Dream Cancel Forum
Sakazaki Dojo => Training Room => Topic started by: Remzi on June 29, 2011, 10:06:30 AM
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Buffering is an important part to combos in the KOF series. It allows you to save previous inputs for use in later inputs, making many combos far easier, and making certain combos that were previously impossible, possible.
An example would be Terry Bogard's simple 2C 3C 6 236D.
This works by saving 2C 3C 6 as 236, while also doing the inputs. Directly after said inputs, 236D will take the buffered 236 input as 236236D, allowing you to execute a combo directly into his DM without much effort. Without buffering, doing 2C 3C 236236D would be extremely difficult, nearly impossible.
Another example would be King's typical Maxmode activation (2002UM), which is fairly difficult without buffering a bit.
With buffering : 6C 3D 214 BC
Without buffering : 5C 3D BC 63214C
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Numeric notation hurts my brain.
2C 3C 6 236D = d.C, df+C, f, qcf+D, for those challenged like me.
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dude I thought I was the only one!! I know what they mean but it's like my brain goes aaaaaah!!! LOL
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I personally like numbers better, but I am in accounting after all lol...
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dude I thought I was the only one!! I know what they mean but it's like my brain goes aaaaaah!!! LOL
I'm constantly thankful that my new laptop has a numpad on it. I'm a graphic designer so I never use the numpad so it's constantly a mystery to me. Also, if a move is 6A and I'm facing right, shit's wrong. f+A is always the same since it's in context to the character.
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I personally like numbers better, but I am in accounting after all lol...
Pros and Cons. The good thing about numbers, it's universal so it helps when you're talking to non-English speakers. The bad thing about the numbers, it's character side specific (1p) and hence the qcf notations are more descriptive.
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Both systems make sense to me. I prefer letters since they tend to take up less space (aside from some weird motions like pretzel or K9999's freak arm), even though I think numbers are objectively better since they don't require a separate legend to understand and aren't restricted to common movements.
I'm constantly thankful that my new laptop has a numpad on it. I'm a graphic designer so I never use the numpad so it's constantly a mystery to me. Also, if a move is 6A and I'm facing right, shit's wrong. f+A is always the same since it's in context to the character.
Come on, man. That's like saying you can't understand 360 in number notation because your stick can't reach the "0" position. 6 means forward, not right.
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You get used to it, as there's only so many variations of special and super inputs. Eventually you get to the point where you're not staring at every single number, and figuring out which direction it is. Also, the number system is easier to type out for me, as abbreviations and notations are inconsistent from person to person.
Example: crouching D=cr. D=c.D=cD=d+D
I've seen all that posted on the same thread once. It's pretty annoying.
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I'm constantly thankful that my new laptop has a numpad on it. I'm a graphic designer so I never use the numpad so it's constantly a mystery to me. Also, if a move is 6A and I'm facing right, shit's wrong. f+A is always the same since it's in context to the character.
Come on, man. That's like saying you can't understand 360 in number notation because your stick can't reach the "0" position. 6 means forward, not right.
You just "come on'd" the admin! You're going to be on a careful watch hehe j/k =)
qcf/hcf/ notation has been used for 13+ years in KOF english speaking forums/mailing lists. I agree we need to standardize the d.B/c.B/d+B stuff but that's just a matter of time.
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Come on, man. That's like saying you can't understand 360 in number notation because your stick can't reach the "0" position. 6 means forward, not right.
Sorry, dude, I've never gotten used to numeric notation. I always have to stop and think about what's being said.
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Games you play, country origin, and amount of communication with foreigners often dictates what style you use.
Buffering topic is dead. :(
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Come on, man. That's like saying you can't understand 360 in number notation because your stick can't reach the "0" position. 6 means forward, not right.
Sorry, dude, I've never gotten used to numeric notation. I always have to stop and think about what's being said.
We're old man haha, we gotta stop and think about it (me too).
Games you play, country origin, and amount of communication with foreigners often dictates what style you use.
Buffering topic is dead. :(
Buttons can also be buffered like Ash's ABCD or Shen's CABC. Basically you can press the first three buttons as fast as you like, and just press the last to finish it (Shen can do CAB, dash slightly, C). There, thread moves on.
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I've noticed that in most videos Kyo's aerial Orochinagi is done after rdp+k. Does this mean that can be performed by: rdp+k, b, hcf+p?
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Nilcam, I wouldn't doubt it. It seems like something that can be cancel'd with a buffer very easily.
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I've noticed that in most videos Kyo's aerial Orochinagi is done after rdp+k. Does this mean that can be performed by: rdp+k, b, hcf+p?
I always input that as qcb x2 + B, hcf + P. I know that's technically more motions, but for some reason it makes it much easier for me.
