Just gotta' vent. I'm going to step on my soapbox for a minute and scream into the void of the internet.
I had an existential moment as of late. Why do I play fighters? It's not just that I enjoy them, but I want to get to a certain level within ones that I truly love. I want to get to a 'better than average' level where I can easily defeat some retard mashing, I can defeat people just playing casually in between their sessions of COD or whatever, and if I play a pro player I can win a round or two, give 'em a decent run for their money and maybe win a few matches if I'm reading them right.
I feel like I'm at that level at 3rd Strike. So I buy it for PSN, play a friend or two, but play some high level players. I've come to the conclusion that this is unlikely for a variety of reasons: (1) High level dudes are still playing offline for the most part in which case I have to make arrangements. (2) The horde of SF4 players. (3) Lag. Still lag in this fucking game. I can't believe it. Some connections are better than others but I'm still feeling the lag in Yellow bar. So many times have my attacks not come out or I do a well-timed Meatie on their wakeup and my attack comes out and a second later their SRK bullshit comes out and hits me. I've also noticed dudes mashing Jab on wakeup and it's beating my Kara-throws and Command Grabs, this is something that never happened on even GGPO.
So where did this Million or so dollars in development costs go that Capcom claims to have invested? The vault is nice but you can go through that in less than an hour, not much of interest, and not much Developer artwork. The Challenges are okay but wildly impractical. The offline content is sparse. So I don't think a lot went into that. A sizable chunk went into the filters for sure. But compare the online to other games on GGPO and it's severely lackluster. I played Last Blade 2, Alpha 2, etc with dudes in Japan of all places and it felt like it was offline and this is without Ponder needing the source code of those games to tinker with them.
I honestly don't think they tested the online very much. did they setup a connection between the U.S. and Japan offices? And who is Floe, who supposedly helped the team out a lot? Are they referring to that large white guy by the name of Floe who's playing MVC3 and AE now? Because I never knew he played 3S. I don't think many others knew that. Why not involved Kuroda? I mean, of all people you could get involved in such a project why not the best player in the world? Not a Kuroda fanboy but if you ask around it's a pretty common consensus. I mean, there's so many other wrong decisions for the online that just creates a perfect storm of wrongness. It got me thinking about KOF13.
KOF13 looks badass, I'm with everyone else in hoping that the netcode is going to be good. But I don't know. I'm really hoping that the netcode is good enough to play the Mexicans and the rest of South America. That is where the competition is going to be. And I hope that SNKP/Atlus recognizes this and lets us see the regions of other players and that it's a good connection. Otherwise what's the point? We're just going to be playing the same horde of SF4 players and have random connections where sometimes it's good and sometimes it's complete shit.
I mean, without that high level competition than what's the point? If I'm spending my time fucking around online and trying to make impractical combo videos with human dummies than I could take that time and energy and put it into something better.
In sum: 3SOE sucks. Patching might fix the variety of problems but this is Capcom...
Yeah, I gotta kinda agree. No wonder people on GGPO are invading the Karnov room, because it was more playable on your computer than on a console lol.
Oh well, I got EGS coming up tomorrow night, finally some offline competition.
I'm envious dude. September is pretty fucked up for me, I'm trying to save cash and get this film up and going. Maybe October? I don't know. I'm not going to let the SF4 retards put me off of my favorite fighter.
Wait until the ranked mode gets patched and I think you're going to enjoy 3soe more. Once you get to a high rank and go make a player match lobby scrubs will avoid you like the plague. The downside of course is that you have to wait for someone looking for a challenge to show up, but it's worth waiting around a while to get some good matches in imo. You can hunt for lobbies with high rank players and find some good matches too. Not to say rank in this game means anything since you can just grind to get where you want, but it does require some dedication at least.
As far as connections go I had a far easier time finding good ones on ggpo, the only decent solution really is to just not settle for anything less than green. It's a pain in the ass when it already takes long enough just to find a match though. The most annoying thing that seems to happen to me frequently online is when I go to do short, short, super with dudley and even if the guy's blocking the first short will make a "hit" sound which is enough to make me go for the super usually even though I can see him blocking on screen...
Also the sf4 herd will migrate once another game comes out so we can look forward to that too.
i haven't touched the online myself since release and i too am still waiting for a fix or a patch or whatever ive played on ggpo a few times and have never had as much problems before
@LouisCipher:
There won't be a lagless fighter in Consoles for these reasons:
1. Companies need to use the Sony/MS servers.
2. GGPO PC is P2P, the servers serve for the chat and others details for what I know.
3. The game needs to be programmed with lag in mind, hence BB doing wonders online, but the frame specific stuff won't work that well online.
