believe that there's a difference between 'knowing something' and 'applying something', so I'm not all about watching match vids or whatever and saying that I'm good at a game I haven't even played (same goes for VF5:Final Showdown, and other games to hit the pike in the "near" future). I was under the impression that the majority of what I come across (and read) with regards to 2k2UM is that its "similar to XIII" so for some cats who can't get to an arcade (due to time, money, etc) they can "get ready" for XIII through this game...
Sure, it won't totally "prepare" you per sé, but what does in that aspect??? T5DR didn't prepare for T6, 3S to SF4, the list goes on... But with fundamentals, you can become at least a little solid... I probably didn't mean "high-level", but competitive to a degree at least... Iunno...
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As for the weakest player at AI, lol, you're putting on a lot of pressure for me to perform well man haha.
didn't we already go over this, Kane? lol
also, i think The Answer is being a little pessimistic about newcomers to XIII who've had experience with older games. sure, it doesn't perfectly translate with the new game mechanics and updated movelists, but i think that fundmentals and experience with the series gives them a good groundwork for getting their head around the game. i've seen randoms come and play XIII at AI and, you can tell from their play style that they main the older titles, they do fairly well. rushdown, corner pressure, defensive manuevers have been pretty similar throughout the years, so i wouldn't discount older titles as being helpful in a minimal sort of way. at the very least, it's a good way to transition from whatever franchise a new player might be used to. then, once understanding of combat flow is established, they can work on the more detailed aspects of XIII's game system. of course, i agree that if XIII is on hand, by all means play it, but us AI folks can't/shouldn't have the elitist mindset. we are very fortunate, i believe, to have a cab as long as we've had it while most of the country (and even the world, for that matter) doesn't have access to the game. understand that people want to play this game, they just don't have the means for it. nothing wrong with the older titles in the meantime as long as you don't cling to them.
on topic though, it's good that giby is pushing for XIII (pending its release) regardless if it's an official game at EVO or not. i hope that if it's within anyone's power to go support this that they do so. at the minimum you could always BYOC and throw something together.
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They were warming up to the idea at first, but for some strange reason they stopped around late Dec/early Jan.
Maybe coz the new president?
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I'm not beign negative, I'm being realistic. We can have a mediocre tournament this year and kill our chances for next year or hold on and wait for people to get the game, really practice, catch up to the rest of the country (Cali) and then really put on a show.
It's been ten fucking years that we get no type of love from EVO because one thing or the another Mr.Wizard has repetedly said that he will have the finals for the best side tournaments on the big state and live stream. This is what's going to happen:
Top 4
1. AI player
2. AI player
3. AI player
4. AI player
and then people are going to be like fuck this shit was rigged, why so and so where seeded, blah, blah, blah, and there goes our chances for being on the big stage or on next year's lineup.
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but has AI's players have always done good tournament wise in KoF games anyways right? I mean it looks like the right locations are starting to pick up XIII,CTF, all over Cali, Texas, usual contenders. and I believe as long as the top 4 put up a great performance that's all that's gonna matter. Now it would probably be more hype if top 4 weren't all AI players, but who knows man shit happens it's a tournament people could get knocked out( physically due to hype levels) haha. Honestly who gives a shit if people think its rigged, we use tournaments as proving ground to display the best talent there is the bottom line, and as long as that gets accomplished that's all that matter, your are playing talented players from one of the best training grounds kof in the U.S. that have had the game months ahead of everyone else shit could happen no matter what timeline
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reasons why kof is not at evo
1. It's not on PS3
2. For Playmore there is nothing to win.They could use this tournament to advertise their eventual console port and boost their sales.But they don't have a console port ... so why bother...everybody knows how the game looks like so let's say they would donate or sponsor the tournament with board+game ... it's not going to boost up their sales for KOF XIII arcade games - not to mention that the quality of the tournament would be below average and will not make good marketing for a later console port..and again why should they bother when they don't have something to sell
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all over Cali
WHOA, MAN!! I fricken WISH!! Nor Cal ain't got shit :( I actually spoke with the manager of Sunnyvale GolfLand a while ago and he said that it wouldn't be worth the investment to get it... Yet they go out and get BB:CS and SSFIV:AE right as they drop... I personally think that more niche KoF players would come out of the woodwork to play XIII than BB and SF fans would go out to play those games. ( I for one would go at LEAST five days a week )
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I'm not beign negative, I'm being realistic. We can have a mediocre tournament this year and kill our chances for next year or hold on and wait for people to get the game, really practice, catch up to the rest of the country (Cali) and then really put on a show.