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Come on, man. That's like saying you can't understand 360 in number notation because your stick can't reach the "0" position. 6 means forward, not right.
Sorry, dude, I've never gotten used to numeric notation. I always have to stop and think about what's being said.
Not being used to the number notations is understandable (it took me about 2 or 3 years before I was as comfortable with them as I was with descriptive motions). What I was "come on'd" was the implication that the number notation is wrong if you're on p2 side. Like, the character specific threads on this forum all use arrow notations, and everyone seems to get that a right arrow isn't really right, it's forward. It's the same idea, only (IMO) less confusing because you have to mentally convert numbers or descriptive motions into actual stick movements, whereas arrows are already showing the stick movements to you (I know this sounds like a silly distinction, but I can't count how many times I was getting frustrated in challenge modes for games like Blazblue or MvC3 because my specials weren't coming out properly, only to remember that the game doesn't switch its arrow notations when you switch sides).
On the topic of buffering, though, I've got a question. Is there any surefire way to clear the input buffer to avoid accidentally getting moves that you didn't want? Like, hypothetically, if I want to do qcf+B, (DC) qcf+A with a character who also has a qcfx2+A DM, it there a way to make sure that the DM doesn't come out by accident aside from just trying to delay a bit between the motions?
Or, alternatively, is there a way of stopping a special from coming out even if you did the motion for it? Like, if I want to use cr.B, s.A, (hit confirm) qcfx2+A with a character who also has a qcf+A move, is there a way to buffer the first qcf before the s.A without getting the special by mistake? This is probably the more likely situation. I know in MotW you can use qcf+AD and only s.A will come out, so the above string could be done as cr.B, qcf+AD, (hit confirm) qcf+A, but I don't recall that working in any KOF.
I've noticed that in most videos Kyo's aerial Orochinagi is done after rdp+k. Does this mean that can be performed by: rdp+k, b, hcf+p?
I always input that as qcb x2 + B, hcf + P. I know that's technically more motions, but for some reason it makes it much easier for me.
Couldn't you also do qcbx2+B, f+P? I'm pretty sure qcbx2~f is an alternate input for qcb,hcf (at least it works in 2002UM).
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I've noticed that in most videos Kyo's aerial Orochinagi is done after rdp+k. Does this mean that can be performed by: rdp+k, b, hcf+p?
I always input that as qcb x2 + B, hcf + P. I know that's technically more motions, but for some reason it makes it much easier for me.
Or simply qcb x2~f+P explained in the Systems/Gameplay thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359). So in theory: rdp+K, qcb~f+P should work although the rdp+K gives it plenty of time to be manually inputted.
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I've noticed that in most videos Kyo's aerial Orochinagi is done after rdp+k. Does this mean that can be performed by: rdp+k, b, hcf+p?
I just do that shit raw, rdp + b, qcb, hcf + P.
As far as numeric and letter notation, it depends on the game. For KOF, I prefer letters, for Melty Blood, Guilty Gear or Arcana Heart type games, I like numbers.
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@omageryuji: That comment was just me being silly. A friend of mine once told me about trying to learn Tekken with a friend who knew how to play and the dude was actually speaking in numeric. He was saying stuff like you have to 6C that which confused my friend who was player 2.
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Oh, sorry, I can be pretty dense about jokes *laughs* . That's odd about using numeric when speaking, though...or with Tekken, for that matter (aren't the button inputs usually called 1,2,3,4 in that series?).
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My favorite buffer has always been Goro 98 [Near opponent] 63214C,3C,63214C. Probably because it's the first buffer/shortcut I learned and I was like 'What?! you can do that?! OMFG!"
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On the topic of buffering, though, I've got a question. Is there any surefire way to clear the input buffer to avoid accidentally getting moves that you didn't want? Like, hypothetically, if I want to do qcf+B, (DC) qcf+A with a character who also has a qcfx2+A DM, it there a way to make sure that the DM doesn't come out by accident aside from just trying to delay a bit between the motions?
If the start of that qcf+B immediately hit-confirms, the input can be done as qcf+B, A. After B is pressing quickly tap A. In kof XIII, not all characters can buffer two moves into one input outside of Hyper drive.
So far, I know the characters that can buffer particulars moves outside of HD are:
Yuri, Ash, Terry, and maybe Iori.
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Ah, nice. What about a way to do qcb+B, (DC) hcf+B with no chance of getting qcb+B, (SC) qcb,hcf+B? This was something that I think I came across in 2002 with Mature (trying to do qcb+B,hcf+B loops in BC mode)...doesn't really apply to her in XIII since she lost Decide, but it'd still be good to know a safer way of doing the input.
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I just do that shit raw, rdp + b, qcb, hcf + P.
As far as numeric and letter notation, it depends on the game. For KOF, I prefer letters, for Melty Blood, Guilty Gear or Arcana Heart type games, I like numbers.
I do it the same way. It's easier for stuff like that without buffering, unless it's extremely tight in the cancel ranges.
I prefer numbers in general, prolly because the first fighting game I got decent at was MBAC / MBAA.
I still hate the "jab" / "strong" notation in SF. It's WAY HARDER TO READ and takes a big longer to type. It's such a waste.
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In SF ppl just do jab=lp, strong=mp, fierce=fp etc.
One annoying thing for me in KOF98 and 2002 is with Iori or Chris doing cr.b, cr.a, into f+A. Sometimes a qcf+A comes out, hahaha.
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jab = one extra letter. strong = three extra letters. fierce = four extra letters. It's a waste of space when you can just do "LP" / "HK" / "MP" type of thing.
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I just use JP, SP, FP, SK, FK, RK for capcom games <.<
One annoying thing for me in KOF98 and 2002 is with Iori or Chris doing cr.b, cr.a, into f+A. Sometimes a qcf+A comes out, hahaha.
I used to have that problem, but what I've been doing to get around it is either 1) if I'm poking when I'm already on offense, hold the stick at ;df during the crouching attacks so that I can roll to ;fd without doing a qcf, or 2) if I'm poking when I was just blocking something first, do the light attacks from ;db, then release the stick so it goes to neutral and push it straight to ;fd for the f+A.
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Having issues with 2(button) 6(button) means you're not resetting the stick to neutral.
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Few things I've had a problem with lately is doing a drag punch from down forward position or pretty much everything. With characters Terry in KoF, the timing for doing a standing C into a df.C is okay (though admittedly I've screwed it up in the heat of the moment.) What I have a problem doing is maybe a super, or even a qcf, qcb motion becomes difficult to get out. My greatest challenge is just holding the stick too hard. Feels like my hand is frozen in the motions and I can't do it.
The way I do things like Standing C, df.C, hcb B+D for Maxima is I tap down forward and let go. I quickly do the half-circle back and it'll connect. That works for Maxima, but things like Terry's burning knuckle or power wave have weird timing. What I'm trying to ask is: What's the best way to get a df.C into any follow up? Is letting the stick return to neutral the best?
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What's the best way to get a df.C into any follow up?
Uh, 2C 3C and you can just do 6C for a projectile, or you can do 6236D, or maybe even ~8C depending on how long 2C was held.
Returning to neutral isn't that great unless depending on the motion.
There's a glitch (or something) that disables inputs while you hold a button down. If you're going to do something like 2C 6B and don't want to reset it to neutral, hold C until you move the stick to 6. Not sure how relevant it is to KOFXIII, as I've never actually touched it so far, but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't have been removed.
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What's the best way to get a df.C into any follow up?
Uh, 2C 3C and you can just do 6C for a projectile, or you can do 6236D, or maybe even ~8C depending on how long 2C was held.
Returning to neutral isn't that great unless depending on the motion.
There's a glitch (or something) that disables inputs while you hold a button down. If you're going to do something like 2C 6B and don't want to reset it to neutral, hold C until you move the stick to 6. Not sure how relevant it is to KOFXIII, as I've never actually touched it so far, but I'm fairly certain it wouldn't have been removed.
You speak of the "Sticky Method", I dunno if they still have it in XIII, I must test it out the next time I'm out in the arcade.
For those who aren't familiar: In '98 (and various other years), characters like Iori and Takuma who both have qcf+P motions (projectiles) had a hard time doing d.B, d.A, f+A, qcf~hcb+P DMs as the f+A would often caused them to do a projectile instead.
IIRC, the trick was to disable the buffering by holding down the B. So d.B (hold B), d.A, qcf+A (does a f.A) (release B), hcb+P.
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You speak of the "Sticky Method", I dunno if they still have it in XIII, I must test it out the next time I'm out in the arcade.
For those who aren't familiar: In '98 (and various other years), characters like Iori and Takuma who both have qcf+P motions (projectiles) had a hard time doing d.B, d.A, f+A, qcf~hcb+P DMs as the f+A would often caused them to do a projectile instead.
IIRC, the trick was to disable the buffering by holding down the B. So d.B (hold B), d.A, qcf+A (does a f.A) (release B), hcb+P.
What you said.
You can hold down any button for it to work though. It's mostly KOF-specific, though. You can't apply the same method to NGBC / LB2 / Other SNK games.
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You speak of the "Sticky Method", I dunno if they still have it in XIII, I must test it out the next time I'm out in the arcade.
It works. I actually had a problem doing a similar combo that O.Chris does: 2B 2A 6A Orochinagi
What would happen is going from 2A to 6A, I would always do the fireball instead. Thanks for the tip, guys. This is the first time I heard of this.