Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Saiki => Topic started by: Aenthin on July 29, 2011, 06:34:30 PM
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(http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc333/daikem/Saiki.png)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throws
;bk / ;fd + ;c / ;d = In
Command Normals
In air, ;fd + ;b
In air, ;bk + ;b
Specials
;dn ;df ;fd + ;a / ;c = Kiyoku no Tsuki*
;fd ;dn ;df + ;b / ;d = Hanetsurube no Nata*
∟ (D/EX version only) hold ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d = Kazahazushi no Tsuchi
;dn ;db ;bk + ;b / ;d = Hiori no Kusabi*
∟ (D/EX version only) hold ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d = Ura Shichiri
;dn ;dn + ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d = Shichiri Gake*
(EX Version can be done in air)
Super Specials
;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b / ;d = Washiba Otoshi
In air, ;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;b / ;d = Yami Otoshi
;dn ;df ;fd ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a / ;c = Tokoyami no Fune
Near opponent, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk + ;a / ;c = Kyoryu no Ori
NeoMax
;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd + ;a ;c = Kasumi
The King of Fighters XIII: Saiki Movelist Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stY9GVyBHfI#ws)
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Sample Combos and Videos:
サイキ・変身前 コンボ1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkmngnV-9I#ws)
サイキ・変身前 コンボ2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmzZ4uhwu2M#ws)
I thought we should start talking about Saiki too. The Answer should be able to talk about him more, having played him beforehand, telling about combos and fill in some of the moves in the movelist I have missed.
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UNLOCK SAIKI:
To unlock Saiki you need to complete 50 target actions by the end of your third match, then defeat him once you face him. If you average 6 target actions per round you should be able to unlock him.
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It's missing some moves and DM.
You can see all of his moves and DM and NeoMax in the Atlus page (character section, click on the move name):
http://www.atlus.com/kofxiii/ (http://www.atlus.com/kofxiii/)
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My notes on Saiki:
Special Moves:
*The HK/EX versions of the Hanetsurube no Nata can follow up to the Kasahazushi no Tsuchi
**Kasahazushi no Tsuchi has him teleporting to the opposite side of the air, doing an air version of his CD attack
**Press LP, LK, HP, or HK to activate the Kasahazushi no Tsuchi during the HK/EX versions of the Hanetsurube no Nata
*He has another Special Move known as the Hiori no Kusabi, which is him doing a straight forward kick
**Command for Hiori no Kusabi is qcb + K
**The HK/EX versions of it can follow up to the Ura Shichiri
***Ura Shichiri has him teleporting from the air, think Dhalsim's Yoga Teleport, but with him reappearing from the Air
***Press LP, LK, HP, or HK to activate the Ura Shichiri during the HK/EX versions of the Hiori no Kusabi
*Shichiri Gake has him teleporting closer to the player.
**The EX version of it can also be done in the air
Desperation Moves:
*He has a DM known as the Yami Otoshi, which can be done in the air
**Command is qcfx2 + K in the air
**It has him rubbing his shoe on his opponent's face, but he kicks them at the end of it
**It can Max Cancel to his Neomax
**EX Version is unknown
*He has another DM known as Washiba Otoshi, which has him doing Ash's Nivose, teleporting in the air doing three more attacks, and finally stomping on his opponent in the end.
**EX Version is unknown
*Kyoryu no Ori is similar to Hell Bringer and Final Bringer, but it can only be triggered if Saiki is close to the opponent.
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Didn't he have a command normal? I thought I saw him doing something similar to Ash's Floreal.
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Combos
- cr.Bx3, qcb+B/qcfx2+K/ qcb+B (SC) qcfx2+K
- cr.Bx3, qcb+B, (DC) qcf+C, j.b+B, qcb+A, dp+D~
- j.C, st.C, qcb+D, [Warp], j.b+B, dp+D/qcfx2+K
- j.C, J.b+B, st.C, [HD] st.C, [qcb+B, (DC) qcf+C, qcf+A]x4, qcb+B, (DC) qcb+C, (Air) qcfx2+K, (Max Cancel) qcb hcf+AC
- j.C, j.b+B, st.A, st.C, [HD] st.C, dp+B, (DC) qcf+C, j.b+Bx2, qcf+A, dp+B, (DC) qcb+C, j.b+Bx3, qcb+A, dp+D, (DC) qcb+C~
Might be a mistake or two in there.
Didn't he have a command normal? I thought I saw him doing something similar to Ash's Floreal.
Yeah, it's 4B in the air.
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Might as well post this too:
http://orochinagi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=3358 (http://orochinagi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=3358)
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EDIT: ROM/PC dump talk is not allowed. - FataCon
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He also had a air ;fd ;b. Just like Ash's but in the air.
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Added the sample combo videos on the first post...or should I post them on the last post instead?
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Wow! I didn't know this thread had been started lol, anyway I like air b/f.B, I was using it a lot to bait opponents DP or Anti Air.
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Saiki's teleport where interesting. They have have long recovery though.
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I have seen all of Saiki's DMs except the command grab one. Is there a video where I can see it?
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All Saiki's moves (save for EX versions) are available on the official US site: http://www.atlus.com/kofxiii/ (http://www.atlus.com/kofxiii/)
Just go to the character section, click on him, and then click on each move. It'll display an animation of each.
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I would have thought that someone would have let us know which of Saiki's DMs have an EX form.
(Sucks not knowing things...)
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I would have thought that someone would have let us know which of Saiki's DMs have an EX form.
