Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIV => Character Discussion => Mai Shiranui => Topic started by: desmond_kof on July 18, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
-
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
(*) = EX OK
(!) = MAX OK
Throws
Shiranui Gorin - close ;bk / ;fd + ;c
Fuusha Kuzushi - close ;bk / ;fd + ;d
Yume-Zakura - in the air, close ;bk / ;fd + ;c
Command Normals
Ukihane - in the air ;dn + ;b
Giro Tan - ;fd + ;b
Sankaku-Tobi - (near or close to edge of screen) ;uf
Special Moves
Ryuuenbu - ;qcb + ;a / ;c (*)
Kachosen - ;qcf + ;a / ;c (*)
Hisstatsu Shinobi Baichi - ;hcf + ;b / ;d *
Musasabi No Mai (front) - charge ;dn ;uf + ;a / ;c (*)
Musasabi No Mai (back) - charge ;dn ;ub or ;up + ;a / ;c (*)
Musasabi No Mai (air) - ;qcb + ;a / ;c (in air) (*)
Super Special Moves
Chou Hisstatsu Shinobi-Baichi - ;qcb ;hcf + ;b / ;d (ground or air) *(!)
Kagerou no Mai - ;qcf ;qcf + ;a/ ;c (!)
Climax Desperation Move
Shiranui-Ryuu Oogi Kunoichi - ;qcf ;hcb + ;a + ;c (ground or air)
-
Mai seems really strong in this game. I'm not ready to declare her top tier yet, but characters like Kyo, Iori, and Shun'ei will definitely have to respect her. She gains huge advantages from universal system changes and a few key character-specific buffs. This is how I read her strengths/weaknesses right now, feel free to offer your own take on her:
STRENGTHS:
- Great all-purpose normals -- jump-ins, anti-air, air-to-air, pokes, Mai has everything she needs for offense and defense.
- Great projectile (A Kacho Sen) that complements her very strong anti-air game. Jumping vs Mai is dangerous, but that fan makes even the best of us really tempted to jump...
- Amazing s.CD -- massive corner wallstick potential or just easy, safe initiative from doing s.CD > A Kacho Sen.
- Vastly improved wakeup/anti-air game via Kagero no Mai. An excellent and efficient anti-air versus jump-ins of all kinds, plus she can juggle after it if it trades (it rarely ever loses without being outright baited).
- Superb Climax Art. Justifies its high resource cost by the huge number of neutral mistakes it can punish without requiring godlike reaction time. If Mai can stock 3 bars, she locks off so many neutral options to her opponent with just the threat of this move. Anchor Mai is legitimate now.
- Great MAX mode utility. EX Kacho Sen in particular is a big case for popping raw MAX mode with Mai due to the number of mixups or at least approaches it protects for only 1 bar.
WEAKNESSES:
- Still no meterless reversal -- much less of a limitation than it used to be, given her other strengths.
- No ground overhead for MAX cancels. Not a big deal at all given her zoning power.
- Can't combo to hcf+B/D on crouching opponents -- usually not a big deal since she has ample hit-confirm tools to check for crouching before she commits. And for 1 bar she can just do a MAX cancel combo to EX Ryuu Enbu and ignore the issue altogether.
- Um...Iori's still in the game? That's all I got, really.
-
Jump B and D are ok cross-ups buttons for her. Especially hop B.
-
Tested some stuff with her tonight and she gets stupider (in a good way) with every minute I spend in the lab.
Ukihane (j.d+B) inflicts RIDICULOUS blockstun; I kept trying to get blocked by the dummy in a really unsafe way and with 1-guard jump + standing block in a Mai mirror I was unable to observe any situation where Mai was worse than neutral on block. NEUTRAL! If this move does not flat-out miss the opponent it's 100% safe AFAIK. Hop, full jump, late, early, doesn't even matter. Go nuts with this move if you think it won't miss or get DP'ed/supered. NerdJosh's instincts were right on target.