It's been ten fucking years that we get no type of love from EVO because one thing or the another Mr.Wizard has repetedly said that he will have the finals for the best side tournaments on the big state and live stream. This is what's going to happen:
Top 4
1. AI player
2. AI player
3. AI player
4. AI player
and then people are going to be like fuck this shit was rigged, why so and so where seeded, blah, blah, blah, and there goes our chances for being on the big stage or on next year's lineup.
I think you clearly underestimate some KOF players in the US. I mean in XII I beat almost every AI player online that I played against and the only one I couldn't beat was you. Just ask Nate how good the KOF players are in the Northwest.
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Are you seriously trying to use XII online as a measure of skill?
And yeah while we have strong players up here Sytha, Alex (Not sure if he still plays though, haven't seen him in awhile*, and all the random Koreans I seriously doubt they would beat the AI players due to lack of exposure to XIII.
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The top 10 players in the Northwest for KOF are:
1:Billy
2:Jason (Taiwanese player)
3:BBH
4:Me (Kusanagi Style)
5:Gene
6:Johnathan
7:Hellsap
8:Sytha
9:FMR
10:Anthony
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Wait what?!?!?
Kusanagi Style please read my previous post and the thread before you make a post. I clearly said that people will need more exposure to the game, I never commented on people's skills.
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I'm not beign negative, I'm being realistic. We can have a mediocre tournament this year and kill our chances for next year or hold on and wait for people to get the game, really practice, catch up to the rest of the country (Cali) and then really put on a show.
It's been ten fucking years that we get no type of love from EVO because one thing or the another Mr.Wizard has repetedly said that he will have the finals for the best side tournaments on the big state and live stream. This is what's going to happen:
Top 4
1. AI player
2. AI player
3. AI player
4. AI player
and then people are going to be like fuck this shit was rigged, why so and so where seeded, blah, blah, blah, and there goes our chances for being on the big stage or on next year's lineup.
Give me 2-3 months of playing this game in Mexico and watch me rank right along with you guys hahahaa. Remember Nouveau Defi Prologue 2009 with me putting Mr. KOF in Losers?
I only had about 2-3 months of playing KOFXII against people I was beating in Mexico all the time!!!
Again, don't say I can't, I got to Winners Finals vs. Reynald in El Paso...(all in the good, healthy spirit of competition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68FLVq3kAYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btJ7ruovn3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i3NNmwrjsA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGUENNcnsl8
Top 4 for KOFXII that particular tournament were:
1. Reynald
2. Mr. KOF
3. Me
4. RJ
Basically guys I totally understand what Oscar is saying. He's saying in a pretty nice way compared to how it COULD be said that we have to make sure we are ready if we hold a tournament in the US in KOFXIII and the WORLD watches. If not then I'm telling you guys like I have been telling you guys for a long time since I have been running the EVO World SNK series, people are going to laugh at us around the world. Also now with me travelling and seeing the different levels of skill around the world it's hard for me not to see the perspective of these other countries.
So I am going to take what Oscar is saying and expand that to an international perspective. I am going to go even further than what Oscar is saying.
Bottom line is give me 2 months of playing vs. people in Mexico/Kula and the EVO results for console KOF13 will come down to:
1. AI/Japan/Mexico/Me.
And if the people in the USA see a 60 man tournament with only 7-10 people knowing how to play, that will NOT help our chances with it going mainstream! If the people around the world see that they are going to wonder WHY DID WE BOTHER? I know I would and thats what I am saying. We can't take chances to screw this one up guys, we really can't. We need to make sure you guys get with the program if we as Americans want ANY type of respect not only around the world, but the chance for KOF in our country to go mainstream!
Also Oscar isn't questioning you guys skill, but I AM. I do question the skill level of you guys because I do not think I should be able to pick a game up and in 2-3 months be able to beat the majority of the United States when there are others that have been playing the game longer than me!
Also the inexposure thing can be an excuse if you let it! I didn't have anyone really to play on my level yet I was able to hang with Mr.KOF in KOFXII but you guys in Oregon are saying you wouldn't be able to hang with the AI players?
Something is terribly wrong here and this may be brash but I feel it needs to be addressed on the ENTIRE USA level. I comment in my podcast many many times on what would help SOLVE this problem (hint TRAVELLING).
We are tired of carrying the US SNK scene just ourselves basically, why does everything come down in the USA to me and AI?
