Dream Cancel Forum
Other Fighting Games => Fatal Fury => SNK Games => Garou: Mark of the Wolves => Topic started by: Nocturnal on July 28, 2010, 05:45:35 AM
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Welcome to the Garou Mark of the Wolves thread. Here you will find everything you need to know about the Garou Mark of the Wolves game engine. If there is anything here that you don't understand don't be afraid to ask questions. Also this post will be updated if there are any changes or fixes. Enjoy.
Garou MOTW is out for Xbox live (6/24/09), the netcode is pretty bad, GGPO is still better. Port is similar to PS2
version with the same exact training mode. The "Guard Cancel" letters now show up so it's a fixed PS2 port. The Xbox 360 is the best port out now but PS2 version is still good for tournaments. Both versions run at a faster frame rate than the original arcade version.
***All character combos, strats, etc. on the second post***
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So to start things of here is a quick write up I did for the game engine. It should give you guys a good idea of how the game engine works in detail. This guide is good for the MVS/AES, DC, PS2 and Xbox 360 versions of Garou MOTW:
Taunt - AES/MVS (arcade) versions you press start to taunt your opponent. PS2 version you use the select button. Xbox 360 version you use the back button to taunt. You can also add a taunt button if you have more than four buttons on the PS2/360 versions of the game. You can cancel out of taunts during the taunt animations. Also right when you win a round after the KO you can do special hidden taunts by hitting either bck+ start or fwd + start on the AES/MVS versions. (On the PS2 it's bck + select button or fwd + select button, 360 version is bck + back button or fwd + back button)
Small jump - tap ub/up/uf.
Your character jumps about half the amount of a normal jump which can help you when you want to throw an opponent off. Since small jumps tend to be a bit more difficult to counter from the amount of jump height. Use small jumps to throw off opponents that think you'll attack low as you jump in, to land a overhead attack opening. Also remember that you cannot Just Defend when you small jump so make sure you use it wisely.
Normal Jump - press and hold ub/up/uf.
You can't air block in Garou MOTW but you can JD while you are in a normal jump state. You si,ple press ub/b/db just as you are about to get hit so you can JD their attack.
Super Jump (SJ) - dwn, then quickly hit ub/up/uf (Only for Dong and Jenet). Cannot JD during SJ animation.
Foward Dash or Run - tap fwd, fwd.
Here is a list of character that can run only: Rock, Hoku, Dong, Terry, Gato, Hotaru
and characters that can dash only: Grant, Kain, Jae, Freeman, Kevin, Jenet, Butt/Marco, Tizoc/The Griffon
Characters that dash usually have better mixup options since dashes are faster than runs. So for feint cancels or breaks this can be helpfull for a lot of situations where your opponent is cornered.
Back dash - tap bck, bck.
Everyone can back dash in Garou. It has invicibility during the back dash so you can go through normal, special or super attacks. It does have a small period of recovery at the end of it. So use it wisely and don't do it at the wrong times cause you might get hit as you finish the back dash animation. Certain characters can cancel out of their backdash animations as well. Here is a list of which characters can cancel their backdashes:
Jenet - During the backdash animation cancel into dwn + B/D (Might need to double tap down at times for it to come out more consistant)
Hoku - During backdash animation cancel into either qcf + A/C or qcb + B/D
Kain - During backdash you can cancel into his charge dwn, up + B/D, TOP attack (C+D), all supers. His backdash cancels require real fast strict timing. As soon as you backdash with him you have to cancel within 2 frames of the backdash start up animation.
Throws - Throw by pressing either f/b + C/D up close or in the air with C (Gato and Tizoc/The Griffon are the only two with D throws, also Jenet, Hoku, Hotaru and Dong only have air throws in the game with jump C).
You can tech out of throws by pressing the C/D button. You can air grab when you small jump, regular jump or even super jump as well. You cannot tech out of command grabs or air grabs. There is also a bug in MOTW that allows you to escape any throw. Whenever you input a TOP attack/Super during the recovery of one of your specials/supers, you won't be able to get thrown. It's a strange bug but it works pretty easy. This video shows it in application: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gRoJcRI-Jc&p=6B41D61AD830D624
Roll Recovery - When you land on the ground on your back/stomach press A, B, C or D.
Depending on which button you press executes the direction you will roll towards. Use them to recover quicker than just the normal get up recovery. Helps you out by preventing possible crossups or jump in attacks from the opponent as you get up. Though be carefull which ones you use as it's possible for an opponent to use the roll recovery to his advantage as well. Here is a list of what each button does, as you hit the ground press:
A - for a forward small roll recovery
B - for a backward small roll recovery
C - for a forward big roll recovery
D - for a backward big roll recovery
Guard Crush - You can get guard crushed if you block for too long your character starts flashing red when you get near guard crush. When you get a guard crush the words guard crush appear on the screen in red letters. You will see a blue spark different from the Just Defend blue spark, that shows your guard crushed. When you get guard crushed your left wide open as your character leans back for a second with his arms up. During that time your open for any attacks and you cannot block during that animation.
Feint moves - fwd + A + C or dwn + A + C (Any character).
Everyone in Garou has feint moves, they are used to trick your opponent into thinking your going to do a special or super attack. Both feint commands do different feint animations for each character. Try everyones out and also depending on which feint you do one is usually quicker than the other.
Feint cancels (FC) - fwd + A + C or dwn + A + C after a standing/crouch A, B, C and D.
Everyone except Grant can feint cancel, though not all normals can be feint cancelled. Some character can feint cancel all their normals while others can only feint cancel some. It usually depends also on how far or close you are to your opponent. Feint cancels are very helpfull since they allow you to cancel out of normals that usually have long recovery time. Such as standing fierce attacks, since they usually have a lot of recovery time behind them. Also with feint cancels you can do combos that you can't do normally at times. Such as for example with Terry do stand C, then fwd + A + C for his feint move, then cancel to another stand C or down + C, fwd + A + C feint cancel, etc. Experiment with each character what can or can't be feint cancelled on hit. Also if certain normals that you do on hit don't feint cancel they usually can on block. It's kinda strange bit can help out certain characters from their recovery times. Same goes for normals that are blocked which can also cancel into specials/supers as well. List showing which characters tend to use feint cancels more often:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index74.html#post5087718
Feint cancel loop explanations and video:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index75.html#post5140546
Power Meter - Your power meter can charge up to two times to be fully charged. When you have one bar of super meter its called S. power (Super) and if you have two bars then its P. power (Potential). P. power super moves do more damage then the normal S. power supers. You can only build meter either hitting the opponent with normals or if they block your normals or hitting them with specials or whiffing specials as well.
Just Defend (JD) - On the ground press bck for high/mid attack, db for low and bck while mid air from a normal/super jump. JD's occur when you defend a move at the last second. You cannot JD when you small jump. The words "Just Defend" should appear on the screen with yellow letters if you did it correctly. You should also see a blue spark which also indicates that you JDed a move correctly. This is one of the most important features in Garou, since this can decide the outcome of a match. Everytime you JD you gain back some life, which is why JD can really change the flow of a match. You can JD just about everything besides certain command grabs, grab supers and normal throws of course. Also remember you can't air guard in Garou but you can JD in the air as well. Learn the timings on certain moves as some require certain timings, to be JDed correctly. Also if lets say you JD in the air a normal attack/special or even super attack, you can counter right back after a JD. Since it counts as being neutral in the air, so you can do a normal attack, special attacks and it is even possible to air grab. They have to be close enough to you in order to air grab them, you can also continue to JD if they decide to lets say dash and try another normal on the ground before you land. So you can see that Just Defend is a
pretty important thing you use correctly in this game, use it wisely as well.
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Guard Cancel (GC) - As you JD do a motion for a special or super move to GC out of a JD stance. You'll notice how when you JD your character goes into a stance. It almost looks like hes ready to attack right after the stance which is where GC's come in.This can be a bit tricky but there are shortcuts to doing them with no problem. Easiest way to learn them is try GCing out of fireballs at first. If you do it right you should see the "Guard Cancel" words appear in red letters on the screen (PS2 version does not have this for some dumb reason). GC's help out in certain situations where you cannot counter certain moves. Once you learn GC's you can change a match around very quickly, if you catch opponents off guard. Especially agains't fireball happy opponents you can Guard Cancel back at them with your own fireball, special or super.
There are 2 methods for doing GC's:
1. Right when you JD do the motion for a special or super quickly. Theres a small window for doing the GC usually the window ends after the blue spark animation is done.
2. Since the Garou engine stores motions for specials, supers and charges, it helps make GC's easier. For
example with Rock if you do his fireball motion qcf then wait about a second or walk forward than hit A/C. The fireball still comes out because the motion stays stored for a short amount of time, with that you can use it for GC shortcuts. Think of it as an option select, before JDing do the motion for a fireball qcf. Then hit bck to JD right after that motion, then all you do next is hit any punch button A/C. This makes the fireball special come out as a GCed move, so you see why this shortcut helps out. Same can be done with super moves as well, do the motion qcfX2/qcfx3/360/720/etc, then press bck to JD. Then hit whatever button it needs to activate the super move to GC it. Once you learn this method of doing GC's it becomes easier doing them consistant. These links explains more about advanced motion storing:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index44.html#post3541389
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index45.html#post3546034
Break Moves (A special cancel like FRC's in Guilty Gear), here is the list of all the break moves for each character:
charge dwn, up + B/D - Jae
charge dwn, up + B/D and charge bck, fwd + D before he shoots forward - Kain
dp +B/D - Terry and Gato
dp + A/C - Dong, Butt/Marco and Grant
qcb + B/D- Hotaru
hcf + B/D (Only when it grabs) - Freeman
360 + C (Only when it grabs, can hold down A +B to do follow up charge attack) - Rock
qcf + B/D and qcfx2 + A/C (Can break at any time as soon as he starts throwing his ninja stars) - Hokutomaru
qcf + B/D - Jenet and Kevin
rdp + C and qcb + D - Tizoc/The Griffon
There are set special moves and supers in Garou for everyone that can be breaked out of by pressing A + B. Breaks help out in a lot of ways to either continue a combo or to prevent yourself from getting counter attacked. You can only break your break move once in a combo unless you get a counter hit. When you hit them with a break move and it counter hits them ,you can do another break with the same move. Though Jenet can break two of her specials in one combo, but the second break doesn't give you enough time to follow up after it. If you break correctly you can prevent the recovery time of the break move so your not wide open for your opponent to counter attack. You can break moves if they make contact, whiff and even if they are blocked. Once you learn the timings for breaks you can then master to combo into them with no sweat. Also breaks are good at times for gaining super meter as well, so its good to learn which break moves to use for gaining meter safely.