Mai recovers fast enough from uncancelled corner s.CD to link c.C afterwards. So you don't need to rely on linking from an A Kacho Sen, which is good, because if you're too close when you CD, the fan will miss. And of course raw CD is still plus as hell on block, so there's no consequence except guard cancels and invincible moves for going nuts with it.
Tigerknee Musasabi no Mai is also actually safe to plus on block if you're blocked (stand blocked) any later than the top of the opponent's head (riskier against tall characters, probably). TK right in their face is slightly plus on block, but of course that cries out "please hit me out of the startup". So an occasional shenanigan, no chance of Mai turning into 13 Yuri on the divekick front.
EX charge walldive has projectile invul on startup. Dunno yet if it lasts all the way to the wall since most of the fireball moves in this game are low to the ground. Where's King air Venom Strike when you need it? (RIP)
hcf+K 2nd hit is actually plus on block on crouch guard. Like, significantly so. But that doesn't matter cause all you need to do to avoid that situation is stand up while blocking the 1st hit and then she's -9,999 like you'd expect.
-
It should also be mentioned, even though a lot of ppl may disagree with me on this one: Mai's little Rush autocombo is actually WORTH USING for her. For a combo heavy character like Kyo or Iori, yeah ok you gain absolutely nothing from the little auto combos that you cannot instantly do better on.
But Mai has no little tappy combo like that by default. I can't help but think that the 2nd and 3rd hits of her autocombo should be a f+B command attack... IMMENSE crying shame that it isn't.
But because Mai has no little tappytap combos, if you're looking for 'quick and dirty damage' this is it. This will let you effectively have a 3 hit hitconfirm, after which you can opt to let it eat 1 stock for quick DM damage or to let it go.
A lot of ppl may scoff at the Rush combos but pay attention to what the devs have said. They INTEND for these to be USED. It will be unavoidable with the more combo heavy characters that the Rush combo may well have extremely negligable value (ie you'd never use it with Kyo, not when you can have a safer hitconfirm from simply dB dA qcf+B,B)... But with other non combo heavy or zoner types, don't be so quick to write it off.
-
Ok so I updated Mai's Wiki page with a few combos. I am far from done working on that, there is plenty more I need to post there. I will update the combo section more after I get home from work.
-
It should also be mentioned, even though a lot of ppl may disagree with me on this one: Mai's little Rush autocombo is actually WORTH USING for her. For a combo heavy character like Kyo or Iori, yeah ok you gain absolutely nothing from the little auto combos that you cannot instantly do better on.
I disagree with this, actually. I tried Mai's Rush combo in the lab and unlike KoD's surprisingly good one (IDK why it's plus on block but KOD kinda needs whatever he can get), Mai's has nothing to really recommend for it. The 2nd and 3rd hits are both unsafe on block, and IMO the meterless route to low-height Musasabi no Mai isn't worth it. Remember that one of the goals of a hit-confirm is not just to give you time to recognize that you're hitting the opponent, but also to be safe on block. Mai's Rush Combo doesn't satisfy the 2nd condition because unless you have 0 meter for Musasabi no Mai, there's no way to be safe without stopping at close A (which you really should).
Also, no offense to the SNK devs (they really ARE doing a bang-up job with this game), but just because they INTEND for something to be used doesn't guarantee that it IS useful. Some Rush combos like KoD's are surprisingly useful, but I tested Mai's to look for hidden gold and I'm pretty sure there is none. You're much better off doing c.B > c.A > qcb+C, or even c.B > close B,D > hcf+D (target combo is unsafe, but you can stop at close B, which is safe and still cancellable).
If you want "quick and dirty" damage with Mai, all you really gotta do is stock 1 bar for MAX cancels. Mai's midscreen meterless combos are admittedly ho-hum, but she has much better corner options (s.CD wallstick, qcb+A resets). But a simple MAX-Cancel combo with Mai to qcb+AC > hcf+BD does tons of corner carry and very decent damage.
-
https://youtu.be/LKSvLXgZdP0
Nice combo video.
