Dream Cancel Forum
Sakazaki Dojo => Training Room => Topic started by: ZeWickedOreo on August 02, 2011, 08:17:51 AM
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These past few weeks I've only been playing against AI opponents cause there isn't a KOF XIII Arcade here inthe philippines. (that's why im so darn excited about the console release so I could PSN)
Just really curious, cause I beat 'em up kinda easily(not bragging) so I'm wondering when I play against real players... ugh... I don't know... Would it be different?
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though im not the best at any fighting game i would say playing against human opponents is probably the best way to improve since its not as easy to read a real person compared to a computer
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That's saaad. I guess I'll just try to improve my basic skills then I'll just improve further when I get it on ps3. PSN all the waaaaaaaay!! Darn sad that there's no KOF13 in arcades here in the Philippines. :|
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There barely any here in U.S.A either just in certain areas mine not being one of them :(
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AI is definitely never the optimal way to train. There are things that AI cannot emulate from human players: particular habits, adaptation, stress/fatigue/emotion, etc. A lot of strategy and things you play off on during a match aren't going to be found against an AI-opponent. It's a pretty big detriment to learning when you can't establish good fundamentals like spacing, conditioning, and mindgames/mixups.
I would dare to say that even training mode would be better than arcade mode. At least there you can test properties without a moving opponent or experiment. Some games will even allow you to record inputs for the dummy so you can test blockstrings or how to punish particular moves or setups. AI is decent for learning how to hitconfirm or just to reinforce your muscle memory with combos (which is better suited for training mode anyway).
One thing to be careful of when playing against the AI is picking up bad habits. As non-adaptive AI, once you figure out a way to overcome them, you may lead yourself into believing that a particular tactic is viable or really works, when, in reality, an adaptive human opponent can easily counteract a particular technique or setup after seeing it a few times or even once. Do note that this doesn't just go for KOF, but any fighting game. Your best bet is always to find a human opponent of equal or greater skill. The AI can't give you feedback on things you need to work on or improve, but a friend or opponent definitely can.
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I agree 100% with Fatacon.
I also think that even training mode is better than CPU.
You need to play againts other people, there is no other way, just like in sports.
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AI is definitely never the optimal way to train. There are things that AI cannot emulate from human players: particular habits, adaptation, stress/fatigue/emotion, etc. A lot of strategy and things you play off on during a match aren't going to be found against an AI-opponent. It's a pretty big detriment to learning when you can't establish good fundamentals like spacing, conditioning, and mindgames/mixups.
I would dare to say that even training mode would be better than arcade mode. At least there you can test properties without a moving opponent or experiment. Some games will even allow you to record inputs for the dummy so you can test blockstrings or how to punish particular moves or setups. AI is decent for learning how to hitconfirm or just to reinforce your muscle memory with combos (which is better suited for training mode anyway).
One thing to be careful of when playing against the AI is picking up bad habits. As non-adaptive AI, once you figure out a way to overcome them, you may lead yourself into believing that a particular tactic is viable or really works, when, in reality, an adaptive human opponent can easily counteract a particular technique or setup after seeing it a few times or even once. Do note that this doesn't just go for KOF, but any fighting game. Your best bet is always to find a human opponent of equal or greater skill. The AI can't give you feedback on things you need to work on or improve, but a friend or opponent definitely can.
Ohhhhhh! Yeah.. just like in tekken.. I guess I just have to wait for the console now I'll prolly study and improve as much characters as again.. damn a lot of people would sure whoop my ass in PSN cause they've already played in an arcade. But that won't bring me down >:)
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Well, truth be told I'm no expert myself, but in certain cases proper use of AI can be an invaluable learning tool. Ideally, you should spend a lot of time in training perfecting your set-ups/combos/whatever. A good secondary step to dealing with real folks could be using the AI of the game if you can't find people (a tragic situation all too common in SNK games, I'm looking at you NGBC). It certainly helps for at least dealing with performing combos on moving/attacking opponents. Of course, your mileage will vary depending on how good the game's AI is but at least you can get some practice performing those combos on something other than a dummy, which makes a world of difference.