T.O.P System - T.O.P. stands for Tactical Offensive Position, you get to choose it right after the character select screen. Your life bar will appear with a white line and you get to choose from 3 different default positions, by pressing bck or fwd. On the AES, DC and PS2 versions you can shrink your TOP bar even smaller then the default postion by moving up or dwn. So you can have the TOP come up early in the round if you put it on the start of your life bar. You can also have it on the middle or even at the close end of the match as well. Depending on how you want your TOP set is how you should set it, everyone has their own preference. When you reach your TOP line on your life bar the words " TOP IN!" appear in yellow on the screen. Your character begins to flash as your in TOP mode. When your in TOP your attacks get stronger, you gain a TOP attack (press C + D to do your TOP attack for everyone in Garou) and you gain life also. Depending on how low your TOP line becomes is how much more damage your moves deal. The smaller the TOP line the more
damage it does agains't the opponent. Everyone in Garou has different TOP attacks some can be comboed into while others you can't really combo into at all. The majority of them though are usefull in their own ways, learn to use them wisely in certain situations. You can also GC into a TOP mode attack, which is very easy to GC into. You recover some life in TOP mode when your not being attacked by the opponent. It only gains back the full amount of TOP line that you picked from where it starts. A bit more info on TOP mode here:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index57.html#post4495330
Low Dodge Attack - Press A +B (Any character).
When you do a low dodge attack your character gains lower body invicibilty, so if an opponent tries to trip you it wont hit you. Though everyones low dodge attacks are different in Garou some are more usefull than others. Learn when to use them at the right times when playin agaisn't trip happy oppoents. The window for invicibility last until the low dodge attack animation ends. Some stay on the ground and some come off the ground as well. Also can be used as an overhead attack for some of the characters, since some of them come off the ground. So its great for mind games in certain situations like in the corner. Gato and Rock are the only characters who dont come off the ground with their A + B move.
High Dodge Attack - hit down + A + B (Any character).
When your do a high dodge attack your character gains upper body invicibility, great tool to use as a anti air attack. Since you gain the advantage agains't jump in attacks but make sure you time it right. If not you might end up trading hits if done too early or not doing the high dodge move at all. Again learn to use it wisely in a match so you can gain the advantage and maybe even land a counter hit. Also with the high dodge attack you can faint cancel it when it hits the opponent as well. You cannot faint cancel the high dodge attack when they block it though.
High/Low Dodge Attack Cancel - hit a stand/dwn + A + B then do a special move to cancel out of its starting animation. A lot like Kara Cancels in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike you can cancel certian high/low dodge attacks with every character. Some are more usefull than others and some are easier to cancel out than other characters. Great tool to use when you want to throw off your opponent, especially in wake up situations.
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index27.html#post3114245
Here is a list of characters that can cancel their A + B overheards while in the air:
A + B cancel into qcf + A - Tizoc
A + B cancel into qcb + B/D - Hotaru
A + B cancel into dwn + B/D - Jenet and Grant
A + B cancel into qcf + A/C or qcb + B/D - Hokutomaru
A + B cancel into any of his specials/supers - Rock (His doesn't come off the ground but he uses it the most effective. Mainly because it opens up so many options for him during wake up situations.)
Kara Cancels - Japanese term that means "empty cancel".
In other words when you can cancel out of normal attack into a special move, before seeing the normal attack animationfully finish. Mainly used to gain some extra range on certain special/super attacks. Each normal attack for each character has different timings for the kara cancels. Use them again to throw off opponents in mind game situations.
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Counter Hits - In Garou there are 2 different types of counter hits that are possible to occur in a match. Both can help you out in either landing a free super or getting extra hits for more damage.
The first kind of counter hit is an official counter hit, when you see "Counter Hit" appear on the screen in red letters. Depending on what attack you use is usually what causes a character to fly u/flip around on the ground from a counter hit. It can happen from either normal/special/super moves and they usually all give you an opening for another extra hit. It depends on how they hit the character on the ground/air. Air counter hits or a move that makes them go up from a counter hit lets you get a free extra juggle/hit from it. So if lets say Terry does his dp + B/D then breaks it and lands a counter hit. Then he can go ahead and do another dp + B/D into break again then use a special/TOP attack/super afterward. You gain an extra break everytime after a counter hit so use it as much as possible if you can. You can see that with this type of counter hit other combo possibilities are possible. Another thing with official counter hits is that if the opponent lands on their stomach. You can roll recover from a counter hit attack when you land on your back/stomach. But if the opponent doesn't roll recover from a counter hit then you can hit them while they are laying on the ground. Think of it like a OTG (off the ground) hit, though you only get one extra hit from it. Something to know incase you don't see them roll recovery off the counter hit, so you can land an extra hit. I'll get more into these type
of counter hit combos in the character threads as they progress. Then theres the ground counter hit that flips them around as they get a counter hit. With these type you can walk up and start a free combo, super them, etc. When they flip around they stay stun the whole time they are in that animation. So once you see that happen it's your chance to punish them during/right after it.
The second type of counter hit is the type that doesn't show on the screen but allows you to connect a special/super only after it. This type usually happens when you trade hits most of the time, when doing two specials/supers at the same moment. So if you ever see a situation where you both do a special but you recover faster while your opponent still falls. Then you can quickly follow it up a special or better yet a super before they land on the ground.
Motion Storing Technique - There's a technique in MOTW where you can store motions without having specials/supers triggering. For example with Freeman lets say you want to cancel his stand A into his qcf x2 + P super. The problem with doing it normally is that Freeman has a qcf + A/C special which tends to overlap the super a lot of the time. It's possible to do it from a neutral stand but timing has to be fast. The best way would be to instead do qcf + A + D, then qcf + A/C. What happens instead is you still get the stand A when you do qcf + A + D. When you press any buttons with D the game doesn't let you trigger any specials/supers. Instead the game stores the motion and has whatever you button you press with D come out instead. So with Freeman qcf + A + D will only give you stand A and not a qcf + A/C special. You keep the motion stored so you can quickly just do another qcf + A and his qcfx2 + A/C super will come out. Since you stored the extra qcf the game only needs you to do qcf + A for the super to activate. This also helps when doing more complex combos like trying to combo into qcf x3 + C with Dong/Marco. You can also use it for simple combos if you are having problems trying to do even basic combos.
Throw bug - There is a bug in MOTW where it allows you to be throw invincible for a certain amount of frames. The only way you can do it though is if you have at least 1 super bar or if you are in TOP mode. This video explains it a bit
more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gRoJcRI-Jc
Here are the codes to pick Grant and Kain in the arcade MVS version of Garou MOTW, you can do them fast or slow but there is a timer:
-For Grant go to Dong, hold down start, tap upx2, dwnx2, up, dwn. Grant should appear if you did the code correctly, then just press A, B, C or D to pick his color.
-For Kain go to Jae, hold down start, tap dwnx2, upx2, dwn, up. Kain should appear if you did the code correctly, then just press A, B, C o rD to pick his color.
In order to do survival mode in the MVS arcade version of the game you have to press and hold A +B + C + D before hitting start. It should take you directly into survival mode after you pick your character.
Here is most of the characters frame data info:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index4.html#post1972855
Tier lists:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index12.html#post2705417
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index40.html#post3423826
Console port differences:
http://shoryuken.com/f2/fighting-game-console-port-differences-thread-139385/index2.html#post4324981
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index76.html#post5182703
Character Hitboxes:
http://uo-mabushi.jp/ (Not 100% complete yet and it's all in japanese also)
0F (Zero Frame) unblockable setups, escapes, counters and option selects:
http://shoryuken.com/f2/get-ready-survive-new-garou-mark-wolves-thread-157635/index75.html#post8791818
This covers just about everything you should know about Garou: MOTW engine before learning the character you want to master. If anyone has any questions don't be afraid to ask here. Check the next post after this where I post character specific topics next. I hope this helps everyone out in the long run, so enjoy and have fun.
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I'm gonna' ask a legit question and hope I don't get flamed. Because if I bring it up anywhere else, I just get flamed for saying it.
I dig this game, I've put it in my Top 10 Fighters list. I can accept the infinites that Jenet and Kevin have. Terry also has an infinite, but it's easier to get out of then the others. I think it's a good game.
I like and respect this game. But there's one thing that absolutely kills it for me. And that is poke priority. KOF has something similar, but not in KOF does every poke beat every special move like in Garou.
I'm just sharing my opinion here, not hating on the game. I just don't like this mechanic. And I'd like to know what others think of this mechanic, and how they get around it.
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I like and respect this game. But there's one thing that absolutely kills it for me. And that is poke priority. KOF has something similar, but not in KOF does every poke beat every special move like in Garou.
I'm just sharing my opinion here, not hating on the game. I just don't like this mechanic. And I'd like to know what others think of this mechanic, and how they get around it.
You have to consider move startups frames and invincibilities. If a special move has some startup and someone's poke has already come out, the special move will probably lose unless it had some startup invincibility.
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I can accept the infinites that Jenet and Kevin have. Terry also has an infinite, but it's easier to get out of then the others. I think it's a good game.
I never knew they had infinites, I know Kevin has a few variations of a 100% combo, while Jae Hoon and Hokutomaru both can do an infinite with consecutive feint canceling.
Got any links to vids of the infinites you mentioned?
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He's probably talking about Jenet's FC loop which is similar to Jae's and Hoku's. Chances of someone pulling off a full loop in a match is very unlikely. The timing has to be perfect. You also have to consider the chance of dropping the combo is very high. It's better to just go for a knockdown into wake up mixup. Kevin doesn't have an infinites but he does have situational 100% combos which you will never see in high level play. Terry does not have an infinite period. His FC loops can only go for so long before you get pushed back too far. As for pokes go, it's similar to any other game really. Emil pretty much already explained it. You have to consider the frames the normals come out at versus the special/super being used. Not all specials/supers have invincibility on start up. It's all trial and error and once you figure out what beats what then you'll know not to use those things in certain situations.
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I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but to me an Infinite is a string of attacks that cannot be escape from. Unless I'm totally wrong, but that to me is an infinite. Kevin, Jenet, and Terry can get you in an infinite when you block, they can basically just keep attacking you. Nocturnal's correct in that Terry does not have an infinite like Kevin and Jenet, he will eventually be pushed away, but the time it takes that to happen he will break your guard and do whatever he wants to you.
I'm trying to think of a rape joke involving 'Busta wolf!' but nothing comes to mind.
It's possible to escape from these infinites by hitting Down+AB at the correct time. However, players that know this can bait you to do the Down+AB, and then mercilessly beat you down for that.
The only thing you can do to really avoid it is not get pushed in the corner, which doesn't help much of course.
The thing with the pokes is that it comes down to certain characters being at a disadvantage simply because their specials don't have much invincibility.
Take Gato for example: Only his Quaking Fang (QCF+Punch) can't be poked out. Everything else he has can be poked out. I know he places high in the tiers but that's only if you're good at mastering Cancelling the Gale Fang (QCB+Kick) and you can do craploads of damage with that one setup. However the timing has to be perfect, it works infinitely better on counter hit, and you can still be poked out of it.
So it comes down to characters with invincible AA's can do better than everyone else just because they can't be poked out.