(Sucks not knowing things...)
You're in luck! While testing out Maxima on the eLive stream, the dummy was Saiki. They happened to do his EX command grab DM.
He grabbed the opponent much the same, but waves of dark energy drew from the opponent, into Saiki, king of like the rings on a basketball; they formed arches. At the end of the move, rather than tossing them away across the screen, he threw them downward towards the ground, and a 45 degree angle. It looked as if maybe you could Max Cancel at that point, to semi-OTG them, but otherwise, it looked like they bounced once, and got back up.
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I would have thought that someone would have let us know which of Saiki's DMs have an EX form.
(Sucks not knowing things...)
You're in luck! While testing out Maxima on the eLive stream, the dummy was Saiki. They happened to do his EX command grab DM.
He grabbed the opponent much the same, but waves of dark energy drew from the opponent, into Saiki, king of like the rings on a basketball; they formed arches. At the end of the move, rather than tossing them away across the screen, he threw them downward towards the ground, and a 45 degree angle. It looked as if maybe you could Max Cancel at that point, to semi-OTG them, but otherwise, it looked like they bounced once, and got back up.
I'm guessing that's his only DM with an EX version?
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I'm guessing that's his only DM with an EX version?
Not sure. I don't remember if we've seen another.
However, I did notice while watching some Saiki gameplay by the Evo casuals players (probably No. 17), that the grab actually saps health. (In a chunk, after the grab is over.) Looked like maybe 1 block (10%)?
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I'm guessing that's his only DM with an EX version?
Not sure. I don't remember if we've seen another.
However, I did notice while watching some Saiki gameplay by the Evo casuals players (probably No. 17), that the grab actually saps health. (In a chunk, after the grab is over.) Looked like maybe 1 block (10%)?
Heidern, is that you?
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Heidern, is that you?
A sneaky way to get Storm / Final Bringer into the game, too. I didn't really WANT to be interested in Saiki, but giving him a life-sucking DM/EXDM command throw + fancy aerial tricks does make me more interested in him...
I think the best overall play of him that we've seen so far has been No.17's Evo play. He really made it obvious that as long as Saiki has meter, he's pretty hard to approach. His Anti-Air DM might be the best in the game O.o.
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Can't wait to use him
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[Bas Gros Poing] Gamescom 2011 : reportage au pif sur Kof XIII console (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uioH10RBAA#ws)
Starting at around 7 min in, we see the player start to test out Saiki's moves. He also shows his command list, which seems to have symbols for what does and does not have EXs, if anyone wants to look through that.
At 8:03, you can see Saiki's EX DM in action. FINAL BRINGER! *ahem*
There might be much more to this vid, but I've only watches some of it, but thought it might be helpful to those who want to see him explored in detail!
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The King of Fighters XIII - Console Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b6_vRcM4Yw#ws)
At around 1:26 in this video it shows Saiki doing a move where he steps on his opponent multiple times. What move is this?
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It's probably Yami Otoshi (in air, qcf2x+K) except it doesn't do multiple hits anymore, it seems, unless the move has an EX version and that was basically it.
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It's probably Yami Otoshi (in air, qcf2x+K) except it doesn't do multiple hits anymore, it seems, unless the move has an EX version and that was basically it.
I think we would have known if that move had an EX version by now.
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It could also be an alternative animation effect like Kensou's f,d,df+P or Athena's Neomax.
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Is saiki good at zoning? I know KOF games are very rushdown oriented but as an HF/ST/HDR player I'm drawn to characters who play like sagat lol.
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Is saiki good at zoning? I know KOF games are very rushdown oriented but as an HF/ST/HDR player I'm drawn to characters who play like sagat lol.
He's got teleporting moves, and the ;a version of his projectile is good at catching people who are trying to jump towards you. So I guess he is kinda good at that.
That's all I can tell you. Maybe others can tell you more.
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Well he's got a decent DP, and the D version of it can switch positions (I mean, say you as Saiki are in the corner, opponent jumps in and you D DP, it puts the opponent in the corner).
His EX Projectile also seems extremely tricky when it just goes half screen and stays there for a while.
And yeah, he has a teleport.
I'd say he's a good zoner.
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Well he's got a decent DP, and the D version of it can switch positions
Doesn't it have to land in order to do the teleport?
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Well he's got a decent DP, and the D version of it can switch positions
Doesn't it have to land in order to do the teleport?
Yeah...which shouldn't be a problem.
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Well he's got a decent DP, and the D version of it can switch positions
Doesn't it have to land in order to do the teleport?
Yeah...which shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah... from what I've seen, that dp has an incredible hitbox.
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Not to mention, you shouldn't be doing DPs unless you're sure they're probably gonna land.
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Not to mention, you shouldn't be doing DPs unless you're sure they're probably gonna land.
see they don't teach you this in the street fighter community (which i'm shamed to say).
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Not to mention, you shouldn't be doing DPs unless you're sure they're probably gonna land.
see they don't teach you this in the street fighter community (which i'm shamed to say).
That's because of the SFs themselves. In SF4, you can FADC to safety. In SF3, if it's not in a combo, you got to worry about getting your ass parried. In SF2, if you're Ken, Jab DP is relatively safe, beats a shit ton of crap, and builds a decent amount of meter.
Hell, in XIII, Ryo's A DP seems safe enough from what I remember (at least for console, someone can correct me if I'm misinformed) so yeah...
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Not to mention, you shouldn't be doing DPs unless you're sure they're probably gonna land.
see they don't teach you this in the street fighter community (which i'm shamed to say).
That's because of the SFs themselves. In SF4, you can FADC to safety. In SF3, if it's not in a combo, you got to worry about getting your ass parried. In SF2, if you're Ken, Jab DP is relatively safe, beats a shit ton of crap, and builds a decent amount of meter.
Hell, in XIII, Ryo's A DP seems safe enough from what I remember (at least for console, someone can correct me if I'm misinformed) so yeah...
ryo did get his a dp buffed so you're right
i mean't like if you ever go online you see tons of people just mashing and not even FADCing in sf4.
and as a 3s player i can tell you that the factor of thinking you can parry everything if it isn't safe really lowers your game since you have to take risks at some point ( especially with certain characters like akuma ). and trying to parry everything is also bad since without an amazing amount of skill you're going to get hit blocking is more likely to happen.
however you are right that parrying makes it a bigger risk.
*EDIT since i have contributed absolutely nothing to this thread about kof, i'm interested in seeing just how useful the teleports will be since it looks pretty nice.
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Well yeah, but I'm not gonna talk about noobs doing DPs, noobs will spam everything, that's on them.
And I realize that you shouldn't try and parry everything, I was more referring to jumping in on a Shoto. And usually there's a little OS in there where you hit forward then hit your normal, if the DP comes out it gets parried, if not, your Jump In Normal comes out.
But people will DP just to DP as long as they can DP. Trust me, we'll get plenty of it in KOF as well.
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Well yeah, but I'm not gonna talk about noobs doing DPs, noobs will spam everything, that's on them.
i see 3000pp people online doing this it's not just noobs
so how will that kick move be used for saiki? does the Ex version have a special property to it?
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Well yeah, but I'm not gonna talk about noobs doing DPs, noobs will spam everything, that's on them.
i see 3000pp people online doing this it's not just noobs
so how will that kick move be used for saiki? does the Ex version have a special property to it?
Well then I have to see the context of the matches.
And I'm not that sure on Saiki. I'm gonna hope someone on the stream really gets in with him.
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I'm liking what I've seen with Saiki, he seems like a great point character. He's a great jack of all trades, great zoning and can do some decent rushdown. I can't wait to crack him open in the lab.
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I'm liking what I've seen with Saiki, he seems like a great point character. He's a great jack of all trades, great zoning and can do some decent rushdown. I can't wait to crack him open in the lab.
Yeah, I'm considering putting him in my team. But I don't know who to take off! I like my Duo Lon/Kula/Iori team! :(
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Yeah, I'm considering putting him in my team. But I don't know who to take off! I like my Duo Lon/Kula/Iori team! :(
[/quote]
I wouldn't say you have to take anyone off, but I suggest alternating between Saiki and Duo lon. Their both really good point characters with great pokes and keep away. They both build good meter and don't require much themselves. Like if your duo lon is having issues with a certain character your facing, switch him out with Saiki for your second set and see how you do. That's just my opinion. You could also get away with switching him with Kula if you want to use more meter with him, I could see that functioning really well also.
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I wouldn't say you have to take anyone off, but I suggest alternating between Saiki and Duo lon. Their both really good point characters with great pokes and keep away. They both build good meter and don't require much themselves. Like if your duo lon is having issues with a certain character your facing, switch him out with Saiki for your second set and see how you do. That's just my opinion. You could also get away with switching him with Kula if you want to use more meter with him, I could see that functioning really well also.
That's true. I never considered alternating...
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Also helps those pesky matchups.
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Also helps those pesky matchups.
I'm always in the dark about those (and I really don't care about them either)
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Knowing your matchups will make you a much better player.
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I agree, not enough people study the other characters, but I love that Saiki seems to have a good time against most of the cast. He seems like a great character to learn the game with.
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I always have fun studying characters in most games. In a lot of cases, you find things out you never knew before, or tech that people just shelve and never use.
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Another thing I have to say about match-ups:
People who pick their character or their team just because it is a good match-up against their opponent suck. This is another reason why I don't really care for match-ups.
If their character is a better match-up against my character, then I'll just have to find a better way to outdo his dude. I think that makes you a better player than just knowing match-ups.
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Although knowing match-ups is important, simply counter picking will get you but so far. It allk comes down to who's the smarter player anyway.
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Although knowing match-ups is important, simply counter picking will get you but so far. It allk comes down to who's the smarter player anyway.
In KoF, counter picking isn't too important to me, because I pick characters with good themes. Sounds pretty lame but hey, that's why I want to pick up Saiki.
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Another thing I have to say about match-ups:
People who pick their character or their team just because it is a good match-up against their opponent suck. This is another reason why I don't really care for match-ups.
If their character is a better match-up against my character, then I'll just have to find a better way to outdo his dude. I think that makes you a better player than just knowing match-ups.
If I play 4 characters well as mains (which I actually intend to do for this game), and I think my 4th character might do better against someone then one in my "main" three, then damn right I'm gonna switch it. It shouldn't be a problem if you're actually well versed in characters rather than only having a basic gamestyle and then trying to counter pick.
Saiki right now is on the outside looking in of my main team, but I'm sure he'll have better luck against certain teams than maybe King would. If I think that's the case, I will indeed give Saiki the nod over King.
As for using the lack of counter picking as a reason for not caring about matchups, that's BS. If anything, that makes it MORE important to know matchups. If a character you know loses a matchup even barely, but you still don't know how to approach the matchup itself to help your odds of winning, it's only going to make the match THAT much harder on you.
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That's the same concept I follow. You should always have a couple of pocket characters in case someone on your team is having a hard time. You should definitely master all aspects of each of your characters though including their bad match-ups.
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All this talk about Saiki, but those anybody know how to unlock him? ;)
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Another thing I have to say about match-ups:
People who pick their character or their team just because it is a good match-up against their opponent suck. This is another reason why I don't really care for match-ups.
If their character is a better match-up against my character, then I'll just have to find a better way to outdo his dude. I think that makes you a better player than just knowing match-ups.
If I play 4 characters well as mains (which I actually intend to do for this game), and I think my 4th character might do better against someone then one in my "main" three, then damn right I'm gonna switch it. It shouldn't be a problem if you're actually well versed in characters rather than only having a basic gamestyle and then trying to counter pick.
Saiki right now is on the outside looking in of my main team, but I'm sure he'll have better luck against certain teams than maybe King would. If I think that's the case, I will indeed give Saiki the nod over King.
As for using the lack of counter picking as a reason for not caring about matchups, that's BS. If anything, that makes it MORE important to know matchups. If a character you know loses a matchup even barely, but you still don't know how to approach the matchup itself to help your odds of winning, it's only going to make the match THAT much harder on you.
You seem to have misread what I posted.
I said that the fact that some people do that is what makes me not care about them.
I know it's not a good reason, but you can't just decide if I'm BS'ing.
And with a game as balanced as this one, will matchups really matter?
...But with all my defending my reason as to why I don't care about matchups, I'm just very lazy =P
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Balance just means tiers won't matter (as if they ever did). Matchups are always important. In a game with more than 2 characters and they aren't palette swaps, some characters will automatically have an advantage over others. To become truly good in the game, you're gonna have to know what advantages they have, and how to neutralize them.
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Balance just means tiers won't matter (as if they ever did). Matchups are always important. In a game with more than 2 characters and they aren't palette swaps, some characters will automatically have an advantage over others. To become truly good in the game, you're gonna have to know what advantages they have, and how to neutralize them.
Terms like these just make the game sound boring.
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Sorry, BEAT their advantages. Is that better?
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lol
I guess I can start paying more attention to matchups.
But I will never allow myself to become a counter-picker!
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Well, after playing Saiki a bit, he has great stuff as I thought, however he also has a ton of crap that has very precise inputs.
His Roundhouse Kick and DP followups are a pain (the DP moreso than the Roundhouse Kick).
His Fireball DM though is just dirty. I can see some nasty setups coming from it.
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Well, after playing Saiki a bit, he has great stuff as I thought, however he also has a ton of crap that has very precise inputs.
His Roundhouse Kick and DP followups are a pain (the DP moreso than the Roundhouse Kick).
His Fireball DM though is just dirty. I can see some nasty setups coming from it.
I assume you're not talking about the joystick motions, because those are easy.
So what do you mean by that, then?
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Drive cancelling into fireball on his DP is so absurdly difficult because a lot of the time I'll end up super cancelling instead of drive cancelling.
Anybody figure out a good way to do it consistently? Putting the stick back at neutral sounds like the way to do it, but I haven't figured out where exactly to do that yet.
EDIT:
Nevermind, just figured out I could tap the button after the DP to drive cancel in to it.
Boy KOF XIII sure is nice about this stuff.
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Well, after playing Saiki a bit, he has great stuff as I thought, however he also has a ton of crap that has very precise inputs.
His Roundhouse Kick and DP followups are a pain (the DP moreso than the Roundhouse Kick).
His Fireball DM though is just dirty. I can see some nasty setups coming from it.
I assume you're not talking about the joystick motions, because those are easy.
So what do you mean by that, then?
I mean the button input you hit after Roundhouse or DP in order to get the followup. The Roundhouse Kick isn't too hard to get the followup after practice, but the DP is annoying as hell.
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How exactly would you guys categorize Saiki as a character. Is he a zoner, rushdown, mixture etc. I was looking through his mission mode today and doing some of the combos seemed pretty interesting wondering whether i should pick him up or not.
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He's a decent zoner, good DP, Fireball, a psuedo-Fireball to cover the air, a Fireball DM that hovers in the center of the screen.
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Well, after playing Saiki a bit, he has great stuff as I thought, however he also has a ton of crap that has very precise inputs.
His Roundhouse Kick and DP followups are a pain (the DP moreso than the Roundhouse Kick).
His Fireball DM though is just dirty. I can see some nasty setups coming from it.
I assume you're not talking about the joystick motions, because those are easy.
So what do you mean by that, then?
I mean the button input you hit after Roundhouse or DP in order to get the followup. The Roundhouse Kick isn't too hard to get the followup after practice, but the DP is annoying as hell.
Oh, you mean the follow up!
Yeah, I can see how that would be annoying. You have to HOLD the button to do that, right?
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Huh? We have to hold it? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, I did NOT know that.
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Scrub question how do you unlock saiki
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Scrub question how do you unlock saiki
If you got billy already choose him on your team and play doing as many target actions as possible, he should challenge you. It worked for me
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This should be on the first post BTW, maybe we can get a mod to add it.
To unlock Saiki you need to complete 50 target actions by the end of your third match, then defeat him once you face him. If you average 6 target actions per round you should be able to unlock him.
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thanks guys
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This should be on the first post BTW, maybe we can get a mod to add it.
To unlock Saiki you need to complete 50 target actions by the end of your third match, then defeat him once you face him. If you average 6 target actions per round you should be able to unlock him.
Done.
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Actually, I think it's points. Target Actions just helps a lot in raking points. You could also rake points by doing perfects, straights and finishing matches with DMs and Neomax. (To that last bit, I found this guy who was just really good with combos and almost always ended his matches with DMs and he got to Boss Saiki everytime when I normally had to use Target Actions to get to him).
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I really wanna break down and explore Saiki before NEC, because I think he has a ton of potential. Unfortunately I seem to be ass at any extended HD combos.
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I really wanna break down and explore Saiki before NEC, because I think he has a ton of potential. Unfortunately I seem to be ass at any extended HD combos.
I started messing around with Saiki and he does have so many good tools.
Same here about the extended HD combos, I usually go for 2 or 3 hd cancels into a DM to a max cancel. Easy to do with many characters and it does a huge amount of damage.
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I'll have to find a decent HD combo for Saiki because he doesn't have any hitconfirms from lights. He might need those HD combos in the end.
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Alright, I hate to double post, but I think it's best to try and help out the wiki. Let's post our thought on his pokes, his tools, his BnB confirms, his good Drive and HD combos and any general gameplay discussion in order to really fill it out when the mods feel it's time.
Of course, it will be a bit annoying for Saiki until we really know how to open him up...
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This s going to be a long post, but i've been labbing/running Saiki and i'm just going to share my thoughts and the technology i've found. Saiki in my opinion is definitely a jack of all trades, who's well versed in all forms of combat. His pressure strings aren't bad and his confirms are devastating when he's anchor so without further a do here we go. Saiki is also the safe jump king he has 3 separate safe jumps i've created and tested against everyone in the cast.
Safe Jump Option Select: 1 (Midscreen)
Setup(s):
1) 2B > 2A > 2C > 214BD > > 214D > [C] > 236236B > wait a second > SJ > J[1]D
2) JD > 5C > 214BD > > 214D > [C] > 236236B
Works On Everyone except Athena Shining Crystal Bit
Safe Jump Option select: 2 (Corner)
Setups(s):
JD > 5C > 214D > 5D > J.A > land > shorthop [9] > J[1]D
Works On:
o Kula (Except EX DP)
o Kyo (shorthop 8 to safe jump Kyo)
o Benimaru (Except EX DP)
x Ash
o Terry
o Andy
o Joe
o Ryo
o Robert
o Elisabeth
o King
o Yuri
o K' (shorthop J[1]A for safejump)
o Athena (Except Desperation Move)
o Kensou
o Leona
o Kim (Except EX DP)
o Hwa
o Ralf
o Iori
Safe Jump Option Select: 3 (Corner)
Setups(s):
1) 2A > 2A > 236AC > 214D > [D] > 4B > 623A > 236236A > 236C > 214D > [D] > j236236B > wait a second > SJ > J[1]D
2) JD > 5C > 236AC > 214D > [D] > 4B > 623A > 236236A > 236C > 214D > [D] > j236236B > wait a second > SJ > J[1]D
Works On:
o Kyo (Full Jump)
o Benimaru (J[1]A)
o Terry
o Andy
o Joe
o Ash (J[1]A)
o Saiki
o Ryo
o Robert (J[1]A)
o Iori (J[1}A)
o Elisabeth
o Kim (J[1]A)
o Hwa (J[1]A)
o King
o Yuri (J[1]A)
o K' (J[1]A)
o Kula (Except EX DP)
o Athena (Except DM)
o Kensou
o Ralf (J[1]A)
o Leona (J[1]A)
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Simple HD combo into NeoMax to fall back on in the corner.
C, [HD], C xx [DP+B [HDC] QCF+C, QCF+A] x3, QCFx2+B (or D, guess it doesn't matter) xx [MC] QCBHCF+AC
Does 923 Damage for 3 meters and is easy to remember.
Adding a hop.D at the beginning bumps it up to 947.
Hell, just without the Neomax, it does around 700 Damage for one meter and full Drive in the corner which is very nice.
EDIT: Also, does anyone think we should honestly start moving to cl.D as our starter of choice? Same damage and range as C, only it won't whiff on some crouchers.
EDIT: Another thing, if people don't mind, I can try to do a writeup on Saiki, with his normals, specials and such on here so the mods can finally update the wiki. If no one objects, I'll try to get it up tomorrow.
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Simple HD combo into NeoMax to fall back on in the corner.
C, [HD], C xx [DP+B [HDC] QCF+C, QCF+A] x3, QCFx2+B (or D, guess it doesn't matter) xx [MC] QCBHCF+AC
Does 923 Damage for 3 meters and is easy to remember.
Adding a hop.D at the beginning bumps it up to 947.
Hell, just without the Neomax, it does around 700 Damage for one meter and full Drive in the corner which is very nice.
EDIT: Also, does anyone think we should honestly start moving to cl.D as our starter of choice? Same damage and range as C, only it won't whiff on some crouchers.
EDIT: Another thing, if people don't mind, I can try to do a writeup on Saiki, with his normals, specials and such on here so the mods can finally update the wiki. If no one objects, I'll try to get it up tomorrow.
I find it easier to use his C just because I'm used to it but his D seems better for the reasons you posted.
Hmm...If you are about...uh...two or three jumps away from the corner...you can do this to bring them to the corner...
C, [HD], C xx QCB+D hold C, into [DP+B [HDC] QCF+C, QCF+A] x3, QCFx2+Dxx [MC] QCBHCF+AC
33 hits 940 damage.
EDIT: first time I said the loop had to be done 2 times. its 3.
A hop in D bumps it up to 970 HOLLA
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Nice solid way to get them into the corner, good job. Maybe we can do a little more to push them in if we're midscreen or further. We should probably lay off on the HD combos if our backs are to the corner though.
And I will ask again, does anyone object to me making some kind of writeup for the thread, which people can of course comment on and edit if need be.
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Nice solid way to get them into the corner, good job. Maybe we can do a little more to push them in if we're midscreen or further. We should probably lay off on the HD combos if our backs are to the corner though.
And I will ask again, does anyone object to me making some kind of writeup for the thread, which people can of course comment on and edit if need be.
Yeah. I usually have Saiki on the 2nd position since he will most likely have his meter to fool around by then. His fireball hits crouching opponents, which is good since a lot of people tend to low poke characters in the corner, and as you know, his DP follow up switches place with the opponent.
I have no objections (hehehehe) to the writeup
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I have him at Stopgap as well, though I'm considering moving him to Anchor since my Hwa is nowhere near good enough to handle the show of being anchor, so I might move him to point and Kensou to stopgap.
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I have him at Stopgap as well, though I'm considering moving him to Anchor since my Hwa is nowhere near good enough to handle the show of being anchor, so I might move him to point and Kensou to stopgap.
Are you like a mirror version of me?!
I put Athena and Joe with Saiki...and you put Hwa and Kensou with yours!
I put Joe up front since I don't really rely on his long flashy combos since he has "hard" hitting simple no meter BnBs.
Saiki seems really good once he gets meter, and his damaging combos really only require HD stock more than anything else.
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Saiki Writeup: Sp=Special Cancelable DM=DM Cancelable CN: Command Normal Cancelable
s.A: 25 DMG/Sp/DM
Your typical stand jab. Nothing special, half decent against hop in attempts which it will be used mainly for, but other than that, not that great. Whiffs on crouchers as well.
s.B: 30 DMG/Sp/DM
Not a terrible move. Decently quick, and it does hit low from a standing position which can be tricky for some to deal with especially after hop in pressure. Range is bad though. Use it every so often to keep your opponent honest while you're standing.
cl.C: 70 DMG/Sp/DM
For the time being, the main go to when canceling into Saiki's specials. Also a somewhat solid reactionary anti-air, made better by being Special cancelable. However, be very wary. It can miss on some crouchers. If you're trying to confirm into something big, it might be better to go with the more reliable cl.D as it won't miss on crouchers.
far.C: 70 DMG/Sp/DM
One of Saiki's better far standing pokes. Being cancelable makes it all the more better and it's good enough to cancel into HD mode from. It can be a slight bit slow, but it's not a terrible deal. It might miss on some crouchers as well, more testing is needed, but do be a bit cautious with the move. Also, keep noted, Saiki does move forward a bit while performing the move. Now, if he finishes it without canceling into anything, he returns to his previous position. However, if you whiff cancel it during active frames, Saiki stays forward. Not a bad way to sneak up your positioning.
cl.D: 70 DMG/Sp/DM
A very solid move, a hard hitting move from standing that cancels into anything and hits low? Pretty damn nice. Also it does not whiff on crouchers making this a bit more reliable when going in for something big. Be warned however, it has one weakness. Where both versions of st.C are cancelable in which you do not have to worry as much about distance as both will cancel, far.D is NOT cancelable which means if you're off on your distance and you get far.D, you don't get anything afterwards. Be careful about that. Of course, if it's to go into HD mode, you can HD far.D as well so it doesn't matter as much.
far.D: 80 DMG
Very good poke for Saiki. Great range, moves him forward and during active frames you can actually hop over some characters c.Bs which is very very nice indeed. Good poke to use to keep the pressure on. It's not cancelable by anything other than HD mode though, so it's something to keep in mind, however getting that long poke into HD if you can predict your opponent's patterns can be a great tool.
c.A: 25 DMG/Sp/DM
IMPO, not a very good move. Meh range, hits mid, doesn't combo into anything that c.B doesn't. At best it MIGHT be a frame faster starting up than c.B, but I'm not sure of that. But it honestly doesn't really do anything of note that is special. Beating hop-ins is what s.A does and does it better so...yeah...
c.B: 30 DMG/Sp/DM
Very good move. Good range (though deceptive, it does not go as far as his foot does, but it still has good range), and cancelable, and it hits low obviously. However...c.B only can combo into QCB+B and his DPs and QCF+AC. Still solid, but you won't be getting his best stuff off it that often outside of burning meter. However still a great poke to use.
c.C: 70 DMG/Sp/DM
Nice solid move too, mostly used for anti-airs however. It's a bit slow, so it's best saved for either knowing a hop is coming, or reacting to slower jumps. Being cancelable helps apply meaty pressure if you AA-d at the right distance. All in all, not a bad move, but maybe not the go-to one you need, but Saiki's advantage is that he has a lot of normals to do different things, and this has its own niche.
c.D: 80 DMG/Sp/DM
Saiki's sweep, and it's a solid enough sweep. Solid range, and you can cancel into Specials to keep safe. It also moves him forward, but unlike his far.C, he maintains his forward position with or without the cancel so keep that in mind.
st.CD: 75 DMG/Sp/DM
Saiki's Standing Blowback. You probably won't be using this move too much outside of Guard Cancels, it's a decent move though. It's a bit telegraphed however. Best used to whiff cancel forward like far.C since it goes the furthest distance of the three normals.
j.A: 45 DMG/CN
Surprisingly a decent hop in move. A good downward angle and it's cancelable into his air Command Normals giving you a better confirm off of it, but only off of jumps and not hops. Good to use it to mix things up since Saiki has good all around air normals.
j.B: 45 DMG
Probably your best air to air move, and it's still not a terrible way to jump in. Has an amazing horizontal hitbox which, unlike his c.B, goes as far as the foot goes. It can win a lot of air to air battles especially if done early. It can also crossup standing opponents but it's a bit hard to combo after. Be forewarned, this thing does misses on crouchers as Saiki hits the ground before he hits the opponent. This can be bad AND good in a sense. Bad because...well f us, we just missed, but it can be used for tricky high-low setups if your opponent gets antsy and goes to block high late.
j.C: 72 DMG/CN
If I had to pick one, this is probably the worst of Saiki's air normals, but it's not...terrible by any means it's just...it doesn't have the horizontal hitbox like j.B so it won't win as many air to airs, it misses on crouchers and doesn't have the vertical hitbox like j.A so being CN isn't as helpful either. It does do the most damage though outside of his j.CD so...there's an upside...
j.D: 70 DMG
Probably your go to Aerial Normal. It's certainly the best one you have for jumping in. It has a damn good hitbox in both the vertical and horizontal which means jumping in from farther out isn't much of a problem and it can win its share of air to airs (though again, j.B is a lot safer to go with). And it's a solid hop normal too. Only downside is that you can't do it as late as some of his other normals while hopping, which is remedied by...you know, using j.A when you wanna do a hop normal late. All and all, great move.
j.4B/j.6B: 50 DMG
Saiki's only command normals, and they happen to be in the air. They're decent, they do change his trajectory in the air, so say you start your super jump and you see something you don't like, immediately j.4B to hit the brakes. On the other hand, you jump and see you just don't got the distance, use j.6B to give yourself that extra little push. The hitbox isn't great at times, and you can whiff (but unlike j.B, it can hit crouchers because they halt Saiki's momentum before touching the ground so it will stay active) depending on where you are. Also...it has one bad downside. Unlike all his other air normals where you can do a normal immediately after touching the ground, you have some recovery off of these moves and it's not instant, meaning it's a lot more of a pain to combo off of these normals which means you have to hit it deep and low and still hope. It has more use as a movement option.
j.CD: 90 DMG/CN
A very tricky jumping blowback. It's not unlike his standing one in terms of animation, but you're more likely to use this one raw. It has a tricky hitbox which can do some nasty crossups if the opponent isn't careful. It can seem like Saiki's already past you and won't do anything then BOOM, you just got hit by a j.CD and it has this weird vortex where the opponent goes where Saiki was arcing. So if you hit them from behind, they'll go the way you're jumping and right past you. So you can't use this to put people back in the corner if your back is to it but you can get someone coming out of it. It's also CN so that helps a bit as well.
I'll do specials and DMs later, plus I want to see how I'm doing so far.
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Satsui, can I translate this normals writeup to Portuguese?
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Satsui, can I translate this normals writeup to Portuguese?
It's Saitsu, and sure, knock yourself out.
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I'll do specials and DMs later, plus I want to see how I'm doing so far.
Thank you for your contribution! Myself and the others will be looking over this and will we get back to you.
I have also updated Saiki's wiki with some templates for we can start adding info: http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Saiki_%28XIII%29 (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Saiki_%28XIII%29)
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Alright, on to Specials and DM. DM=DM Cancelable MC=Max Cancelable
Kiyoku no Tsuki = (qcf+P) - A Version is a projectile that goes across the screen at a leisurely pace. C Version is a burst projectile at Saiki's head and a bit above.
(EX) = qcf+A+C is two quick multihitting bursts, one hitting low and mid, and the other mid and high, allowing for juggle opportunities afterward
- DM
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 60/70/181 (if all hits land on EX)
Saiki's Fireball and what allows him to dictate the pace of a match. His A version is different than others, in the way that normally characters that have a Fireball have a slow and fast version and whatnot, Saiki only has the A version as the traditional fireball, so it runs at a speed that's inbetween. Slow enough to run behind if done far enough away, but fast enough where it's hard to use for meaty pressure. Still a solid fireball with a very good hitbox. His C version is his anti-air, use it to catch people jumping in too often expecting a fireball. They run into one of these, they stop getting too hoppy. This is also used in a lot of his juggle and HD combos.
The EX version can be comboed from lights and can start a juggle, however it can be a bit of a pain to follow up midscreen. As of now, you won't see it being used too much as his meter is better spent on other avenues.
Hanetsurube no Nata = (dp+k) - Both versions are relatively the same. Both have basic Somersault/Flash Kick animations, the D Version goes a bit farther and has two hits. D Version also has followups.
(EX) = dp+B+D- Seems to have faster startup than the two normal versions and around the same range as the D Version. It also hits multiple times and has followups as well.
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- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 70/78(123)/141(208)
Kazahazushi no Tsuchi = (hold A/B/C/D) during D version or EX-Does a teleport followup that switches positions (unless directly in the corner) and the follow up is either a Blowback, or a barrage depending if you used the D or EX DP.