4. GGPO can't grab as much resources as it needs in consoles like it does in PCs.
5. Lots of Console users, mostly PS3 and new 360 model owners, play wireless, which will cause lag.
All these reasons might be the cause or they might not, I'm not sure, but for a while now I was just waiting for a game to use GGPO in consoles to know if "GGPO" was the "save it all" netcode. And it seems it isn't the case, for X or Y reasons, which can be argued.
@IceWater: Ranks means nothing IMO, I have fought guys who are rank 15 and I managed to beat them with no problem. And my Makoto is bad IMO, since I can't do Kara-Karakusa and other more technical Makoto stuff. But the main problem is that Capcom did a shitty job on the online menus, here are some things they were missing:
1. Select criteria before searching for Ranking matches, like Connection type, rank, etc etc. (This was in SF4 vanilla!)
2. The option to Make or search for Ranked matches.
3. Ones the search is done, let you select your opponent.
4. Put a damn tip or hint to tell people "if you want to avoid lag, play against yellow or green PING opponents".
5. Give NUMBER PING and SYMBOL PING, why can't we have both? Is not like it takes too much space.
Anyways, Capcom didn't do a good job IMO, but can't say any developers has done it too. The closest must be BBCT, but that is my opinion.
We demand too much on online play for fighting games, but the thing, is still on diapers and darkaoz made the best points
Plus, I can't see why everybody bitch about scrubs, I'm one on 33, but some players who know how to play this game, and that's a better attitude that just wanting to go straight to the best ones
Sometimes you need to beat the shit out of those guys to turn them off, or to make them better
For all intensive purposes online fighting games are still in it's infancy. Consoles only started in 2003 (CVS2 god that was a headache), and before then on computers it was even worse. Compared to then the matches are above and beyond better then what we started with.
The companies have only really gotten serious about putting out a decent online match since Street Fighter IV came out and the market exploded. Before then we were such a small deomgraphic that we needed to shut up and accept whatever we got.
The technology needs to catch up enough to get the connections we all want. If you're asking for a flawless match with someone who had shit for internet speed then good luck, but as the technology advances and everyone can use an internet that can handle that demands of a fighting game then we can be more serious about matches.
It annoys me cause of family issues and health problems, I can really no longer get out and play offline. Online is my only solstice, so I understand the frustration. However I feel hopefully we are probably only 5 years or so away from it IMO. Just hope the fighting market holds up till then.
Even though I didn't buy that Color Pack DLC (waste of money) I'm still seeing those colors online, which I was under the impression that you couldn't see them in any capacity unless you paid for them. So yeah, my eyes are just being continiously tortured with Wario-Colored Dudley's.
And still no patch. GJ Capcom, give us hideously ugly DLC and no patch. Classy.
I should say one thing: If you manage to get a good connection with someone decent, the connection is DAMN good and better than GGPO. But man when you get a bad connection you sure as fuck feel it harder than on GGPO.
Yeah noticed that. Was really surprised the good connection stayed pretty stable. Played a good connection on Supercade and never felt comfortable parrying in a match. It would be nice though if you didn't have to wait 10-30 seconds to find out if the opponent has a good connection.
Patch is out on PSN. Online still sucks. Urge to kill rising.
Quote from: LouisCipher on September 27, 2011, 08:08:03 AM
Patch is out on PSN. Online still sucks. Urge to kill rising.
i have a sword that i can let you borrow
Quote from: LouisCipher on September 27, 2011, 08:08:03 AM
Patch is out on PSN. Online still sucks. Urge to kill rising.
I was about to come here and say "Online is still the same to me".
I have yet to play someone with Green bars, seriously, that is weird.
It gets weirder. I'm on East Coast, I've completed the Grinder achievement and have played over 2500 Matches and do you know how many Green Connections I found? Three. Two of which were at more than one point Yellow and were still laggy.
so i wonder what exactly went wrong up at capcom i mean gee gee pee oh was one of this games selling points so why is it still assbutt
I'm going to write to Iron Galaxies directly. I get the feeling that (A) this was rushed as fuck and they decided to patch it with every DLC release depending on sales or (B) colossal misjudgments were made.
well tell me how that goes
I said it before in the chat but I'll say it again that playing a Yellow ping connection is like fucking without a condom. Sometimes you're okay and it works out, and sometimes... not so much.
This is the most accurate description of Yellow Ping.
true that
I got a reply from Iron Galaxy:
QuoteI'm on PSN and the current state of the game online is pathetic guys.
Improvements that should be made:
Why not a list of players showing ping (an actual number instead of a symbol) and their respective countries and being able to challenge them? This is something FREE services like GGPO and Supercade already have. HDR handled this better. The matchmaking is complete garbage because of this.
>>> Not many console games show a ping number as the vast majority of users have no idea what it means (given the lack of PC experience). I don't suspect that will make you feel any better but that's why it's the way it is.
Allowing Gill to be playable online. This character should not have been made available at all online in any way shape or form. Because, many, many times the Host fails to ban the character and one dude picks him and the room empties out of disgust. At the very least he should be banned by default and the host has to manually un-ban him.
>>> He is banned in ranked, and in Player match he can be banned by the host so this seemed like a good compromise for the people that do want to use him when they are just goofing around with friends.
Why not restrict players with bad ping from entering lobbies? Again, the Host will refuse to remove a player with Red ping in a room filled with Yellow ping players.
>>> Not allowed to do this on XBLA/PSN
No Rematch option in Ranked? No best 2 out of 3 in Ranked? Why?
>>> We were afraid people could game the matchmaking system and artificially inflate their wins, thus ruining the leaderboards. Say for example you and a friend start matchmaking at the exact same time there's a pretty good chance you will end up in a ranked match together. If you did this on purpose and just rematched forever you could use this to boost. Our upcoming patch hopefully fixes the delay in starting a ranked match, so hopefully it won't be as painful to jump in one quickly and the need for rematch will be taken down a few notches.
Handling of lag: How is possible that on GGPO one could play the Street Fighter Alpha series, the KOF’s, Last Blade 2, the Samurai Shodown’s, Super Turbo, and etc with other people all over the world at pings up to 200 and it’s very playable. Very few dropped inputs. Almost exactly like offline play. And yet 3SOE plays like garbage with people in the same country? This makes no sense whatsoever. Making the game playable with people in Japan is one thing, but within the same country? What gives?
>>> We don't have dropped inputs online unless the game gets rolled back, which is the same as regular GGPO. You might want to set your GGPO Delay setting to be a bit larger and see if this fixes the problem.
The Trials are complete garbage. At best 1-2 Trials are something that’s practical. The rest are pointless and you will never use them in-game. I was under the impression that Trials were supposed to help new players to learn practical combos? If so than what’s the point of including almost entirely impractical combos?
>>> Sorry you don't like them
Can’t re-size the screen properly on CRTV’s. I tried and at best the lower left and top right corners of the screen are cut off with space on the far right.
>>> Every TV is different, and it's impossible to test with every kind. What brand/model is your TV?
Please fix the game. I'm sure these fixes couldn't be that costly.
how professional so i guess this means they know the game is still ass but refuse to fix it?
The color ping reasoning is completely retarded & the game not fitting on crts isn't a rare problem at all. It happens on mine and I've seen multiple people saying it happens on theirs too.
I wouldn't expect them to fix anything that doesn't completely ruin the game after this point since the developers have to pay sony/microsoft for every patch after the first one. HD remix still has problems but it just got abandoned after its 1st patch and I imagine the same thing will happen here.
I did write them back pointing out that HDR and MVC2 had ping numbers, not to mention every modern FPS even on consoles uses a number representing Ping. I rebuffed a lot of other things too.
There is no excuse from them to not have both, I mean they have a lot of space besides the PING "BOX".
Also I just don't get why they can't have QUICK RANK MATCHES and CUSTOM RANK MATCHES? Is it that difficulty to have both options? I wonder.
Got another reply, it's a bit generic but who knows...
QuoteHey thanks for the constructive comments again. This is the kind of feedback we take seriously and it will get factored into things we do with future Title Updates/Games.
I can't guarantee anything like #'s for pings or stuff like that, but I will make sure this info gets forwarded onto Capcom and they understand your point of view.
-Dave
I hadn't played the game for 2 weeks thanks to exam, how has been your experience lous? For better or for worse, after some weeks I doubt that all the players are still playing it, or maybe the gave an update to the netcode
As I said previously if you find someone with a good connection and they're a good player to boot, it's a good experience, better than GGPO by a bit. But when it lags... holy shit. I'd say the experience is closer to Supercade/2DF only more retarded. I can't count how many times I've knocked them down, I'm well within range to Powerbomb them without the threat of them grabbing me, but no! They grab me anyway or mash Jab and that somehow beats Command Grabs online.
Online still sucks dick. PSN is almost a wasteland now. Plenty, and I mean plenty of Ken's using SA1 and Ryu's using SA2. It's sad.
I'm half-tempted to pick up an Xbox because I keep hearing the online is better and there's more Green Connections. But who knows. It's either because PSN sucks or there's simply more people on XBLA. I think it may be the later. I know there's a lot of 360 fanboys on SRK that take every opportunity they can to bash the PS3.
From my experience, the online on 360 and PS3 is pretty close. This generation, Capcom games tend to run better on 360 hardware, for some reason. Maybe that's why there are more 3S players on 360. I sold my 360 today because I was tired of it telling me my router was restricting my LIVE experience and recommending I use the wireless connection instead. My PS3 never gives me any problems playing online.
With the game using GGPO, the connection should be peer-to-peer so the service should have little impact on the experience.
Quote from: nilcam on October 16, 2011, 04:29:17 AM
From my experience, the online on 360 and PS3 is pretty close. This generation, Capcom games tend to run better on 360 hardware, for some reason. Maybe that's why there are more 3S players on 360. I sold my 360 today because I was tired of it telling me my router was restricting my LIVE experience and recommending I use the wireless connection instead. My PS3 never gives me any problems playing online.
With the game using GGPO, the connection should be peer-to-peer so the service should have little impact on the experience.
please tell me you used the money you got from your 360 to get something cool like a bunch of gundam kits or some 5 dollar hookers
I'm buying a reissue of the G1 Devastator! It has diecast metal and shit.
Quote from: nilcam on October 16, 2011, 05:46:08 AM
I'm buying a reissue of the G1 Devastator! It has diecast metal and shit.
no clue what that is but grats and also i really hope you dont regret selling your xbox i know enough people who have done that and it's really came back to bite them in the ass too
Well the 360 has more competition on 3S not because PSN sucks, the reason is that most SSF4 good players are in the 360. Since the 360 version of SSF4 is closer to the arcade, compared to the PS3 version. And as Nilcam said, both PS3 and 360 versions of 3S are basically the same, they don't bother moving to PSN since they have most of their competition in the 360 already. So that might be the reason PSN isn't getting much action on 3S.
The only thing I don't like about the PS3 is the layout of the menu, it's a little confusing to find everything. That, and when I check a message while in game and respond then come back to the game most of the time it freezes for a good 20 seconds.
Quote from: Xxenace on October 16, 2011, 07:14:04 AM
Quote from: nilcam on October 16, 2011, 05:46:08 AM
I'm buying a reissue of the G1 Devastator! It has diecast metal and shit.
no clue what that is but grats and also i really hope you dont regret selling your xbox i know enough people who have done that and it's really came back to bite them in the ass too
It's a Japanese reissue of an old Transformers toy. I collect old Transformers.
I thought for a long time about the 360 but it sat there ignored for almost 5 months now. I'm also not in a position to drop $60 or so to play online when I can do it for free.
Quote from: nilcam on October 16, 2011, 04:29:17 AM
From my experience, the online on 360 and PS3 is pretty close. This generation, Capcom games tend to run better on 360 hardware, for some reason. Maybe that's why there are more 3S players on 360. I sold my 360 today because I was tired of it telling me my router was restricting my LIVE experience and recommending I use the wireless connection instead. My PS3 never gives me any problems playing online.
With the game using GGPO, the connection should be peer-to-peer so the service should have little impact on the experience.
That's mad funny... I have more issues with my ps3 than with my 360, and both are set up very similar... What model 360 did you have???
One of the new slim ones. I think the engineers built both systems to fight over the network settings. :(
It seems that your problem was with the NAT nilcam, I had the same deal and I called to my internet provider to fix that
Quote from: sibarraz on October 17, 2011, 07:11:09 AM
It seems that your problem was with the NAT nilcam, I had the same deal and I called to my internet provider to fix that
I was thinking about the exact same thing... I know giving a system a static ip and configing it around that remedies most of those situations...
LouisCipher, are there any matchmaking threads other than SRK that might help you get some good matches on 3SOE???
That's strange that SSF4 does better on 360 than on ps3... Tekken 6 is better on ps3 than on 360 because its 2 frames slower on the 360, and that's not even during an online match...
Nilcam, please tell me you got Grimlock in your collection-- pretty please???
Not yet. Grimlock hasn't been reissued YET. I am getting a World's Smallest Dinobot set that is 3 inch tall versions of the G1 figures, complete with diecast metal!
On topic: I had both of my systems assigned a static IP and both had their ports forwarded. The bottom line came down to me not playing the system very much and not wanting to pay $60 a year for online.
Quote from: nilcam on October 17, 2011, 10:28:39 PM
Not yet. Grimlock hasn't been reissued YET. I am getting a World's Smallest Dinobot set that is 3 inch tall versions of the G1 figures, complete with diecast metal!
On topic: I had both of my systems assigned a static IP and both had their ports forwarded. The bottom line came down to me not playing the system very much and not wanting to pay $60 a year for online.
Word.. I understand that... I didn't play my ps3 much til White Knight Chronicles, and Tekken 6... Glad the KoF games rolled in though... Real talk, I only got a ps3 hoping FFXIV would be released. I'm still glad I got one though... I'm gonna have to get a copy of XIII for both my 360 and ps3...
I'll say this, for some reason the 360 version tends to do better online than the PS3 version. Now there can be a VARIETY of reasons for that, and most of them have nothing really to do with the actual hardware differences between the 360 and PS3 versions.
Like Louis said, Green Bars for this game (and good competition) is a GREAT experience, even if you get bodied. And you seem to get a lot more green bars on the 360 for whatever reason.
I do hate the laziness Capcom went with toward the matchmaking and the ping numbers, but the fact that they even decided to use GGPO is a step up from their usual atrocities, and I don't know if we can blame them for everything. GGPO can only do so much, and the net service of the US is absolutely horrid compared to places like Japan, not to mention a good amount of people we'd play online probably have bad or wireless connections, making the problem worse. Most people who would play on GGPO had more optimal systems due to it being PC based.
Honestly, and I don't really wanna say this, but...there's no way console FG's will ever be that good online unless the US net infrastructure is drastically changed, which it likely won't be for a while. In other words, if FG's REALLY want to get things done online...it has to be for PC, there's no other option. More wired connections, most likely better rigs and better connections overall as people will care about it more. I hate saying this crap because my PC is ass, but unless shit seriously changes around here, idk what else people can do.
Quote from: Saitsuofleaves on October 17, 2011, 11:01:02 PM
Honestly, and I don't really wanna say this, but...there's no way console FG's will ever be that good online unless the US net infrastructure is drastically changed, which it likely won't be for a while. In other words, if FG's REALLY want to get things done online...it has to be for PC, there's no other option. More wired connections, most likely better rigs and better connections overall as people will care about it more. I hate saying this crap because my PC is ass, but unless shit seriously changes around here, idk what else people can do.
From what I remember a long time ago, the US' net-infrastructure is the oldest, which explains the low performance when compared to say Sweden or Japan's net-infrastructure; I mean old like the late 60's/ early 70's old. It was merely built upon overtime, but never "rebuilt". Other countries managed to get better equipment, so while we're kicking out 1.024 Mbps, they're doing double that...
Anyway, long story short, the US isn't gonna do anything major in terms of doing an "overhaul" on the network... It would make sense, seeing that the speed and space requirements increase every few years, but they're busy trying to put a leash on the network usage...
You also gotta look at it like this: Japan is mad smaller than the US, and so are many countries in Europe. We're one "united" land mass, so we have to make something that works across all of America, and then make sure it complies with whatever the other countries throw out at us. What's even worse is that some companies that merely come out saying they "provide better and cheaper service" are just simply leeching from some other bigger company, and charging a bit less, only because they're providing service to a smaller region, and they can charge extra for a boost... I think some of those countries start off with better service, because they're not trying to give their customers the run-around, but I dunno, I don't live out there... Anyone's thoughts???
I was also thinking, ps3 is supposed to be so powerful with that cell chip, and for a minute they supported Unix, until they took it off (so now only the USAF can use Unix on their ps3s for research), would the performance be that compared to a pc running GGPO if the consumers had true control over their ps3s??? I mean control as in they can mod the system to simply do more than Sony says it can do, and if they didn't take away the "other os" option... Alot of owners were truly upset about that option being removed...
That is completely true. As I recall, there was a Linux distro available that was essentially the kernel, GUI and MAME which would allow a lot of emulation. GGPO would be harder since it is Windows specific, despite requiring Air which is designed to support multiple OSes. To be honest, I much prefer playing on PSN than GGPO/Supercade/ArcLive. No muss, no fuss. Hit the power, grab a controller and go.
Quote from: nilcam on October 18, 2011, 03:33:55 PM
To be honest, I much prefer playing on PSN than GGPO/Supercade/ArcLive. No muss, no fuss. Hit the power, grab a controller and go.
Same here. The wait for all the games I'd want to play on 360/PS3 feels really too long, but it's the best bet I see. Actually, make most if not everyone make their connections wired, then I'd call it best bet.