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Hmm can't you JD GC to get out?
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Remxi, you can JD/GC to get out of Terr's guard crush loop when he does his ff+C. You can also throw him, poke him out of it, or d+AB. There are several other options, but these are the most commonly used.
LouisCipher you really need to re-word some things you're talking about. I read your post thinking you were saying "d+AB will get your out of infinites if timed correctly" making it sound as if thre are combo breakers in the game. Gato's qcf+P can be poked out of, it has happened to me plenty of times. Everything can be poked out of if you time it right, this applies to many other fighters, not just Garou.
As for legit infinites, only four characters have them: Jae, Hoku, Freeman, and Jenet. All of them involve the feint cancel loop except Jenet's dive kick infinite, which, imo, is much harder to pull off than the feint cancel one.
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Garou for the win, this walkthrough is really impressive nocturnal, thx laster i digg it.
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I need to edit the first few post now that arrows and buttons icons are active. I wouldn't really count Jenet's dive kick loop as an infinite. It's pretty much impossible to loop it forever because they fall lower each rep you do.
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couple things.
first the infinites: jae, hoku, feeman and jenet. first of jenets, her air dive infinite. doesnt the opponent get too low after a while, so meaning its not a true infinite? and isnt dong hwan able to infinite? ive seen somebody do the same infinite jae did killing somebody. but the opponent didnt have full health so it might push him back too far back. dont know fr sure (ooh boy, been years since ive played this game).
last thing id like to note. i remember it wasnt possible to combo on after low jumps like in kof. you could use a super, or even a special (dont remember, super is correct though). but you couldnt continue comboing with normals after a low jump in connecting (which i always found fucked up in this game).
las thing id like to add. i dont know what i miss more. not having a motw2 or rb3. damn.
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isnt jenets infinite a feint dash cancel loop too? Im pretty sure ive seen it in a combo vid
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The Jenet dive kick loop is not an infinite loop. They do get too low after a few reps but good luck trying to do more than 2 reps. Dong does have a feint combo loop but again it's really hard since he has to run in. Jenet does have one as well but she doesn't really need it to win. You can combo from low jumps. It's just that they have to be done meaty for you to be able combo into afterwards. It also depends on the character you are using. Certain supers require you to be close and doing a small jump tends to push you back some. So you might end up whiffing a super completely just doing a small jump attack into super with some. So it benefits characters with fast specials that they can break or fast supers like Rock's qcfx2 + B/D for instance.
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jenet got a real infinite, and like noc says the other air one isnt real. in could pull off 3 or 4 at best with her. and those infinites, they really drive me crazy at times (when performing them), either brain freeze or finger freeze after a few reps. respect to those that can actually pull this shit off during a match.
lastly, its been some time. but you can for instance do low jump in attack with rock (which pushes them pretty far like you said), thhen do crouching C or standing A into something? i though only super and maybe specials where possible. again, been too long. will try on emu later.
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In the end it's better to only do a few reps and not worth trying to do a whole full loop. The chances for error get higher each rep. Yea with Rock you can stick out a normal after a small jump. It depends though which normal you use. If you use his small jump C you might get pushed back too far depending how close you do the small jump C. The harder normals do have longer hit stun with more push back but you can also use his weaker normals to combo from as well. It's just that the weaker normals tend to have less hit stun but push back less. So depending on the situation both have their uses. Some good examples would be small jump C/D, land, stand A/down + B, qcfx2 + B/D super or you can do small jump deep A, land, stand A/down + B, qcfx2 + B/D. Again it just depends how deep or close you hit them with the normal you use to be able to continue a combo/string.
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Just additional note in the dashing part. Tizoc can't cancel his forward dash to even a jump. Makes a great tool for buffering moves though.
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Hay How bad is Freeman's helth. And Can I get you guys GT for some games and is Kim(dong,and jae's dad) dead in mow
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Since the 2k2UM game got patched, what do we have to do to get Garou patched up so that way we can actually get playable netcode for XBL?
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Petition??? SNK on facebook???
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any adviec on fight Butt ,Gato, and Grant. I play Freeman,Rock,and Jae
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Don't let Gato build his meter... Most players that turtle you will see doing the stomp~break... Don't let them do it... You've gotta make sure your hits connect with Gato, because one punish combo can take a huge chunk without meter...
As far as Marco Rodriguez goes (I prefer that name), its basically a patience game, since fireballs will be spammed and you can't roll. JD while inching in. I believe Freeman has moves that can stop some of his shenanigans with that counter, especially against strong hits and Marco's charge C, just make sure you break the counter, and combo accordingly. That counter doesn't stop air hits though... Look for moments to punish him as well... Qcf + A/C might go under fireballs, I just haven't had the time to try it out...
I don't know too much about Grant, and the other characters, but I'm willing to learn just to share the knowledge... I'll be training this week...
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Ok, with Grant, don't put yourself in the corner... That's where he shines!!!
He can do a simple ;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ ;a ;b , ;df ;c (3 times), ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b and that does over 70% dmg... He has other combos that do ridiculous damage, but the point is, they all start from the corner...
Most he can do at mid screen that I could find, since he can't really cancel (except for with ;dn ;a ;b ), are these:
;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ ;a ;b , dash ;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ in the air, ;dn ;d
;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ ;a ;b , ;dn ;df ;fd ;b
;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ ;a ;b , dash standing ;c
;fd ;bk ;fd ;c , ;df ;c (opponent flies behind Grant), ;dn ;df ;fd ;b or ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;b / ;d
;dn ;a ;b (cancel at first hit), ;dn ;df ;fd ;b
They all do a pretty good amount of damage, but I like the first one because its kinda flashy...
With meter at max, he can do this:
;fd ;dn ;df ;c ~ ;a ;b , ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;c and that's almost ggs right there... Just try these combos out, and watch your mouth drop... There's a combo video on youtube showing the damage he can do, but this really is supposed to be a guide to help fight against him, so let's get back on track... For those that want to learn Grant, learn those combos!!! Ok, back on track...
Look out for his normal attacks, standing ;c , crouching ;d , crouching ;b , and his jabs... If a fireball is used, its his ;a fireball, since ;c comes out slow, but most players shouldn't really use them that much... ;dn ;df ;fd ;b and the ;d version are what's gonna be used, especially ;dn ;df ;fd ;d since it crosses up, so be careful when they start to use that. Counter hit ;dn ;df ;fd ;b / ;d gives almost anything else for free, which means death in some cases... Two of those moves back to back take half of your life, so watch out for that... Speaking of cross ups, air ;dn ;b / ;d can be used as a regular attack, or a simple cross up, as well as jumping ;b . I can't think of anything else right now... This is all from 5-10 minutes of just quick practicing, and I did look at one match from Howard Arena...
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The corner thing goes for everyone really. Everyone's longer combos are in the corner. Freeman vs Grant is a bad match for Freeman for the most part. Unless you can read the player and JD everything correctly it's going to be a tough match. You also need to be on point with your GCs in order to stop Grant players from rushing you. I'll post some write ups from SRK talking about things to use with Freeman. It's hard breaking down what beats what since everything depends on how the opponents are using Marco, Gato and Grant. Here are some good write ups for certain situations that I think are good reads for Freeman players to learn from:
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index18.html#post2814419
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index47.html#post3770566
http://shoryuken.com/f4/garou-motw-thread-52470/index47.html#post3770788
http://shoryuken.com/f2/get-ready-survive-new-garou-mark-wolves-thread-157635/index3.html#post5227241
http://shoryuken.com/f2/get-ready-survive-new-garou-mark-wolves-thread-157635/index68.html#post8216627
I also recommend watching good Freeman players in action. Plenty of matches are up on youtube showing how Freeman should be used at higher levels.
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I do see how everyone practically does great in the corners, especially seeing a bunch of "corner" combo videos... For me it seems that's all Grant's got, aside from a few things he can do mid screen, which can do some damage surprisingly... I'm still learning though, as for the longest I've stuck with Gato and Marco...
I do see that while Freeman has moves that look good, they're not as strong as they seem vs many of the characters, and his trade-offs aren't good either... Does he happen to take the most damage out of all the other characters, or does that type of "health" tier listing even exist???
I'm still upset that this game was never considered stronger than 3S... Kain was like the first playable boss that was fun imo...
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We should post on facebook to make upgrades of the netcode for garou and 98
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I do see that while Freeman has moves that look good, they're not as strong as they seem vs many of the characters, and his trade-offs aren't good either... Does he happen to take the most damage out of all the other characters, or does that type of "health" tier listing even exist???
Well it just depends really on the trade offs. Yea certain characters have way better options off trades but Freeman can still hold down the cast. You just have to play smart and look at how the oppnent is using their character really. There is a list like that but I don't have it off the top of my head atm. I know it goes something like Rock, Hotaru, Jenet, Hoku, Freeman then so on. Tizoc and Grant have the strongest I know that. I'll have to check the mook and see if they have a list on that then add it to the first post.
We should post on facebook to make upgrades of the netcode for garou and 98
It would be nice but at this point I don't see it happening even if we bothered SNK about it. I would rather they concentrate on good netcode for kofXIII and so on.
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Hopefully with the success of KOFXIII they can work on maybe a MOTW2, or do what Capcom is doing for 3S and update this MOTW... I'm pretty sure it's patchable... I remember FF for the 360 got patched at least once or twice...
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A MOTW UM Would be nice. They can tweak things and what not. Anything is possible I guess but at this point kofXiii should be the priority for them. If that pulls through good then they can start on other projects.
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I do see that while Freeman has moves that look good, they're not as strong as they seem vs many of the characters, and his trade-offs aren't good either... Does he happen to take the most damage out of all the other characters, or does that type of "health" tier listing even exist???
Well it just depends really on the trade offs. Yea certain characters have way better options off trades but Freeman can still hold down the cast. You just have to play smart and look at how the oppnent is using their character really. There is a list like that but I don't have it off the top of my head atm. I know it goes something like Rock, Hotaru, Jenet, Hoku, Freeman then so on. Tizoc and Grant have the strongest I know that. I'll have to check the mook and see if they have a list on that then add it to the first post.
We should post on facebook to make upgrades of the netcode for garou and 98
It would be nice but at this point I don't see it happening even if we bothered SNK about it. I would rather they concentrate on good netcode for kofXIII and so on.
would you mind sharing the mook?
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You mean scanning it? That would take a while to do. Not to mention it's all in Japanese.
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if you got the time i wouldnt mind dl it. i luv mooks and artbooks. does it have sprite works and artwaorks in it, along with conceptual designs and such (ending, intro and all that). that is if its not too much trouble and you got the time, i wouldnt mind it, that is if you dont mind.
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FF is fatal fury right?
Because I recall to download at least 5 patches, even though I bought the game one and a half year later than his original release
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if you got the time i wouldnt mind dl it. i luv mooks and artbooks. does it have sprite works and artwaorks in it, along with conceptual designs and such (ending, intro and all that). that is if its not too much trouble and you got the time, i wouldnt mind it, that is if you dont mind.