In the end real people>AI but AI can be a good intermediate tool when you are starting out and shouldn't be ruled out completely.
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thanks a lot maaan! so far I'm able to perform my combos on very hard ai's... so i think that''s a good thing but the difference should really be big when I play against another person! I'm expecting the worst that's why imma train hardeerrrr! :D GYEAH
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you should just play XII online
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(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h21/HeavensAscension/Gifs/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif) Definitely not start from there to learn the basics
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The AI is only good for hit confirming, and knowing how to break throws on reaction. They are also good for training against certain special moves or supers depending on how often they use them.
As mentioned the record replay (or command record) function is a great tool in training mode because you can reenact certain setups and situations against yourself and try to find ways around them or to get used to experiencing them.
I would say if you have a PC is to use GGPO or Supercade, and play some human opponents in KOF98 or KOF2002 to build a solid and ever flowing metagame, because the CPU isn't going to give you that.
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That's a great idea! I never knew GGPO!! I researched it when I saw your post... whoahhh.. doesn't it lag? :O
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Its all depending on where you are when you are looking for a match up you want someone who is around 60ms to 150ms anything above that LAG is going to be constant. There is also supercade and arclive. I like arclive cause they automatically record your matches and you can save them.
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(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h21/HeavensAscension/Gifs/thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif) Definitely not start from there to learn the basics
i learned my basics from XII and im able to carry myself to other KOF games
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That's a great idea! I never knew GGPO!! I researched it when I saw your post... whoahhh.. doesn't it lag? :O
You should be able to get some decent connections against other players located in Asia, I myself had near lagless matches against people as far as Pakistan and even Hong Kong (I live in Pennsylvania). Seriously give it a whirl, it's great.
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Playing against the A.I. never helps. I remember back in the days of Kaillera and I thought I was good at MVC1 because I could consistently beat Onslaught. I got absolutely butt fucked when playing people online.
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That's a great idea! I never knew GGPO!! I researched it when I saw your post... whoahhh.. doesn't it lag? :O
You should be able to get some decent connections against other players located in Asia, I myself had near lagless matches against people as far as Pakistan and even Hong Kong (I live in Pennsylvania). Seriously give it a whirl, it's great.
Alright!!! that would be of great help to me!!! I'll download it as soon as my other PC get repaired. the power source got fucked up.. :| stupid AVR! When I get better at this game, let's play! :D
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Yeah man one things for sure, fighting human opponents will definitely help increase your yomi and okizeme abilities. The A.I. doesn't necessarily fall for setups or things of that nature. It will only read your inputs, and react to it accordingly. It doesn't even do mixups or things of that nature most of the time. Try to fight an A.I. K' and then fight an actual player who knows K' (they're a dime a dozen online), and you'll see the difference.
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Damnnn.... I'm playing with my lil bro now and he hasn't played as long as I did but I can see the difference in difficulty. I can dooo thiisss!
I got a question tho... what's yomi and okizeme... :/
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Yomi = mind games, strategy, tactics etc
Okizeme = the mixups on a fallen opponent (are you going to hit me low, throw me, cross me up, bait etc)
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ohhh sorryyyy I'm no japanese dude.. Learned something tho!! I'll definitely improve on that when I get to play on with players! :D
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ohhh sorryyyy I'm no japanese dude.. Learned something tho!! I'll definitely improve on that when I get to play on with players! :D
Neither am I :) . Those are just some terms that you may tend to hear/read on different fg forums. I play a heavy amount of Tekken and VF5, and those terms (and others like it) tend to pop up all of the time. I should've explained what they were, so my bad on that :(
Is there anybody in your area other than your brother who play fighting games?
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damnnn son! :))
Nobody else... There's no decent arcade here in our area... I still have to travel for 2 1/2 hours (motorcycle,bus,train,taxi/jeep) which im not able to do cause I'm helping out in managing my sister's condo business while i'm at break, sad really. :|