This needs to change basically or to me it is not worth my time attending! (Hence I would bring Mexico to come or SOMETHING to stir up the pot! AI players would go to play Japan and others like myself that they don't play all the time THAT THEY FEEL ARE GOING TO PUSH THEM otherwise they WON'T GO!!!!!!!)
I am sorry guys but I simply find that to be unacceptable. This HAS to change if we have any hope of anything else happening or mark my words final results are going to come down to:
AI vs. Dark Geese vs. Mexico vs. Japan/Asia.
Where are the rest of you guys????
Not in the running. It may sound harsh guys but this is what EVO with KOF13 is going to boil down to. While that sounds fun on paper, to me it is NOT. I'd rather the level across the board be similar instead of seeing those results. If those are going to be the results I don't see a reason mainly to even go to EVO, if I wanna play AI guess what? I'll go to AI! (I'm sure Mr. KOF feels the same way as do a lot of them if they are going to leave their place to play talent, what's in it for them? Why leave their place of skill to play substantially LESS SKILLED PLAYERS???????? )
If I wanna play Mexico guess what? I'll go to Mexico!
To add onto that, if those are going to be the results then I feel a change of location needs to happen, we can make those results happen in many variations in a BETTER location (Mexico!) with more SKILL across the board of similar levels!
Thus again bottom line is it would still come down to AI vs. DG vs. Mexico vs. Japan (whoever we bring from Japan/Asia), but the skill level across the board will be about 100x better.
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who knows what the future holds you don't know who will rise up from the south.
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AI vs. Dark Geese vs. Mexico vs. Japan/Asia.
Where are the rest of you guys????
Waiting for the game to come out for consoles?
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AI vs. Dark Geese vs. Mexico vs. Japan/Asia.
Where are the rest of you guys????
Waiting for the game to come out for consoles?
Yeah that's true, I can only cross my fingers and hope that in 1 year's time there will be a closer balance of skill level in 13 (as well as the rest of the KOFs) than it is right now... Regardless of personal rivalries, when we represent OUR COUNTRY, we have to as a whole be VERY VERY STRONG, it can't be well, the haves and have NOTS. (In regards to skill)
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Things getting a little wound up in here. Gonna keep an eye on this thread.
For the record, Oscar and DG's opinions are just that-- they don't speak for all us AI players. :)
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Well i am Starting to get the hang of kof 13 and the whole move cancel thing going. But i will try to get to the AI players level just because I kept getting neomax back then lol.
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AI vs. Dark Geese vs. Mexico vs. Japan/Asia.
Where are the rest of you guys????
Waiting for the game to come out for consoles?
Yeah that's true, I can only cross my fingers and hope that in 1 year's time there will be a closer balance of skill level in 13 (as well as the rest of the KOFs) than it is right now... Regardless of personal rivalries, when we represent OUR COUNTRY, we have to as a whole be VERY VERY STRONG, it can't be well, the haves and have NOTS. (In regards to skill)
Ok, well when we face you later this year, we will show you. If not in 13, than the other KOFs...
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Great Desmond, that's what I wanna hear! *Clap* There needs to be MORE people like Desmond that are willing to step up to the bar like that! That's what we need, more Leaders LESS followers!
Kane- No need to worry trust me on that, we all will make sure things go along respectfully. But yeah me and Oscar don't speak for everyone, everyone has their own opinions etc.
But I also don't just want there to be just like 3 places to get good in KOF you know what I mean Desmond? I want it to be more than just my place, AI, Minnesota, and some parts of New York you know what I mean!
In a nutshell all I am saying is that if we want to be strong as a NATION when other people from other countries come over and we don't want things to boil down to the same results, then we need many different locations people can get strong at KOF at!
3-4 locations maybe 5 simply isn't gonna cut it guys!!!
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We are tired of carrying the US SNK scene just ourselves basically, why does everything come down in the USA to me and AI?
I don't mean no harm, but aren't you carrying the scene in Mexico??? I thought you gave up on the US...
And if its just you cats carrying a scene by yourselves, find some cats to carry the torch or something... I'm not saying you're not, but I mean that's what it sounds like, and I'm not knocking nothing that's been done thus far, but I get the "high and mighty" feeling from reading some of that stuff man... And if you do pass the torch to dedicated homies, then my bad...