Yea it has all that stuff. It also shows what Grant looks like under his mask. My scanner isn't the greatest scanner either. I might have to use my cell phone or a digital camera to speed it up.
FF is fatal fury right?
Because I recall to download at least 5 patches, even though I bought the game one and a half year later than his original release
Yes FF usually stands for Fatal Fury or sometimes Final Fight or Final Fantasy for RPG heads. Since this is a fighting game forum FF should be Fatal Fury though for the most part. There are 8 FF games total from the neogeo MVS/AES. You can always wikipedia how many FF games there are though.
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Yeah if we're gonna do this, we should probably get a wiki started... This site is getting quite a bit of buzz, and it would be good to have the plethora of info for this game should it decide to blow up like 3S did...
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if you got the time i wouldnt mind dl it. i luv mooks and artbooks. does it have sprite works and artwaorks in it, along with conceptual designs and such (ending, intro and all that). that is if its not too much trouble and you got the time, i wouldnt mind it, that is if you dont mind.
Yea it has all that stuff. It also shows what Grant looks like under his mask. My scanner isn't the greatest scanner either. I might have to use my cell phone or a digital camera to speed it up.
damn, thats some good shit right there. if you wouldnt mind id like to have it. fucking awesome.
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Has the tier list for this game changed at all??? I know its been out for years now, so I'm pretty sure its changed up a bit... And if it has changed, is it by region (US vs EU vs JP)???
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The tier list has changed slightly but for the most part top 5 is: Kevin, Jenet, Gato, Kain, Grant then everyone else is in the middle and Tizoc would be dead last because of the throw escape bug. That is all based on the characters strength/options. The reason Kain got so much higher now is because of all the new stuff that has been found in the last 4 years. Again the tier list will always change depending how much better players get really. If you know the matches up well enough the tier list wont matter much. Skills play too much of a factor. That is why in Japanaese tournament you never see the same person winning all the time. Yea there are still the top players but the results for always different.
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The tier list has changed slightly but for the most part top 5 is: Kevin, Jenet, Gato, Kain, Grant then everyone else is in the middle and Tizoc would be dead last because of the throw escape bug. That is all based on the characters strength/options. The reason Kain got so much higher now is because of all the new stuff that has been found in the last 4 years. Again the tier list will always change depending how much better players get really. If you know the matches up well enough the tier list wont matter much. Skills play too much of a factor. That is why in Japanaese tournament you never see the same person winning all the time. Yea there are still the top players but the results for always different.
Yeah I love variety, and I'm not too fond of tier lists in terms of "who's the strongest", per sé... I like seeing who's the strongest per region, but in my mind it doesn't mean that "x" character is the be-all-end-all... That's kinda how VF is, and imo Fighter's History Dynamite.
Anyway, I'm not too hip on the throw bug (ed. - saw it on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gRoJcRI-Jc&feature=BF )...
Btw, what is this new Kain info??? I'm interested as he's a charge character I like to play as... Plus I like regular combos (I don't why though)...
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I'm gonna have to get a PS2 stick. The feint cancels are almost impossible for me to do consistently on pad.
I wish my PS3 stick was backwards compatable.
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Some questions for Nocturnal if he doesn't mind.
1. Garou is your main game right? How long have you been playing and are you considered the best Garou US player? If not, who is?
2. I'm sure the community is small for this game, but where is the biggest area of Garou players? At NECXI, there seemed to be a good 30 or so players from the east coast playing it. Also, besides yourself, who are the top US players and world players if you know?
3. If you could change anything about the game, what would it be?
4. Do you know if Garou is big in any latin countries?
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Btw, what is this new Kain info??? I'm interested as he's a charge character I like to play as... Plus I like regular combos (I don't why though)...
It's mainly the stuff that was discovered within the 2006 to now period. Being able to not let opponents have quick roll recover when doing his ball super as they are knocked down. That really changed his game because it gives Kain the advantage in continuing his pressure. The opponent has to either JD and not miss time it. If you just block it and he's in TOP mode then it's a free guard crush for Kain. That and the ability to charge between JDs.
Some questions for Nocturnal if he doesn't mind.
1. Garou is your main game right? How long have you been playing and are you considered the best Garou US player? If not, who is?
2. I'm sure the community is small for this game, but where is the biggest area of Garou players? At NECXI, there seemed to be a good 30 or so players from the east coast playing it. Also, besides yourself, who are the top US players and world players if you know?
3. If you could change anything about the game, what would it be?
4. Do you know if Garou is big in any latin countries?
Okay I'll answer in the order:
1. I didn't really get into SNK games until 2003. I knew about the games but never decided to learn any seriously until I bumped into MOTW. If it weren't for Mame + Kaillera I would have never played it probably the way I do now. So I would say yes it's my main game but I also play other games at competitive levels. I wouldn't say I'm th best in the US. If anything I probably play it more than anyone in the US besides Giby. Though most people say I'm the best since I've won most of the offline tournaments and all. Though it doesn't really matter much when there is barely a scene for it really. I just enjoy playing it plain and simple. I'm hoping to go to Japan and play the best there to see where I stand. Win or lose I know I'll have fun playing.
2. There really isn't a set spot for it. Most of the players that do play it are spread around the US. Besides me and Giby there aren't many who touch the game in California. The exception would probably be Magician but he's been pretty busy with his new career. Also THE ANSWER played the game at one point but now he just concentrates on KOFXIII mainly. There seem to be lots of people in the EC that play it but I don't know how serious they really play it. Besides Justin, SteveH and Buktooth I dont know any other top player that even tries to play it now. I know there's a few people in Texas that play it like Omerta and a few others. I think Florida has some people also. Pretty sure NY has as few people. Michigan has a few heads too that play it. It's really hard to pin point spots where people play when there are barely any players that play it. Outside of the US there seem to be more players in general that play in France, Brazil, Korea, Mexico and of course Japan.
3. This was brought up on SRK a while back. I'll just copy and paste what I wrote on that:
-TOP mode should be tweaked slightly or just remove it from the game. They should probably just give everyone the TOP attack as an extra special move instead. All they really need to do is fix the slowdown from TOP activation and have it so the damage is equal no matter the size of the TOP bar.
-Fix the throw escape bug. It doesn't just apply to Tizoc. It's just that it hurts him more because he needs throws for damage.
-Fix the slow downs that happen in game from specials. Specials like Jenet's dive kick special cause slow down or even Kevin's TOP attack. I blame the hardware since at the time SNK was using the max potential of the Neogeo hardware. PS2/360 versions did slightly fix the slowdown issues at least.
-Breaks should probably cost meter and same for guard cancels. Though I think they are fine as they are now. I know most people wanted it more like RB2. It would help remove Kevin's corner guard crush break loop stuff. The only problem with this is that now meter building will take longer for certain characters. Some characters need their break cancel to build meter.
-Have it so when you FC (feint cancel) it creates more push back during block strings or when you combo with it.
-Remove Kevin's special cancel and Gato's stomp cancel. They wont be able to build meter as fast.
-Remove the Jenet hit stun bug.
-Remove the Rock freeze bug that happens when Freeman hits him with his counter super. It's not really a huge deal since Rock can't be hit anyways when he's stuck. It's also a situational type of thing. Chances of it happening in a match is very small.
-Remove the 0 frame unblockable super bug.
I think those modifications would at least give certain characters better match ups in the long run.
4. Like I stated before Mexico and Brazil are the main latin countries playing it for the most part. I know Brazilians for sure play it offline too not just online.
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Are most if not all of these glitches doable on the xbla version??? I've yet to try it out, and I'm at work right now...
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Are most if not all of these glitches doable on the xbla version??? I've yet to try it out, and I'm at work right now...
Yes. All the bugs work in all the console ports (DC, PS2 and 360).
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Anyone play this on GGPO? I'd like to learn the game more.
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I'm pretty active on GGPO w/ MOTW if you wanna play some matches.
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Hahah this post is AWESOME. This game is so legendarily good, a lot better then Third Strike. I'm trying to write a guide like this on KOF 94 but it seems like a pretty simple game.
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lol, macros in Garou XBLA are insane, some combos are really amazing, I can't do any of them : (
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lol, macros in Garou XBLA are insane, some combos are really amazing, I can't do any of them : (
yeah i cant do terry's even if i tried and i have
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BTW, I had never pulled the ryuuko ranbu that appears on Marco's Macros
How many times you had to press the button?
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BTW, I had never pulled the ryuuko ranbu that appears on Marco's Macros
How many times you had to press the button?
;dn ;df ;fd x3 + ;c repeatedly
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I knew that input, which I don't know is how many times I had to press to pull the ranbu that appears on the macros, it's seems different than the one which I get that are like 23 hits
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Level 1: 0 - 2 times 13 hits
Level 2: 3 - 6 times 19 hits
Level 3: 7 - 9 times 22 hits
Level 4: 10 or more times 20 hits
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Hey does any body have any Kevin Rian helpful tips. Such as his feint cancels and proper use of them, and a couple of good basic or advance BnB's I should utilize.
I've been looking at a couple of his high level matches try to get some good knowledge on how i should play with him. Such as :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjC8XWWkOkI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjC8XWWkOkI)
And a bunch from JaimeDL's channel. Might I say thanks for all the good Garou uploads too, very good vids. But yeah any Kevin Rian tips I would greatly appreciate it :).
Awww Shit Sorry Edit :
Kevin:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2257091&postcount=128
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2329098&postcount=202
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2940525&postcount=501
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=2988143&postcount=541
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3348356&postcount=892
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3406723&postcount=952
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3567539&postcount=1118
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4939040&postcount=1704
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4939131&postcount=1705
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5108229&postcount=1833
Thanks a bunch Noc, I think I'll be ok for now. But if anybody still have any good tips for me please inform me with what you personal know, i appreciate it once again.
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I have a problem with playing Garou on NeoRageX. Whenever I play it there, Gato's moves don't pull of and the game freezes when in goes to Terry's final round stage. Has this happened to anyone? Or is it just me?
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I haven't played that on NeoRageX in so long... I main Gato then, but when I played it I never had the game freeze on me...
What are your settings for the game??? I might just get this again to test things out...
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I haven't played that on NeoRageX in so long... I main Gato then, but when I played it I never had the game freeze on me...
What are your settings for the game??? I might just get this again to test things out...
I have no idea on how to check a game's settings
Edit: the game doesn't actually freeze on Terry's final round stage. The stage doesn't load, but the music keeps on playing. I don't know if that counts as freezing or not.
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lol, I can't believe that people still uses neoragex
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What should I be using, then?
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What should I be using, then?
You should be be using FBA for the most part. Runs the games smooth. Mame or Kawaks also are good alt emulators to try.
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What should I be using, then?
You should be be using FBA for the most part. Runs the games smooth. Mame or Kawaks also are good alt emulators to try.
I do not understand MAME one bit. I tried to run it and I couldn't.