This is Saiki's DP, and a solid one at that. While it doesn't seem to have the overwhelming invincibility of some other DP's (Kyo's for example), it makes up for it in utility. A successful followup after his D or EX version will switch positions, making it perfect for putting opponents into the corner if they're getting greedy on you. It also has some deceptive range so it does well for putting opponents on guard. When following up, it's best to hold D, for two reasons. One, you're already holding it for your D or EX DP, so it saves time. And two, if you hold in say a punch button, and you do it too early it will end up Drive Canceling into his FBs, which isn't a bad thing when you actually want to, but you don't want to accidently cost yourself 50% Drive for a stupid mistake.
Hiori no Kusabi = (qcb+K) - Both versions have Saiki doing a Donkey Kick (think 3S/MvC3 Ryu). B Version is much faster than D version, but D allows for a teleport afterwards.
(EX) = qcb+B+D - EX version is slightly faster than D it seems, and also causes a Wallbounce along with the same teleports afterwards.
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- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 60/60/120
Ura Shichiri = (hold A/B/C/D) during D version or EX-The Teleport after the kick, the teleport varies based on the button pushed. They end up in the same spots as the raw teleports do, so use that to know which followup does which.
Saiki's Donkey Kick, a relatively decent move. B Version is one of the few things Saiki can actually combo into from his c.Bs making it a quick and easy 2-1 or hitconfirm to push the opponent, however it doesn't do more than that. His D version is nice because it allows for a Teleport however it only combos from his Heavies or certain juggles. Best ones to use are C and D. C is best used midscreen to follow your opponent and nail him with a DP, be forewarned. Depending on the distance you hit the Donkey Kick, you might switch sides with your opponent forcing you to flip your inputs for your DP. Be VERY cautious about that. D Teleport is best in the corner, as you follow your opponent in the air, you can hit him with a j.4B and a followup DP or Super on the ground afterwards.
His EX has most of the same advantages and disadvantages as the D version, except you do not want to use this in the corner unless you like switching positions. Again, I think his meter would be better served on other things like his DMs or his EX DP.
Shichiri Gake = (d, d + A/B/C/D) -
Just Saiki's basic Teleport. Goes 4 positions. A version makes Saiki travel a bit backwards. B Version sends Saiki a bit forward. C Version sends Saiki about a half screen forward. D Version sends Saiki a bit forward and puts him in the air at jump height. Personally...I don't think they're very good. They have a lot of lag time towards them, are a bit telegraphed (even worse off because you can't attack right away out of them) and they're not that invincible. Use VERY sparingly if at all.
Washiba Otoshi = (qcfx2+K) - Saiki does a DP with little horizontal movement and if it connects, follows the opponent for a barrage ending with a stomp
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage:210
Saiki's main go to DM to end his combos if not in general. It starts up pretty quick making it even an effective anti-air. Does solid enough damage and can keynote a lot of combos. It does switch positions so keep that in mind when performing this in the corner. It's also Max Cancelable on the stomp, so go there to bookend your HD combos with authority.
Yami Otoshi = (qcfx2+K) in the air - While Saiki is in the air and performs this, he teleports to the top of the screen and immediately comes straight down with a stomp. If it connects, Saiki teleports down, rubs the opponent's face in the ground with his foot and then gives him a swift kick to the face.
- Hit Detection: Overhead
- Damage: 200
Saiki's air DM, you won't see it that often, and it's not that great. It's an Overhead which is nice, but it's pretty damn telegraphed. It also does less damage than the last DM, and it's more annoying to land. It's also Max Cancelable on the last hit. Best use for it is to finish off an HD combo in the corner if you're not 100% sure that it will kill, that way at the end of it you keep corner position.
Tokoyami no Fune = (qcfx2+P) - Saiki waves his hand twice and releases a Fireball that looks like his A version but hits 13 times, and the further it goes, the slower it becomes before fizzling out at full screen.
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- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 156
This is Saiki's trickiest DM and the one I believe has the most potential. When released, it's on the screen for a while becoming very slow, and whether it hits or is blocked, it does 13 hits. It can screw up opponent's jumping and rolling patterns, and god forbid if it touches them while grounded. If it does, it keeps them there for a while hit or blocked giving you ample time to get in their face. If it hit, you can combo after it, if blocked, you get a safe high/low of your choice. This thing can be very deadly but be careful. Don't do it in your opponent's face, it does not have that much of a hitbox in Saiki's immediate vicinity when released so you'll die...hard. Don't use it too often or your opponent will get wise as well. This thing is also good for juggle combos after mid air DPs so keep it in mind.
Kyoryu no Ori = (hcbx2+P) close - Saiki grabs the opponent and uses his energy to suck out his opponent's and regain vitality
(EX) = hcbx2+A/C - Same thing only more damage, and he drops his opponent harder afterwards
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- Hit Detection: Mid/Close/Grab
- Damage:180/180/300
Saiki's Command Grab DM. Not the greatest on damage, but it helps his options up close and it gives you some vitality back which is pretty sweet. Use it every so often when you find an opening to keep your opponent honest.
Kasumi = qcb~hcfx2+A+C - Saiki transforms into his Boss Form and fills the screen with painful dark energy.
- Hit Detection: Mid
- Damage: 448
Saiki's NeoMax. You're likely not gonna be using this raw but this thing will be on the end of all your HD combos, meter permitting. It can also combo after every single one of his DMs (Most of them Max Canceled, but his FB one has to be juggled) making him a little more versatile within his HD combos.
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KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その３３１ 基本解説講座サイキ編 (Saiki Master Class) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3jepNvAR3E#)
A Japan player messing around with Saiki.