I'm no "pro" (whatever that means now-a-days) but I know I try to stay on top of my game (and evolve) while getting cats interested in KoF and pray that they get serious about it as much as any other person in any other FG scene (or even me)... I'm trying to do some things over here even with a mad crazy schedule... I'm trying to shoot towards attending this EVO also for these side events or whatnot... 2011 should not be another year that KoF gets overlooked by the general FG community in America... I'm tired of watching vids of players who aren't in America crushing cats in any KoF (especially XIII)... I'm tired of hearing people make excuses as to why they don't play KoF (well the ones purchasable)... Hell, I'm tired of a bunch of other crap, too, but I'ma just end it there... I wanna get on XIII so bad, but I never have the time to get up north... However, I still make sure that I'm on 98UM and 2k2UM beefing those skills up, and hopefully when this new joint decides to drop, I can translate whatever skills that can be translated over to XIII, while beefing those skills up...
Speaking of beef, this in no way was beef towards anyone, these are just my thoughts or whatever...
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@Jinxhand and @DG: Basically that's what I'm saying, I don't want people to think of AI players as elitist or anything, I know it's sometimes easy to think that way because we have ppl named MR KOF (haha John, just giving you a hard time), but we're very realistic with our skill-level or lack thereof; we know the ones that we can beat, and we also know we have a lot of work to do (some less than others, but overall we all need improving).
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I'll go to EVO 2k11 if we can bring KOF arcade cabs =P. About my rep as a elitist or whatnot...i've put in my work enough to become an icon....in 626 you wouldn't believe how many ppl stop and stare at my way when i'm in cafes hehhe.
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Also on a side note...i believe we can gain U.S. interest in kof13 and the series if SNK playmore sets up team battles events such as U.S.A. VS Japan / VS Europe
I'm willing to lay my nuts on the line if it were a two on two Best of the best kind of thing!
If you guys believe Team Deadly Duo can defeat other countries raise your voices!!! I would proudly represent for you guys and get respect for the U.S. on KOF terms. i know it's not kof relevant..but i'm saying if my SSF4 skills can hang with EG marn and other AI top talented players.. i'm saying you can trust in my abilities in KOF!
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No offense taken my friend no worries about that! Jinxhand I understand man what you are saying- and yeah what you are saying is WHY I am in Mexico, nothing changes. I don't want it to just be me and people from AI all the time carrying the US scene, I WANT you guys to help us as the United States get strong you know that's what I am saying, but what I have seen in the past is that these things don't change!
Also trust me I am certainly not elitist because I offer to help people in anyway possible but it seems like I'm just spinning my wheels and things come back to the same people representing the United States!! That's not what it should be about, we need more people willing to step up and take it to the next level like what Desmond is talking about!
Also what Mr. KOF is saying, whoever is representing the USA guys keep in mind you all can help us! The stronger you guys get and the more competition you all have the better everyone gets!
So it's a mutual thing for everyone!!!
Jinxhand I can't find too many dedicated people to pass the torch too here that's the frustrated thing! I am very happy what I am seeing in the MidWest however; thus they are getting a LARGE amount of my support! I am trying to take people from Mexico to them and viceversa, people from there to Mexico!
Like Kane317 says, even myself I am very realistic on my skill, and I have a goal of being able to defeat Kula in multiple KOF games, but he is without question far stronger than me!
But I just don't see the drive to do what I am doing in the United States for the most part sans a few people and that in itself is very troubling and frustrating!
Where's the drive? Where's the commitment to getting better? Where is the incentive to travel? I've said it many times, if you do what everyone else does you will be like everyone else! I mean even if I was getting a lot of money winning tournaments here something would be missing to me, because I am more about the competition! So yeah winning money may be good for some or like Justin Wong or whatever, but for someone like me it's not enough! If more people aren't doing what I'm doing travelling (the example because of someone that has no one close to my skill level around me, but I don't let that stop me from getting resoundingly better on a consistent basis!) or has access to skill like the people in AI, then I say we are doomed!
The middle ground of just playing online simply isn't good enough!!! Not if we want again to be strong AS A COUNTRY. Also even if you do have access to skill like AI, travelling is only gonna make you that much stronger! You can NEVER go wrong with travelling!
Also another thing Mr. KOF says, I believe 13 is the last hope for now in the USA, but again it starts with some of the touchy issues we are talking about, we need as much support and as many people taking it seriously when it becomes available as possible if we don't just want people like me and AI taking on Kula, the rest of Mexico and the Japanese!
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I wanna be the best, but the devil won't take up my offer haha
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The middle ground of just playing online simply isn't good enough!!! Not if we want again to be strong AS A COUNTRY. Also even if you do have access to skill like AI, travelling is only gonna make you that much stronger! You can NEVER go wrong with travelling!
We don't even have a lot of players that play online period to be honest.
Plus, I think playing online and using the resources that's available online (videos, wikis, forums etc) to your advantage can strengthen your knowledge of the game more than just spending XXX.XX of dollars to just get your ass KICKED in a day or two then just leaving back to a place where you have ZERO people to play with offline. You gotta do your homework before you do the test in my opinion.
I also feel that playing online can strengthen the player base here and show people that we do care and play these games, it can inspire people to play and practice more and build local scenes of their own and play.
This whole ONLINE PLAY is EVIL type shit has to go. The main reason I play online is for I can be a better player period, both on and offline.
And yes, I agree that playing offline at tournament is the big "exam/final at the end of the semester", but why online cannot by seen as a good study tool? When KOFXIII drops for consoles, online play will make or break the game here in the USA.
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The middle ground of just playing online simply isn't good enough!!! Not if we want again to be strong AS A COUNTRY. Also even if you do have access to skill like AI, travelling is only gonna make you that much stronger! You can NEVER go wrong with travelling!
Plus, I think playing online and using the resources that's available online (videos, wikis, forums etc) to your advantage can strengthen your knowledge of the game more than just spending XXX.XX of dollars to just get your ass KICKED in a day or two then just leaving back to a place where you have ZERO people to play with offline. You gotta do your homework before you do the test in my opinion.
I also feel that playing online can strengthen the player base here and show people that we do care and play these games, it can inspire people to play and practice more and build local scenes of their own and play.
This whole ONLINE PLAY is EVIL type shit has to go. The main reason I play online is for I can be a better player period, both on and offline.
And yes, I agree that playing offline at tournament is the big "exam/final at the end of the semester", but why online cannot by seen as a good study tool? When KOFXIII drops for consoles, online play will make or break the game here in the USA.
I agree with that to a point. Prior to traveling the way I do now, I was a true student of the game, I studied beyond possible belief every match vid, forum post, wiki everything I could get my hands on. While yes I would make some progress, I made more when I was playing getting my ass kicked.
In regards to playing online/studying videos vs. traveling to somewhere of high level I think there is something to consider:
1. How often are you traveling: Yeah just going to Mexico/Japan or whatever once a year isn't really gonna cut it, you gotta go more than that, if you are gonna do that yeah you are right 100% I feel! But if you go there every 3 months like me, even though I don't have access to anyone to play right now I am not really worried because I will have 4 full days in Mexico to make up for the time I haven't been playing vs. anyone! I am also quite certain due to the vast amount of high level skill that I will encounter that I will level up immensely versus these players, and it will make up not playing someone in 2 months!
IMHO and personal experience, I'd rather have 4 days of super high level experience vs. 2 months of low to medium level experience. For me it's quality over quantity!!
I feel I learn a lot more in those 4 days than I do at home watching videos! But this is just in my personal experience!
I think a combination of what you are saying works. I also don't think online is evil, I just know that there are those that do not feel the need to travel in order to improve and that's the problem.
Now I am also aware different people learn in different ways. For me personally sitting at home playing people studying wikis etc limits my growth, even offline if they aren't at a certain particular level of skill, then I am not really improving!
But yes you are right, if you do not have a basic understanding of the game then you may not understand what is happening when Kula is royally buttraping you!
So yes I agree use all the tools necessary in order to gain a true understanding, but I am saying if people wanna get to that "next level" something has to change, whatever is happening now I'm telling people based on the past 5-6 years worth of evidence in the USA, it clearly isn't working!
(I.E.results in tournaments boil down to the same region/area of players!)
All I'm saying is something has to change or things will continue to remain status quo!!!
In my own personal experiences for me I guess because I know the basics of the game and stuff like that, I have learned that in general the players themselves spend more time offline than online IF THEY CAN.
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Not everyone can afford time/money wise to travel to JPN or MEX 3 or 4 times a year unless it's work related, IMO.
There are good players online too, most of the time, people say they find better comp and challengers than people in their own city or town.
Doesnt Luis Cha and Kula play online sometimes? How do they feel about playing on GGPO?
To be honest, I think the real people that are helping areas in the USA level up and take KOF seriously are ones that were transplanted to from places that were KOF hotspots. Also people that have been playing and taking SNK games seriously from their inception in the arcades.
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Not everyone can afford time/money wise to travel to JPN or MEX 3 or 4 times a year unless it's work related, IMO.
There are good players online too, most of the time, people say they find better comp and challengers than people in their own city or town.
Doesnt Luis Cha and Kula play online sometimes? How do they feel about playing on GGPO?
To be honest, I think the real people that are helping areas in the USA level up and take KOF seriously are ones that were transplanted to from places that were KOF hotspots. Also people that have been playing and taking SNK games seriously from their inception in the arcades.
I understand that completely in regards to travelling 3-4 times a year trust me! I'm just identifying a bigger problem I see in many areas in many games not KOF, this is a general problem I see people saying "Why can't people stop Justin Wong from winning here in the USA etc etc".
Well this comes back to this too!
Yeah Luis Cha and Kula play online sometimes, I was talking to Kula about that yesterday even, he is online from time to time and plays. Luis Cha feels that GGPO is nice for training, but it is nothing compared to playing offline. Kula feels the same, we were talking about this in detail yesterday when talking about him and Osmani vs. Hummer and in the future me giving them the chance to prove that GGPO is just that-online; when I give them the chance to take on Cola since there are "people out there" that look into online SO seriously, that they believe what they see online is a direct reflection of what is going to happen OFFLINE (Generation GGPO!!!).
Luis Cha is good at GGPO he says, but he again says it's nothing compared to offline. He uses it as a training tool just to stay sharp. I will interview (already have it planned) these players including Osmani and Hummer about online play vs. offline play in my extensive interviews for The KOF Cup 2011.
Kula, Osmani and them do not put too much weight into that, but with that said Osmani is super motivated to come and prove to people that he can and WILL defeat Hummer, because he has heard all the jibber jabber as well from these "same people" that disrespect Mexican level of play (So Generation GGPO has made this very personal to Osmani!), so me, Kula, Osmani all share the same thought about this, it's about showing people that:
1. There is more than meets the eye than on GGPO/Supercade! In other words you cannot judge how results are gonna happen offline based off what happens online! Too many inconsistent variables online that are hard to quantify and measure for it to be able to be taken seriously. At best it's like the SAT Prep before the SAT or that practice test for the real test, no pressure, no worries, just something to help you get ready for the SAT!
2. In many places, most of the top players do NOT play online (Alexis, Zeus, Lalo do not play online, a lot of Japanese players as Bata was saying do not play online). Therefore many people saying these Mexicans "do stupid things online" etc have to realize that these are not the real players in Mexico!!!! So you are getting a very very distorted image of what Mexican style play is like! If anything my tournaments with Mexico vs. Japan as the theme should make that very, very clear!
3. Many players such as Kula do not really like/are not accustomed to online, but play on it just to see different styles, and stay sharp for as you say "The Final Exam."
4.-Some players like RINO are GODS online, but offline are nothing even remotely close to that!!!!!!! So again online can be a major deception! I may be popping the hype balloon when I say this guys, but Hummer says for me to hopefully not expect too much out of him..why? Because he doesn't have access to alot of competition! He lives in the Southern part of Japan so he doesn't have access to a lot of competition!
So maybe Hummer may be like Rino possibly- he could be a GOD online, but may not be at that level offline! We are about to see but these are things many people do not take into consideration! Now sure I'll use all this interpretation and distortion/deception and ride the hype train until my event concludes, but when it's over this stuff is going to come back up!! There is a purpose for doing this!
I also agree with the last statement, I just am saying that if people are fine with the results overall staying the same and ten years down the road it's still the same things and players for the most part, then everything should stay how it is.
But..
If people want to see new blood rising to the top, well there is going to have to be a change of some sort! Going back to what I said on the podcast, it's not easy being a top player. Aluding to what Mr. KOF said, we've worked very hard (harder than most) to be where we are! Instead of using that money for certain things we make sacrifices and use it for other things. I mean hey I talk to a lot of women (I'm not a player just in open relationships lol) so I mean guys I could be instead of going to Mexico I could be going to visit these women everywhere!
But I don't, I have to make a sacrifice in order to continue to train..and again those types of things separate again top players from those that are not.
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Well I'm a little disapointed that John doesn't want to play Kula any more even when DG is offering a $1000.00 Bonus pot. I guess his happy being the best player in the 626/AI, I'm not going to hate on that we all have different goals in life, I've achieved mine and I'm happy and all I can do now is support the US KOF and not defend it like in the past.
Now let's move on and get back on topic.
Should we have a cutoff date to have a side tourney for KOF XIII at EVO? What I mean is that if the game is NOT out by XX/XX/2011 we should postpone it?