So I guess no one can help me with my problem, then?
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I sorta fixed my problem. I went around different sites to download the ROM and I came across a "prototype" version of Garou. It works fine, except that for some reason, I can't play as Grant or Kain, even when I put the code to unlock them.
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Don't bother with the prototype, it's very different from the final build of the game, and nobody plays it. Make sure you get set 1. Just download Neo Final Burn Alpha, or get GGPO.
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I sorta fixed my problem. I went around different sites to download the ROM and I came across a "prototype" version of Garou. It works fine, except that for some reason, I can't play as Grant or Kain, even when I put the code to unlock them.
Yeah, forget prototype. There are combos and stuff that don't work in the good version iirc.
If you can't find mame/rom that works then let me know and I will upload you mine (emu+rom) when I get home from work.
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Don't bother with the prototype, it's very different from the final build of the game, and nobody plays it. Make sure you get set 1. Just download Neo Final Burn Alpha, or get GGPO.
What is this set one you speak of?
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Set 1 is the final build of the game.
You can find it on any rom site under Mame roms.
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Prototype version is unplayable. A couple of moves in the game cause the game to reset like Jae's TOP attack. There are also a lot of bug combos and an easy infinite with Grant. Just stick with the Set 1 rom.
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Set 1 is the final build of the game.
You can find it on any rom site under Mame roms.
I'm using NeoRageX, though...
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I'm using NeoRageX, though...
why?
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I'm using NeoRageX, though...
why?
For real, NeoRageX was cool back in 2006. Yo upgrade to GGPO/fbla and delete that dos-X crap, it's a waste of space.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RipTeIkMhBc
Game A-cho put up 48 minutes of MOTW.
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I'm using NeoRageX, though...
why?
Because I can't figure out MAME...
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Because I can't figure out MAME...
Mame is simple. What are you having problems with on mame? Make sure you set your rom directory in mame then press F5 to refresh the mame list.
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Set 1 is the final build of the game.
You can find it on any rom site under Mame roms.
I'm using NeoRageX, though...
welcome back to 1997, lol.
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Because I can't figure out MAME...
Mame is simple. What are you having problems with on mame? Make sure you set your rom directory in mame then press F5 to refresh the mame list.
Figuring out the controls and the fact that most of the ROMs I download don't work.
Maybe I'm getting them from the wrong place?
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Press tab to configure the controls in game and you sure you download the neo geo roms in the mame section?
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By wrong place I meant wrong website. Of course I would download them from MAME! Though I've never tried it...
The ones that don't work are other ROMs I've tried downloading.
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By wrong place I meant wrong website. Of course I would download them from MAME! Though I've never tried it...
The ones that don't work are other ROMs I've tried downloading.
What about FBA then? Doesn't take up as many resources as mame does and pretty much all the SNK games work on it.
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By wrong place I meant wrong website. Of course I would download them from MAME! Though I've never tried it...
The ones that don't work are other ROMs I've tried downloading.
What about FBA then? Doesn't take up as many resources as mame does and pretty much all the SNK games work on it.
FBA? Is that another emulator?
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Yes. Final Burn Alpha. It's what GGPO uses.
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What would you guys say are the most important things a beginner has to learn when trying out the game for the first time and who may try to take it seriously?
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What would you guys say are the most important things a beginner has to learn when trying out the game for the first time and who may try to take it seriously?
Learn the game engine first. Things like Just Defend, Guard Cancels, Breaks and Feint Cancels. Terry is probably the best character for anyone starting. Since he relies on his FCing for combos and his break is used a lot for combos. Once you understand how those things work then you can move on to another character. The next best character to use is probably Grant since he's so simple to pick up. He also doesn't have FCs and mostly relies on links for combos.
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Kain < Terry
Any day. Every day. Yeah, I said it. SO WHAT, NOCTURNAL? Bring it on come on
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Kain < Terry
Any day. Every day. Yeah, I said it. SO WHAT, NOCTURNAL? Bring it on come on
I'm down any day :D. Terry is actually pretty good vs Kain. Both have guard crush options that lead to big damage. Overall Kain does have the advantage in the match but it depends on the players skills when they play each other.
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Know of any Freeman players I should look up and any advice about Freeman vs Kaine? One of the matches I have the most trouble with.
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Know of any Freeman players I should look up and any advice about Freeman vs Kaine? One of the matches I have the most trouble with.
Off the top of my head: Yoshimizu, Kinnoji, Mayu/Maru and Wata are the ones the check out. Here are some quick videos to check out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vG2zjBAfMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVwZw6CIyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtacXqZ2T0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysTr98Y4YO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqRQ5MRK3Ac
Freeman vs Kain is a tough match up. It depends how the Kain player is playing. If he's playing offensive you have just out poke him or GC his attacks when he tries rushing. If he just plays keep away with fireballs and things like that then you have to just try to get as close as possible to stay on top on him. Freeman's block strings are very strong once he gets inside. If they are playing defensive then you have to just bait his GC charge kick attempts. Again it all just depends on what style they are using Kain and what style you are using Freeman. Just try to bait out his charge kick when you get close cause 99.9% of the time Kain players will use charge kick on wake up.
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Kain < Terry
Any day. Every day. Yeah, I said it. SO WHAT, NOCTURNAL? Bring it on come on
I'm down any day :D. Terry is actually pretty good vs Kain. Both have guard crush options that lead to big damage. Overall Kain does have the advantage in the match but it depends on the players skills when they play each other.
I was just calling you out to be a jackass lol but I'd love to any time. I'm trying out a new grip, and I need all the practice I can get.
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I knew you were. I'm down to play whenever. We can play some RB2 also after or whatever else you feel like messing with.
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It seems DC likes RB2 more than Garou...
Makes me sad :(
But each to his own.
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http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2009/08/13/fatal-fury-10-aka-garou-mark-of-the-wolves-2-still-being-planned.htm
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That's from an old article I (maybe TRIEU) put up on snk-capcom.com. I think we put it up 2-3 years ago.
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Garou Special would of been hype, a lot of the returning characters would of gotten a lot more people interested in the game.
Raiden and Duck King were only two I knew were gonna return.
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It seems DC likes RB2 more than Garou...
Makes me sad :(
But each to his own.
There's plenty of people here that like Garou as I do myself. I just prefer RB2 personally. You outta come play with us! But I was actually thinking about planning something with Giby. Like a Fatal Fury weekend or something sometime. Still in the works though!
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yea drop your neoragex and start playing some real opponents :)
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It seems DC likes RB2 more than Garou...
Makes me sad :(
But each to his own.
There's plenty of people here that like Garou as I do myself. I just prefer RB2 personally. You outta come play with us! But I was actually thinking about planning something with Giby. Like a Fatal Fury weekend or something sometime. Still in the works though!
I suck hard at RB2. :(
I wish I had a controller. I can only do so much playing with a keyboard.
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Garou Special would of been hype, a lot of the returning characters would of gotten a lot more people interested in the game.
Raiden and Duck King were only two I knew were gonna return.
Hopefully with this KOFXIII buzz, and if the sales are looking great, we should expect to see it in the (hopefully not so distant) future...
Seems like that's the next game most players/fans want anyway after a brand new KOFXIII... No real reason to work on XIV... Crank the major titles out with love, like NRS did with MK9...
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I've played Garou casually in the past. This weekend, I went to a Smash meet-up because I heard there were some open-minded players there. One of them is a Garou player. I came home, bought the game for 360 and have spent a bit of time reading this thread and playing. I understand the love more than I ever have. I've always liked the game but, now that I'm playing it less like a Fatal Fury and exploring the mechanics, it's damned amazing.
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I've played Garou casually in the past. This weekend, I went to a Smash meet-up because I heard there were some open-minded players there. One of them is a Garou player. I came home, bought the game for 360 and have spent a bit of time reading this thread and playing. I understand the love more than I ever have. I've always liked the game but, now that I'm playing it less like a Fatal Fury and exploring the mechanics, it's damned amazing.
I may have misunderstood you, but did you say Garou is on the 360?!
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It came out 2 years ago
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It's available through XBLA. I hear the netcode is awful.
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360 version is great to train on, but the online play is possible the worst SNK online next to KOFXII.
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Way to dampen my spirits, guys :(
But it's not your fault, so I forgive you.
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Nocturnal you are a diamond in the dirt - thank you for all the time you have put into converting your experience into knowledge for other players, it really is appreciated ! i have learnt so much from this thread and your youtube channel. far more than years of jamming with my dreamcast !
Questions regarding Motion Storing:
the links to shoryuken.com on this topic don't seem to work, and on reading many many pages from the Garou threads there i couldn't find any answer to this...
recently on GGPO i was beaten by a Jenet player who consistently broke her ;dn ;df ;fd ;d (on hit, midscreen) into the ;dn+ ;d Harrier Bee very low to the ground, and i could not get it to connect in AES training myself, even with a short hop forward and the fastest fingers i could muster. i believed that an "instant" Harrier Bee was one cancelled from a backdash.
Today i tried again, and eventually found that if performing a superjump with Jenet, pressing just " ;d" a MOMENT after you input ;dn, ;uf with strict timing the ;dn+ ;d Harrier Bee comes out at ground level, presumably because the ;dn input was stored from the superjump motion and serves two functions, directly as a result of the game storing the motions. how lovely ! also i found that Dong can divekick very low with the same technique.
So my question(s) is(are), does this mean that the Harrier Bee then has superjump attributes, and is this beneficial in any way?
i am aware that characters such as Hotaru / FireFly greatly benefit from similar "TigerKnee" versions of their air moves, but are there other examples of Motion Storing (other than TK) that are not as obvious, perhaps situational / rarely seen / discussed ?
Useful nuances to the engine i find very interesting, thank you to anyone that can help.
<3 MOW
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Nocturnal you are a diamond in the dirt - thank you for all the time you have put into converting your experience into knowledge for other players, it really is appreciated ! i have learnt so much from this thread and your youtube channel. far more than years of jamming with my dreamcast !
Questions regarding Motion Storing:
the links to shoryuken.com on this topic don't seem to work, and on reading many many pages from the Garou threads there i couldn't find any answer to this...
recently on GGPO i was beaten by a Jenet player who consistently broke her ;dn ;df ;fd ;d (on hit, midscreen) into the ;dn+ ;d Harrier Bee very low to the ground, and i could not get it to connect in AES training myself, even with a short hop forward and the fastest fingers i could muster. i believed that an "instant" Harrier Bee was one cancelled from a backdash.
Today i tried again, and eventually found that if performing a superjump with Jenet, pressing just " ;d" a MOMENT after you input ;dn, ;uf with strict timing the ;dn+ ;d Harrier Bee comes out at ground level, presumably because the ;dn input was stored from the superjump motion and serves two functions, directly as a result of the game storing the motions. how lovely ! also i found that Dong can divekick very low with the same technique.
