Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Vice => Topic started by: nilcam on July 27, 2010, 02:46:41 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/vice.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
Death Blow - ;bk / ;fd+ ;c / ;d
Command Moves
Dokken - ;fd + ;a
Special Moves
Splash - ;dp + ;a / ;c *
Mayhem - ;qcb + ;a / ;c
∟;qcf + ;a / ;c (Splash - EX only) *
Deicide - ;hcf + ;b / ;d *
GoreFest - ;hcb ;fd + ;a / ;c *
Desperation Moves
Negative Gain - ;hcb x2 + ;b / ;d *
Overkill - ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;uf ;up ;dn + ;a / ;c (in air)
Neomax
Awakening Blood - ;qcb ;hcf + ;a ;c
Vice's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vice_(XIII)).
Console changes:
- (shown in video) Strong version of Mayhem has le
ss lag. If you hit with the edge of it you can do a strong attack as a followup.
- (shown in video) Added a new chain combo D -> D. Only cancellable in HD mode.
- jump CD is faster.
- (shown in video) EX Mayhem has faster startup.
- (shown in video) Strong version of Decide can be comboed into the Strong version of Mayhem.
- EX Decide has less lag and is easier to followup with normal attacks.
- (shown in video) Splash (including the followup version) can be super cancelled into Overkill AFTER it hits.
- (shown in video) Overkill can be MAX Cancelled.
- Overkill’s command has been made easier. If the last input is in any downward direction it will register.
- Damage adjustments:
* Her f+A (when cancelled) does 45 damage (down from 70)
* Her Overkill does 200 damage (down from 220)
* Her EX Mayhem does 120 damage (down from 160)
Yamamoto – She’s received a number of damage nerfs, but in exchange she has a lot more combo opportunities making the nerfs not so noticeable. Her air game has especially improved with her jump CD, EX Decide can be used afterwards to follow up.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxoqqRXbk_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUkND-u59k
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Has anyone gotten playtime down with Vice yet?
If so, thoughts about her?
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i've spent some time with vice (around like 7 or 8 hours), and she's really hard to use. i'm still not used to the feeling of the grappling system in this game yet, so i haven't really landed too many of her command grabs. with that said, splash has caught a lot of people off guard, and she has some really solid normals both in the air and on the ground. she can combo decide into her other command grab, as well as her grab DM, and can combo into decide from certain normals, so as soon as execution isn't an issue anymore, she'll be able to do some serious damage. i'm very optimistic about vice
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i've spent some time with vice (around like 7 or 8 hours), and she's really hard to use. i'm still not used to the feeling of the grappling system in this game yet, so i haven't really landed too many of her command grabs. with that said, splash gas caught a lot of people off guard, and she has some really solid normals both in the air and on the ground. she can combo decide into her other command grab, as well as her grab DM, and can combo into decide from certain normals, so as soon as execution isn't an issue anymore, she'll be able to do some serious damage. i'm very optimistic about vice
David, I stand corrected about the options after Decide (hcf+K), the BBS said you can't follow up anything other than command grabs but Arcadia is saying you can do s.C/D --> f+A --> into whatever. Doesn't make sense to me coz that would an infinite but we just have to test it out.
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IIRC... it said that the EX version of decide let u link a "s.C" afterwards... while the regular version just lets u land a command grab...
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Oh yeah Mayhem has an EX, but the Splash afterwards doesn't
Training Mode videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUkND-u59k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxoqqRXbk_U
Technical Reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCabeLhO2_o#t=7m37s
i've spent some time with vice (around like 7 or 8 hours), and she's really hard to use. i'm still not used to the feeling of the grappling system in this game yet, so i haven't really landed too many of her command grabs. with that said, splash has caught a lot of people off guard, and she has some really solid normals both in the air and on the ground. she can combo decide into her other command grab, as well as her grab DM, and can combo into decide from certain normals, so as soon as execution isn't an issue anymore, she'll be able to do some serious damage. i'm very optimistic about vice
Sounds good, I'm very interested in Vice (XIII)
think you could post some more info when you can?
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Combos
0 Drive, 0 stocks
- s.D, f.A, qcb C.qcf P 302dmg
- d.B x3, qcb A.qcf A 216dmg
1 Drive, 0 stocks
- d.B x3, qcb A, [DC] hcf D, qcb A.qcf P 251dmg
0 Drive, 1 stock
- s.D, f.A, qcb AC, qcb A.qcf P 411dmg
1 Drive, 1 stock
- s.D, f.A, qcb C.qcf P, [SC] hcf~uf~u~d+P DM 404dmg
- qcb A.qcf+P, [SC] DM 269dmg
- d.B x3, qcb A.qcf+P, [SC] DM 311dmg
- d.B x3, qcb A, [DC] hcf BD, s.D, f.A, qcb C.qcf P 355dmg
1 Drive, 2 stocks
- s.D, f.A, qcb AC, qcb A.qcf P, [SC] DM 507dmg
0 Drive, 2 stocks
- s.D, f.A, qcb AC, s.D, hcf BD, s.D, f.A, qcb C.qcf P 558dmg
0 Drive, 3 stocks
- qcb AC, hcf B, hcbx2+BD = 476 DMG
1 Drive, 4 stocks
- qcb AC, hcf BD, s.D, f.A qcb AC, qcb A, [SC] DM = 525 DMG
HD Combos
- JD, st. D, f+A, qcb+AC, st. D, hcf+BD, st. D, f+A, [HD] st. D, f+A, qcb+C, (DC) hcf+D, [qcb+A, hcf+D]x4, qcb hcf+AC = 900+ DMG
- j.D, s.D, f.A, [HD], s.D, f.A, Ex DM, [MC] NM 933dmg
- JD, st. D, f+A, [HD] st. D, f+A, qcb+C, (DC) hcf+D, [qcb+A, hcf+D]x3, hcbx2+BD, (MC) qcb hcf+AC = 900+ DMG
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I figured that this was a good time to discuss Vice, since she had a pretty good showing in the video thread today.
The main reason no one is playing Vice, is because Splash, when used alone, can cause an unescapeable freeze for the opponent, if it collides with and attack, right? But used as a derived follow-up to her shoulder charge, it never faces this situation, and is fine to use there.
All a shame, as I thought back during the tech refs, her damage looks pretty nice in a real match, especially when suplimented by an ex move or 2. Seems like an antiair counter queen, almost as much as Elisabeth. 1 EX Use = pulled in to a rather damaging combo.
As much as I like Vice, I never liked her jump-ins. (Jump B had crappy hitstun, no solid crossups, most jumps hit high...), all good reasons why I like the anywhere juggle EX pull-in.
Any players here have any solid time with her, now? Any updated impressions, thoughts, etc?
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after watching that footage... i'm having debates in my head of switching clark out with her... :( she looks awesome... elizabeth like anywhere juggles... good AA... solid grappler... solid combos...
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I tried out Vice today, she is one deadly character and her jump CD is GOD!
Comboing into her Overkill can be tough.
Yeah, she is pretty much the best grapple character in the game.
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I'm glad Vice is still pretty good. Has always been my favorite grappler in KOF.
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Yeah until watching her in action I thought grapplers were done for in this game, with Clark and Goro getting mauled and all most of the time.
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I tried out Vice today, she is one deadly character and her jump CD is GOD!
Comboing into her Overkill can be tough.
Yeah, she is pretty much the best grapple character in the game.
I like her too but I wouldn't say she's the best. Goro and Clark are pretty damn good. At best, she's as good as Clark (but that's a tad optimistic), would probably edge out since he has better normals overall and two command throws with different uses.