-
This is a very stample 5 bars combo for Mai. All new Mai players should start from here.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz_mUNwuorI#)
-
I disagree with this, actually. I tried Mai's Rush combo in the lab and unlike KoD's surprisingly good one (IDK why it's plus on block but KOD kinda needs whatever he can get), Mai's has nothing to really recommend for it. The 2nd and 3rd hits are both unsafe on block, and IMO the meterless route to low-height Musasabi no Mai isn't worth it. Remember that one of the goals of a hit-confirm is not just to give you time to recognize that you're hitting the opponent, but also to be safe on block. Mai's Rush Combo doesn't satisfy the 2nd condition because unless you have 0 meter for Musasabi no Mai, there's no way to be safe without stopping at close A (which you really should).
Also, no offense to the SNK devs (they really ARE doing a bang-up job with this game), but just because they INTEND for something to be used doesn't guarantee that it IS useful. Some Rush combos like KoD's are surprisingly useful, but I tested Mai's to look for hidden gold and I'm pretty sure there is none. You're much better off doing c.B > c.A > qcb+C, or even c.B > close B,D > hcf+D (target combo is unsafe, but you can stop at close B, which is safe and still cancellable).
If you want "quick and dirty" damage with Mai, all you really gotta do is stock 1 bar for MAX cancels. Mai's midscreen meterless combos are admittedly ho-hum, but she has much better corner options (s.CD wallstick, qcb+A resets). But a simple MAX-Cancel combo with Mai to qcb+AC > hcf+BD does tons of corner carry and very decent damage.
Fair enough, I did a bit more testing and yeah, the 3rd hit is unsafe. For a while I thought the amt of blockstun actually made it just safe enough but nope, I'm wrong here.
Shame tho, if it did just a bit more pushback it'd be safe enough to use, making it quite useful.
Also, I had NO IDEA she had that B,D target combo! Its not listed anywhere in the movelist that I can see. That target combo effectively gives her a command move that she lacks and is quite useful. Great find, it needs to be added to the movelist as it really can open up options. The immediate most obvious gain is it gives her a hitconfirm option into MAX mode, which is worth its weight in gold as doing B,D max, B,D is a LOT better than C, MAX, C.
-
I dunno about the damage scaling on the target combo yet; it may deal less damage than C > MAX > C despite doing more hits. But I'll have to check later cause I'm at work right now.
She had a target combo like it in 13, but they've both nerfed and buffed it (net buff) for this version. It can no longer start from far B, so your hit-confirms can't be as long, but it's now special-cancellable no matter what.
-
Yes, exactly. B>D is better to start, but from what I have seen in combo videos it is better to continue after MAX acticvation with C or with her C+D splat, which can lead into many combo options.
-
I dunno about the damage scaling on the target combo yet; it may deal less damage than C > MAX > C despite doing more hits. But I'll have to check later cause I'm at work right now.
She had a target combo like it in 13, but they've both nerfed and buffed it (net buff) for this version. It can no longer start from far B, so your hit-confirms can't be as long, but it's now special-cancellable no matter what.
cB,B,D if possible or simply B,D is definitely the opener of choice for MAX. Its just far easier and gives you a bit of breathing room. The other thing to check is does her close B hit low? Its been ages since I touched XIII and I can't remember, can't check now coz I'm at work.
The fact that the target combo is cancellable into anything now makes it useful. I for one do not understand Capcom's mindset where they give everyone a TC in SFV but over 70% of them cannot be used to combo... I just do not understand the logic...
-
Mai hits like a truck for 2 bars and little execution (%53 to 60%):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop)
-
So I did a combo that did 720 damage.
j.C, cl.C, BC, CD, cl.C, hcf+BD, qcb+AC, qcb+C, SC, qcb,hcf+B/D, CC, qcf,hcb+AC (720 DMG)
This takes 5 bars and is corner only.
-
My Mai bounce combo (mid screen) 2 meter 516 DMG <3 <3
Note* if Mai is 1st or 2nd member it take 3 meter Y__Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA2XGxizl_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA2XGxizl_A)
I hope u enjoy it :D
-
Mai hits like a truck for 2 bars and little execution (%53 to 60%):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYkYd1jxM5s&app=desktop)
Haha, yep, that's going on the wiki if nobody else beats me to it (you're welcome to do so if you have the ability).