Or do should we just do a tourney even if the game is out a week before EVO?
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No need for cut off dates. People will show up regardless. Just prepare for it as if a lot of ppl will show up.
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Well I'm a little disapointed that John doesn't want to play Kula any more even when DG is offering a $1000.00 Bonus pot. I guess his happy being the best player in the 626/AI, I'm not going to hate on that we all have different goals in life, I've achieved mine and I'm happy and all I can do now is support the US KOF and not defend it like in the past.
Now let's move on and get back on topic.
Should we have a cutoff date to have a side tourney for KOF XIII at EVO? What I mean is that if the game is NOT out by XX/XX/2011 we should postpone it?
Or do should we just do a tourney even if the game is out a week before EVO?
Tough call, we'll discuss this on the phone as we will other things!!!
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Now let's move on and get back on topic.
Should we have a cutoff date to have a side tourney for KOF XIII at EVO? What I mean is that if the game is NOT out by XX/XX/2011 we should postpone it?
Or do should we just do a tourney even if the game is out a week before EVO?
I think if anything, we should get together as a community and play a mini-tourney, it doesn't have to be broadcasted so that way it'll avoid any aforementioned negativity yet'll we'll still accomplish our ultimate goal; growing the community.
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Now let's move on and get back on topic.
Should we have a cutoff date to have a side tourney for KOF XIII at EVO? What I mean is that if the game is NOT out by XX/XX/2011 we should postpone it?
Or do should we just do a tourney even if the game is out a week before EVO?
I think if anything, we should get together as a community and play a mini-tourney, it doesn't have to be broadcasted so that way it'll avoid any aforementioned negativity yet'll we'll still accomplish our ultimate goal; growing the community.
I agree with this, that way you can post just the Winners Finals or Grand Finals or stuff like that if you all are worried about the quality of play like we are talking about.
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I see I will decline our participation in the live stream at EVO and let's get a few more comments on what people think.
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I think we should do a side tourney AND try to stream it regardless of whether or not the game comes out. We need to keep the interest in the game alive.
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I am for as much exposure for the game as possible, so if the opportunity arises to stream the tournament I would hope we would take full advantage of it. I don't understand what we would be saving ourselves from by not. Is it because we don't want to be criticized?
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I am for as much exposure for the game as possible, so if the opportunity arises to stream the tournament I would hope we would take full advantage of it. I don't understand what we would be saving ourselves from by not. Is it because we don't want to be criticized?
Oscar's reasoning is that once we stream XIII in EVO, where the expectations is already high, plus we're going to be viewed live by literally thousands of Capcom fans; if it's not entertaining, then the prospective fans are going to dismiss it.
I dunno how I feel about this myself, but it's not an outrageous point either.
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I am for as much exposure for the game as possible, so if the opportunity arises to stream the tournament I would hope we would take full advantage of it. I don't understand what we would be saving ourselves from by not. Is it because we don't want to be criticized?
Oscar's reasoning is that once we stream XIII in EVO, where the expectations is already high, plus we're going to be viewed live by literally thousands of Capcom fans; if it's not entertaining, then the prospective fans are going to dismiss it.
I dunno how I feel about this myself, but it's not an outrageous point either.
This is true. I keep people watching my vids on the older games how? I bring the hype, I show them high level play, I bring Japanese/Asian players, Top players like Kula etc, and this causes people that may not even play the games at to least watch them! (Also more and more people due to these tournaments, high level play, top/international players coming over are learning more games in Mexico so it is contagious! High level play breeds more players/interest!)
I mean let me illustrate this- I have 700+ subscribers give or take. Which do you think more of them watch:
-Geese Tower matches me vs. MightyMar, or
-Battle 4 Mexico footage Kula vs. Zeus???????????
This is my point precisely!
This is the type of level people need to see in the USA at EVO for it to really catch on!
At EVO if people see play that isn't that high, as I've seen many times, they bat an eye an keep on going. It has to be something to keep their interest so the level of play has to be good! The higher the level of play the better!
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I am for as much exposure for the game as possible, so if the opportunity arises to stream the tournament I would hope we would take full advantage of it. I don't understand what we would be saving ourselves from by not. Is it because we don't want to be criticized?
Oscar's reasoning is that once we stream XIII in EVO, where the expectations is already high, plus we're going to be viewed live by literally thousands of Capcom fans; if it's not entertaining, then the prospective fans are going to dismiss it.
I dunno how I feel about this myself, but it's not an outrageous point either.
Those fans dismiss anything not Capcom though.
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I am for as much exposure for the game as possible, so if the opportunity arises to stream the tournament I would hope we would take full advantage of it. I don't understand what we would be saving ourselves from by not. Is it because we don't want to be criticized?
Oscar's reasoning is that once we stream XIII in EVO, where the expectations is already high, plus we're going to be viewed live by literally thousands of Capcom fans; if it's not entertaining, then the prospective fans are going to dismiss it.
I dunno how I feel about this myself, but it's not an outrageous point either.
Those fans dismiss anything not Capcom though.
Yes but remember if we are targeting these casual fans, then it has to be entertaining. If you take at EVO all this high level entertaining play in all these other games like Tekken, SSF4, BB, GG, anything you name it, but then you come to the KOF section and have subpar play, why would someone bother with that?
That's like going to a strip club where you see a bunch of "dimes" you can go spend time/money/VIP section BAYBEE HEHE with, then you got the average girl up the street that pulls up, why would anyone give her the time of day when they got all these dimes everywhere? She'd better offer ONE HELLUVA DEAL to even get people looking in her direction, it'd better be like 45 minutes in the VIP room for like $10 if she wants to even step on the floor with all those other girls!
If we want to COMPETE with the SF's, Blazblues etc, we've gotta at the least offer comparable level of play in our games! We are fighting an uphill battle as it is because we aren't mainstream, so we CANNOT offer an inferior product!!! Matter of fact if this was MY SHOW, I'd insist if we are gonna put our best foot forward our best foot would have to be BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE'S BEST FOOT!
Again, you can't be like everyone else! If you wanna get noticed or stand out, you've gotta offer something no one else offers! See my tournaments, I dont run them like everyone else does, but because of that it has my own staple to it, my own flair to it, people watch it on youtube etc because they know they are gonna get a show!! They know they are going to get entertained! They know I am going to give them something to watch!!!!
-DG
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If y'all so worried about what people think, why not have a free tournament open to anyone, then have a invitational 5v5 streamed or recorded only and have DG rock some spikey grey hair Don King style? :p
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That's like going to a strip club where you see a bunch of "dimes" you can go spend time/money/VIP section BAYBEE HEHE with, then you got the average girl up the street that pulls up, why would anyone give her the time of day when they got all these dimes everywhere? She'd better offer ONE HELLUVA DEAL to even get people looking in her direction, it'd better be like 45 minutes in the VIP room for like $10 if she wants to even step on the floor with all those other girls!
LOL. Interesting choice of an analogy to illustrate your point, seems like more like an anecdote =)
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If y'all so worried about what people think, why not have a free tournament open to anyone, then have a invitational 5v5 streamed or recorded only and have DG rock some spikey grey hair Don King style? :p
Yo I'm trying!! That's why the Whole Mr. KOF/AI vs. Kula thing is SOOOO important! We had options for that at EVO, AI, Puebla and other things, and I KNEW that would be the thing that everyone would want to see, it would make everyone watch KOF at EVO or really ANYWHERE it's at!
So now it seems I gotta go back to the drawing board..=(
Kane- You are right an anecdote lol.
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At the same time you can say some publicity if better than no publicity at all. People can think that KOF is dead if it hasn't been int he public eye at all for a while. You can already see it dying down recently.
Maybe we should hold a tournament soon and upload vids from AI?
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At the same time you can say some publicity if better than no publicity at all. People can think that KOF is dead if it hasn't been int he public eye at all for a while. You can already see it dying down recently.
Maybe we should hold a tournament soon and upload vids from AI?
People know to expect a certain level of play from AI videos so anytime you guys upload a tournament it never hurts!
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so if everything works out and we do get a console release, and we get offered the opportunity to stream the event should do it, and here is my reasoning
No matter what happens our current problems of the present would still be relative at any point in the future. We're worried that there will not be enough high level play to put on display, but exactly when, and how will we know? And secondly If Kof XIII receives revisions( which is very likely) won't the majority of those serious players pick top tier characters( which so many people already hate seeing) would turn more people away. I mean we really haven't even seen what the real KoF XIII tourny scene looks like, but I'm sure those characters will be heavily into the equation especially with fierce competition. And that will be a problem no matter how high we get in skill for the viewers. So I suggest it's better to act sooner than later
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I'm glad we are getting different points of view. I'm not a huge fan of any publicity is good publicity. Like Yuhang said there will be thousands of people watching the stream (no joke) so we gotta make sure it's a good show.