In other news, when I finally get around going through 3.5hrs of filming, we'll upload Reynald's new Vice which is pure delight to watch.
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I tried out Vice today, she is one deadly character and her jump CD is GOD!
Comboing into her Overkill can be tough.
Yeah, she is pretty much the best grapple character in the game.
I like her too but I wouldn't say she's the best. Goro and Clark are pretty damn good. At best, she's as good as Clark (but that's a tad optimistic), would probably edge out since he has better normals overall and two command throws with different uses.
In other news, when I finally get around going through 3.5hrs of filming, we'll upload Reynald's new Vice which is pure delight to watch.
At this point she looks way better than Goro or Clark, better combos and options. Hopefully you can prove me otherwise with your vids or the coming tourney.
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I tried out Vice today, she is one deadly character and her jump CD is GOD!
Comboing into her Overkill can be tough.
Yeah, she is pretty much the best grapple character in the game.
I like her too but I wouldn't say she's the best. Goro and Clark are pretty damn good. At best, she's as good as Clark (but that's a tad optimistic), would probably edge out since he has better normals overall and two command throws with different uses.
In other news, when I finally get around going through 3.5hrs of filming, we'll upload Reynald's new Vice which is pure delight to watch.
At this point she looks way better than Goro or Clark, better combos and options. Hopefully you can prove me otherwise with your vids or the coming tourney.
Yeah that's what I mean is that she can combo into throws way better than Goro or Clark and she is more successful at landing special throws than Goro or Clark since their throws, even their DM's, gets stop in their tracks so easily. So Vice is the way to go.
Yeah, Reynald's Vice is a monster.
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a few things to notice from my playtime with her:
c.C works great as an anti-air, especially if you're trapped in a corner. in my experience, it'll win or trade against most air normals, though i'm guessing it's terrible for crossups.
i used to use j.D as an air-to-air, but it's really slow to come out. only works well if you anticipate a jump. use j.B instead since it has quicker startup, but be careful, since i think it doesn't have that many active frames.
for a jump-in, j.C is your choice, though the range is kinda poor so make sure it lands deep off a hop.
j.CD is indeed pretty good since you can EX decide into whatever afterwards. it's only really good for mid-range air-to-air. up close, you're likely to get knocked out of it before it even comes out.
EX mayhem has pretty good invincibility on it. though it loses to projectiles, i've never had it lose to normals and it broke through a lot of specials. plus, it has decent follow-ups.
decide has good range and, on a solid knockdown, is a good tool for keeping opponents defensive on wakeup. i'm not really sure if anything is linkable from a B decide, but you all know how well the EX version works.
i haven't tried anything with gorefest, so i couldn't tell you if it leads to any good follow-ups. should probably test it. the EX version has good range, but you're better off spending that meter on and EX mayhem/decide.
all that said, i still play a terrible vice since i didn't get to training mode her and i hardly did any research beforehand. only reason i'm adding these notes is because outside of her moveslist, there isn't much detail in this thread. i'd make more notes about her other normals, but i'm lazy and i probably should test more so i have a better handle on properties and whatnot. i hope she gets explored more, cause she's a pretty fun character to use if you're patient.
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I recorded like 3.5hours on Thursday night of us playing (just going thru all those matches is going to take forever). Reynald recently picked up Vice and he was tearing it up so I'll try to highlight some of his matches.
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looking forward to it
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Ok, so we KNOW Vice's EX Decide has anywhere juggle properties, right? And Gore fest, traditionally un-comboable afterwards, leaves them in the air after it... is it possible for an anywhere juggle not to catch off it, as well? Could you possibly hop back, and then do EX Decide? Do they fall too fast, are they too close, or is this one situation where SNKP just ensured that NOTHING could happen at all?
If anything, I'd imagine Splash would make a dangerous mix-up option after the Gorefest knockdown, especially when it's fixed and without possible character-freezing glitches.
That also begs the question, is normal Decide a good way to catch backrollers? Or would it be easily blocked out of roll recovery?
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Ok, so we KNOW Vice's EX Decide has anywhere juggle properties, right? And Gore fest, traditionally un-comboable afterwards, leaves them in the air after it... is it possible for an anywhere juggle not to catch off it, as well? Could you possibly hop back, and then do EX Decide? Do they fall too fast, are they too close, or is this one situation where SNKP just ensured that NOTHING could happen at all?
If anything, I'd imagine Splash would make a dangerous mix-up option after the Gorefest knockdown, especially when it's fixed and without possible character-freezing glitches.
That also begs the question, is normal Decide a good way to catch backrollers? Or would it be easily blocked out of roll recovery?
Some good questions, maybe we'll test it out next time.
In other news, metaphysics managed to bug me twice yesterday after I was Splashing around; both time he won due to having more life than me. Bastard hehe.
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Ok, so we KNOW Vice's EX Decide has anywhere juggle properties, right? And Gore fest, traditionally un-comboable afterwards, leaves them in the air after it... is it possible for an anywhere juggle not to catch off it, as well? Could you possibly hop back, and then do EX Decide? Do they fall too fast, are they too close, or is this one situation where SNKP just ensured that NOTHING could happen at all?
If anything, I'd imagine Splash would make a dangerous mix-up option after the Gorefest knockdown, especially when it's fixed and without possible character-freezing glitches.
That also begs the question, is normal Decide a good way to catch backrollers? Or would it be easily blocked out of roll recovery?
Splash is a very good mix-up... but I would suggest only doing it when the opponent is in the corner. It's a very risky move in mid screen, even with a strong offense.
Decide is a good use to move to catch backrollers because even if they do block it, you're safe. I might actually start using Decide just for that. Thanks for bringing it up!
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Decide is a good use to move to catch backrollers because even if they do block it, you're safe.
Some quick questions
Does EX Deicide work on guard cancel rolled opponents?
And whats the input for super canceling the Splash after Mayhem? I'd assume you would buffer the Overkill right away but I'm not 100% sure
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Decide is a good use to move to catch backrollers because even if they do block it, you're safe.
Some quick questions
Does EX Deicide work on guard cancel rolled opponents?
And whats the input for super canceling the Splash after Mayhem? I'd assume you would buffer the Overkill right away but I'm not 100% sure
I believe it's, qcb+P --> hcf~uf+P, --> u~d+P but Reynald can comment on that since he does it all the time.
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Cool, thanks for the testing, Kane! And l2slythe, thanks, and glad to bring up an idea!
Always feel a bit bad watching Vice's whom you know are avoiding Splash use by itself; useful in the corner, eh? Cool, I'd think it'd be kinda dangerous there, so that's interesting to hear.
Interested to hear about the EX Decide "?" of Krazy's, too.
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I believe it's, qcb+P --> hcf~uf+P, --> u~d+P but Reynald can comment on that since he does it all the time.
That is correct.
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Correct me if I'm wrong l2slythe, you pulled this following combo off last night:
-(anti-air) s.A, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, Ex qcb P, s.D, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, HD --> continue
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yeah wtf was that!? he landed it on me lol, I was like, REALLy!? What!? HD MODE!?
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yeah wtf was that!? he landed it on me lol, I was like, REALLy!? What!? HD MODE!?
Oh was it you, I'll correct my post in socal, I thought it was on John.
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well he could of done it more than once but at the very least he did do it on me
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It was against John, IIRC
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Doesn't matter who it was done on, but when I saw it happen it was against Metaphysics
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Correct me if I'm wrong l2slythe, you pulled this following combo off last night:
-(anti-air) s.A, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, Ex qcb P, s.D, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, HD --> continue
ho ho you were paying attention? yes thats what i did.
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Correct me if I'm wrong l2slythe, you pulled this following combo off last night:
-(anti-air) s.A, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, Ex qcb P, s.D, Ex hcf K, s.D, f.A, HD --> continue
ho ho you were paying attention? yes thats what i did.
No he wasn't Duc and I told him.
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Cool combo, how is the scaling? worth going into HD mode?
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Cool combo, how is the scaling? worth going into HD mode?
Dunno. He died too quickly and we were kind still awestruck
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Cool combo, how is the scaling? worth going into HD mode?
It did about 48%+ before i popped HD. I'm not sure if its worth going into HD mode... but it's another option.
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Any Vice XIII players still here? how have you guys been dealing with corner pressure? from the looks of it she lacks a good anti-air (her old cr.C is gone) and it seems like the only way she can get out of the corner is to use EX Tackle or EX Splash.
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From playing against her, it seems like her Ex Tackle is still her best option (and it's a damn good one too), s.A works well against anti-air and we know what she can do after that if she has stocks. Finally, dashing and command throw still works well.
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i'd be careful about using EX tackle. i used to do it a lot (when people weren't used to seeing vice), until i realized how much startup it has. sure it has a lot of invincible frames, but unless the opponent high jumps at you, you're not going to get clean hits off of it. you'll notice that it has a whole lot of startup frames. though invincible during that time, it's practically blockable on reaction. like i mentioned though, it's good against high jumps, but probably not hops. it also costs 1 meter for EX tackle, so the universal GCCD/GCR are probably safer to use even though you don't get combo opportunities like you would with the tackle.
like Kane mentioned, her s.A is great against hops and her far s.D (the leg swing, not the knee which is close s.D) is great against almost any other type of jump-in. if you predict a high jump, a j.B air-to-air works pretty well into EX arm when you land.
also, like Kane suggested, command throw is your friend when it comes to punishing moves you normally feel like you couldn't punish on block.
as a last resort, if you have the meter (and want to be a dick lol), you can use her neomax to punish jumps, whiffs, stagger pressure, or basically anytime the opponent hits a button. it does a good deal of damage for relatively no effort. keep in mind that you probably won't have meter after this option lol
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i'd be careful about using EX tackle. i used to do it a lot (when people weren't used to seeing vice), until i realized how much startup it has. sure it has a lot of invincible frames, but unless the opponent high jumps at you, you're not going to get clean hits off of it. you'll notice that it has a whole lot of startup frames. though invincible during that time, it's practically blockable on reaction.
I remember trying to d.B you on get up or other mixups and I keep eating the Ex Tackle, so I conditioned myself not to be next to Vice when she's getting up lol (coz she can still command throw).
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can vice EX Decide after a GCCD, if so I think it would be worth while for the 2 stocks, not quite as good as raiden GCCD but good none the less.
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can vice EX Decide after a GCCD, if so I think it would be worth while for the 2 stocks, not quite as good as raiden GCCD but good none the less.
Never saw it being done but that's an excellent question. Technically speaking, it IS an anywhere-juggle. It all depends on her recovery frames of her GCCD.
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A great display of how deadly Vice can get. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLZrbdF00_Y#t=4m08)
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can vice EX Decide after a GCCD, if so I think it would be worth while for the 2 stocks, not quite as good as raiden GCCD but good none the less.
I'm pretty sure I've tested this before and that it doesn't work. Just like her regular CD attack, her GCCD attack has horrendous recovery on hit or block. I'm also under the impression that you can't special/super cancel GCCD's?
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can vice EX Decide after a GCCD, if so I think it would be worth while for the 2 stocks, not quite as good as raiden GCCD but good none the less.
I'm pretty sure I've tested this before and that it doesn't work. Just like her regular CD attack, her GCCD attack has horrendous recovery on hit or block. I'm also under the impression that you can't special/super cancel GCCD's?
You cannot cancel a GCCD, Raiden's case is unique because (he's Raiden damnit) his dropkicks are fast enough, which I'm assuming is what the question was alluding to.
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A great display of how deadly Vice can get. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLZrbdF00_Y#t=4m08)
Ahahaha! Oh gawd that last combo! I didn't think using 7 meters in a single combo was possible.
And btw, punishing projectiles using her NeoMax is extremely satisfying. xD
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A great display of how deadly Vice can get. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLZrbdF00_Y#t=4m08)
Ahahaha! Oh gawd that last combo! I didn't think using 7 meters in a single combo was possible.
And btw, punishing projectiles using her NeoMax is extremely satisfying. xD
Her NM is just straight-up nasty; it punishes ANYTHING.
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alright, so a couple things.
first off, is there any distance where weak shoulder is safe on block? i tried doing cr.B x3 weak shoulder as a blockstring (98 style baby!) but i got punished.
also, is it optimal to dreamcancel shoulder into ex dacide? or are there better ways to do (metered) damage off of cr.B?
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Now, from my experience (which isn't saying much compared to the other Vice players around here), don't worry about drive cancelling anything when using Vice outside of HD.
Mayhem (tackle) is not safe on block regardless of your setup. Focus on mixing up your grabs/low pokes/overhead instead of blockstrings, since her moves aren't really optimized for that utility.
If you really want to use meter, you can do combos involving EX Decide (arm grab) which basically sets up combo loops till you run out of meter. More often than not, you can be doing cr.B, cr.B, s.B, qcb+A~qcf+A/C *optional supercancel to Overkill*, which does decent damage off of a poke confirm without having to use meter (if you chose not to Overkill). If you land an overhead, you get a free EX tackle to tackle-splash juggle. Ending with a splash is usually a positive for Vice since the opponent can't safe fall (roll recover), which lets you set up your oki: dash low, dash throw/command throw, arm grab, splash, empty jump/jump-in, bait something, etc.
You'll really want to save meter for EX arm combos or EX tackles to break through stuff though. Vice is limited in options when she has no meter, so keep in mind that she should be saving it for either big combos or to get herself out of defensive situations.
EDIT: crossed out incorrect information as stated by Kane317.
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hey does anyone know the exact properties of EX command grab? does it have invincible frames?
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hey does anyone know the exact properties of EX command grab? does it have invincible frames?
I'm not sure, considering it's a 1-frame grab, which means you could probably grab an opponent in the middle of a move anyway (like Kim's EX Hangetsuzan >_< ). The only properties I know regarding her EX grab is that it has longer reach and slightly more damage.
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hey does anyone know the exact properties of EX command grab? does it have invincible frames?
Increase range, it probably has the farthest range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS1CjivdZHQ#t=8m04) of all Ex throws IIRC; her Gore Fest is already a 1 frame throw.
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Can Splash catch a person in the air?
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Can Splash catch a person in the air?
Nope :(
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Can you super cancel a stand-alone Splash though (cause I know you can super cancel the Splash follow-up)?
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Can you super cancel a stand-alone Splash though (cause I know you can super cancel the Splash follow-up)?
Unless you hit them super high (juggle), it's unlikely you'll have time. Even hitting them super high I doubt you can get there in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
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hey does anyone know the exact properties of EX command grab? does it have invincible frames?
Increase range, it probably has the farthest range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS1CjivdZHQ#t=8m04) of all Ex throws IIRC; her Gore Fest is already a 1 frame throw.
Actual technical reference.
「KOF XIII Technical Reference」 chapter 8 ~八神チーム~ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCabeLhO2_o#ws)
Why watch the reuploaded video?
As for the range, you're probably right.
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Can Splash catch a person in the air?
Nope :(
Not even the EX version?
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Can Splash catch a person in the air?
Nope :(l
Not even the EX version?
It's not an air grab. Think of it like B.Mary's or O.Yashiro's move but faster (without the follow up)
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Can you super cancel a stand-alone Splash though (cause I know you can super cancel the Splash follow-up)?
Unless you hit them super high (juggle), it's unlikely you'll have time. Even hitting them super high I doubt you can get there in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
I was thinking more of the lines of using it on meeting with a jumping opponent and you happened to use Splash.
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Can you super cancel a stand-alone Splash though (cause I know you can super cancel the Splash follow-up)?
Unless you hit them super high (juggle), it's unlikely you'll have time. Even hitting them super high I doubt you can get there in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
I was thinking more of the lines of using it on meeting with a jumping opponent and you happened to use Splash.
I just re-read what you wrote and I totally misread your question: I thought you asked if you could Ex Mayhem (what was I thinking?) then manually jump up and do Overkill without canceling.
My bad.
No, Splash alone is not SC'able according to the Mook.
EDIT: I actually tried it out finally, and if you hit an aerial opponents (I tried it in the corner at least) with the Ex Mayhem you can actually just jump up and do the Overkill DM (shortcutted from the ground).
Although her s.D --> Ex hcf+K option is stronger, you can't make up for style points ;)
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If you land an overhead, you get a free EX tackle to tackle-splash juggle.
I've been meaning to ask, what did you mean by this? Did you mean activate HD off the overhead because you can't just do overhead by itself into an Ex Mayhem.
EDIT2: Added some damage values to the first page combos.
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I've been meaning to ask, what did you mean by this? Did you mean activate HD off the overhead because you can't just do overhead by itself into an Ex Mayhem.
lol yeah that was my mistake. I probably got a s.D confirm into f+A, but when I initially wrote that my brain was thinking I got a standalone overhead for some reason.
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You gave me False Hope. Trying to clean up this Vice thread and sort out the combos in a more organized fashion.
EDIT: Back on topic. I've been on and off with her Splash SuperCancel into Overkill DM which is easily one of the most challenging SC in the game and I finally figured out what I was doing wrong and what helped me the most.
Of course the shortcut is to do qcb P, hcf~uf P, u~d+P. The main problem I was having was that if you do the hcf part too fast the Splash wouldn't SC into Overkill DM and if you do it too slow the Mayhem wouldn't cancel into Splash. Also the timing for the C version is different from the A shoulder which makes a difference since you can only combo the A version off of d.Bs.
So I know it's just me, but what I look for now is qcb+P, hold back, and I wait to see the shoulder and just when it's about to connect I do hcf~uf P, u~d+P. The u~d+P part has pretty good leeway as you can cancel it fast or slow.
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
Most likely what you saw was a quick supercancel. Mentioned above, unless you hit them super high, and you probably have to be in the corner as well, you're not going to be able to Overkill them in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
When you SC Overkill from the Splash followup of Mayhem (qcb P.qcf P), it starts the Splash frames but you cancel it before he actually slams you on the ground so it looks like one continuous motion really.
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
Most likely what you saw was a quick supercancel. Mentioned above, unless you hit them super high, and you probably have to be in the corner as well, you're not going to be able to Overkill them in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
When you SC Overkill from the Splash followup of Mayhem (qcb P.qcf P), it starts the Splash frames but you cancel it before he actually slams you on the ground so it looks like one continuous motion really.
I seem to have left something out:
EX Mayhem to regular Mayhem to Overkill. Does it make any difference?
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
Most likely what you saw was a quick supercancel. Mentioned above, unless you hit them super high, and you probably have to be in the corner as well, you're not going to be able to Overkill them in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
When you SC Overkill from the Splash followup of Mayhem (qcb P.qcf P), it starts the Splash frames but you cancel it before he actually slams you on the ground so it looks like one continuous motion really.
I seem to have left something out:
EX Mayhem to regular Mayhem to Overkill. Does it make any difference?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. If you mean if it makes a damage difference then of course it does but you'll be using a drive to [SC] into Overkill from Mayhem.
As mentioned earlier, if you tap then while they're in the air high enough with Ex Mayhem, and they're in the corner, you can manually do Overkill but it's a bit of a challenge.
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
Most likely what you saw was a quick supercancel. Mentioned above, unless you hit them super high, and you probably have to be in the corner as well, you're not going to be able to Overkill them in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
When you SC Overkill from the Splash followup of Mayhem (qcb P.qcf P), it starts the Splash frames but you cancel it before he actually slams you on the ground so it looks like one continuous motion really.
I seem to have left something out:
EX Mayhem to regular Mayhem to Overkill. Does it make any difference?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. If you mean if it makes a damage difference then of course it does but you'll be using a drive to [SC] into Overkill from Mayhem.
As mentioned earlier, if you tap then while they're in the air high enough with Ex Mayhem, and they're in the corner, you can manually do Overkill but it's a bit of a challenge.
You said that what I saw was probably a quick Super Cancel and that it would most likely be in the corner. From what I remember, neither of those things happened.
I wish I could find you that video to show you. The reason I remember that combo so well is because in that video, Vice was a light attack away from being KO'ed while her opponent, a Kim, had a little bit below half health. With three seconds remaining, Vice KO'ed that Kim by hitting him with an EX Mayhem, then juggling him with a regular Mayhem, and in the final second of the round, she jumped and landed an Overkill on him. It was the best comeback I've ever seen.
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I saw someone juggle an opponent with Mayhem and then follow it up with an Overkill. That's an easier way to combo into it, right?
Most likely what you saw was a quick supercancel. Mentioned above, unless you hit them super high, and you probably have to be in the corner as well, you're not going to be able to Overkill them in time due to the recovery of the Mayhem.
When you SC Overkill from the Splash followup of Mayhem (qcb P.qcf P), it starts the Splash frames but you cancel it before he actually slams you on the ground so it looks like one continuous motion really.
I seem to have left something out:
EX Mayhem to regular Mayhem to Overkill. Does it make any difference?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. If you mean if it makes a damage difference then of course it does but you'll be using a drive to [SC] into Overkill from Mayhem.
As mentioned earlier, if you tap then while they're in the air high enough with Ex Mayhem, and they're in the corner, you can manually do Overkill but it's a bit of a challenge.
You said that what I saw was probably a quick Super Cancel and that it would most likely be in the corner. From what I remember, neither of those things happened.
I wish I could find you that video to show you. The reason I remember that combo so well is because in that video, Vice was a light attack away from being KO'ed while her opponent, a Kim, had a little bit below half health. With three seconds remaining, Vice KO'ed that Kim by hitting him with an EX Mayhem, then juggling him with a regular Mayhem, and in the final second of the round, she jumped and landed an Overkill on him. It was the best comeback I've ever seen.
You mean this one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngnN_r3h-Oo#t=2m38) Minute link isn't working, 2m38 sec.
It's SC'd.
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Figured I'd noticed what I observed with her at Otakon, here:
close ;d is a 2 hit normal again. Starts with a knee, then ends with her sticking her leg out to kick you in the head. I didn't combo off it much, just didn't attempt much. Seems to cancel as expected.
I don't know how reliable this is, but I did notice; Her ;c Mayhem once seemed to give her startup invincibility VS a fireball from... I think it was Kensou. Didn't have time to text to much more.
New victory pose: Probably using the return frames of Splash, she lays on the ground, and then brings up a hand that she's likcing, while in a "sexy" pose.
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New victory pose: Probably using the return frames of Splash, she lays on the ground, and then brings up a hand that she's likcing, while in a "sexy" pose.
Do you know if she still keeps her old winpose, or now only uses this new one?
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Do you know if she still keeps her old winpose, or now only uses this new one?
She has both. So she joins Ralf with the honor of having more than 1 win pose animation! (Even in arcade, Ralf would either do his taunt animation for victory, or the "hold up a single hand in victory" pose he had in XII) Note that just about everyone has more than one win QUOTE now; but very few have additional poses, expecially outside Neomax victories.
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hey guys,
so i played the evo build, and i saw some cool/weird stuff.
like mentioned above, stand D can hit twice, but i'm pretty sure its not close D that hits twice, since i was canceling it like i'm used to in the arcade version. i think D only hits twice at a very specific range where it's not quite close enough to come out as close D, but not far enough to hit with the lower part of her leg.
Also, i noticed that regular tackle drive cancel into EX tackle combo'd! i didn't think about this until now, so i have no way to test it, but if my observation is accurate, then in HD mode, she could potentially do regular shoulder, ex shoulder, juggle regular shoulder, repeat. that would be cool, lol
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Hmmm, so... you think she has a "Mid-range" ;d ? Seemed just like it was extra animation added onto her close ;d to me, but you could be right.
A shoulder tackle HD combo could be fun, I never got to try out her HD stuffm so I didn't even get to try the known HD combos for her...
I personally had too much fun AA'n with Overkill, btw, lol. Along with her anywhere-juggle EX DeSide, it's great how much she can manipulate aerial opponents... especially since she no longer had that old crouching ;c...
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Salvaged this video before it gets lost into oblivion, fast forward this to 3m11s to see Vice's new s.D:
FGF- KOF XIII Console Version! Feat. Max Action and Saiki Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJuSLQxdRSQ#ws)
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lol these guys suck so bad that it's funny to watch... none the less, that s.D doing 2 hits? i might have to play Vice again...
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A few nice pointers for Vice in XIII play:
KOF XIII: Tips with Vice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz3_dbzUMfQ#)
The return of her 2 hit ;d should make everything better, lol.
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It doesnt show or say you can do hcf+D~qcb+A
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The return of her 2 hit ;d should make everything better, lol.
I was thinking about this for quite some time and I can't figure out why they added second hit of the close s.D (although I do like it). f+A cancels when cancelled into and does the same damage as the second hit of the s.D from what it looks on the videos. f+A is safer if you cancel it into hcf+B as well. The only thing is you can activate [HD] off of it and then continue your [HD] combo of choice so I suppose it adds variety.
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Variety, tradition, and a lazier hit confirm, I'd wager. Her f+a command normal seems much better, and more "useful" here than in most other games, so she already had 2 slower hits to use before combos.
Maybe it can also be used as a sorta setup for Splash, as well?
On Block and vs Guard Point, it also might leave a little less gap than the c / d -> f+a too, making her pressure just slightly better?
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I was thinking about this for quite some time and I can't figure out why they added second hit of the close s.D (although I do like it). f+A cancels when cancelled into and does the same damage as the second hit of the s.D from what it looks on the videos. f+A is safer if you cancel it into hcf+B as well. The only thing is you can activate [HD] off of it and then continue your [HD] combo of choice so I suppose it adds variety.
Aside from being a return to form it will also probably help in HD and EX grab combos. I've seen tons of players mess up on continuing after the HCF+K during combos, this should give people a bigger window to execute.
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I have a question about Vice's EX decide. could someone describe the properties of it to me?
I'm sure I've seen it comboed off of a st.A Anti air cr.D and all sorts of attacks that reset the opponent in the air
And could someone please mention all the possible normals/attacks you can land it from because it seems very different compared to its non-ex version
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hcf+BD acts as a "anywhere juggle" in a sense. You can do sA info hcf+BD and it will combo and thats even when its not a counter. Works for anything, even from cD as you mention.
Im curious why you said hcf+B/D is easier. It doesn't have the same properties besides being used for a DC.
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After watching those SVB2011 vids, -cristina- showed that Vice's cr.C can be used as an effective anti-air. Is there any evidence contradicting this?
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I'm glad it has the Hitbox for this, as otherwise, it'd be a super nerf compared to her old d. ;c .
I was suprised that it actually stopped some corner jump pressure when I used it at Otakon, kinda similiar to Chin's d. ;c in that regard.
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Could she always do a bare f+A>command throw?
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Not sure there, miles. So, she can special cancel out of a naked overhead, then? Do you have the Video + Time you noticed this at?
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Not sure there, miles. So, she can special cancel out of a naked overhead, then? Do you have the Video + Time you noticed this at?
Her f.A was always a SC-only. If she can do it to a normal command throw then that's new.
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Thanks for the above help.
Okay I want to clarify some stuff...
firstly can you guys tell me the properties of EX decide in combos.
Are you able to combo off of a normal decide or does it have to be EX?
if you can
why dont people do stuff like...
st.B>mayhem>decide>st.D>f.A>mayhem~ender?
The properties of her overhead slam thingy?
I had trouble previously landing
s.D>f.A>Ex mayhem>ST.D>EX DECIDE
outside of the corner.
I always got a far D
Do I have to dash a lil bit or something?
Thanks
EDIT
My apologies I assumed if she could super cancel it she could do a normal command throw off of the f.A
Still damn useful though.
I wish it never lost its overhead properties after a close D though... :/
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If I'm not mistaken, the only surefire follow-ups off a normal Decide are Gorefest, and ;a Mayhem.
It's done in such a way, where she doesn't have an infinite, or over-extended normal combos without using EX.
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If I'm not mistaken, the only surefire follow-ups off a normal Decide are Gorefest, and ;a Mayhem.
It's done in such a way, where she doesn't have an infinite, or over-extended normal combos without using EX.
Thanks alot bro.
That makes perfect sense :)
So basically im looking for the max damage I can get off of cr.B.
because a noob like me finds it impossible to hitconfirm a st.D lolol
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Thanks for the above help.
Okay I want to clarify some stuff...
firstly can you guys tell me the properties of EX decide in combos.
Are you able to combo off of a normal decide or does it have to be EX?
if you can
why dont people do stuff like...
st.B>mayhem>decide>st.D>f.A>mayhem~ender?
* B version Decide (hcf B) can be comboed into however the only thing you can combo out of are command throws (including her DM version)
* D version Decide cannot be combo into but you can combo out of it with an A Mayhem (qcb+A) along with command throws
* Ex version Decide can be combo into and out of and can even be followed up with a s.D. The Ex Decide also have "anywhere juggle" properties so you can do silly stuff like j.CD (no counter) and do Ex Decide when you land.
The properties of her overhead slam thingy?
Are you talking about her Splash (dp+P) because it's not an overhead per se, it's just an unblockable command throw (only for grounded opponents). Ex version goes farther but has some slight startup.
I had trouble previously landing
s.D>f.A>Ex mayhem>ST.D>EX DECIDE
outside of the corner.
I always got a far D
Do I have to dash a lil bit or something?
Thanks
You don't need to dash in, if you're having difficulty try replacing it with s.B since the Ex Decide is an anywhere juggle.
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Brilliant.
Love you guys
no homo lol...
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Can I use the qcb x2~f+AC shortcut for Vice's neomax?
Avoid double posting -Kane317
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Can I use the qcb x2~f+AC shortcut for Vice's neomax?
Yes, all qcb~hcf+button motions can be shorcutted to qcb x2~f+button as discussed in the Gameplay thread (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=168.msg2359#msg2359).
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thanks also
Having trouble consistently getting gorfest without splash coming out. I believe my inputs may not be 100% but do you know if theres a way I can avoid the splash?
I do know dp can be input as hcb f but I really want the reverse lol
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thanks also
Having trouble consistently getting gorfest without splash coming out. I believe my inputs may not be 100% but do you know if theres a way I can avoid the splash?
I do know dp can be input as hcb f but I really want the reverse lol
Do hcb~ub~up~uf+P (pretty fast so that you won't jump). That way you wont' get the Splash.
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Heh
Thanks kane.
Looks like I might have to be protecting Russia's skies...to some degree :D
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sorry if this is old info, but i found that you can kara vice's EX command grab by whiff canceling her CD. the range is really slim, because if you're too close the CD will hit or be blocked, and the opponent can't be grabbed either way. but if you space it just right, you can land EX command grab from like almost midscreen lol it just looks hella cool. from what i've tested, this doesn't work with normal command grab because their range is too short.
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sorry if this is old info, but i found that you can kara vice's EX command grab by whiff canceling her CD. the range is really slim, because if you're too close the CD will hit or be blocked, and the opponent can't be grabbed either way. but if you space it just right, you can land EX command grab from like almost midscreen lol it just looks hella cool.
Pretty sweet! A nice thought. Can't think of many other characters in XIII that such a thing could work for, either. Maybe someone like Shen or Kyo? Don't think any of the other grapplers have CDs with enough forward movement..
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Interesting "claim" for Vice according to Gunsmith of Orochinagi.com (http://orochinagi.com/2011/10/console-version-vice-changes), he's reporting some more changes to Vice.
*Mayhem into the Splash follow up can be now be [SC]'ed after she slams them to the ground. Previously you can only do if after you input the Splash but before they hit the ground which is when she inflicts the Splash damage (pardon the pun).
*D version Deicide (hcf D) now stuns the opponent long enough to do a C Mayhem (qcb C).
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C Mayhem does 30 more damage than A Mayhem which may not seem a lot, but if you're looping it 3~5 times that's 90-150 more damage which is significant couple that with the extra Splash damage of 100, that's a good little bump in damage (minus damage scaling of course). Now if we can only get the numbers for s.D x2 vs s.D, f+A we can see if that helps her as well...
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So, I suppose that means she can SC Splash's slam into Negative Gain, eh? Or is it into Overkill?
This idea fits in with Yuri and Shen's Grab-cancelling. Could we assume every grappler to have 1 new cancel trick (save for maybe Maxima and Raiden)? Would be quite funny for Maxima to cancel AA grab into Air Vapor Cannon, lol. Maybe Goro could cancel AA Throw into OTG throw? And that Clark Flashing Elbow Cancel! ;)
Anyway, would the modified ;D Decide now give longer hitstun? Or maybe it's treated as something like a sneaky derived throw ender? Either way, really like the fact that this should buff her HD combo damage output nicely.
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So, I suppose that means she can SC Splash's slam into Negative Gain, eh? Or is it into Overkill?
I guess that would depend on whether it's canceled on the ground or as she's bouncing off. I don't think we can know unless we see some footage.
EDIT: According to this post from Gunny (http://orochinagi.com/2011/09/snkp-explains-delay-new-trailer) she can now [MC] from both DMs! Very cool!
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wow that sounds great! hahaha my team is getting so buff for console! lolol
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Here's a clip of a decent Vice user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o60yM7-Q12Q#ws) from the console event in Paris
going on now from last weekend.
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Here's a clip of a decent Vice user (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o60yM7-Q12Q#ws) from the console event in Paris going on now from last weekend.
Very nice, I see lots of videos where people drop that combo at 1:25 Nice seeing that connect, great execution. Looks like a Good Kula will give Vice some trouble but he did well, got a little greedy at 2:16 lol. Great gameplay by Pharaon. Nice Vids from Paris.
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Very nice, I see lots of videos where people drop that combo at 1:25 Nice seeing that connect, great execution.
The Ex hcf K stuns a lot longer than before, in the arcade version the timing was pretty tight.
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Very nice, I see lots of videos where people drop that combo at 1:25 Nice seeing that connect, great execution.
The Ex hcf K stuns a lot longer than before, in the arcade version the timing was pretty tight.
OOhh. Ok that most definitely the reason then. Nice
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hey guys, so i've been experimenting a lot with vice's whiff CD kara special cancel properties, and it has made me realize that this shit is really really good for just about ALL of her special moves. some practical uses:
by kara whiff canceling CD with decide (hcf b or D) her range gets extended so that you can land the B version from about half a screen away and the D version from about 85% of the screen away.
doing the same with splash (dp a or c), you can land the A version from half a screen away and the C version from FULL SCREEN
it also extends the range on all her shoulder tackles, which can potentially be useful, but not as much as the other two since tackle is unsafe on block. but forreal, vice players should start kara splashing and kara sleeve-ing, because the range is ridiculous!!!
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I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?
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now this just me talkin but i played a WICKED vice and i was wondering do anybody feel like her EX grab needs to be nerfed??
i aint sayin it should but the way this guy kept settin me up its like i had no choice but to take it we would go air to air and he would beat me and i get rested but then here comes the EX grab and now im eating damage
KOF XIII match 3 part 5 ??? vs Bigvador (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXf9B2nopqY#ws)
heres the match im glad he dropped me
just wanna here some thoughts from people who have experience with vice
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You should be glad he dropped you, that HD combo should've killed you.
But yeah, it's the final round, Vice has full HD and 4 meters, you better make sure that if you're even gonna leave the ground that Vice has no way to touch you.
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the HD set up is unbelievable its all that EX grab i tell ya
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your Ralf needs more work... you can pressure way better with him... against Vice, you don't need to leave the ground... if you wanna air-air her, use j.B... or neutral jump C+D... just control space with qcb+A/C... far s.C... cr.C... far s.D... once you control space better than her, go in and pressure with high/low/throw mix-ups... be careful though... she's a grappler and got every tool needed to counter anything Ralf has...
play very patient... no need to rush in and eat random hits to big ass combos... all her "get in" AND "countering" options are unsafe... if you see her doing retarded Slpashes like she's doing, just read it, neutral hop it and punish with a full combo... she even yells the whole time she's doing it... read for her EX shoulder... block and punish... whoever is more patient in this match-up will win...
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your Ralf needs more work... you can pressure way better with him... against Vice, you don't need to leave the ground... if you wanna air-air her, use j.B... or neutral jump C+D... just control space with qcb+A/C... far s.C... cr.C... far s.D... once you control space better than her, go in and pressure with high/low/throw mix-ups... be careful though... she's a grappler and got every tool needed to counter anything Ralf has...
play very patient... no need to rush in and eat random hits to big ass combos... all her "get in" AND "countering" options are unsafe... if you see her doing retarded Slpashes like she's doing, just read it, neutral hop it and punish with a full combo... she even yells the whole time she's doing it... read for her EX shoulder... block and punish... whoever is more patient in this match-up will win...
uhhh no disrespect but i didnt come on the VICE thread to talk about how my ralf played if u wanna talk about my ralf then go 2 his thread (or training area) and you'll see my post
I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning
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Well, you asked "Is Vice's tool overpowered?"... and since the answer is pretty much "No", the answer ends up being "here's how you work around it!" which just happens to involve, in this case, your style of Ralf play. It would be best to be continued in his own thread, though.
Back to Vice, her EX Decide uses meter, adds hit scaling (even though it does no damage itself), and has a slightly tricky timing window. The possible follow-ups are also kinda limited (compared to, say, how Takuma's Kyokugen Houken (Or Hougeki, as it's called on Atlus' site) can allow you to land a hop attack after landing his "hitstun grapple".
It gives her an easy way to land HD combos (kinda), sure, but she also has some of the weaker HD combos around, to the point where they're getting a potential BUFF on console release (allowing her to use the stronger variety of her "Mayhem" tackle in her HD loop, to allow for greater damage). So, in the grand scheme of things, Vice using HD to kill an opponent, if she / the opponent is not the last, is doing less damage than if anyone else on her team did it. That's pretty faiir.
I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning
As a person who wanted to live with fighters this way too... I warn you, it's a bad idea. I went through years nof NOT knowing things, due to not seeking out certain details and tactics... and all it lead to, was me looking back over years of play, wishing I knew to get certain things down BACK THEN, rather than learning them in a clump once I fight stronger opponents.
For example, the GGPO 98 Players really showed me how powerful MAX mode is in that game. I never cared for it back in ACTUAL 1998 time playing, so most of my GGPO matches were spent feeling like a heavyweight fighter in the middle of a gymnastics competetion; They ran circles around me, and I couldn't do much of anything to compete.
It's fun to learn on your own... but it's more fun to practice your character, and know that you can employ everything about them, rather than work off a self-gimped list of techniques.
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Well, you asked "Is Vice's tool overpowered?"... and since the answer is pretty much "No", the answer ends up being "here's how you work around it!" which just happens to involve, in this case, your style of Ralf play. It would be best to be continued in his own thread, though.
Back to Vice, her EX Decide uses meter, adds hit scaling (even though it does no damage itself), and has a slightly tricky timing window. The possible follow-ups are also kinda limited (compared to, say, how Takuma's Kyokugen Houken (Or Hougeki, as it's called on Atlus' site) can allow you to land a hop attack after landing his "hitstun grapple".
It gives her an easy way to land HD combos (kinda), sure, but she also has some of the weaker HD combos around, to the point where they're getting a potential BUFF on console release (allowing her to use the stronger variety of her "Mayhem" tackle in her HD loop, to allow for greater damage). So, in the grand scheme of things, Vice using HD to kill an opponent, if she / the opponent is not the last, is doing less damage than if anyone else on her team did it. That's pretty faiir.
I like to learn on my own i hate using advise from otha people its not right to me and it takes the fun out of learning
As a person who wanted to live with fighters this way too... I warn you, it's a bad idea. I went through years nof NOT knowing things, due to not seeking out certain details and tactics... and all it lead to, was me looking back over years of play, wishing I knew to get certain things down BACK THEN, rather than learning them in a clump once I fight stronger opponents.
For example, the GGPO 98 Players really showed me how powerful MAX mode is in that game. I never cared for it back in ACTUAL 1998 time playing, so most of my GGPO matches were spent feeling like a heavyweight fighter in the middle of a gymnastics competetion; They ran circles around me, and I couldn't do much of anything to compete.
It's fun to learn on your own... but it's more fun to practice your character, and know that you can employ everything about them, rather than work off a self-gimped list of techniques.
dont get me wrong i understand what ur sayin and thats all fine and dandy but for me im able to look back at my earlyer matches in KOF and im able to see how much i have progressed and im able to see how to do things on my own weather im in training mode or fighting somebody.
its 1 thing to give me tips on how to go around that move and its another on how to play the character as well as him telling me i need more work on my ralf (which i know its true but i havnt been playin KOF for long)
so like i said before no disrespect to mAsTarOth
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lol vice's ex decide is not a problem at all. it's probably one of vice's most useful tools, but it's not unfair at all by any means. you just need to lvl up bro. remember that meter management is a two way street, involving both yourself and your opponent. btw, where was this footage shot at? where are you guys located?
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No one has answered this for me:
I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?
But since you haven't, I would also like to know if she grabs people who are doing moves like Power Geyser or Grand Rafale or other moves that put something in front of you.
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No one has answered this for me:
I wonder what would happen if Vice did her Decide/EX Decide against an Athena who's doing Shining Crystal Bit?
But since you haven't, I would also like to know if she grabs people who are doing moves like Power Geyser or Grand Rafale or other moves that put something in front of you.
Best Guesses: Power Geyser probably has some startup invincibility, so Terry wins there. Same with Shining Crystal Bit. Generally, I think it'd be the same kinda thing that would happen to Billy's Cane, or Duo's outstretched limbs, she'd take the full damage, from an awkwardly far away position.
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i haven't tested what happens with shining crystal bit specifically, but i can say that anytime decide trades with anything, vice takes the damage and gets knocked back, while the other person gets pulled into the air but can't be grabbed or followed up like usual. in essence, it's a bad trade for vice every time.
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im not one to usually like when execution heavy chars/moves become generally easier, but that vice combo in the newest console change video made me orgasm a red skull
got so hype, i signed up for the boards..
(from far?)qcb+C, cl.D, hcf+BD, cl.D->D, BCHD, d.B, qcb+AC, qcb+A, hcf+D, qcb+C, hcfu d+A, qcbhcf+AC?
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im not one to usually like when execution heavy chars/moves become generally easier, but that vice combo in the newest console change video made me orgasm a red skull
got so hype, i signed up for the boards..
(from far?)qcb+C, cl.D, hcf+BD, cl.D->D, BCHD, d.B, qcb+AC, qcb+A, hcf+D, qcb+C, hcfu d+A, qcbhcf+AC?
Welcome to DC Kgroove, that video is indeed impressive. Don't forget to properly introduce yourself (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) when you get a chance and go over the rules (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1189.0) when you can!
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First page has been updated with console changes.
Console changes:
- (shown in video) Strong version of Mayhem has le
ss lag. If you hit with the edge of it you can do a strong attack as a followup.
- (shown in video) Added a new chain combo D -> D. Only cancellable in HD mode.
- jump CD is faster.
- (shown in video) EX Mayhem has faster startup.
- (shown in video) Strong version of Decide can be comboed into the Strong version of Mayhem.
- EX Decide has less lag and is easier to followup with normal attacks.
- (shown in video) Splash (including the followup version) can be super cancelled into Overkill AFTER it hits.
- (shown in video) Overkill can be MAX Cancelled.
- Overkill’s command has been made easier. If the last input is in any downward direction it will register.
- Damage adjustments:
* Her f+A (when cancelled) does 45 damage (down from 70)
* Her Overkill does 200 damage (down from 220)
* Her EX Mayhem does 120 damage (down from 160)
Yamamoto – She’s received a number of damage nerfs, but in exchange she has a lot more combo opportunities making the nerfs not so noticeable. Her air game has especially improved with her jump CD, EX Decide can be used afterwards to follow up.
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Can anyone recommend some pressure strings with vice?
I find it hard to open people up after a jump in.
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Can anyone recommend some pressure strings with vice?
I find it hard to open people up after a jump in.
Her Decide is her only really safe pressure-ender, so don't try using Mayhem shoulder rams to pressure, this generally leads to pain for you.
Hop A is generally a solid move to hit crouchers with (faster than Hop C, and has decent hitstun), and her crouching Bs into Stand B into Mayhem is a big threat. Basically making them wonder how many B's you're gonna hit with after a jump in, if you're gonna jump in or just straight forward dash -> Go into the low Bs, or zone with far B / Far C, or even possibly go into the overhead f+A (Dokken), or stop the hits, and run in and use her Command throw / Throw DM, are your mixups.
Cancelling into Splash (DP+A in this case) can also be an ok option, as it'll hop a sweep, and land her a slam, but it's risky. EX version on console should be LESS risky, but it could be worth it for getting that last hit of damage you need.
And of course, if you use a lot of hop CD to force them into strong blockstun, use that time to run your mixup game. Her Air CD is vital to her gameplay, and even the ground CD can be used for kara-motions, baiting reversals with it's long startup, or just being an overall nuisance.
It's a bit annoying, but practicing getting used to doing a quick dash into Gorefest (hcb,f+P) is quite important. She doesn't have the old hcf+a invincible command throw that she had in older KoFs, so you need to rely on Gorefest more than ever. It's motion can crossup with the DP shortcut that's use for Splash, through, so learn to press up-forward rather than simply forward, when doing the move, to keep this from happening.
Keep all this in mind, while remembering the power of EX Decide, and you should have your opponents falling into your traps in no time:)
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thanks alot for the above advice btw
I completely forgot.
Heres a tutorial for Vice by Cristina
ON Show 23 KOF XIII workshop vice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeQ0WcfU_uc#ws)
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thanks alot for the above advice btw
I completely forgot.
Heres a tutorial for Vice by Cristina
Very Nice,
This gives me more of an well broken down idea of how her play-style is visually aside from studying matches with her in them. Only been able to play her once in XIII, Cant wait! and thx.
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No prob dude
She's probably my fave character from the whole series
Cant wait to man handle( ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd;c) dudes online with mah bitch :)
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No prob dude
She's probably my fave character from the whole series
Cant wait to man handle( ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd;c) dudes online with mah bitch :)
Lol shit mines too every since 96', then really started to play her seriously in 98.
What I like about 13 is her Decider brings the opponent closer instead of tossing them. Makes it very hard to run from her or do any unsafe moves to her at a certain range. Then they have to deal with her command grab. She's vicious
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(from far?)qcb+C, cl.D, hcf+BD, cl.D->D, BCHD, d.B, qcb+AC, qcb+A, hcf+D, qcb+C, hcfu d+A, qcbhcf+AC?
what bchd means ? nad what is different from normal HD ?
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(from far?)qcb+C, cl.D, hcf+BD, cl.D->D, BCHD, d.B, qcb+AC, qcb+A, hcf+D, qcb+C, hcfu d+A, qcbhcf+AC?
what bchd means ? nad what is different from normal HD ?
He just meant press BC or activate HD.
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(from far?)qcb+C, cl.D, hcf+BD, cl.D->D, BCHD, d.B, qcb+AC, qcb+A, hcf+D, qcb+C, hcfu d+A, qcbhcf+AC?
what bchd means ? nad what is different from normal HD ?
He just meant press BC or activate HD.
oh ok i was like ufff anytime i think i learned all the abbreviations a new one comes out !!
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Yamamoto was right, her AIR CD is Really good, also she has lots of options to make good combos, this is a character who got a good buff imo
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Yamamoto was right, her AIR CD is Really good, also she has lots of options to make good combos, this is a character who got a good buff imo
Yeah, Ex Mayhem, j.CD, Ex Decide is a nice little addition.
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I'm really looking forward to playing around with her. I got a buddy who is MMing me in Vice mirrors. He claims he's gonna take her from me. Even though this is his frist time really using her while I've been using her since 96'. Well, 50 extra dollars in my pocket. lol
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KoF Almost-Noob here (This is my first KoF game but I've been playing catchup), put together a HD Combo for Vice:
The King of Fighters XIII: Vice HD Combo - 1006 Damage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI76M_Ekj-s#ws)
You can also replace the sweep with j.CD if you like being all fancy, same damage.
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Reset kill combo and round lasts only few second
KOF XIII - Vice Reset Combo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNL-uDAJL2c#ws)
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KoF Almost-Noob here (This is my first KoF game but I've been playing catchup), put together a HD Combo for Vice:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI76M_Ekj-s#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI76M_Ekj-s#ws) 1006 Damage
You can also replace the sweep with j.CD if you like being all fancy, same damage.
Welcome Mienakage to DC; we've seen you many times on stream (most recently Wednesday Night Brawl). You're the guy nobody seems to be able to pronounce your name lol.
Good Vice stuff, glad that you thru in some variety instead of just "loops". Make sure you give yourself a proper DC introduction over at the Meet and Greet (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0) section.
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KoF Almost-Noob here (This is my first KoF game but I've been playing catchup), put together a HD Combo for Vice:
The King of Fighters XIII: Vice HD Combo - 1006 Damage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI76M_Ekj-s#ws)
You can also replace the sweep with j.CD if you like being all fancy, same damage.
With j.CD, DMG is 1012 :), finally Vice 100% combo (used ;dn ;db ;bk ;c after ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;d)
The King of Fighters XIII - Vice HD 100% 1012 dmg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g6XJQo-Ou8#ws)
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Ah, perhaps I got the same damage because I hopped instead of a full jump. Think I'd be much more comfortable with the sweep in a real match though.
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Ah, perhaps I got the same damage because I hopped instead of a full jump. Think I'd be much more comfortable with the sweep in a real match though.
did u see if u can get more damage using c.C instead of D+D ? f+A was nerfed but maybe it is still better talking about damage scaling ? do u use the shortcut for overkill ? i still have to do the full move with the shortcut it never came out :(
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Is it hp mayhem HDC hk decide loop reliable?I cant get the timing,Im still going with lp mayhem one :/
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Is it hp mayhem HDC hk decide loop reliable?I cant get the timing,Im still going with lp mayhem one :/
It is the C mayhem to D decide yes. It give much more damage too so you need to learn it
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Once you learn ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;d Dei Cide to ;dn ;db ;bk ;c Mayhem, it's easy to pull. try to input mayhem almost end of dei cide
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I am having way to much fun with Vice. I finally got her loop down. The timing was giving me the hardest of trouble.
So speaking strategy I'm feeling like while I play Vice, I'm doing alot of pokes in and out. I mean her jump ;c ;d is too good. But I really do feel I'm playing the hit and run game withher until I open up a situation to catch people with ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;d or EX version. is that pretty much it?
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Ex decide = GGs
Dont forget it combos from ;b :p
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a shortcut i found today when i got the game :D
Vice - Schortcut (Derivation) Splash into Overkill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hQaMVlxII#ws)
see youtube for description
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a shortcut i found today when i got the game :D
Overkill
Cool stuff, but that's the way you had to do it in the arcades. Now it's much simpler since you can cancel after the Splash follow-up hits the ground instead.
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Vice new? stun combo (http://youtu.be/LLEs-Dv3ymY?t=3m59s)
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That ;a after the shoulder is nasty... As well as comboing into ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;b + ;d you can reset into overhead/hop
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Vice new? stun combo (http://youtu.be/LLEs-Dv3ymY?t=3m59s)
I like that Vice stun combo. Good stuff.
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King of Fighters XIII - Trial Mode : Vice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmRDY6ywUZo#ws)
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@Kane317
Sorry i haven't played the arcade version
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Is it viable to run Vice as a point character? I like the character a lot but I don't want to run her as anchor cause that reserved for Leona lol....Just want to get ppl opinion on it
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Is it viable to run Vice as a point character? I like the character a lot but I don't want to run her as anchor cause that reserved for Leona lol....Just want to get ppl opinion on it
I like having Vice second to be honest