-
Ben Reed. Mai can combo into hcf+D from her target combo on crouchers, and I'd suggest either qcf+p or qcb+A on after a blocked target although you need to be careful of invul and projectile invul moves if you follow with qcf+A
-
Yeah, D Ninja Bees combos properly regardless of standing or crouching. B version doesn't. That's why all the wiki combos have hcf+D in there.
B>D>qcb+A should be a true blockstring (though vulnerable to guard cancels). B>D>qcf+A should be the only safe string with a gap big enough to escape blockstun. But you're right, the target combo has several ways to be safe on block. However, you have to mix it up with other strings, or smarter opponents WILL figure you out and guard-cancel roll to either escape or possibly punish you (I haven't tested to see how unsafe it is yet...might be hard to punish depending on how fast the D retracts).
-
who said Mai lag of damage .. no check my new Mai combo clip , she do nearly 700 with 2 meter only !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR8F-UXymjg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR8F-UXymjg)
-
CRAZY.
https://twitter.com/aya_fujimiya/status/757094254501998592
-
The Kagero no Mai juggle into itself is cute, but not that huge. 5 bars for 50% damage, and one of the few characters who can even get high enough on the screen to exploit that property is Mai herself. But it's okay that it's just a gimmick, because Mai deals plenty of damage from other stuff anyway.
I'm not sure the combo Mekikung posted works with Mai as 1st character -- I think you burn thru MAX mode too quickly since the CD wallstick adds some time -- but if you put Mai as 3rd it absolutely works. (Probably 2nd, too, but I haven't checked yet.) You can get a combo almost as damaging with Mai as 1st character if you omit the st.CD and just go straight to cl.C/cl.D > qcb+A after the MAX cancel.
-
I'm not sure the combo Mekikung posted works with Mai as 1st character -- I think you burn thru MAX mode too quickly since the CD wallstick adds some time -- but if you put Mai as 3rd it absolutely works. (Probably 2nd, too, but I haven't checked yet.) You can get a combo almost as damaging with Mai as 1st character if you omit the st.CD and just go straight to cl.C/cl.D > qcb+A after the MAX cancel.
I checked already . this combo can do in 2nd and 3rd . u need to spend 3 meter for 1st or use regular Kagero no mai after HP ryuenbu (545 damage)
-
I took stills of Mai's Normals for any who are interested in using them. https://flic.kr/s/aHskDUtgQa
-
Frame data is up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SbxqFBv7oSwa3CRJbM0UqP0w7LMoL5r2IGIvzca5aMw/edit?usp=sharing
-
Here's a Mai crossup shenanigan I kinda like, but most of the reward seems to be biased towards one side of it. Here's how it works:
s.CD > wait > MAX (raw activate), qcf+AC > d~u+AC (immediately, to wall behind opponent, hold for walldive attack)
This makes the 1st hit of the EX fan cross up. In order to block the fan, the opponent has to hold forward on their wakeup. Since the crossup timing happens when Mai performs the walldive immediately after the fan recovers, there's no time to wait and react to see if she does it -- you just have to hold forward on faith.
PROS:
+ Fan crosses up -- guaranteed to hit anybody who doesn't know about it yet
+ Sequence starts a combo if timed properly
+ EX walldive attack is completely safe on block (plus)
+ Crossup is unreactable, you just have to hold forward and assume Mai will commit to the crossup by immediately walldiving. If you start at back and try to switch to forward on reaction to the walldive, you will get hit and Mai gets the combo because it's autopilot.
CONS:
- Safe if fan is blocked, but you go back to neutral because opponent can escape 2nd hit and Mai's not close enough to punish jump back/backdash without Climax Art (expensive)
- There's a gap between the fan and the walldive if the opponent crouch blocks the fan. Otherwise, the fan -> walldive is a true blockstring, because the 1st hit of the EX walldive gets stand blocked.