So my question(s) is(are), does this mean that the Harrier Bee then has superjump attributes, and is this beneficial in any way?
i am aware that characters such as Hotaru / FireFly greatly benefit from similar "TigerKnee" versions of their air moves, but are there other examples of Motion Storing (other than TK) that are not as obvious, perhaps situational / rarely seen / discussed ?
Useful nuances to the engine i find very interesting, thank you to anyone that can help.
<3 MOW
I believe Shoruken is doing an update on their website atm. Links should work once they restore the site hopefully. The only thing that super jump adds is slight faster start up compared to a normal jump. Besides that it's actually riskier using because you can't just defend when you super jump. As for motion storing it can be used in many situations really. You can use certain option selects with motion storing. For example lets say with Hotaru in a wake up situation. You can do ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a + ;d as the opponent is getting up, which gives you a stand ;a only. This gives her an option select on wake up. What happens if it hits then all you have to do is press ;b to activate her ;dn ;db ;bk + ;b reflector to combo from a stand ;a. That's just one option select but I think it gives you an idea of what motion storing can be used for. Same goes for option select guard cancelling. Do the motion into ;bk or ;db. If you just defend then just press the button to active the special/super. I hope that answers your question.
It's also very helpful for the more complex combos in the game.
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Thanks for answering.
I realised shoryuken is updating shortly after posting, at the time of writing i was just getting strange "compression failure" errors on loading the pages. Hopefully soon i can get back to sifting through the 90ish pages on the GetReadySurvive! thread before asking other questions that have probably been answered...
The trouble i have with the Motion Stored Guard Cancels is the speed of reacting to an attack/ stopping when there was no attack to JD, is it really possible to "confirm" the JD before committing to the cancel, if that makes sense ? To make it a safe attack.
For example, if both players are landing at the same time from an air clash or something similar and i anticipate an attack on landing, I could buffer in a special then JD as i fall and land, then GC to counter, but i don't feel like there is enough time between the JD and the GC to wait and see if the JD connects before i commit to the counterattack, (7 frames??) so at the moment im just committing either way... If they actually just land and block, i have just committed to the action and thrown out a move, which is liable to serious punishment.
Do i just need sharp reflexes to only continue when i see the JD, and not persue otherwise? Or do you need to "know" before you do it. I watch many high level matches and i can't figure if the players are all psychic, or have insane fast reactions when it comes to these situations.
many thanks :)
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Thanks for answering.
I realised shoryuken is updating shortly after posting, at the time of writing i was just getting strange "compression failure" errors on loading the pages. Hopefully soon i can get back to sifting through the 90ish pages on the GetReadySurvive! thread before asking other questions that have probably been answered...
The trouble i have with the Motion Stored Guard Cancels is the speed of reacting to an attack/ stopping when there was no attack to JD, is it really possible to "confirm" the JD before committing to the cancel, if that makes sense ? To make it a safe attack.
For example, if both players are landing at the same time from an air clash or something similar and i anticipate an attack on landing, I could buffer in a special then JD as i fall and land, then GC to counter, but i don't feel like there is enough time between the JD and the GC to wait and see if the JD connects before i commit to the counterattack, (7 frames??) so at the moment im just committing either way... If they actually just land and block, i have just committed to the action and thrown out a move, which is liable to serious punishment.
Do i just need sharp reflexes to only continue when i see the JD, and not persue otherwise? Or do you need to "know" before you do it. I watch many high level matches and i can't figure if the players are all psychic, or have insane fast reactions when it comes to these situations.
many thanks :)
You need to just look at the situation you are in and decide what is the best option really. It just depends on how the opponent reacts to what you do in certain situations. Your reaction also factors into the situation as well. If you do the motion store option select and he doesn't do anything you can still just use the any button into ;d to continue pressure etc. That way you wont get any accidental specials/supers to come out from storing the motion. You also have to realize that there are also options the opponent can use to counter your GC option select as well. It can get pretty technical though because there are so many otions you can usually do after a air to air trade and you both are landing next to each other. It depends whether you have meter or not. Also depends on the character you are using. Each character has different options during a wake up or after landing from a trade hit. So just test things out and see what works for you. Best thing to do is look at match videos and see what people tend to use in certain situations.
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Iv seen alot from your channel, and also the Aerendir Giby and yourself 4hour video was really helpful, especially in seeing a Hotaru player tear it up at the howard arena. it gives me hope when i get buried by Kevin / Jenet players.
If you do the motion store option select and he doesn't do anything you can still just use the any button into d; to continue pressure etc. That way you wont get any accidental specials/supers to come out from storing the motion
This is what i needed to hear.. back to the lab !
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Iv seen alot from your channel, and also the Aerendir Giby and yourself 4hour video was really helpful, especially in seeing a Hotaru player tear it up at the howard arena. it gives me hope when i get buried by Kevin / Jenet players.
If you do the motion store option select and he doesn't do anything you can still just use the any button into d; to continue pressure etc. That way you wont get any accidental specials/supers to come out from storing the motion
This is what i needed to hear.. back to the lab !
As long as you understand what the other characters options are the match ups become less of a pain really. It's all from the experience you get playing the game. Hotaru has the tools to give even the higher tier characters problems. I'm glad I could help though.
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I've played Garou VERY casually since I bought it for my Dreamcast in early 2002. Thanks to the info in this thread, it's pretty much the only fighter I've played in the past 2 weeks. I'm really enjoying it now that I have a much deeper understanding of the systems at play.
I've tried out the whole cast and found Dong Hwa to be the character I click with. I'm also working on Rock as a project since I find the character interesting. I'm having the hardest time mastering the vacuum toss command grab. Any words of wisdom on how to best perform this move?
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I'm having the hardest time mastering the vacuum toss command grab. Any words of wisdom on how to best perform this move?
You don't have to do the whole 360 motion, you can just do HCF+up or up forward and then punch. You can also use his AB overhead to kara cancel into it.
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You can actually kara into any of his normals or even his ;dn + ;a + ;b so you stay grounded. Like Diavle already mentioned you just need to do ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd, ;up/ ;uf + ;c and not a full 360 motion.
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Thanks! I'm pretty consistent with the vacuum toss and am working on the Brake follow up.
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You shouldn't concern yourself with doing the follow up. Depending on where you are and the angle you throw them at, you should follow up with super or ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a. If you throw them in the corner, you can follow up with a ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a into ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;k. If you throw them and they hang over your head for a bit you can follow up with a ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a\;c. If you throw them across the screen, you can either do ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a or, if you have meter, ;dn ;db ;bk + ;d followed by ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;k. If you do that right you should teleport and the opponent will be about head level, giving you enough time to pull off super and have all the hits hit.
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Speaking of Rock, I had a few questions since I haven't been able to test these out recently:
1. Can the opponent tech upon landing after getting Vacuum Tossed???
2. Is the fully charged version the Vacuum Toss break unblockable, guard breakable, or Just Defendable???
3. If the Vacuum Toss break is guard breakable, are there any guaranteed setups from this move or does this leave both opponents at some neutral state because of revocery times???
Also...
Who do you consider to be good Marco players, and what do you normally see them exhibit??? I tend to come across some matches where the player is either learning him, or trying to play him like its SF. I know I need to constantly break ;dp + ;a / ;c and his followups are situational as well, but I tend to play him with a pseudo-zone/counter mindset, doing throw/overhead mixups only on a few characters, and after picking up Grant, and Rock, I feel like when I play with Marco that I'm not using him to his full potential-- that or he's just that simple that he doesn't have anything else to him... Oh yeah, what moves should I avoid if I want to keep charging either ;c or ;d with Marco???
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TRF Garou 1 on1 Tournament(7/5/08) on Nocturnal's channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2mlUw-h3A8&feature=related
starts at (3 of 8)...im not sure who the Marco player is but he is pretty nasty.
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Speaking of Rock, I had a few questions since I haven't been able to test these out recently:
1. Can the opponent tech upon landing after getting Vacuum Tossed???
2. Is the fully charged version the Vacuum Toss break unblockable, guard breakable, or Just Defendable???
3. If the Vacuum Toss break is guard breakable, are there any guaranteed setups from this move or does this leave both opponents at some neutral state because of revocery times???
Also...
Who do you consider to be good Marco players, and what do you normally see them exhibit??? I tend to come across some matches where the player is either learning him, or trying to play him like its SF. I know I need to constantly break ;dp + ;a / ;c and his followups are situational as well, but I tend to play him with a pseudo-zone/counter mindset, doing throw/overhead mixups only on a few characters, and after picking up Grant, and Rock, I feel like when I play with Marco that I'm not using him to his full potential-- that or he's just that simple that he doesn't have anything else to him... Oh yeah, what moves should I avoid if I want to keep charging either ;c or ;d with Marco???
1. When you are getting tossed you are in a falling state so think of it as if you were knocked down and a getting up from a grab. The same rule would apply here.
2. If you fully charge Rock's ;a + ;b after his 360 grab it is unblockable because they are in a juggle state. It's mainly just used for timing when to hit them as they fall. A lot of the times it can whiff cause it has a strange hitbox. It's better to just to do his break then do a fireball or his TOP attack or his supers for more damage.
3. The only real unblockable setup you can do after his 360 grab is doing Rock's 0 frame setup. The setup is: 360 + ;c, ;a + ;b, then ;dn ;df ;fd + ;c, ;fd, ;df, ;dn ;db ;bk, ;fd + ;a (unblockable). The same rule applies here for a 0 frame setup because you are hitting them out of the air with ;dn, ;df, ;fd + ;c. As they are landing it puts in them in the 0 frame setup.
As for Marco players the best Marco in Japan right now is Tamura. He plays a very aggresive Marco style and has some nice guard crush setups with him. He uses the orange color Marco. He's in a lot of the recent matches I've uploaded recently so you can see how he uses him.
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hay how do you play as kain on ggpo. also at the end of a match should i hit restart so me and my opponet can reselect out characters
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hay how do you play as kain on ggpo. also at the end of a match should i hit restart so me and my opponet can reselect out characters
I don't get your first question. Do you mean how do you play Kain on GGPO or are you asking for my ggpo name? On GGPO you pretty much are using him the exact same way really as you would offline. I would say it's harder using Kain online cause a lot of his stuff requires strict timing.
If you and your friend are just picking different characters each time then yea you would have to reset everytime. Unless you guys play all the characters well enough you can always just do roullete to be random.
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Anyone who's around the Philly, PA area and wants to play, I'm having a monthly Garou session next Friday night (6/17). People are free to come by anytime after 7-8pm. I'm located in Glenolden, which is near the airport. Let me know if you're thinking of coming by. Otherwise, I should have a stream running.
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Any Hotaru Vs. Freeman tips? This guy destroys me on the ground and its hard to keep him out of the air.
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Any Hotaru Vs. Freeman tips? This guy destroys me on the ground and its hard to keep him out of the air.
Hotaru shouldn't have many problems vs Freeman really. The match is in her favor. She has the better air attacks overall and her air grab beats out a lot of Freeman's jump in options. If he keeps jumping at you use her ;fd, ;dn, ;df + ;b / ;d or you can use her ;dn + ;a + ;b to stop his jump in attempts. On the ground far stand ;a / ;b are good pokes to use. Also ;dn + ;c has good range and beats out a lot of normals for the most part. Her ;dn + ;a + ;b beats out all of Freeman's pokes so use it to make him think twice about sticking out normals. Besides all that just look for patterns in his strings or habits he tends to do like jump up or in during a certain string, etc. Let me know if those things work for you. If not maybe you can post a replay/video showing the person you are playing.
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hay how do you play as kain on ggpo. also at the end of a match should i hit restart so me and my opponet can reselect out characters
I don't get your first question. Do you mean how do you play Kain on GGPO or are you asking for my ggpo name? On GGPO you pretty much are using him the exact same way really as you would offline. I would say it's harder using Kain online cause a lot of his stuff requires strict timing.
If you and your friend are just picking different characters each time then yea you would have to reset everytime. Unless you guys play all the characters well enough you can always just do roullete to be random.
I'm sorry let me be more clear I can't seem to chose him on the select screen
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Highlight jae hoon then hold start, down down up up down up. If u already know this then you are just messing up the inputs.
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Yea on the arcade version you have to enter the code to use Grant or Kain. Pure posted the code for you. It's also on the third post of this thread.
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Looks like the links are still dead. I even went to the SRK thread, and the links don't work either.
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All the links died when they changed their forum software.
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The other problem also is I can't edit the first and second posts of the thread on SRK because of the new character limit added. I'll have to change the format on it again when I get a chance.
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its not ideal, however you can copypaste any older SRK links into google and use the 'cached' function to pull them up.
edit: this unfortunately does not work anymore, too much time has passed and the cached pages are replaced with nothing :(
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Yea I could do that too. I'll see what I can do though to make it a bit cleaner than before.
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At what point in a Korean or Terry corner assault can I finally attack? It seems I can only block and get killed. I was playing w/spelunker+ btw if you guys wanna know who I was fighting.
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It's that time of the month again. Anyone who's around the Philly, PA area and wants to play, I'm having my monthly Garou session this Friday night (7/15). People are free to come by anytime after 7-8pm. I'm located in Glenolden, which is near the airport. Let me know if you're thinking of coming by. Otherwise, I should have a stream running as usual.
At what point in a Korean or Terry corner assault can I finally attack? It seems I can only block and get killed. I was playing w/spelunker+ btw if you guys wanna know who I was fighting.
There's a small opening whenever Terry goes to get back in close to continue his string, usually involving either his ;fd ;fd+ ;c or a small jump ;b/ ;c. In the case of him using ;fd ;fd+ ;c, I usually use a well timed ;dn+ ;a+ ;b to beat him out of it. If I remember right, you use Hotaru? Her ;dn ;df ;fd x2 ;b/ ;d can also be used to get out of the string.
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All you have to do is mash super.....just kidding. Pretty much what jt explained. ;dn + ;a + ;b beats the ;fd, ;fd + ;c. If he jumps either kick super him (could be risky if he's expecting it) or JD into GC (depending on how low or the angle Terry hits you should determine the special/super you should GC into).
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What about Koreans and also Hoku? He just does st.D break xN until I get guard broken and there aint jack I can as far as I can see.
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What about Koreans and also Hoku? He just does st.D break xN until I get guard broken and there aint jack I can as far as I can see.
I don't get what you mean by Koreans? You talking about the Korean players or a specific thing? If he's doing the feint cancel loop with Hoku on block you wont be able to break out of it until he messes up or he guard crushes you first.
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What about Koreans and also Hoku? He just does st.D break xN until I get guard broken and there aint jack I can as far as I can see.
I don't get what you mean by Koreans? You talking about the Korean players or a specific thing? If he's doing the feint cancel loop with Hoku on block you wont be able to break out of it until he messes up or he guard crushes you first.
This is just a guess but if he's talking about feint cancel loops, I'm thinking by Koreans he's talking about Dong and Jae.
If that's the case, then the answer is pretty much the same as said for Hoku.
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Nothing related to gameplay, but you might be able to answer something that's been in my head for the longest time, Nocturnal:
How old is Hotaru?
Her win quotes always give me the impression that she's a different age
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Nothing related to gameplay, but you might be able to answer something that's been in my head for the longest time, Nocturnal:
How old is Hotaru?
Her win quotes always give me the impression that she's a different age
I have no idea. I just googled it though and it seems she's suppose to be 16 years old. I'm not good with character bios in general though.
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Hotaru is 16.
And she'll rape you.
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Hotaru is 16.
And she'll rape you.
It's only rape if it's without my consent ;) ;)
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Good evening gentlemen, after watching (nearly all) of the elive videos, im still not sure about how the corner throw bug that is mentioned at various times works.
Could someone describe which characters are affected by this if not all? Perhaps a training mode / 2player setup i can try to see how it works?
many thanks.
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Good evening gentlemen, after watching (nearly all) of the elive videos, im still not sure about how the corner throw bug that is mentioned at various times works.
Could someone describe which characters are affected by this if not all? Perhaps a training mode / 2player setup i can try to see how it works?
many thanks.
The way it works is you do a characters back throw usually with C. The only characters that can do it are Rock, Terry, Dong, Jae, Hotaru, Kevin, Jenet, Gato and Grant. The way it works is you throw someone in the corner. As they are getting up you jump and use your common crossup normal right as you are at the edge of the screen. If you do it correctly you will cross them up instead of hitting them from infront. You can practice this in training mode. Set the dummy to block and just throw them near the corner. Then do as I mentioned before. If you do it correctly the dummy should block in the opposite direction. It's pretty simple to understand but it's also good to know because it leads to 50/50 guessing games in the corner after a throw.
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We're back and better than ever. Nocturnal and I get down and dirty with a 3v3 MOTW tournament.
Check us out live!! - http://www.elive.pro/watch/5Mn88UU1AxH0 (http://www.elive.pro/watch/5Mn88UU1AxH0)
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Has that Eclipse of the SNK tournament passed yet? If it has, anyone have any results for the Garou part of the tournament?
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Garou: MOTW: 113 entries
1. Gon-chan (Hotaru)
2. akki ̄ (Jenet)
3. Amenomori (Terry)
4. Wata (Jenet)
5. Ta mura (Marco)
5. konta (Hotaru)
5. atsu (Dong Hwan)
5. naoyan (Dong Hwan)
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Thanks a ton for the Well made Guide Nocturnal, very informative and helped my game out alot, (and a little help from Shoryuken.com (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9313/yelwacko.gif))
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This guide helped me too with my B Jenet and Terry game.
Maybe I can finally beat Warrior, who knows?
;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd ;d
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Which character is considered the best turtler in the game? I know it may be hard to play that kind style in a game like this considering Just Defend pretty much negates a projectile fest, but I'm just curious cause I've realized that I've become more of a defensive player lately.
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I think any character could be played pretty defensively because of the Just Defense+Guard Cancel.
I used to think Jae Hoon was a good defensive character because of the guard point on his Shakka-Shuu and his Hien Zan + Break is real good, if your Hien Zan Break trades, you can still easily follow up with a Hou'ou Kyaku.
Lately I been playing Gato... man, this guy is like a wall almost if you play him right.
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Is there some kind of good recovery from a bad normal jump attack? I always ended up getting thrown before I can punish when the opponent is about to land.
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Is there some kind of good recovery from a bad normal jump attack? I always ended up getting thrown before I can punish when the opponent is about to land.
Sorry for the late response been pretty busy this month. Are you talking about if you do an early jump attack and hit them? or just a normal jump attack whiffing before landing? It really depends. If the opponent lands before you then he will have the advantage since you are still recovering from the jump and land. If you both are landing at the same time then you have a few options. You can try backdashing as soon as you land, reversal with a good priority special/super (risky though), you can try going for a tech if think a throw is coming. Best thing I think would be doing an option select throw + motion store. So lets say if you are Terry and you both are landing. You can do 623, tap 1 then hold it while pressing B+D right as you land. What will happen here is if they do nothing you get a down + B then you can follow up with another down + B+D into kick super. If they go for a throw you will tech because you inputed B+D together which counts as both inputs. D will let you tech throws as well not just C. If they lets say they do a reversal super then you have 2 options from it: you will JD the first hit then you can GC into dp + B/D if you just press B/D. You can also just press B/D to get a reversal B/D then break (A+B) if you think they might just block. So you get a few options just from doing the motion store input technique.
I hope that answers your question. If not just let me know your exact situation and I can give you a better break down of options to go for. Also the same tecnique applies to all the characters but you have to make sure the special you want to motion store has good priority first.
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love me some garou... getting better with the whole cast since I've last played anyone.
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I know it's been dead here but for those still interested in the game. Total Eclipse is happening this weekend. Can check the website here: http://www.classic-evo.net/~eclipse/. (http://www.classic-evo.net/~eclipse/.) There isn't anymore word on a stream yet but stay tuned I'll keep you all posted.
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A Hotaru player won it last year right?
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A Hotaru player won it last year right?
Yes Gonchan won it last year with Hotaru. Hayato won it this year with Gato.
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Not completely dead, just bought it. I'd already played MOTW, on emus. Man it's been too long. Best 10 bucks in a long while though. I'm amazed how different this game is from kof, alot more than i remember. guess i never payed attention to the fine details of FGs till recently.
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Considering all the Shoryuken links are dead, wouldn't it be a good idea to add a Garou section to the Dream Cancel wiki?
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Considering all the Shoryuken links are dead, wouldn't it be a good idea to add a Garou section to the Dream Cancel wiki?
That would be a good idea but will take sometime. I still haven't finished working on the Shoryuken wiki though -_-.
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Playing a bit of CVS2 (i'm not any good at it though) made me try to play Garou again. I mained Gato for the longest time but I'm starting to enjoy using Rock again. I know Nocturnal insists that Gato has the best AA game there is but I don't see it unless he means Guard Cancelling his QCB+B into B move.
I know Rock is considered low but he has some interesting tech. I like his counter a lot. A big problem I had was dealing with jump in pressure/mixup and Rock kinda' makes them think twice about doing that, or at least makes them try to set it up differently as his counter will whiff certain moves. I'm trying to get down his 360 without using his qcb+D move because I like using a character who has actual tick throws and isn't Kevin. I like the fact that you can use his counter on their wakeup. That's one of the big problems I have with Garou is being grabbed on wakeup. That and empty jump and grab is just not an option unless you have a command grab.
He's a good jack of all trades character and if it weren't for negative edge he'd be a little more viable. It's much harder then it should to land crB into either of his Kick Supers.
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Alot of old school fighters let you wake up into a throw if you are right next to your opponent.
Empty Jump into throws is definitely an option in Garou. If you do an empty jump and your opponent tries to block a jump-in that doesn't happen, it's a free throw attempt for you most of the time. If they try to anti-air you in any way, you can Just Defend. Or you can do an early jump attack and then throw soon as you land in front of your opponent if they didn't do anything. It's weird. I dunno. On the other hand, throw teching is usually pretty lenient in this game, it's not messed up like KOF is.
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I've tried doing that many times and for some reason empty jump throw never works. I can literally jump in and hold a direction, push them for a few seconds and I still couldn't grab them.
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I wanna get an opinion from you guys who managed to play both MOW and NGBC. I main Rock in NGBC, and I actually want to learn him in MOW (been maining Gato, Marco, and Grant for the longest). How good (or bad) is Rock in MOW compared to his other counterpart???
Also, would the translation from NGBC Rock to MOW Rock be easy or rather intermediate to difficult???
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Still loves for Garou... Nocturnal what do you think abount dong? is him worth or i have to switch to someone else.
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I've tried doing that many times and for some reason empty jump throw never works. I can literally jump in and hold a direction, push them for a few seconds and I still couldn't grab them.
I know when I throw I can't hold a direction when I do it... It's like a directional tap + C and then I get it... Plus, I think the timing changes because of the recovery from jumping, but with that I'm not sure...
I'm not really about tiers, and not to sound hypocritical when asking, but do you guys feel that Tizoc is still "viable" even though the throw glitch hurts him alot??? Just wanna hear your guys' opinion...
Also, I'm not sure if I asked this yet or at all, but what makes Kevin so friggin' top??? I have yet to see solid play from one, but when I look up Gato or B.Jenet, there's always some solid high level play on vids to watch... Is it that rare to see him in high level action???
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I think Tizoc is very viable, he has alot of really good pokes in my opinion, and even with the throw bug, it's not like he can't still use tick throw setups to be offensive and mix it up. It's just when Tizoc is on the defensive, his punishment tools are really lackluster compared to anybody else. Being able to Just Defend and Guard Cancel consistently are probably requirements to make the most of Tizoc. Plus his damage is insanely good when he nets it.
As for Kevin, reason why he's so top... he can build meter extremely quickly, he can chain multiple DM's together, his break move hits low and is very safe, if he scores any random counter hit, that's easily half a life bar or more, he's got good evasive moves, his normals are all very strong. Everything about him is good.
I'll admit though, it is kinda rare that I ever see high level gameplay from Kevin in most tournaments, I see way more Gato, Jenet or the Kim Bros.
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I could be totally off base here, but I always thought Kevin was limited to a certain extent. Whenever I had people pulling Kevin shenanigans, it was always the same ones with mostly the same setups. Compared to the Kim Bros, Gato, and Jenet, where you see a million different ways to approach using them and comboing like crazy, I always thought people would rather play high level players that were more fun. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Just a couple of JP vids I still have favorited that show some strong Kevin play; both clips are of JR (green Kevin):
http://youtu.be/jdFGPqIgtgI (http://youtu.be/jdFGPqIgtgI)
Matches at approx. 9:20, 20:00, and 26:00 (2 games in a row)
http://youtu.be/thDkH1ifRuE (http://youtu.be/thDkH1ifRuE)
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Sorry I've been out of the loop for sometime. Been busy with life and what not. I'll answer as best off the top of my head as I can.
Snip
Gato has many ways to AA his opponents of they jump in too much and are careless jumpers. Some examples: close stand ;d, ;fd + ;b, ;dn ;df ;fd x 2 + ;b/ ;d, his counter move (charge ;dn, ;up + ;c), ;dn;db ;bk + ;b/ ;d, ;b. The main thing to remember with Gato is to keep the opponent space in the range of all those normals/specials. Depending the situation is when you should use them. Yes JD does neglect a lot of these options but sooner or later they will get hit with something. Just mess around with them in a match. Also forgot to mention ;dn + ;b actually beats out a lot of early jump in normals. Easy to link into his punch super afterwards.
As for Rock yes he is low tier. He has a lot of hard matches and his vitality doesn't help him much. He's like glass. Any character in TOP mode doing a combo on Rock is painful. Yes he does have some nice tick throw setups and a few nifty corner mixups with his teleport. Besides that you have to rely on using his kick super shine knuckle to punish openings when you get one. Also you don't have to chain from ;dn + ;b his kick super. You can link it instead which is easier. You an also link from stand ;a. Almost forgot the mention. You don't have to do a full 360 input for 360 command grabs in MOTW. You only need to input: ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd, ;uf/ ;up + ;c.
Here are some common tick throw options players use with Rock:
- ;a + ;b kara 360 + ;c = This one is great cause it creates better range for the grab after a tick with a normal. You cancel the ;a + ;b somewhat late to create lower body invincibility in case they decide to go low on wake up.
- ;dn+ ;a + ;b kara 360 + ;c = This one is probably better because you are cancelling from a command normal with upper/mid invincibility. Again you can cancel it pretty late so you still get the invincibility frames, while creating some range.
Best examples of a good Rock player would be Wata. Here are a few of his many matches he has:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB409047018D65CAA&feature=view_all (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB409047018D65CAA&feature=view_all)
Still loves for Garou... Nocturnal what do you think abount dong? is him worth or i have to switch to someone else.
Dong is very good. He has a few match up issues but overall he's better than Jae options wise.
I could be totally off base here, but I always thought Kevin was limited to a certain extent. Whenever I had people pulling Kevin shenanigans, it was always the same ones with mostly the same setups. Compared to the Kim Bros, Gato, and Jenet, where you see a million different ways to approach using them and comboing like crazy, I always thought people would rather play high level players that were more fun. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Kevin can be nasty in the right hands. He Has multiple crossup options and along with a command grab it turns into a guessing game. Being able to combo into his super from any of his jumps in or dash ins makes him scary. Not to mention his meter building. Being able to guard crush you in the corner. Yes certain people do play him cookie cutter style but that wont get them far playing a good player. Like JT just posted JR is a great example of a smart Kevin player. In higher level play you have to be able to use all of Kevin's options to the fullest or you will get picked apart easy.
As for Tizoc. Yea he has the throw bug to worry about but I think he can be very strong with a good defensive style player. You have to remember the throw escape only works when they have meter or are in TOP mode. His main problem though is not having anything scary to punish openings with besides his command grabs. If you think about it all you have to really worry about are his normals and maybe his ;bk ;dn ;db + ;a/;c shenanigans. Every other special he has is slow on start up. I've won matches with Tizoc just using pokes so it's possible to win matches just very hard. I'm by no means a good Tizoc player but I know enough to use him effectively versus most of the cast. Best Tizoc players to watch are Yuji and Colossus.
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Jinxhand honestly Rock in MOTW is easier to use then NGBC. There isn't as much of delays between moves like Rock has in NGBC for me it's the difference between preforming combos in old school KOF vs XIII. In XIII there's an easier flow to it. Sorry just played NGBC seriously yesterday and finally decided to feel the difference.
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Jinxhand honestly Rock in MOTW is easier to use then NGBC. There isn't as much of delays between moves like Rock has in NGBC for me it's the difference between preforming combos in old school KOF vs XIII. In XIII there's an easier flow to it. Sorry just played NGBC seriously yesterday and finally decided to feel the difference.
Yeah I noticed the delay in NGBC, and when I combo with him in MOW, it's way easier. Plus his 360 seems to be more lenient in terms of input when playing the MOW Rock...
I'm starting to get out of my comfort zone and start learning other characters besides Gato, Grant, and Marco... I will say Freeman is so much fun to play with... I do see some weaknesses, well at least in his movelist, which I feel makes him a high risk/high reward character, because you have to rely on more guessing than other characters like Marco... Freeman has good moves, but most aren't that great from what I'm seeing so far, unless again your yomi is on point, but those are just my thoughts based on who I fight out where I'm at... I love his rekkas though, but then I play rekka characters to begin with lol (Mature, Kensou, Fei Long, Genjuro, technically Gato)...
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Hallo, I have a question about Tizoc's move Grif-Fall.
you do it after a ;fd or ;bk ;c throw, followed by ;df ;df ;c
but instead he does just a crouch C hit without hitting the fallen opponent.
Which is the right timing?
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You need to do it right as the opponent is slammed into the ground.
For what it's worth though, you get roughly the same amount of damage as his D throw.
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You need to do it right as the opponent is slammed into the ground.
For what it's worth though, you get roughly the same amount of damage as his D throw.
all right. thanks. I guess the same goes for Kim Jae Hoon's Tenchuu Zan?
I am having more trouble with those moves than the AB cancel ones....
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Hey, just picked up MOTW. I learned Rock and can do all of his setups and combos fairly easily (he just clicks for me)
But I really want to learn Gato and make him my main. Only thing is I'm struggling to find out how to make him effective. He has much less range and is much harder than Rock. Stomp cancelling is pretty hard- I can only do a stomp cancel correctly about 50% of the time. I'm also struggling to get damage with him compared to rock. It's very hard to land a super on an opponent who is jumpy. I can only seem to land combos after someone seems to whiff a dp or something. The only damage I seem to be getting is pokes, but I often get outpoked if I play that game because of his short range. I just can't figure out how to use Gato effectively, despite watching videos of successful players use him with great skill
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Is there a definitive list of Rock's mix ups that anyone would be willing to share? I'd like to incorporate his counters more effectively into my play style because as of right now I'm only using them anti-airs. Also, has any progress been made adding Garou into the wiki?
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Anybody know how to deal with Kevin? I've been using mostly Jenet, Butt, and Terry.
I feel like I can't do anything in this match-up because his standing A stops all of my pokes clean, then he is able to corner you so easily. I can't get out or deal with his break strings. It's hard to poke and play footsies against this character, and it feels like he's so safe on alot of stuff. Seems like the only way I could win is if I rush him down hard, but if I'm not careful I get blown up for it.
I could really use some insight on this character.
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Anybody know how to deal with Kevin? I've been using mostly Jenet, Butt, and Terry.
I feel like I can't do anything in this match-up because his standing A stops all of my pokes clean, then he is able to corner you so easily. I can't get out or deal with his break strings. It's hard to poke and play footsies against this character, and it feels like he's so safe on alot of stuff. Seems like the only way I could win is if I rush him down hard, but if I'm not careful I get blown up for it.
I could really use some insight on this character.
You're best chance is Jenet in this matchup. I recommend that you dash backwards and while she is in the air you divine kick so that way you evade Kevin's pokes and then strike. As for his incredibly scary block string in the corner, you can escape it with a well-timed down evasive ( ;dn ;a ;b) with just about anybody. Also, anybody with a DP can usually escape this block string, which both Butt and Terry have.
Here is some things you should probably know about Kevin though: Most players either dash up to their opponents or leap and attack. If they jump around a lot, you can easily hit them with a down evasive and connect it with a special. If he dashes a lot or spends too much time charging his meter, it would be wise to pick a projectile character or wait until he approaches you to land a grab on him. This usually works :p
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Is this game on PS3? Was asking because I can't find it on PSN. :(
I read a wiki and it said it was on PS3 unless it was on some sort of disc.