- If you don't walldive off the fan to make the fan fake-crossup (opponent holds forward and takes the fan to the face), there's no way to combo without immediate YOLO Climax Art (I think, need to double-check). The fan almost certainly won't protect a blocked Climax from punishment, particularly if the opponent guard-cancel rolls.
- Doesn't work against cornered opponent (but that's okay, because the opponent is cornered and there's other, higher-reward stuff available)
- Universally punishable by two methods: (1) guard-cancel roll the fan's 1st hit fiorward, then whiff punish Mai's walldive, or (2) reversal roll the fan, which is legitimately difficult. If you're playing a character such as Mai who has an invulnerable super that hits above her, you might be able to super thru the meaty fan to hit Mai as she flies overhead, but the rapid-fire crossup can make buffering the command legitimately difficult.
- Does not loop the setup back into itself from what I can tell; maybe if you end with super for a hard knockdown, but that's expensive since you have to burn another bar right after to reactivate.
tl;dr if the opponent gets hit by the crossup fan, you get a combo. If the opponent blocks the crossup fan, you're safe if the opponent does not guard-cancel roll the fan (disclaimer: so long as you block the fan, that's not hard). But if you make the fan fake crossup by not doing the walldive or doing a delayed walldive (or other action), you can't do a true combo on hit, and there are way more holes to escape through. So it's a one-sided shenanigan, but it'll almost certainly work 1-2 times before the opponent learns how it works, lol.
-
Mai's safe jumps against Kyo. You can try them out against other characters, but I can not guarantee that they will work.
1. A 2 bar corner combo into safe-jump: Starter combo into quick max, cl. C, qcb+A, qcb+AC, qcb+C (2 hits), qcf(x2)+AC, b+AB (back roll), fowrward jump, air db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaTA3hOWwGg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaTA3hOWwGg)
2. A 2 bar anywhere combo into safe-jump. Starter combo into quick max, cl. C, qcb+AC, qcb+A, qcf(x2)+AC, AB, vertical short-hop, air db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5yDkChoXQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm5yDkChoXQ)
- The safe-jump will beat Kyo's dp+A, which will give Mai a counter hit. The safe-jump will lose to Kyo's Ex dp, which has invincible start-up. Both Kyo's dp+A and ex dp have 4 frames of start-up, but the ex dp's start-up frames are invincible.
3. A 1 Bar Mid-screen combo reset into safe-jump. Starter combo into quick max, cl. C, qcb+AC, hcf+BD, cl. A, hyper hop, air db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXGJ4cL_ug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXGJ4cL_ug)
- Same as #2.
4. Regular D grab into safe-jump. Works anywhere on the screen. Regular cl. D grab, forward hyper hop, air db+D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UFVXdiQcSk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UFVXdiQcSk)
-
Has anyone had much success using Climax Cancels for Mai? I haven't found a 4 or 5 bar meter combo that's really work the extra 1 or 2 meter. 3 seems to be all she needs; i can only squeeze out maybe 20-40 extra damage.
-
There is supposed to be a day 1 patch. IDK what will change though.
-
Ugh. Looks like her qcb A > qcb AC combo doesn't work on smaller characters like Tung and Chin.
-
By Coliflowerz
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8v93sqEgU#)
-
Ugh. Looks like her qcb A > qcb AC combo doesn't work on smaller characters like Tung and Chin.
Is this a corner combo? What i do is qcb A, qcb AC, qcb C DM
-
Cool crossup setups using EX fan and EX wall dive
https://twitter.com/BrittMcGuire80/status/795721847853711361
-
Made this vid back in August 2016. Mai is being played as the anchor in this vid.
https://youtu.be/LW_0Mq6sBdE
-
Mainly impractical and hopefully crazy stuff
KOF XIV Mai Shiranui combo exhibition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6_zNuqa71U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6_zNuqa71U)
Enjoy!
-
Mai winquotes
English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quj0rY6pA3M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quj0rY6pA3M)
Spanish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAWNJNnikEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAWNJNnikEI)